Replace Control & Simulation plots (Bode/Step/Root Locus) default control with Silver Controls

I just installed the 2013 trial version of LabVIEW and LabVIEW Control Design and Simulation Module. Normally, for control design I only use Matlab/Simulink but LabVIEW does have some advantages and I want to take these advantages. The problem I feel it is annoying is that I cannot use the Silver Controls to replace the default classis style control - like the bode gain and phase margin or root lotus plot below
Solved!
Go to Solution.

Hi muahang,
why not? What's the problem here?
Those plots look like standard XY graphs (maybe with some fancy background graphics for the root locus)...
Best regards,
GerdW
CLAD, using 2009SP1 + LV2011SP1 + LV2014SP1 on WinXP+Win7+cRIO
Kudos are welcome

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Transfer function + controller + Bode plot and root locus

Hi
I am trying to plot Bode plot and root locus for trasfer function
TF = 1/(s^4 + 2s^2)
Then I want to implement Ideal compensators (PI , PD or PID) or lag/lead compensator to get the required stability
I am trying to do this Labview 8.o in control design and simulation loop. (V2.0)
I have done some simulation but I am not understanding as to how implement controller on this.
I need little help.
I am attaching my VI. but you will find rootlocus not there and feed back loop control to implement controllers not there
Thankyou

I have one typical controlers question where I am using feedback control
alongwith compensators. My transfer function is like fourth order
TF = 1/S^2(S^2+2)
but rootlocus and transfer function in labview do not let me write equation more than 3rd order.
How can I write this 4th order equation.
Next I want to make one feedback control on this transfer function and then want to plot bode and rootlocus.
I have made one vi of fourth order by placing transfer function in series and then for feedback gain I have placed another transfer function with feedback. I have also attached rootlocus vi but it does not show me rootlocus since rootlocus Vi can not take more than fourth order transfer function.
I want to plot my step response, bode, and root locus for step input
I have also tried to make another VI with tansfer function VI which has feed back terminal in it, but I donot know how to get bode and rootlocus out of that.
I am attaching my both VIs for you.
see my two Vis please.
Attachments:
Bode_practice.zip ‏156 KB

Cost center master data is loaded with no controlling area

Hi All,
0costcenter masterdata was loaded from different source systems R/3 and flat files, some of the costcenters not having controlling areas it was loaded without controlling areas,
I am showing one example of one costcenter 12345678,when check this costcenter contents its displying like this
controlingarea|costcenter |language|To|Valid from|Businesarea
Blank            | 12345678|Blank|12/31/1999|01/01/1000|
C01              | 12345678|EN|04/01/2005|01/01/1000|
C01              |12345678|EN|12/31/9999|04/02/2005|
this first row showing controlling area is blank and Language is also Blank, with no controlling area which is causing errors after data is being loaded into cubes. user is saying this is duplicate data, please advice what action will I take on this, it is production issue please respond ASAP.
Many thanks in advice.
Thanks,
Kumar.

Kumar,
You said you are getting data from R/3 & Flat files...
In this case probably there could be un assigned comm structure in case of Flat file check Comm/Trans structure...
Cheer's
HVR.

Control & Simulation Loop failed to compile

Dear Forum Members,
I have a problem with a Control & Simulation Loop program (attached) that just doesn't compile & run. I believe that the problem is associated with the 'Feedback Node' at the bottom of this Control & Simulation Frame since if this is taken out the program will run ok.
Can anyone please advise me if this 'Feedback Node' is incorrectly used or in violation of anything. I have tried various ways to overcome the problem i.e. initialising it at the start but nothing works. The error message that I received just says "VI failed to compile".
Appreciate any help with this.

Hello bunnykins,
The Feedback node really isn't a supported function in control design and simulation. The behavior you're reporting, and the work around are both documented in the know issues of the module here:
201449
Return
A Feedback Node on a Simulation Diagram causes the VI to fail to compile
The Feedback Node does not make sense semantically within a Simulation Diagram, due to the fact that most ODE Solvers will execute the diagram multiple times per iteration and may need to reject steps and try again, filling the Feedback Node with bad data.
Workaround: Use the Memory block from the Simulation Utility palette. If a delay of greater than 1 is desired you can chain multiple memory blocks in sequence.
Reported Version: 8.5
Resolved Version: N/A
Added: 07/31/2010
Applications Engineer
National Instruments
CLD Certified

Control Simulation and Design with DAQmx

Hi all, thanks in advance for any helpful direction you can provide.
I was recently setup with Labview 2013 Developer Suite and the Control and Simulation Design add-on and was hoping to get a little nudge in the right direction.
I have used Labview and the NI DAQmx setup for regular external measurements before but never integrated with the Control and Simulation toolbox. I am trying to use the Control and Simulation Toolbox to model a simple system (to start) in conjunction with the DAQmx setup I have, and am somewhat at a loss.
For example, I want to use Labview Control and Simulation to simulate a simple integrator (1/s). The input for the integrator is an external analog voltage (from separate electronics) coming in through the DAQmx setup and the output of the integrator is also and external analog voltage going back to the external electronics. In essence, a very simple control loop.
I have been digging through tutorials and searching for examples, of which there have been many excellent ones. However, I have yet to find an example whereby the control and simulation loop is talking to the outside world through the DAQmx interface. I do not believe the RT module or RT target is necessary for timing as the fastest we are running the loop is around 10Hz. I have found some small examples discussing how the Control and Simulation Toolbox timing can be controlled by the RT target or even the DAQmx but I am still struggling on how to pass data in and out of the loop and how to set the timing parameters. How do you get it to simply run endless, for example.
Again, thanks for any information or direction you can provide.

Hey Cabala,
Based on your description this would be a great starting example.
https://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-11521
Depending on your hardware you may or may not be able to use hardware timed single point for acquisition but you could set it up for continuous as well and use the same structure of 1 read and 1 rate for each cycle of the loop.
You can replace proportional gain function with the CD and Sim Loop and place a Integrator function with in that.
Sorry it appears one of the dependencies for that example is missing so you can't run it off immediately.
Please let us know if you have any other questions.
Kyle Hartley
RIO Product Support Engineer
National Instruments

Simple counter within Control & Simulation Loop

Does anyone know a simple way of creating an incremental counter within the Control & Simulation Loop ? It's not possible to have a For loop within the Control & Simulation Loop hence the shift register method is out.

The "simulation parameters" function on the utilities pallete outputs a "Timestep Index" that is incremented each step. That's the simplest option. Alternatively, you could use a sub VI that executes on major steps and contains a for loop.

Cascade control simulation

Dear Sirs
I am interested in developing a cascade control simulation in LabVIEW 8.2 using LabVIEW Simulation Module. I have developed a program that I have sent you. Do you tell me if the program is good implemented?. How I should tune the primary and secundary loops?(I don`t know how should be the conections in order to tune each loop). Excercises could be great!.
Adittional data
Process transfer function is determinated usig Step Test
Controller parameters are obteined using Ziegler Nichols Method
Best Regards
Attachments:
control en cascada.vi ‏638 KB

Hi Pablo,
I'm sorry for attached 8.6. Follow attached the VI saved for version 8.2, and about reference Control Systems Engineering, by Norman S. Nise Cap. 9. Another interesting reference, but I think it is not exactly you are finding is Modern Control Engineering, by Katsuhiko Ogata Section 10.5.
Happy new year!
Regards,
Message Edited by Osvaldo Santos on 12-29-2008 09:48 AM
Osvaldo Santos
Attachments:
Filtered Noise.zip ‏30 KB
Block Diagram.GIF ‏15 KB

PID root locus

I have open loop function 31.75/(s^3+3*s^2+1.25s) I am trying to design PID controller for this using given percentage overshoot n settling time. I m using root locus graphical technique to do it. I have design PD controller and PI controller separatleti I want to know how can i desing PID controller andits transfrom function .I also want to know how can i determine the PId compensator gain.Please provide any related information as i m new in it.
Dost

Hi
Thanks for reply.well for the time being using LAbview or matlab is not an issue infact I am desinging P dcontroller and calcualting the parameter of Kd and Kp.open loop transfer function for my problem is : 31.75/s(s+2.5)(s+0.5) .
you can see there is an integrator in the open loop and theortically it should nt give any steady state error the close loop function obtained from this openloop with feedback is:
5.286
---------------------------- the step respons of the close loop function shows a unbounded system ;any comments on it????? should we include 31.75 the numerator of the open l
s^3 + 3 s^2 + 1.25 s + 31.72
loop in the calcualtion of the close loop?
i developed aPD compensator using graphical root locus techniques using the following time doima specification overshoot 10% settling time 10 secod.the desired pole from this specification is -2.-+2,76i which gives from gemoetry the position of the required zero as -1.24 using this zero does not give the required specification so i used z=-.3 (any comments on it)I am also perplexed about the calculation of the Kd :from graphical root locus methos i have used following formula
Kd= product of vector lenght of finte pole to desire pole/(productor of vector length of zero to desired pole * 31.75)
the obtained PD compensator is :
0.2866 s + 0.08599 and coreesponding open loop P Dcompensator is :
9.09 s + 2.727
s^3 + 3 s^2 + 1.25 s
the close loop is obtained as
1.515 s + 0.4545
s^3 + 3 s^2 + 10.34 s + 2.727
this gives settling time 3 second overshoot is 16 % but steady state is .167 i.e about 99 % steady state error.
Looking forrwad for ur reply.
Dost

Recently had to purchase a replacement phone a friend of mine had backed up the data on the lost phone to his Mac laptop how do I get that backed up data from the lost iPhone that's on his Mac laptop to my new replacement phone? Please give step by step

recently had to purchase a replacement phone a friend of mine had backed up the data on the lost phone to his Mac laptop how do I get that backed up data from the lost iPhone that's on his Mac laptop to my new replacement phone? Please give step by step instructions xoxoxo
And my iTunes sign in is also screwed up... It is underneath my friends email (the one with my backed up data on his Mac laptop) HOW DO I CHANGE THIS SO THAT I CAN DOWNLOAD APP's again...

I suspect unless he had some items in iCloud backup then they are gone. Connecting an iPhone to a different library from that to which it was previously connected will result in the device asking if you want to erase it.

Whats a good mac to use for a home flight simulator with flight controls and foot pedals?

whats a good mac to use for a home flight simulator with flight controls and foot pedals?
My old 6100 AV worked great on A10 ATTACK, back in 1993.
whats a good set up now a days?
I havent seen any MAC set ups as a lot of the after market accessories are on Windows platform.
Is there a way or should I get a dedicated simulator on PC?

The fact that USB flight input devices appear to Windows only is not a limitation; for Mac most are programmed through the sim itself. I know X-Plane does that.
I've simmed a lot and know that good sims need a lot of processor and video hardware horsepower, and you'll also need a lot of RAM. They also run up the internal temps. A Mac Pro has better cooling than an iMac. You can get a program like SMCFanControl to manually set up the fans speeds before starting the sim.
I know of no sims today that will still run on a PowerPC Mac (2005 and earlier) so you need to look to an Intel Mac with top specs. If looking at iMacs, start by looking for the quad-core i7 processor. Those models usually came with an up-rated video card. Thing 12 to 16GB RAM.
My 2010 iMac has the 2.93gHz i7 processor, video hardware (ATI 5750) with 1TB VRAM, and 12 GB of RAM. It runs the x-Plane 10 demo fine but I've not bought the full version because v10 seems to make foot pedals darned near mandatory, and I don't want $100 worth of pedals under my regular work desk at the moment.

Fetch records from ETL Load control tables in BODS

Hi,
Please anyone tell me, how to fetch the records from the ETL Load control tables in BODS.
(E.g) ETL_BATCH, ETL_JOB, ETL_DATAFLOW, ETL_RECON, ETL_ERROR.
These are some ETL load tables..
Thanks,
Ragrds,
Ranjith.

Hi Ranjith,
You can ask your administrator for BODS repository login details.
Once you get login details you will get all the tables.
Please check following links :
Data Services Metadata Query Part 1
http://www.dwbiconcepts.com/etl/23-etl-bods/171-data-services-metadata-query-part-2.html
http://www.dwbiconcepts.com/etl/23-etl-bods/171-data-services-metadata-query-part-3.html
I hope this will help.
If you want more info then please let me know.
Thanks,
Swapnil

Process Control Simulator

I would like to build Process Control Simulator Virtual for my University. I know LABVIEW has an example PID Control Level, In these example I see the level is moving (going up and going down ) I want to do some similar with feedback control, feedfoward control and cascada PID control, I mean level going up an going down, parametres Kp, Ti and Td, Graphips (manipulated variable vs. controlled variable), Controller in manual mode and automatic mode. I´ve read that I can do that with LABVIEW SIMULATOR MODULE but I don´t have experiencee using LABVIEW. I have Transfers Functions but I don´t know how begin. I will show you the first project I want to do.
Thanks for all you support you are going to give me
Best Regards
Tomas Cabrera
Venezuela
email: [email protected]
Attachments:
Virtual Process Control Simulator.jpg ‏27 KB

Hola Thomas,
I also want to let you know that the simulation you are trying to do would be much easier if you have the Simulation Module and the Control Design Toolkit. They are add-on to LabVIEW that allow you to do transfer functions and continuous simulation easily. For more information, you can try:
http://www.ni.com/labview/embeddedcontrol/simulation.htm
Please let me know if we can help you more to understand those products.
Barp - Control and Simulation Group - LabVIEW R&D - National Instruments

Toolkit for feedback system? Motion; PID; Control/Simulation???

Hi, I have to develop/program an organ bath system - a feedback system mimicking real sinusoidal breathing oscillations (shown in attached images). I have NI Labview 8.5, NI-Motion 7.6, a linear motor (M-235 DC-Mike actuator), an MID-7654 Servo Power Motor Drive and a pressure transducer. I believe I will need to control the PID controller and am aware of the PID Control Toolkit as well as the Control Design and Simulation Toolkit for NI Labview. However, is it possible to control the system using the NI-Motion software I have at the moment? If not, do I have to purchase both the PID and Control/Simulation Toolkit or just one? Thanks in advance...
Attachments:
feedback design1.JPG ‏25 KB
feedback system1.JPG ‏42 KB

Dear Garry,
Do you have a motion controller to interface the MID-7654 to your
computer and LabVIEW? This would be the PCI-734x or PCI-735x. If you
do, I believe that you could implement your application with LabVIEW
and NI-Motion. You could do so by using the analog feedback feature for
the control loops for each axis. Then, you could specify the optimal
sinusoidal moves/pressure patterns that mimic real breathing patterns.
The analog feedback from your pressure transducer will be used during
the move(s) to maintain the pressure that you want.
Please see Chapter 13 here for more details:
NI-Motion User Manual
http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/371242c.pdf
Here is also a good discussion forum post on Analog feedback:
Can i use NI-7358 to implement a hybrid position force/torque control system?
http://forums.ni.com/ni/board/message?board.id=240&thread.id=2976&view=by_date_ascending&page=1
I believe that the above option would work for you, and you would not
have to use the Control Design and Simulation Module or the PID
Toolkit. Please let me know if you have any additional questions. I
haven't actually set up a system with analog feedback from a pressure
transducer before, but I believe that the above would be a very viable
option.
Best Regards,
~Nate

Extract Signal Tone Information in Control & Simulation Loop

Hi,
I have a simple Block Diagram to try Control & Simulation Loop. I added a Sine Wave signal and a Waveform Chart connected to it. They work just fine.
I tried to add a Extract Single Tone Information , from Signal Processing, and connect it to the output of the Sine Wave generator but I do not know how to create a proper Time Signal.
I thought of storing the output of the Sine Wave in an array but I was unsuccessful since I could not add any shift register to this type of control loops.
Any help or suggestions?
Thanks
Attachments:
Control_n_Sim_Test.PNG ‏9 KB

Hi Siamak,
Thanks for your reply mate.
However, when I built a same BD as you posted on, it somehow didn't work. I also attached a photo of my BD here. I used the gauge to measure when I run the programme. The gauge shows there is no signal output after the "collector"VI (gauge no.13). would you please check it for me? Many thanks!
BR
Floyd
Attachments:
tone info extraction.png ‏134 KB

Control a m061-fd02 step motor with labview

i am trying to control a m061-fd02 step motor via cdaq 9178,and i dont really know how to begin,can some one help me

Thank you both for posting on NI Discussion Forums. It looks like you are close to finding an answer to your questions. Also, our engineers at National Instruments would be glad to help you find the products that you need to meet your applications needs. We are here to help.
I believe that this post should have been made in the Motion Control board rather than the LabVIEW board. These forums are moderated by NI engineers. By posting in the correct board, the posts are routed to the correct engineering teams so that we can assist you all more efficiently.
Applications Engineer
National Instruments

Replace Control & Simulation plots (Bode/Step/Root Locus) default control with Silver Controls

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