Roaming Between AP Groups?

We have a site where we're running 7.6.110 WLC code with a mix of APs from 1242s to 3700s. Globally all data rates, including 1 Mbps, are enabled, and we have a number of SSIDs. No bueno.
To help with channel utilization, we created (as per TAC's guidance) an AP group and RF profile that disabled some of the low rates, then placed some APs into said group. The SSIDs and interfaces are the same between all the AP groups, so there's never any inter-controller or L3 roaming.
Unfortunately it appears that if a 7925g hears an AP in the group and another AP in the default group with different rate sets, it fails to associate properly to either. Visibly the wireless symbol goes all the way to crossed out, and in the neighbor list you can tell that it's cycling through channels fruitlessly. Controller debugs show association failure due to rates, code 18. TAC now says that all APs that can hear each other must have the same data rate settings (i.e. all APs between which one might ever roam must be in the same RF profile.)
Is there any documentation or guidance about this? Is it the mandatory rates that are the issue, or does any mismatch cause this? Is there any way to restrict the low data rates of some APs in denser areas while leaving the same rates enabled in less dense areas and still have roaming with 7925s?

A capture would be nice, we might see about trying to get one. The problem partially is knowing which AP the phone is trying to associate to. We've seen it be well within range of half a dozen APs, and fail to associate to any of them for 15-30 seconds, then associate to one at -71 dBm when there's a -40 dBm one available.
The Beacon Interval for most APs in the 7925g site survey is listed as 100ms, but for some it's 102ms; the phone specifically points this out as being "not recommended." I've been told that this is in fact expected behavior and not a problem.
7.6.130.0 suggest a FUS upgrade from what we have and won't pre-load with 1242s, so that upgrade is going to be a bit more challenging.
This is what we saw from the client debug on the WLC:
*apfMsConnTask_1: Oct 27 13:11:07.126: 44:2b:03:55:xx:xx STA - rates (0): 140 18 24 36 48 72 96 108 108 72 96 108 0 0 0 0
*apfMsConnTask_1: Oct 27 13:11:07.126: 44:2b:03:55:xx:xx suppRates statusCode is 18 and gotSuppRatesElement is 0
*apfMsConnTask_1: Oct 27 13:11:07.126: 44:2b:03:55:xx:xx STA - rates (4): 152 48 96 108 48 72 96 108 108 72 96 108 0 0 0 0
*apfMsConnTask_1: Oct 27 13:11:07.126: 44:2b:03:55:xx:xx extSuppRates statusCode is 18 and gotExtSuppRatesElement is 0
*apfMsConnTask_1: Oct 27 13:11:07.126: 44:2b:03:55:xx:xx Sending Assoc Response to station on BSSID 44:ad:d9:61:78:25 (status denied rates) ApVapId 6 Slot 0
*apfMsConnTask_1: Oct 27 13:11:07.126: 44:2b:03:55:xx:xx Scheduling deletion of Mobile Station: (callerId: 84) in 1 seconds

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Roaming between Flexconnect groups for scaling

I have a customer that needs flexconnect at each of his 10 locations to access local servers and printers. The customer has a pair of 5508 WLCs running 7.6.130.0.
While the customer currently has 25 and under AP count per site, they are considering an expansion to 50 - 60 per site.
We are considering the mobility agent on 3650/3850/4500 switches, but the multi-hop restriction will drive the cost too high.
What is the downside for defining multiple flexconnect groups per site?
The customer is also considering Unified Communications. For example, would the voice RTP stream on a wireless IP phone roaming between APs on different flexconnect groups appear to be seamless?

If you plan on utilizing any real-time applications such as voice, you would not want these devices to be roaming between FlexConnect Groups. There will be a full re-authentication of the client; with the exception of OKC capable machines, which "may" roam more cleanly. This means some standard data clients may perform a fast roam, or at least not notice much of a hiccup even with a full re-auth.
In either scenario, you would want to make sure this is NOT a L3 mobility roam (ie. FlexConnect WLAN/VLAN mapping to different networks). This will cause major problems for all your clients as they will most likely end up talking on the new VLAN with their old IP address.
Mobility / Roaming Scenarios
WLAN Configuration
Local Switching
Central Switching
CCKM
PMK (OKC)
Others
CCKM
PMK (OKC)
Others
Mobility Between Same Flex Group
Fast Roam(1)
Fast Roam(1)
Full Auth(1)
Fast Roam
Fast Roam
Full Auth
Mobility Between Different Flex Group
Full Auth(1)
Fast Roam(1)
Full Auth(1)
Full Auth
Fast Roam
Full Auth
Inter Controller Mobility
N/A
N/A
N/A
Full Auth
Fast Roam
Full Auth
(1) Provided WLAN is mapped to the same VLAN (same subnet).

Roaming between 1231A and 1142N

Gday Everyone,
Just would like to know your experience in roaming between LWAPP converted 1231A and 1142N APs?

Inter-Release Controller Mobility (IRCM)
Table 10 lists the inter-release Controller Mobility (IRCM) compatibility matrix.
Table 10 Inter-Release Controller Mobility Compatibility Matrix
CUWN Service
4.2.x.x
5.0.x.x
5.1.x.x
6.0.x.x
7.0.x.x
7.2.x.x
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X
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X
X
-1
Management Frame Protection (MFP)
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X
X
X
X
AP Failover
X
X
X
X
X
1 In the 7.2.x.x release, RF Groups and Profiles were introduced. RRM for 7.2.x.x and later releases is not compatible with RRM for any previous release.
"Satisfaction does not come from knowing the solution, it comes from knowing why." - Rosalind Franklin

7920 roaming between two WLCs

hi,
- i have two WLCs 4404 and 4402 in the same mobility group and all connections seem to be ok.
- one ssid for voip.
- two 7920 phones
when i roam between the WLCs i will lose the connection.
What should i configure on the WLC??
thx

Are you doing L3 mobility?
If so, would configure the voice ssid for the same VLAN on both controllers to see if that works or not.
Of course for mobility group setup, need the mac and IP configured on each contoller in that mobility group.
Ensure that 3.02 is loaded on the 7920 phones.
Would recommend 4.0.217.0 or later for the controller version.
Refer to WLAN SRND for more info.
http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/solution/emblty30.pdf

Difference between AP groups and HREAP or flexconnect

Hi Experts ,
Can anyone please tell me the difference between AP groups and HREAP functionality?
Is the AP group for within one office location ? and Hreap is over WAN?
Regards,
Vijay.

AP groups and H-REAP/FlexConnect are used differently. AP Groups define what SSID's and WLAN to VLAN mapping (local mode) that ap's in the group will have. H-REAP/FlexConnect group is only used when the ap's are in this mode and you define ap's that are close together in that group for fast roaming if using 802.1x. If your only using pre-shared key or non-802.1x, then you really don't need to use H-REAP/FlexConnect groups. You can have ap's in both ap groups or h-reap/flexconnect groups, that is why you need to understand what each does.
FlexConnect Grups:
http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/wireless/controller/7-4/configuration/guides/consolidated/b_cg74_CONSOLIDATED/b_cg74_CONSOLIDATED_chapter_010001111.html
AP Groups:
http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/wireless/controller/7-4/configuration/guides/consolidated/b_cg74_CONSOLIDATED/b_cg74_CONSOLIDATED_chapter_01011111.html
Scott

What is difference between user group and reference user group?

hi
guys,
what is difference between user group and reference user group?
your regards
p.suresh

Hi ,
Chk the link below for your clarifiacation.
http://help.sap.com/erp2005_ehp_03/helpdata/EN/5c/c1c81c445f11d189f00000e81ddfac/frameset.htm
Hope it helps.
Regards,
Amit
Edited by: Amit Kotwani on Sep 2, 2008 2:15 PM

How to improve client handover and roaming between AP's

Improving client Handover and roaming between APs
There are a few standards and methodologies available to use to improve handover of clients between APs. Most are focused on VOIP technologies, but it must always be remembered that we cannot control the client Handover (especially with legacy clients) we can only encourage them. Some Standards and methods work well for some environments and some do not - test the recommendations extensively before implementing in a live Production environment. It must also be noted that all settings take effect immediately once applied, however from a client perspective it might need to re-associate for the changes to take effect client side.
As with everything else in IT, if a perfect method/solution existed there would only be one - try them all and keep the best.
The Standards and Definitions
802.11k
IEEE 802.11k allows a device to quickly identify nearby APs that are available for roaming. When the signal strength of the current AP weakens and the device needs to roam to a new AP, it will already know the best candidate AP with which to connect to.
802.11r
IEEE 802.11r specifies fast Basic Service Set (BSS) transitions between access points by redefining the security key negotiation protocol, allowing both the negotiation and requests for wireless resources to occur in parallel.
When a device roams from one AP to another on the same network, 802.11r streamlines the authentication process. BSS allows a devices to associate with APs more quickly. Coupled with 802.11k's ability to quickly identify the target AP, BSS's faster association method may enhance application performance.
Handoff Assist
The AP monitors the RSSI for every associated client. If the RSSI for a specific client falls below "low-rssi-threshold" and continues to fall for the "rssi-falloff-wait-time", then the AP will send a de-auth to the client.
The de-auth is meant to kick the client away from the current AP and get it to re-authenticate to a nearby AP. This will have the effect of helping a client handover between 2 APs.
BUT (Big But), if the client gets de-authed and takes a while to re-authenticate (if it even does re-authenticate automatically after a de-auth), then this will have the effect of destroying communication instead of helping it -- mostly found with legacy clients.
Remove Lower Transmit Rates
Removing lower transmit rates is a way to promote better roaming, BUT not all clients respond well, or even respond to it.
The practice is that the basic rates are a subset of the transmit rates. If you only want to allow speeds 9 and up, you would select only the transmit rates of 9 and up, and the basic rates of 9 and 11. If a legacy client expects the rates of 1 and 2 it will not connect.
Local Probe Threshold
Local probe Threshold prevents a client from connecting to an AP with a too low a signal - helps more with initial connection than roaming.
The local probe threshold parameter is not supposed to force clients to roam as soon as they pass near an access point with a good signal, but rather to NOT hold on to an access point with a weak signal (avoiding sticky clients).
PMK Caching
Defined by 802.11i and is a technique available for authentication between a single AP and a station. If a station has authenticated to an AP, roams away from that AP, and comes back, it does not need to perform a full authentication exchange. Only the 802.11i 4-way handshake is performed to establish transient encryption keys.
Opportunistic Key Caching (OKC)
Is a similar technique to PMK, but not defined by 802.11i, for authentication between multiple APs in a network where those APs are under common administrative control. An Aruba deployment with multiple APs under the control of a single controller is one such example. Using OKC, a station roaming to any AP in the network will not have to complete a full authentication exchange, but will instead just perform the 4-way handshake to establish transient encryption keys
Implementation and Configuration
802.11k
802.11k is configured in your VAP profile. Tick the option to “Advertise 802.11k”. There after set the Handover Trigger Feature Settings.
Tick the “Enable Handover Trigger feature” and then set RSSI threshold by specifying the -dBm level at what the hand over trigger should be sent to the client
802.11r
802.11r is configured under SSID of your VAP profile. Tick the option to “Advertise 802.11r”
HandofF Assist
Station Handoff Assist is enabled in RF Optimization under the RF Management section of AP configuration.
Tick the “Station Handoff Assist” option to enable it, next set the Low RSSI Threshold – the threshold determines above what level no deauth gets sent
Lower Transmit Rates
Transmit rates can be adjusted in the Advanced tab of SSID under your VAP profile.
Remember that the basic rates are a subset of the transmit rates. If you only want to allow speeds 9 and up, you would select only the transmit rates of 9 and up, and the basic rates of 9 and 11
Local Probe threshold
Local Probe threshold can be adjusted in the advanced tab of SSID under your VAP profile.
Depending on the density of your APs consider values between 20 and 40 -- 40 being aggressive in an AP dense area.
Deny Broadcast Probes
Denying Broadcast Probes can cause problems with Roaming especially if the SSID is hidden – leave option disabled.

Hi, thank you for the helpful guidance. I have a basic question, if the device roam from one AP to another AP with the same SSID. Is there a need of re-authentication given a) the network uses EAP based authentication; b) the network uses MAC address authentication. If there is no need of EAP re-authentication, how the 802.11 keys are moved to the new AP. Thank you very much if you could help me clarify my thought.

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Hi,
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Yolanda Zhu
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Can wireless clients roam seamlessly between 802.11a and 802.11g APs? they will be using the same SSID.
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Roaming between E3000 wireless router and WAP300N

Hi all
The Linksys router I’ve got in my office room at home is providing poor coverage in my living room. Thus I’ve purchased a WAP300N and connected it by wire to the build-in 4 port switch of my Router (E3000). The set-up is providing a significant improvement in the living room, but… it seems as if the two wireless access points are “competing” over the “clients”.
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vonRasmussen :
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Roaming Between AP Groups?

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