Single stack vs. Dual Stack - Why does SAP recommend single stack?
Hello SAP,
I am a business partner who specializes in infrastructure consulting for SAP solutions. The SAP Consultants I am working with recently have been recommending that customers install single stack systems. I would like to know why? Are there problems with dual stack systems? Is SAP changing things in a later release and they want customers to be prepared for the change?
From an infrastucture point of view this recommendation combined with SAP NetWeaver architecture will result in an explosion of SID names which leads to an explosion of application server instances and DBMS instances and an explosion of installed servers. I know it is possible to combine SIDs into a single DBMS using MCOD and to have multiple application servers in a single physical server, but there are issues with mulitple application server instances and MCOD use which make normal maintenance operations difficult.
I think it would be much better for customers to install dual stack systems and simply adjust the SAP profile parameters to disable one stack or the other. This way, you could still have 1 stack per application server instance and you would not be have to be creative with SAP SID names!!! Creating a DBMS instance or installing an additional server is not a simple nor economical proposition.
Regards,
Zaz
I am a business partner who specializes in infrastructure consulting for SAP solutions. The SAP Consultants I am working with recently have been recommending that customers install single stack systems. I would like to know why? Are there problems with dual stack systems?
The problems are:
- difficult to size and maintain - Java + ABAP will fight for resources (memory,CPU) and there´s not much one can do to tune if either ABAP or Java as dual stack instance on a single box is running nuts (for whatever reason).
- System copies via R3load - if you want to copy a huge system (let´s say ERP 6.0 + Java stack) you need to use sapinst + R3load to do the copy. Imagine if the system is 1 TB or bigger, this is very time consuming
- Upgrades are complicated - if you upgrade a dual stack system you need to run two PREPARES and two upgrades at the same time - there are sync points each upgrade wait for the other to finish --> difficult to plan in sense of runtimes and even more notes/preparation to do (a dual stack SolMan upgrade from 3.2 to 4.0 had almost 100 notes (technical!) and two upgrade preparation guides...)
- interdependencies - example: you run ERP + EP + BI-Java on one system. You upgrade your BI (which is on a different box) to a new support package. Since the BI-Java need to be in sync with the BI ABAP support package you need to upgrade the EP too - and since there´s a direct dependency (doublestack system) you will need to install support packages on your ERP. So you finally end up in having dependency chains that a total different system (BI) will force you to upgrade/patch your ERP. And if you have e. g. a CRM connected to the same EP you will need to patch that too...
Is SAP changing things in a later release and they want customers to be prepared for the change?
No - the possibility of having a dual stack installation will be still there.
From an infrastucture point of view this recommendation combined with SAP NetWeaver architecture will result in an explosion of SID names which leads to an explosion of application server instances and DBMS instances and an explosion of installed servers. I know it is possible to combine SIDs into a single DBMS using MCOD and to have multiple application servers in a single physical server, but there are issues with mulitple application server instances and MCOD use which make normal maintenance operations difficult.
I agree - MCOD is not a good solution for this problem.
I think it would be much better for customers to install dual stack systems and simply adjust the SAP profile parameters to disable one stack or the other. This way, you could still have 1 stack per application server instance and you would not be have to be creative with SAP SID names!!! Creating a DBMS instance or installing an additional server is not a simple nor economical proposition.
There are 36 * 36 * 36 (minus a few reserved) names for SIDs- this should be enough - also for the biggest customers
Of course one could install both and disable the one you don´t need - but this won´t help in dependency thing. If you e. g. install a dual stack instance for CRM and disable the Java part, you can nicely run it. In case of an upgrade, you will need to upgrade the Java part too (see above) although you don´t use it. The upgrade will detect the doublestack and wait for the java instance to be upgraded too. Same is true vice versa. And believe me: you don´t want that
In fact it is better to separate - that´s at least our experience. The main no-go for such a configuration on our side was the dependency thing. Since they are there and you can´t do much about them we decided to have a 1:1 relationship for ABAP backend and Java "frontend". You will get more instances (and names and databases) but you can patch applications independently from each other. So an implementation of a BI patch won´t imply that you finally also patch your ERP production and other systems that connect to that portal.
There are virtualization techniques available to not need more boxes, you can consolidate them on one machine as if you were installing a dual stack so that is not really an issue. This depends, of course, on the platform and database you use (e. g. Oracle does not support production installations in VMWare). We use for our Java instances Solaris on Opteron (or Intel 64bit) and zones/containers and for the ABAP part we use Linux + Xen. Both virtualization methods come with the OS (so no additional $$$) and both are supported by SAP.
The propagated advantage of having a dual stack installation (shared memory access etc.) is so small that it doesn´t outban the additional complexity - which is definitely there.
I hope those arguments will help to understand SAPs (and the consultants) position - get back if you want more
Markus
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==============================
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Then I created a query to be outer joined to the report (report contains a row for every group).
I want to achieve a full scan of the index.
select
case state -- 1st expression
when 0 then grp_id
when 1 then grp_id
when 2 then grp_id
when 3 then grp_id
when 4 then grp_id
end grp_id,
min(case state --second expression
when 0 then some_date
when 1 then some_date
when 2 then some_date
when 3 then some_date
when 4 then some_date
end) as mintime
from t
where
case state --1st expression: at least one index column has to be not null
when 0 then grp_id
when 1 then grp_id
when 2 then grp_id
when 3 then grp_id
when 4 then grp_id
end is not null
group by
case state --1st expression
when 0 then grp_id
when 1 then grp_id
when 2 then grp_id
when 3 then grp_id
when 4 then grp_id
end;-------------
Doc's snippet:
13.5.3.6 Full Scans
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At least one of the index columns is not null.
A full scan can be used to eliminate a sort operation, because the data is ordered by the index key. It reads the blocks singly.
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Fast full index scans are an alternative to a full table scan when the index contains all the columns that are needed for the query, and at least one column in the index key has the NOT NULL constraint. A fast full scan accesses the data in the index itself, without accessing the table. It cannot be used to eliminate a sort operation, because the data is not ordered by the index key. It reads the entire index using multiblock reads, unlike a full index scan, and can be parallelized.
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A fast full scan is faster than a normal full index scan in that it can use multiblock I/O and can be parallelized just like a table scan.
So the question is: Why does oracle do a full table scan?
Everything needed is in the index and one expression is not null, but index (fast) full scan is not even considered by CBO (I did a 10053 trace)
| Id | Operation | Name | Starts | E-Rows | A-Rows | A-Time | Buffers |
| 1 | HASH GROUP BY | | 1 | 85 | 20 |00:00:00.11 | 3841 |
|* 2 | TABLE ACCESS FULL| T | 1 | 6100 | 2000 |00:00:00.10 | 3841 |
Predicate Information (identified by operation id):
2 - filter(CASE "STATE" WHEN 0 THEN "GRP_ID" WHEN 1 THEN "GRP_ID" WHEN 2
THEN "GRP_ID" WHEN 3 THEN "GRP_ID" WHEN 4 THEN "GRP_ID" END IS NOT NULL)Let's try some minimalistic examples. Firstly with no FBI.
create index idx_grp_id on t(grp_id);
select grp_id,
min(grp_id) min
from t
where grp_id is not null
group by grp_id;
| Id | Operation | Name | Starts | E-Rows | A-Rows | A-Time | Buffers | Reads |
| 1 | HASH GROUP BY | | 1 | 20 | 20 |00:00:01.00 | 244 | 237 |
|* 2 | INDEX FAST FULL SCAN| IDX_GRP_ID | 1 | 122K| 122K|00:00:00.54 | 244 | 237 |
Predicate Information (identified by operation id):
2 - filter("GRP_ID" IS NOT NULL)This kind of output I was expected to see with FBI. Index FFS was used although grp_id has no NOT NULL constraint.
Let's try a simple FBI.
create index fidx_grp_id on t(trunc(grp_id));
select trunc(grp_id),
min(trunc(grp_id)) min
from t
where trunc(grp_id) is not null
group by trunc(grp_id);
| Id | Operation | Name | Starts | E-Rows | A-Rows | A-Time | Buffers |
| 1 | HASH GROUP BY | | 1 | 20 | 20 |00:00:00.94 | 3841 |
|* 2 | TABLE ACCESS FULL| T | 1 | 6100 | 122K|00:00:00.49 | 3841 |
Predicate Information (identified by operation id):
2 - filter(TRUNC("GRP_ID") IS NOT NULL)Again, index (fast) full scan not even considered by CBO.
I tried:
alter table t modify grp_id not null;
alter table t add constraint trunc_not_null check (trunc(grp_id) is not null);I even tried to set table hidden column (SYS_NC00008$) to NOT NULL
It has no effect, FTS is still used..
Let's try another query:
select distinct trunc(grp_id)
from t
where trunc(grp_id) is not null
| Id | Operation | Name | Starts | E-Rows | A-Rows | A-Time | Buffers |
| 1 | HASH UNIQUE | | 1 | 20 | 20 |00:00:00.85 | 244 |
|* 2 | INDEX FAST FULL SCAN| FIDX_GRP_ID | 1 | 122K| 122K|00:00:00.49 | 244 |
Predicate Information (identified by operation id):
2 - filter("T"."SYS_NC00008$" IS NOT NULL)Here the index FFS is used..
Let's try one more query, very similar to the above query:
select trunc(grp_id)
from t
where trunc(grp_id) is not null
group by trunc(grp_id)
| Id | Operation | Name | Starts | E-Rows | A-Rows | A-Time | Buffers |
| 1 | HASH GROUP BY | | 1 | 20 | 20 |00:00:00.86 | 3841 |
|* 2 | TABLE ACCESS FULL| T | 1 | 122K| 122K|00:00:00.49 | 3841 |
Predicate Information (identified by operation id):
2 - filter(TRUNC("GRP_ID") IS NOT NULL)And again no index full scan..
So my next question is:
What are the restrictions which prevent index (fast) fullscan to be used in these scenarios?
Thank you very much for your answers.
Edited by: user1175494 on 16.11.2010 15:23
Edited by: user1175494 on 16.11.2010 15:25I'll start off with the caveat that i'm no Johnathan Lewis so hopefully someone will be able to come along and give you a more coherent explanation than i'm going to attempt here.
It looks like the application of the MIN function against the case statement is confusing the optimizer and disallowing the usage of your FBI. I tested this against my 11.2.0.1 instance and your query chooses the fast full scan without being nudged in the right direction.
That being said, i was able to get this to use a fast full scan on my 10 instance, but i had to jiggle the wires a bit. I modified your original query slightly, just to make it easier to do my fiddling.
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case state -- 1st expression
when 0 then grp_id
when 1 then grp_id
when 2 then grp_id
when 3 then grp_id
when 4 then grp_id
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when 2 then some_date
when 3 then some_date
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when 2 then grp_id
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when 2 then some_date
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when 4 then some_date
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modified version where we prevent the MIN function from being applied too early, by using ROWNUM
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select
case state -- 1st expression
when 0 then grp_id
when 1 then grp_id
when 2 then grp_id
when 3 then grp_id
when 4 then grp_id
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when 1 then some_date
when 2 then some_date
when 3 then some_date
when 4 then some_date
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case state --1st expression: at least one index column has to be not null
when 0 then grp_id
when 1 then grp_id
when 2 then grp_id
when 3 then grp_id
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case state --second expression
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when 1 then some_date
when 2 then some_date
when 3 then some_date
when 4 then some_date
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and rownum > 0
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| 1 | HASH GROUP BY | | 2 | 20 | 40 |00:00:00.01 | 18 |
| 2 | VIEW | | 2 | 33 | 4000 |00:00:00.07 | 18 |
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0x7ef4f888 : 0x12b4c6 (0x45f91c 0x7ef4f8bc 0x13355c 0x0)
0x7ef4f8d8 : 0x143764 (0x4614d8 0x460150 0x4c20a 0x3)
0x7ef4f978 : 0x12fdc2 (0x26f045c 0x1 0x3df2d040 0x12ffb7)
0x7ef4f9a8 : 0x1304e9 (0xd3c 0x1 0x7ef4f9d8 0x8c)
0x7ef4f9d8 : 0x97e2436d (0xd3c 0xaa99a80 0x7ef4fa18 0x12fdc2)
0x7ef4fa08 : 0x97e277b3 (0x1 0xd38 0x7ef4fa38 0x68d89e00)
0x7ef4fa28 : 0x97e23514 (0x68d89e14 0x0 0x0 0x0)
0x7ef4fa58 : 0x3bfc6b (0x3df2d054 0x2b9317f8 0x0 0x24f0a3)
0x7ef4fa98 : 0x3bfd28 (0x2b9317f8 0xaa02904 0x0 0x0)
0x7ef4fab8 : 0x3af826 (0x2b9317f8 0x0 0x0 0x0)
0x7ef4fae8 : 0x248b69 (0x2b92dbf4 0x0 0x7ef4fbe8 0x100007f)
0x7ef4fce8 : 0x23ee2e (0x7b19f300 0x14 0x14 0x6)
0x7ef4fd28 : 0x240ba9 (0x7b19f300 0x14 0x6 0x0)
0x7ef4fe48 : 0x240be5 (0x7b19f300 0x0 0x1 0x549124)
0x7ef4fe68 : 0x22ca34 (0x2 0x7b19f300 0x7ef4fea8 0xffffffff)
0x7ef4fea8 : 0x21b36e (0x2 0x7b19f300 0x0 0x0)
Backtrace continues...
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.symantec.kext.confidentialData(1.3f44)@0x97e22000->0x97e2dfff
dependency: com.symantec.kext.internetSecurity(1.3.2f5)@0x62b000
BSD process name corresponding to current thread: kernel_task
Mac OS version:
9L30
Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 9.8.0: Wed Jul 15 16:55:01 PDT 2009; root:xnu-1228.15.4~1/RELEASE_I386
System model name: MacPro1,1 (Mac-F4208DC8)
System uptime in nanoseconds: 145228120280331
vm objects:5850460
non-kernel map entri:1264428
kernel map entries:8462300
pv_list:1851864
kalloc.16:5443584
kalloc.32:81367040
kalloc.64:63418368
kalloc.128:2445312
kalloc.256:80748544
kalloc.4096:1277206528
kalloc.8192:2015232
vm pages:66613448
ipc ports:1197700
MAC Labels:1326168
vnodes:5018400
namecache:1644240
HFS node:6737024
HFS fork:2779840
buf.4096:2920448
buf.8192:56360960
Kernel Stacks:1785856
PageTables:29204480
Kalloc.Large:11616404
unloaded kexts:
com.apple.iokit.IOUSBMassStorageClass 2.0.8 - last unloaded 78388390721999
loaded kexts:
com.symantec.kext.fw 1.0.3f5
com.symantec.kext.confidentialData 1.3f44
com.symantec.kext.filesecurity 1.3.3f65
com.symantec.kext.SymAPComm 11.1.2f17
com.symantec.kext.pf 4.1.1f13
com.symantec.kext.ips 3.2f8
com.symantec.kext.internetSecurity 1.3.2f5
com.apple.driver.iTunesPhoneDriver 1.0 - last loaded 78264274723293
com.apple.iokit.IOUSBMassStorageClass 2.0.8
com.apple.filesystems.msdosfs 1.5.5
com.apple.driver.AppleHWSensor 1.9d0
com.apple.filesystems.autofs 2.0.2
com.apple.driver.AppleUpstreamUserClient 2.7.5
com.apple.driver.AppleHDA 1.7.1a2
com.apple.iokit.IOBluetoothSerialManager 2.1.9f10
com.apple.GeForce 5 -
Why does rebooting give devices different nodes in /dev?
I am using OS X 10.9.4, but this is an issue I've noticed on earlier OS versions. Currently I have an issue with a USB modem hooked up to my iMac (and I have a question that ties in, indirectly with this here), but I've noticed this with other devices.
I have one modem that is set up to receive faxes that is permanently assigned to /dev/cu.usbmodem0000001. It doesn't seem to ever change. When I first plugged in my new modem, it was /dev/cu.usbmodem2. (I had a crappy modem plugged in for a while - I think that was originally /dev/cu.usbmodem1.) I had to unplug it and when I plugged it back in it was /dev/cu.usbmodem3. When I saw this, I wanted to be sure it had changed and it wasn't my memory, so I unplugged it, waited, and plugged it in again and it was /dev/cu.usbmodem4.
I added it to my printers and faxes and thought nothing more about it, but then when I rebooted, my software couldn't find it, so I checked the files and found it as now /dev/cu.usbmodem1.
I would have thought the OS would keep track (using something like UUIDs) of the devices so they can be given the same node each time.
Why does OS X keep changing this around for the same device? Why does my one fax modem (same brand and model as the new one) always have the same device node and this newer modem have one that changes so easily? And is there anything I can do so this modem gets the same node each time it's plugged in or when the computer reboots?
I've asked this same question on Stack Exchange:
http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/138591/why-do-usb-devices-change-nodes- on-rebootI may be getting old, and my eyesight isn't as good as it can be, but I can clearly see that in example 2 and 3 you are not dividing by 0.047. So example 2 and 3 are not the same operation as example 1. The outputs of example 2 and 3 are completely dependent on the signals you are getting. Have you actually looked at those? You are using dynamic data which regulars such as myself absolutely detest. Be that as it may, you should look at the values you are feeding into the operation. I don't understand what you mean by "I see post-divide values in the signal".
-
Why does FF save files to desktop, when I have "downloads" checked in options? This is a new issue with the latest version 3.6.3 . Using Windows XP Driving me nuttier! Thanks.
(Is is that MicroNetFrame Asst thing?)
== This happened ==
Every time Firefox opened
== When I installed latest versionThanks for your reply. I appreciate your help.
It was just a hunch that MircoNetFrame was causing the problem. I disabled it as you suggested, and I still have the problem.
I just changed under Tools>Options> General - had checked "ask me every time" under downloads, so instead of asking me, FF saved the download to I know not where. It no longer saves it to the desktop, leaving a duplicate in "my documents".
In windows, I have found unless one knows the entire name of the document, one can never find anything. It isn't listed under recent ''''''__. I can't recall the nomenclature, but the
capability is ridiculous. So, I don't know where that file I just downloaded is!
I downloaded a PDF file, but this happens with all DL's. It was so easy to have them all stacked in one place and I could recall
what I had and when I downloaded it easily.
Do you have any other suggestions other that going back to the old version of FF, which I would rather not do?
Thanks again for your time, it is very considerate to help a complete stranger, I must say. Sounds like something I might do! Cheers!
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