Virtual copies naming issue

When I created a virtual copy of an image in LR3, and then I renamed the images, the virtual copies would have the new name with a hyphen.
i.e if there were two virtual copies associate with the file, the renamed sequence would be as follows jcp0001, jcp0001-1(vc), jcp0001-2(vc), jcp0004
This had the advantage of keeping my file numbers in sync when I uploaded them to my online lab (Pictage) and the client gave me a file name.
In LR4 renaming sequencing doesn't take into account the virtual copies in terms of the chronological # and compensating for the vcs. So the same sequence would be jcp0001, jcp0001-copy(vc), jcp0001-copy2(vc), jcp0002
This has the affect of misaligning my files with those of the online host. I have searched for how to adjust this, but cannot find a solution.
Anyone know of one?
Many thanks in advance!
Justine

The copy names are included in the exported filenames, but the way they are named by LR has changed from LR3 to LR4. The numbered sequence no longer "counts" the virtual copies as taking up a chronological number space. I know it's really confusing to explain!
But think of it this way, LR now counts the first master file as 0001, and the next master file as 0002, but there are 2 virtual copies of 0001. So when I export them, master file 0002 is really the 4th file in the list, and then I have a discrepancy between my hard drive files and the ones online the client is seeing (they see it as image 0004, when it's really file 0002). Does that make the problem clearer?
Thanks,
Justine

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Issue exporting original & virtual copies

I am using Lightroom 3.6 and do the following:
- I selsect a photo "test.cr2" and rate it 2 stars
- create a virtual copy of this photo and modify it (the virtual copy) and rate it 3 stars
Now I use different Export settings to export my 2 stars and 3 stars photos in jpg.
So I first select all my 3+ stars photos and export them:
- here my virtual copy gets selected and exported to my destination folder as "test.jpg"
Then I select all my pictures (1 to 5 stars) and export them too (but with different export options such as 'post-prcessing'). And I specify that existing pictures has to be ignored in the Export options since I don't want my previous batch to be overriden. And here 2 things happen:
- the original photo is tentatively exported as "test.jpg" (same name!) --> the file already exists, so "ignored"
- the vitual copy is exported as "test-2.jpg"
Finally, I end up with 2 photos "test.jpg" and "test-2.jpg" in my destination folder but they are actually the same and both issued from the virtual copy...
There are probably easy work-arounds to this situation - like split exports 3 to 5 stars and then 1 to 2 to avoid overrides. But... is it possible to keep constency in the naming convention of the exported files?
i.e if an exported file orginates from a virtual copy, always use "xxxx-2" even if the orginal is not exported at the same time
Tks & cheers

Sounds like a bug, that Beat's work-around would probably circumvent.
The problem I have with using the copy name, is that it can't be conditioned upon whether the photo is in fact, a virtual copy, or even: if the copy-name is blank.
So if you have:
{base-name} ({copy name}).{ext}
then if the master is named MyPhoto.DNG (with no copy name), and has one virtual copy named "Copy 1", then jpeg exports will be named:
MyPhoto ().jpg
MyPhoto (Copy 1).jpg
-bleck-tooey...
I have special virtual copy name handling in all my export plugins, but I think Adobe should address this in Lightroom proper.
R

Naming Presets for Virtual Copies and PS Edits

I'm new to Lightroom 4.1 and have been setting everything up... I'm having trouble with figuring out an efficient, clear naming system to distnguish Virtual Copies and Copies Edited in Photoshop. I tried using the "File Template Editor in the external Editing window... but I find it VERY confusing. Can anyone recommend a system and the way to enter it as a Preset in the File Template Editor.
My Image File Naming is as follows: KOBRIEN_YY_00001.dng
Thanks in advance for all suggestions!

Best to set the Rename Template from within the 'External Editing' panel of Lr Preferences. The format should be along the lines shown in screenshot. You add the custom text after the template has been saved.
Above should work OK for photos edited in Photoshop, but Virtual Copies are a different beast and can't be renamed using templates. If you do try it the master is renamed, not the copy. The thing is, VCs must have the same base name as the master. However, you can manually edit the Copy Name field in Library Metadata panel.

Virtual Copies And Collections Issue

I created a few virtual copies for the purpose of having B&W versions of images. Then I added a new collection named B+W and added these virtual copies to the collection. The counter for the collection incremented correctly but when I selected the collection, none of the virtual copies appeared there even thought they were counted in the collection.
Any one else experience this or can corroborate that this is a bug?
Jim

Similar problem, Jim. I asked about it twice in this self-inflicted thread:
http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx/.3bc36332/0
Got no response. Which is one reason I mentioned in the "Split This Forum?" thread that I'd be grateful for a stepped-up Adobe presence in the U-to-U. Because for all their generosity of time and spirit, even the most helpful users sometimes don't know the answer, and having somebody like George or Jeff jump in a say, "It's a bug; we're working on it," would save precious time.
Mac OS 10.4.9

Are Virtual Copies saved in Backups? How do I insert a backup into an existing catalog?

Are Virtual Copies saved in Backups? How do I insert a backup into an existing catalog
I deleted a tif image file that I didn't intend to, which had several LR virtual copies created from it. The virtual copies had a lot of important history that document my print preparation edits. Are these virtual copies saved in the LR backups?
If so, how can I insert them into the catalog I am using? I have made a lot of edits in the two days since my last backup and don't want to lose that history either. Do you suggest I make a current backup before retrieving files from my last backup? I know I'm supposed to go to the backup location and open the last backup, but how do I blend that with the current work from the last 2 days?
Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks, Tom

Rob,
That was exactly what I was after. However, I'm still having trouble getting the virtual copies imported. The master file was in my trash, I restored it to the original hard drive folder. Before I got your message I re- imported it to LR but of course LR came up with a new name since I was importing from and saving it to the same folder in LR. And of course no copies. This may have been a mistake, but before starting the procedure you described, I re-named the master file (it seemed that the import from backup would re-create it so I didn't want a conflict).
Then I did what you said and used the 'Import From Another Catalog' feature. I found the virtual copies in the backup and checked them. But when the import completed, the it gave me file names xxx/Copy1, xxx/Copy2 but there was no image or history or metadata. When I tried to find the folder containing the files, it said it couldn't be found. So I missed something in the settings. When I tried again, there was a warning saying the file(s) exists in the catalog and its settings differ. I went ahead anyway and the message I got was "No Photos in previous import"
Here's what the import from backup shows:
A box with catalog contents and all the folders and files within them, that you can check.
A New Photos section, which gives 2 file handling choices: a)add new photos to the catalog without moving them or b) don't import new photos
A Changed existing photos section with 2 replace options: a) nothing or b) Metadata and develop setting only. If you choose this you can check a box to preserve old settings as a virtual copy.
Not sure what to do. I changed the master file back to its original name, but that didn't make a difference. Suggestions? Thanks, Tom

No warning when deleting a Master image that is linked to Virtual Copies?!

Scenario: I am trying to clear out old images to free up storage space, so I go back though thousands of images looking for weak . unrequired shots.
Problem; when dealing with "mass deletions" it is near impossible to detect which images are "Master copies" from which I have any number of Virtual Copies. And when you hit delete you might well be ruining Virtual Copies without knowing it.
Surely there is a way to warn you that pics, X, Y & Z are linked to Xcopy1, YCopy1 & Zcopy1 etc, and give you an IMAGE SPECIFIC option to see those copies and make a choice of delete the master or not? I can't beleive Adobe think its user-freindly to have people trawl through each image to check before a deletion?
I know others have expressed similar concerns, and it seems a REALLY glaring omission in an otherwise decent ptoduct.
Comments from Adobe staff more than welcome.

eddybaby66 wrote:
Your response implies that you know how another person wishes to use the product, and it is clear that you do not know this. Being so prescriptive is no way for Adobe to look at an issue like this either.
your responce to the observation from the above forum member is a little inelegant and harsh. It is a very good way of telling you where there are VC's of images, but as you said, your methods are your own. Doing things your way and then asking for help and then biting like that is, well up to you how you reply to those offering help and positive suggestions
I dont' expect Adobe would be so prescriptive and +1 your comment and request is a very valid one

Creating unique names for virtual copies

I utilze three different sets of images for most jobs: the raws, the thumbnails I upload for client review and the jpgs I send out for prints. I like to match the filenames so there is no confusion. Unfortunately my gallery (smugmug pro) also assigns a unique # to each upload. When I use virtual copies to ceate alternate versions of certain images they are named copy 1 or copy 2 in LR and the preceding # is dropped from the sequence, so when I upload the thumbnails, the gallery #s no longer match the filename # below. I always instruct my clients to ordeer selections from the filename but enough of my retail clients have become confused that it is becoming irritating. So I was wondering if there is a way to overide the LR presets and assign individual names to the virtual raws and the jpgs?

OK You are confusing the file name with the SmugMug URL. When you publish to SmugMug you are exporting a new jpeg so your virtual copy is irrelevant unless you have a method of linking it with what your client is viewing. That probably means not changing the original camera file except for the number of different edits you make; which Lightroom does automatically.

Inconsistent order in grid when creating Virtual Copies.

When I create a virtual copy of a photo and look at it with the stack expanded, the order that the two pics appear in the library grid is inconsistent. Sometimes the VC is listed AFTER the original in the grid, and sometimes it's listed BEFORE the original. When it's listed before the original, I've tried changing the stack "on top" setting, but this only changes which photo appears when the stack is collapsed -- the order when expanded stays the same.
I feel like I might be missing something here, i.e. is there some method of making a VC appear after vs before the original in the library grid? Also, is there a way to swap the order so that I can "fix" the situation? So far, the only fix I've found is to delete the VC and re-create it, at which point the order is sometimes corrected.
Thanks for any feedback on this,
Larry

b_gossweiler wrote:
it might be that you have a filter in effect on "All Photographs" that prevents the VCs from being shown
Here's why I don't think that's my problem. I search and find an image - so yes I am using a filter - lets say I want file ABC123. Now I see that frame and I also see a Virtual Copy which I previously created. So clearly I don't have a any filter to prevent my seeing VCs. Now I select the Master and create a new Virtual Copy. The new copy does not appear but the Master reports it is now 1 of 3. So Lightroom is telling me there are three copies of this file, but only displays two, the Master and an older Virtual Copy.
All I have to do (!) to see the new Virtual Copy is quit and relaunch. Now I see all three copies, the Master, the older and the new VIrtual Copy. Nothing changes between quit and relaunch.
Even if "All Photographs" isn't a Smart Collection, is appears to have the same issue others have reported on creating Virtual Copies.
DG

Virtual copies and history?

I want to creat virtual copies that include the history so I can rever them from BW back to the origianl color. Why is the history removed when you creat virtual copies?

Alan - thanks for the tip. The conundrum of "which history should be shown" for multiple virtual copies isn't actually one at all. When a virtual copy is created, the history of the parent image is duplicated; further edits to that particular virtual copy are added to the top of that copy, just like they are now. Subsequent edits to the master copy don't affect any of the descendant VC's, including their history.
Andrew - why does it have to be a new iteration? It clearly isn't, since it has inherited all of the non-destructive edits from the parent. And you haven't addressed my workflow issue - how do I identify all of the edits made to a virtual copy? Right now, I can't; Lightroom throws this information away. There's no penalty if Adobe duplicated the edit history, you don't have to look at it if you don't want to.
Cornelia - someone has already created a feature request, here it is:
http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/new_virtual_copies_should_inherit_de velop_history
Cheers,
Tim

When I make virtual copies....

When I make virtual copies (PC) the virtual copy puts itself at the end of my filmstrip sometimes and sometimes it puts the virtual copy directly next to the original.
I want the virtual copy to be placed next to the original all of the time.
How can I make this happen and what do I do when the virtual copy decides to place itself at the end?
Thanks.

I have noticed myself on one occasion that lightroom did not adhere to the specified sort order in Library after creating a virtual copy. Shutting down and restarting LR resolved the issue. I was not able to reproduce the problem though.
Beat Gossweiler
Switzerland

Option to add Virtual-Copies to DNG -exists?

Option to add Virtual-Copies to DNG -exists?
..or only "convert virtual-copy-into-DNG" ?
( ..Not what I consider acceptable option :
Evolved (history)states of virtual-copies could be copied back temporarely to the original file's history, then "save as a snapshot" (then not forget that you do have such snaphots), then come back in its history stage befor pasting/or synchronizing and perform an insifignant change -in order to keep different versions of that photo...)

Same problem here.
/usr/lib/vmware/bin/vmware: /usr/lib/vmware/lib/libpng12.so.0/libpng12.so.0: no version information available (required by /usr/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0)
/usr/lib/vmware/bin/vmware: /usr/lib/vmware/lib/libgcc_s.so.1/libgcc_s.so.1: version `GCC_4.2.0' not found (required by /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6)
/usr/lib/vmware/bin/vmware: /usr/lib/vmware/lib/libpng12.so.0/libpng12.so.0: no version information available (required by /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2)
/bin/bash: /usr/lib/vmware/lib/libgcc_s.so.1/libgcc_s.so.1: version `GCC_4.2.0' not found (required by /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6)
/usr/lib/vmware/bin/vmware: error while loading shared libraries: libexpat.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
However, when running as root vmware works, but browsing for a VM does not.
(vmware:7926): libgnomevfs-CRITICAL **: gnome_vfs_uri_unref: assertion `uri != NULL' failed
(vmware:7926): libgnomevfs-WARNING **: Cannot load module `/usr/lib/gnome-vfs-2.0/modules/libfile.so' (/usr/lib/vmware/lib/libgcc_s.so.1/libgcc_s.so.1: version `GCC_4.2.0' not found (required by /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6))
Permissions/path/module issue?

Virtual Copies come first in exported files?

Is there a good reason why virtual copies, which come after the original file in the Library, are named in a way that causes them to come before in the exported set of jpegs? IE - ogfile.jpg and ogfile-2.jpg. When sorted by filename, the virtual copy is first! This totally counterintuitive. The original files should get a -1 suffix or the virtual copy should be named sequentially. Or am I missing something?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this!
I suppose I should add that I generally have a manually ordered final set of files - edited, complete with virtual copies, ordered, and, as a last step, batch renamed in the Library (Custom_Name + #Sequence), to take on the new order. In this case, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the exported set to be identical to the Library arrangement. After all, I do take care in putting everything in a consistent, coherent order, so my clients can make sense of their (gigantic) image sets.
So my options to acheive this are as follows 1) add a -1 to everything (huge sets with hundreds if not 1,000+ images) 2) manually add a -1 to the original file, requiring changing (and changing back!) the custom rename settings, or renaming from Bridge and syncronizing 3) manually rearrange the exported jpegs, batch rename (again!).
Or, alternatively, Lr could 1) rename the files in such a way during the batch rename in the Library, that will hold their order after export (ie treat the VC as a unique file, at least for renaming purposes) 2) add the -x suffixes so the files hold their order after export.
Lr could do this intelligently, seamlessly, and without user intervention. And it should!
Thanks again for not ignoring me!

Virtual copies exported in Win7 appear to lose edits

When I export virtual copies IN LR5, all seems well. The Library Grid view shows the new copies of the original image with the various changes I have made in Develop. This is also true for the brief folder view that LR5 pops up at the end of the export. But, when I later view the same folder with the Win7 Computer utility, or any other editor, these files all appear the same as the original! No changes evident. So it appears that I have missed some step in the export process to "fix" the changes in the virtual copies to the new files?
Kelly Cook

I know they should be different after export. I expected them to be different. Could the original file type be an issue? My original was a JPG, not RAW. The Library mode let me create virtual copies, the same a using a RAW file. And, Develop let me make all the usual adjustments to the virtural copies, same as if they had been RAW. Export did not put up any warning flags either, appeared to function normally, even though I was exporting JPG virtual copy to JPG. I did use unique filenames (appended the Copy text) for each of the exports, so there should not be any confusion there. Is some extra step needed to export a JPG virtual copy to JPG? Or is this an undocumented issue?

Lightroom virtual copies question

One of the advantages of virtual copies is thet you can have several copies, each with different processing for later comparison. Is there a consensus as to where you can keep notes unique to each virtual copy of the processing used.? The ol' mind sometimes leaks too much to remember what I did to each virtual copy and the history list is sometimes too cryptic to help.

Notes is something I really need. If LR created a place for us to store such notes, it would not be in the metadata and would not follow the image out of LR. Maybe that's OK. However, it isn't an issue because they don't provide anywhere for notes.
Since I really needed to know what I do with various photos outside of LR (usually PS), I started using the metadata field Special Instructions (called Instructions in LR) for putting in notes. These fields are all pretty imited in length. Special Instructions is one of the longer one at 256 characters. So I don't give details, just the general direction of what I did.
Note, if you do this, it just might show up in displayed metadata information. For example, flickr displays this field. I figure people don't need to know EVERYTHING, so I strip out this field before I upload. I was doing other metadata munging anyway to merge my location fields into description, so it wasn't a big deal for me.
Judy

How to unstack (if this is the right term) virtual copies in LR4?

i looked at this article http://forums.adobe.com/message/2881825#2881825 but it did not help. click on the 1/2 icon only makes it become "2" and doesnt sit the virtual copy next to each other.
is "stacking" the right term im using or is there something im overlooking. last week lightroom was fine, this week its acting up without me touching anything.
basically i would like to see my virtual copies side by side. thanks!

Aloha Y'all,
Don't know if you figrued this out, but I had a friend with the same issue and you inspired me to explore it a little more... The easy fix we found was being in the Library Module and in the Grid View... Then click "None" in the Library Filter bar at the top... It seems that somehow in the "attribute" area of the Library Filter bar at the far right we somehow had clicked on the first little icon to the right of the word "kind" that is to only view the "Master files"... We Tried it again to double-check and yep... With that icon clicked you cannot stack and unstack virtual copies... because you have told Lightroom to only show the Master Files... Duh. :-/
Thanks for giving me the oompf to figure that out... Hope is helps, if any of you didn't know that.
Message was edited by: SantaFeRick

Virtual copies naming issue

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