Time Machine and File Vault - How does it REALLY work?

Good afternoon,
I ran some tests and I can't figure out exactly how Time Machine behaves with Filevault.. here's what I did:
I ran a backup manually. It backed up about 265megabytes. This was right after iTunes downloaded an update for my iPhone. This is weird, because that is stored in Library/iTunes/iPhone Software updates, which is in my FileVault user data.
I ran a second backup right after. It backed up 726Kb. Sounds like not much has changed.
Then, I copied a folder (mp3 album) from my NAS to a folder called Time Machine Test in my home folder.. 91megabytes of files.
I started a backup. Sure enough, it backed up about 91megabytes.
After the backup completed, I mounted the Sparsebundle file, and my files were there. I could copy them back properly.
Can someone explain to me exactly what TM can backup while logged in, and what gets backed up only when I log off?
It seems to me like actual files are being backed up, while the complete encrypted sparsebundle is backed up at logoff only. But if that's the case, why isn't there an option to restore individual files other than by mountaing the TM volume manually?
Thanks

infrid wrote: We shouldn't accept this as a price we pay for using other operating system features. Gepeto is quite right : it's unnacceptable, and Apple should sort it out.
Hmm. I guess it depends on whether you want your Time Machine backups to be encrypted or not.
If you use a whole disk encryption solution like PGP, Time Machine works fine when logged-in but all your data is backed-up as though encryption were not present, because one you have booted, the encryption is invisible to applications including Time Machine.
If you enable FileVault, and remove your Home Directory from the exclusions, TM will back up the files in the same way when you're logged in but they will be unencrypted on the backup drive.
With FileVault enabled and Home Directory excluded, it is not the FILES that are being backed up, but the encrypted VOLUME which is essentially one big file containing all the individual files in your Home Directory. It's similar to a TrueCrypt encrypted volume in this sense. It needs to be backed up unmounted which is why it only happens when you log off.
The only thing Apple could do would be to create an encrypted volume for the TM backup and synchronize that with your FileVault volume. Not quote the same thing as Time Machine though.
Message was edited by: Gledders

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What to do if you simultaneously run Time Machine and File Vault

Never do what is mentioned in the subject line; even if you decrypt your drive, it does not spread to Time Machine, and so if you ever need to do a system restore, File Vault will forget your password and lock you out of your own system.
Thankfully, I ended up having recourse. The solution is to log in as root and create a disk image from the last Time Machine backup, "latest," and then duplicate that disk image. Having done that, paste the files into the user folder of your choice, recreating the account you have lost.

Realistically, your only option is to upgrade to an Intel-based Mac.
There is no way to use iCloud on a Mac running anything lower than OS X 10.7.2 - not even Snow Leopard.
You can access iCloud.com through a web browser on your current computer, but you'd need a Mac running 10.7.2 to move to iCloud and it wouldn't sync anyway...

Time Machine and File Vault question

I just completed a clean install of OS x mavericks and then used my time machine back up to restore the mac.
The whole process was confusing for many reasons and I just want to get some clarification/verification on my next actions.
When I enter time machine preferences and click select disk. It gives me two choices. One in the group Back Up Disks and One in available disks. The confusing I have is that it is the same external hd. So which should I pick if I want to keep my original time machine backups?
The other question I have is, this whole journey started with me wanting to turn on file vault. I am using a late 2012 Mac Mini updated to Mavericks came with Mountain Lion.
Should I be able to use both an encrypted time machine (external hd) and file vault?
Thanks for the help.

The difference is that do yo want to combine the backus you made before with the previous backups (group Back Up Disks) or start a whole new backup (available disks). Either option will retain the previous backups unless you overtly delete them. I would select that later to start a new set of backups.
See the following for using FileaFault with Time Machine
http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/46833/with-file-vault-on-are-time-machi ne-backups-encrypted
http://kb.mit.edu/confluence/display/istcontrib/Enable+FileVault+(whole+disk+enc ryption)+on+Time+Machine+backup+drives+on+OS+X+10.9

Time Machine and File Vault

Does Time Machine work with File Vault? If it does it's no obvious to me how to find a backed-up file. I'd like to turn off File Vault, but that's another issue entirely. I'd have to remove a ton of stuff in order to turn off File Vault.

TM works with filevault but not well.
see this link
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=2007111404402514&query=time%2Bmachi ne%2Bfile%2Bvault

Time Machine and File Vault problems

Hi,
Since I converted to Mac more than a year ago, I turned my file vault on (although I learned in the meantime that it is not actually necessary....)
I now recently bought the time Capsule and found out that the Time Machine doesn't go well with the File Vault turned on. It does back up the home folder only when logged out and I don't get the hourly backups for single files either.
I then tried to turn File Vault off, but get the error message that I haven't got enough space on my hard disk (which I have). This message led me to this article here: http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1974
I am really not an expert and not too confident to play around with accounts, backups and so on, so I really don't want to go down the described route.
For me, it looks like a bug in OS X, I should be able to turn File Vault off with the click of a button. Also, why is the File Vault / Time Machine conflict nowhere mentioned ? I was playing round with TM to recover a single file, but this wasn't possible, that's why I went to explore the issue further...
I now just want to turn off File Vault and finally want to use my TC normally.
Who can help ?
Message was edited by: Mike201071

....so, it seems to work now.
I did eventually go through the routine of backing up my home folder manually on the TC, then I created a new account, copied everything back, deleted the old account, and so on, as described in the link above.
I did not turn on the File Vault, activated TM and backed the whole lot up via Ethernet, switched back to wireless and TM seems to do the trick now.
I have now access to single folders and files when I go back in time in TM, instead of the whole backup only.
This seems to be the only way TM & TC are working properly, why is this conflict between File Vault and TM nowhere mentioned ?

Possible bug during logout with Time Machine and File Vault enabled?

I have File Vault enabled on my machines so when I logout from them they do a backup to my Time Capsule.
*I don't login as root!*
Yesterday when I logged of everything was normal in the beginning.
All windows were closed and the progressbar showed up with the backup. Approx: halvway in the backup the finder was showned again.
See image: http://www.liajnad.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/leopard-logout.jpg
I couldnt open o terminal window as root but I was able to browse around in the filesystem as root even though I hadn't login as root.
Anyone else seen this problem?

Just to clarify, the new finder that was started had *root privilegies!*

Time Machine and File Vault - what gives?

I have recently moved my MacBook into the shed so that I can work in peace and quiet. My setup is that I have a Time Capsule connected to my broadband modem, and is acting as the wireless router. The MacBook is set to backup to the time capsule.
Due to my computer being out of doors I wanted to get FileVault up and running in order to make my entire drive more secure.
The problem I get is that it all seems to be working fine, until I log out, shut down or restart which takes approx 8-9 hours EVERY TIME. There doesn't seem to be any incremental backups taking place it just starts again and takes a further 8-9 hours.
Is this a limitation, or can I change the settings? My Time Capsule is secure in the house so I'm not bothered about data security from that end, it's just the MacBook is my concern.

Filevaulted home directories are only backed up when you log out. TM warns you about it when you set up TM. filevault also warns you about it when you turn filevault on the first time.
this happens for technical reason which i don't really want to go into. let me just say that there is no way around this. this does mean that every backup when you log out can be big and take a long time if done wirelessly but what you describe is very extreme. what kind of work do you do on the computer?how big is your home folder? do you work with any large database files? do you use entourage, or any windows virtualization programs? they all use large database files. also, how long ago did you turn on filevault? was it in Snow leoaprd, leopard, or even a prior OS?
Message was edited by: V.K.

My mac 10.8 does no have the file, com.apple.desktop. plist I wentto lIbrary, preference and look for it and it is not where in my mac. I also launch time machine and file is no where on my Mac. How do I get this file back?

My mac 10.8 does no have the file, com.apple.desktop. plist I wentto lIbrary, preference and look for it and it is not where in my mac. I also launch time machine and file is no where on my Mac. How do I get this file back?
thanks

System files are hidden by default in Finder now, search for what you want then click the little + button on the top right of the bar that appears when you do a search. A new bar comes up and click the first box (that says "Kind"), change it to "System Files". Then change the box that says "aren't included" to "are included" and your file should show up.
http://osxdaily.com/2009/02/25/show-hidden-files-in-os-x/

Can i use my time capsule to wirelessly backup my macbook and its external hard drive, which up until now was it's time machine and storage? How?

Can i use my time capsule to wirelessly backup my macbook and its external hard drive, which up until now was it's time machine and storage? How?

The external drive must be connected to the Mac using either USB or FireWire
You must remove the external hard drive from the list of items that are "excluded" from backups in Time Machine Preferences.
Here's how:
Open System Preferences (gear icon on the dock)
Open Time Machine
Click Options
Look for the name of the hard drive in the list of "excluded" items and click on it to highlight it
Click the -- (minus) button at the bottom of the list to remove the hard drive from the list of "excluded" items....so it will now be backed up
Strongly recommend that you do the first backup using Ethenret from your computer to the Time Capsule since the entire contents of the external drive will be copied on the first pass. Ethernet will be 3-5 faster than wireless.
Once you have the first backup done, you can use wireless for subsequent backups since they will nornally be much smaller....unless you add large files to the external drive.

Using external HDD for Time Machine and files in one single partition ?

Hello everybody.
I've been searching for some time now and have encountered some contradictory answers, so I turn to you.
I would like to know if it's possible (one) and safe (two) to use a single partition for both Time Machine and file storage. I've read that this should be ok, since TM is actually only a single folder, which means the rest can easily be used as a standard Finder drive. Some people say however that this is not good to do so, because TM will run out of space quicker. But if the -let's say- 30Gb used for files where used by TM after a month, that would be the same, wouldn't it ? It would simply erase older backups. But is it safe to do so ? Will Time Machine not makes errors when accessing files or doing an entire system backup ? I don't won't to make a new partition really, that's why I'm asking you here, to let me know some arguments about it.
Thank you very much for your answers.

Marekova wrote:
Yet, overlooking that, you say "safe: mostly", why is that ? where's the "danger" or, what where you thinking when you said that ? Aren't these simple folder's ? Do you mean that, because during a full backup, these "stranger" files could be a problem ? It would be great if that was clarified, since I've found no indication about it elsewhere, has anyone tryed it ?
Oh, yes folks have tried it. That's why I (and many others) recommended against it.
Here's a similar thread from just the other day: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1926893 Note the responses from the top 2 "gurus" on this forum.
I probably should have asked you what you mean by "safe." If you mean, will TM delete other files on it's partition, no, it won't. If you mean, can there be problems, then yes, there can be conflicts and difficulties, as mentioned.
As to whether TM backups are simple folders, no, they aren't. They look like normal files and folders, but they actually contain what are variously called "hard links," "multi-links," and (my own personal favorite term) "ghost clones." Think of them as very fancy aliases. So they're not to be fooled with directly, by us mere mortals.
If you want more on this: http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2007/10/mac-os-x-10-5.ars/14
and/or: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/12/roadto_mac_os_x_leopard_timemachine.html
and, if you haven't seen it yet: http://www.apple.com/findouthow/mac/#tutorial=leopardtimemachine
You should also know that, for some reason, TM stores it's backups differently when it does them wirelessly. In that case, they're in a "SparseBundle," very different from the structure used for directly-attached backups.
All the more reason to put each Mac's backups in a separate partition, and if you want to store other data there also, a 3rd partition for that.
I've been using Mac since many years now, but I have no idea about backups, so excuse me if the statements appear a little childish.
Nope. Even those of us who are "older than dirt" and have used many flavors and varieties of backup systems for decades are in a whole new world with Time Machine.
And most of the folks on this forum who found themselves in deep trouble got there because they assumed things or didn't ask.

Trouble Migrating Time Machine Backup & File Vault

I recently spilled coffee on my MacBook Pro, which had an up-to-date OS X as of April 6, 2014. My old computer had File Vault turned on, and when I received my new Macbook Air and migrated the files I get an error message trying to log in. I know the password is correct, and though I tried going on, enabling a root acct, deleting and then re-adding the account, I still do not have access to my backed up files or documents.
I've seen a lot of work arounds for this issue, many of them rather in-depth, and so my question is this: to avoid all of that, is it easier if I can access my old Mac (the keyboard and screen don't work, but with some external hardware I think I can get into the hard drive) and turn off File Vault, back up the computer one more time with Time Machine, and then try to migrate it again. It seems like this would be the quickest fix and require the least amount of headache.
If, for some reason that does not work or I cannot make a new backup file, what is the best way to solve this problem that the community has seen?
Thanks in advance!

aschmid wrote:
Yes you are right, I know it isn't supported - as so many other things but they work!
This one is notorious for working for a while, then . . . not.
In addition to the problems above I got a pop-up from Time Machine saying the backup file is broken and it needs to create a new one. I told it to go ahead and what happened is that it actually proceeded to DELETE the old backup file before creating a new one - there goes my several months of backup history!
Yes, just as it says in the message. See #C13 in [Time Machine - Troubleshooting|http://web.me.com/pondini/Time_Machine/Troubleshooting.html] (or use the link in *User Tips* at the top of this forum).
All I can say do now is connect my drive directly to my iMac and figure out a way how I can backup my other iMac and the MacBook I have. On the AE this just worked remotely.
Yeah. Until it didn't.
Really not much options here to backup a home with 3 Macs!?!
Sure there is. Back the others up to the same drive, over your network, via sharing. See #22 in [Time Machine - Frequently Asked Questions|http://web.me.com/pondini/Time_Machine/FAQ.html] (or use the link in *User Tips* at the top of this forum), for details and setup instructions.

External disk for Time Machine and Aperture Vaults

I'm planning on buying an external HD for backups with Time Machine and I will also be using it for Vaults in Aperture.
Should I partition the disk into two volumes, one for each, or will TM and Aperture co-exist quite happily on the same volume?
I'd rather use a single volume as, in my experience, partitioning a disk always results in one volume filling up long before the other, however integrity of the backups is the most important requirement.

I strongly agree with V.K.
The other big reason to partition is, as you say, one volume will fill up before the other.
That's exactly how TM is designed to work -- fill up whatever space you allocate to it. Unlike traditional archive-type backup systems, it manages it's space and deletes backups automatically. As you probably know, it keeps it's hourly backups for 24 hours, then deletes them, except the first of the day, which becomes a daily backup and is kept for a month. Similarly, after a month, one of those daily backups becomes a weekly, and the others are deleted. But the weeklies are kept as long as there's room. Unless something goes wrong, you never have to do a thing.
So, if you have other data in that same partition, TM will, eventually, fill up the remaining space, limiting the space available to Aperture.

Time Capsule both: Time machine and file server

Hi!
We have 3 macs that has access to a Time Capsule we use just as a file server.
Now, I'll like to do backups of all the data, and I was thinking about using Time Machine in all the computers to backup in Time Capsule.
My question is, can I use Time Capsule as both? With Time Machine and also as a file server?
Thanks,
Júlia

Time Machine can be used to backup your Macs to the Time Capsule. You set this up on each Mac by opening System Preferences (gear icon) on the dock and then opening Time Machine to select the Time Capsule as the destination for backups.
Time Machine will keep separate files for each Mac on the Time Capsule and your regular files on the TC will be left alone. Ideally, Time Machine needs about twice as much space for each Mac to allow for a good history of future backups.
Backup each Mac one at a time since the first backup will copy everything from the Mac over.
Things will go 3-5 times faster if you connect the Mac to the Time Capsule using an Ethernet cable for this procedure.
Once the "master" backup is completed for each, you can switch back to wireless to backup incremental changes since these will only take a few minutes on average.
As you know, Time Machine cannot be used to backup the regular files that you already have on the Time Capsule disk. If you need to backup these files, post back for a few suggestions on applications that can handle this task.

Time Machine, Time Capsule and File Vault Profile Not Backing-up

Hi,
After the last update to 10.5.6 time machine is not backing up my filevaulted profile.. I know there is more people out there with the same problem and was wondering if anyone has found a fix?... I'm doing a clean backup with a brand new time capsule, called support spoke to 4 different people and no solution.. most of them are even surprise when they hear me say that I expect TM to back up my filevaulted profile when I log out.. they are sending it to their engineers .. could be a week before I hear from them.
Thanks.

Maybe this: http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1550?viewlocale=en_US

Can I restore a iPhone back up from time machine and if so how?

I have upgraded my iphone to IOS 7 this morning. However as I was backing up my phone, the cable I was using was removed from the macbook.
I now have a iPhone back up that is corrupted, and when i try and restore my settings to the new IOS7 upgraded phone, it will not allow my old settings to be placed on the phone.
I am therefore thinking of using an old back up from Time Machine, but do not know how to access itunes from time machine. Everytime I try and enter iTunes from my Time Machine vault it says Mac OSX requires the application and therefore cannot be restored.
Please help or tell me what I should be doing instead.
I have a feeling I will lose my app data and have to manually sort my home screens. Luckily all my contacts, emails, photos etc are synced to iCloud, but the back up of my iphone isn't as I don;t have the upgraded space on ICloud and have a iPhone thta has 16GB on it.
Cheers in anticipation of your help
Stephen

Hi Lawrence. Thanks so much for that advice - I'm really grateful. I hope you don't mind me asking a couple more questions: I have found that folder via Finder - I clicked on Library then App Support then Mobile Sync and within that, there's a folder called Backup and within that, 4 files. I also tried accessing it via the Go/go to folder method you suggested (in case that revealed more which remain hidden unless I use your route) but I couldn't make that route work.
I presume I'm looking at the correct files but please advise me if it's still possible that I'm not.
I had already tried to look at these backup files in Time Machine. They appear to be backed up, going back a year. If I can restore one from yesterday, that should solve my problem. However I've looked through them randomly going back a month or more, and they all seem to have been created in 2013, and last modified then. Only one of the files has a more recent 'last modified' date. But surely Time Machine has captured each backup of the iPhone going back over time? I'm baffled.
I hope the above makes sense. I'd be really grateful for any further advice.
steve

Time Machine and File Vault - How does it REALLY work?

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