AAC vs. Apple Lossless, Library Setup

I'm just starting out with setting up my iTunes Library on a new hard drive (20GB), which I'm pretty much going to devote to music. Under the Preferences > Advanced Tab > Importing, we have the choice of encoding, and I'm not sure which would be better, AAC or Apple Lossless (?)
I'm planning to import around 400 CDs, and I've got another internal hard drive (120GB), to which I could go. This brings up, another question. When I set the place for my iTunes library, should I put in one spot, say on this newer, bigger hard drive, or could I split it across two different drives? If I wanted to move the library, after it's filled, how much of a problem is that?

M,
The AAC format uses about 1MB per minute of song (5MB for a 5 minute song), where the Apple Lossless Encoder requires about 5MB per minute of song (25MB for the same 5 minute song). The AAC format is quite sufficient for ipod and computer speaker use. You may want to consider the larger Apple Lossless or even AIFF for music intended for playback on elaborate home stereo and theater use, but the AIFF format is the largest (about 10MB per minute of song, or 50MB for a 5 minute song). Be aware that Apple Lossless encoded songs will only play on iTunes, quicktime apps and certain ipod models (not all). What that means is that if you burn a CD in Apple Lossless, it will not play on your home CD player. The only way to use Apple Lossless on your home CD player will be through an airport express.
I regret I do not know the answer to your second question regarding splitting a library over two hard drives.
Hope this helped.
Terry

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FCPX + Lion + Cannot handle AAC or Apple Lossless audio in H.264! (Clicks and Pops)

This is a problem I've been having since I upgraded to Lion, and I've posted this response in other forums, but wanted to start a fresh one with a video I created of my findings. In a nutshell: FCPX in Lion cannot handle AAC audio in H.264 files since it will create audible clicks and pops when it subsequently renders the footage. This ***** because the iPhone 4 for example records as H.264 and AAC for the audio. Below are my findings:
So I think I figured it out! (I'm pretty sure FCPX + Lion has issues with compressed audio formats, ESPECIALLY AAC and Apple Lossless!) There's a video of my findings below:
1. I tried doing exactly the same thing I was trying to do on my machine on a co-worker's Snow Leopard MBP, and it worked out fine (it was just importing an iPhone 4 .mov and exporting it in FCPX). The output file was pretty much the same as what came in.
2. I found out that only movies from my iPhone 4 were coming out all crazy in the audio, yet my Canon T2i files were fine. Both are H.264, yet the Canon T2i records audio as Linear PCM, while the iPhone 4 records audio as AAC.
3. So I got an idea to use screen flow to record a youtube video and record the computer's audio. Then I decided to export with different formats, both as HD NTSC standards and as web standards with H.264.
4. I found out that both NTSC and H.264 standards were perfectly fine, SO LONG AS THE AUDIO WAS LINEAR PCM (or uncompressed!).
5. I then exported the same clip (both times as H.264) and ONLY changed how the audio was rendered (either Linear PCM/Uncompressed or AAC) and VOILA, I got click and pop artifacts ONLY in the AAC version. The ones that were output as uncompressed audio were totally fine!
CONCLUSION:
Final Cut Pro X on OS X Lion has issues with compressed audio, MAINLY AAC and Apple Lossless! Anything that is Linear PCM/Uncompressed should be fine! For example, MPEG 4 AAC Enhanced Low Delay at 320K came out 95% OK, one or two clicks.
So if any of us are working with material where the audio came to us already as AAC (like an iPhone 4), then we have to rip the audio out somehow first (like through VLC for example) and import it separately as an uncompressed file.
Here's a youtube video showing exactly what I'm talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDw4btShH0s
Anybody else have any thoughts on this before Apple comes out with a fix?

I was having the same problem and spent several hours on the phone with apple working with one of their 3rd level support guys. Their is deffinatley a issue with Lion and FCPX. I was told they would escalate to a FCPX engineer and they would get back to me in two days. In the mean time I went to my local apple store and was able to recreate the issue on every machine I tried. Apple did call back and confirm that there is an issue with the way FCPX and Lion handle the import and export of AAC files. They said there would hopefully be fixed in a future update.
The best work around I found is to take your AAC file and convert it to a WAV. I used compressor to do this and it seems to have solved the problem.

Head Spinning on Creating a Apple Lossless and AAC libraries

I am contemplating archiving all my CDs to an Applelossless library using iTunes. Before doing so, I have some questions. We are in a WIN XP environment.
1) How do I convert an Apple Lossless album to AAC format with all the album info in tack to a separate iTunes library?
2) How do I give multiple WIN XP users access to this single AAC library via iTunes to load their iPod or buy music for this single AAC library?
3) If I add CDs to the Apple Lossless library using iTunes, is there a way to keep the AAC library automatically in sync?
Is there a better approach I should consider?
Thanks for the help experts!

To set up another library in the same Windows user account hold down the shift key when starting iTunes. In one library have your lossless files. In the other library have the AAC files. In the second library import the lossless files with settings set to convert to AAC. To allow multiple users access to the same file store the library where they both have access. Each library is independent, changes in one are not made in the other automatically. You will have to add to one in lossless, go to other library then import the files there.
Better approach. Maybe. I think it is a waste of space to use Apple lossless. My hearing can't tell from AAC 192k from CD. So I just use AAC at 192k or 160k. Even lower for audiobooks.

Ripping CDs via Apple Lossless

In anticipation of the launch of iTunes Match, I started ripping my CDs in Apple Lossless format. I ripped two CDs but then I notice that those tracks were not available on my Windows Media Player as well as for Amazon cloud drive. I then converted the files to AAC via iTunes, which made them compatible with Amazon (haven't tested the WMP yet). However, all the tracks were duplicated in iTunes. Is there any way to avoid this, basically have both Apple Lossless and AAC files in my machine, but not duplicate my iTunes albums? Thanks!

It is perfectly possible to get WMP 12 in WIndows 7 to accept Apple Lossless files, to play them, and even to read the embedded metadata including the embedded album artwork. I cannot comment about Amazon's cloud, however even Apple's own iCloud only supports AAC format in that via iTunes Match (when turned on by Apple) it will provide only 256kbit AAC even if your own iTunes copy is in something else like Apple lossless.
To get WMP 12 and Windows 7 to accept Apple Lossless you need to do the following
Install a directshow filter so WMP can play Apple lossless, there is only one such directshow filter available, it was written by Milenko Mitrovic and is based on a solution devised by myself. The easiest way to install this is as part of a codec pack for Windows 7, as this pack will also do the hard work of disabling the built-in AAC codec which otherwise would interfere, the directshow filter can play both AAC and Apple Lossless. This pack can be downloaded from here http://shark007.net/win7codecs.html
You now also need to install a plugin for WMP 12. While Apple Lossless uses exactly the same file extension, exactly the same file format, exactly the same metadata format as AAC which WMP 12 already understands, Microsoft deliberately chose to make life difficult and put Apple Lossless files in the other section instead of the music section. This plugin written by Tim De Baets tricks WMP 12 in to handling Apple Lossless just like AAC and therefore put them in the music section, see http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=75123&view=findpost&p=76 7947
I have my entire iTunes library in Apple Lossless and shared with WMP. Via WMP it even works in Microsoft Media Center.
If your syncing your iTunes library to an iPod, iPhone, or iPad, you can set iTunes to automatically convert to AAC format when copying to your iPod (or similar) device. Your iTunes library will be unaffected and just keep a single Apple Lossless version.
If you do want to have both AAC and Apple Lossless versions but not have both listed, you can create a second separate iTunes library by holding down the Shift key when you launch iTunes.

Apple Lossless streaming on Apple TV

When streaming Apple Lossless files on on Apple TV, what is the maximum bitrate? I realize Apple TV can stream AAC and MP3 files at 320 kbps, but what about Apple Lossless file that can often provide up to 1,000 kbps? Does Apple TV support such high bitrates? (I know the sampling is always 16 bit / 48 kHz).

Hello. For some reason, your reply to my May 2 post, has disappeared, though I still have it in email. I've reposted in below.
First, let me thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I'm confident that you've zeroed in on a solution. The clarity of your response is greatly appreciated.
Your points about compressed/lossy formats make sense. This explains the lower bitrates for those formats.
You also asked about the original source of my alac (Apple Lossless) files. As you may have guessed, the original files are typical itunes downloads, which I understand are usually MP3s at 256 kbps.
I had assumed that running them through the itunes converter would transform them into proper (16/44.1) lossless files with the associated bitrates ranging around 1,000 kbps -- with a much richer sound.
At first glance, it would appear that I was wrong. Merely upsampling the music has created larger files but without the added clarity, depth and soundstage. That's how I read your previous post. Again, correct me if I am wrong about this.
However, there is a twist.
As I mentioned, when I play these alac files through Apple TV -- through homesharing on my computer -- they sound no better than the 256k files. However, when I play the same files through the foobar2000 media streaming software, they sound much better and show the proper bitrates at around 1,000 kbps.
On this last question, my ears may be playing tricks on me, but I don't think so. I'm playing the files through a good system: an audiolab 8200CDQ pre-amp and 8200p power amp.
So, this has me stumped.
One last question: what is the point of having a program that upconverts MP3/AAC files to lossless if there is no improvement in sound quality. Why would you have a bigger file that sounds just as bad as the small one?
Regards
Here is your May 3 post, which has disappeared from the websit.
May 3
No problem. Sorry for the long reply.
I see what you mean about my equation. All 16/48 stereo signals would equate to 1536kbps. If you changed the sample rate to 44.1 (what CDs use) or something else, then the bitrate would change.
Now thats for uncompressed formats like WAV, AIFF, and PCM. And in the case of Airplay, the stream getting sent to the AppleTV is always uncompressed, no matter the the original format (aac, mp3, apple lossless, etc).
AAC files (and mp3, wma) are known as compressed formats: some fancy math equations are used to reduce the file size w/o your brain noticing the missing bits, so that initial stream (1536 kbps for instance) gets reduced to 320 kbps or lower in order to fit more songs on your device. the way this happens is really crazy but if you want to learn about it theres a magazine that did a good article. WARNING, its really technical!: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr12/articles/lost-in-translation.htm
you seem to be able to hear the difference between compressed and uncompressed formats. many people do but many dont. It all depends on your hearing, sound equipment, etc. I was wondering if the reason your not hearing a difference btwn apple lossless and aac might be because of where the lossleess files came from. did you rip them from CD's or convert them from another format? If they didn't come from CD's, WAV, or AIFF files, you probably won't hear a difference, because you can't "upconvert" from something like AAC to Apple Lossless and get higher sound quality. If they came from CDs, then maybe the AAC versions are just really good quality to begin with and so you are having a hard time telling. That article has some examples of the same music in different formats, so you can test your ears and see if you notice a difference.
bE

When will Apple Lossless Music be Available from the iTunes Store?

I have recently rediscovered the wonders of uncompressed music. I bought my first CD player in 1984. The best vinyl records were better then than the best CDs, and still are, but the average CD was a lot better than the average vinyl. The CD average has probably gotten better since then. At some point, I imported the CDs I listened to into my Mac, initially as 128K AAC, and later as 256K AAC, and thought I was still getting good quality. A couple of months ago, I bought an external USB DAC (NuForce Icon µDAC) and some better-than-the-usual-computer-speakers powered monitors (M-Audio AV40). And I reimported my CDs in Apple Lossless format. Oh! Sweet new music!
The difference between 256K AAC and Apple Lossless is subtle, but through good equipment it's still very noticeable. I have lots of music I bought from the iTunes Store over the years, in 128K and 256K AAC. Some of those I've replaced with CD rips, but I don't have all those CDs. I sure would like to be able to upgrade to Apple Lossless through the iTunes Store. I'd be happy to pay the HDTracks.com prices of $12/album or $1.49/track for the privilege, but it isn't available. The best Apple will sell me is 256K AAC. So now I'm getting all my new music from HDTracks.com, who have wonderful recordings, but a small selection, or as CDs from Amazon.
Apple, when are you going to step up to the plate for the audiophiles in your market and sell us Apple Lossless (or FLAC) music? I realize that we aren't nearly as big a market as the teeny-bopper iPod users out there, but we ARE a market, and I for one would happily return to the iTunes Store if I could buy full-resolution music there.

Wonderful question, would be nice if Apple was not so hush-hush about new developments, but alas, that is what they must do to stay on top of the game. I cannot wait for the day when I will open iTunes and see the phrase, "All Downloads now in Full CD Quality Apple Lossless!" Woohoo, what a momentus occasion that will be. Fortunately, we can hope that they will allow upgrades to Apple Lossless just like they did for iTunes Plus (and why wouldn't they, it's a money maker).
I too have only been purchasing cds mostly from amazon to rip in Lossless, and just came across an album of interest to me that is unfortunately only available through iTunes and Amazon. The hard copies of Steve Jablonsky's Transformers Score are only found in highly marked-up quantities on amazon and ebay, so i am left to bite the bullet and purchase the adequate 256kbps AAC version from the iTunes store. At least I don't have to buy Amazon's MP3 coded versions(typed with a smirk).
With the capacity of most iPods ranging between 8 and 160 GBs, I think it is safe to assume that storage space is not really an issue anymore. Let us cross our fingers for Apple Lossless soon(or use those fingers to raise typed awareness).

Converting "Apple Lossless" back to "AAC" - More than 1 track at a time...

Hello,
Short version: I have hundreds of tracks that need to "Create AAC Version", and I can't right-click 8,536 songs in my library one at a time to find them all. Is there a method to sweep the entire library and convert all songs to this format if they are not already?
The problem with this is it still creates a duplicate of the song and the other original needs to be deleted.
Note - the file name changing (it appends a "1" on the M4A file), the "tag" displayed in iTunes retains the song name.
Thanks!,
Joseph
Long version: For the benefit of people facing the same problem and combing the forums for help, here's the rest of the story...
I'm not entirely sure when this changed (and I've reset my Import settings back to AAC 128-bit now), but I've managed to import a good number of CDs at this higher quality "Apple Lossless" format. Essentially, that's overkill - I listen to an iPod classic with headphones the majority of the time (98%) and I won't hear the difference.
CHECK: Edit | Preferences | "General" tab | "Import Settings" button
Essentially my hard-drive space has been disappearing at a rapid rate. I downloaded a tool (WinDarStat) and found my iTunes folder is 50% of my 200GB used. (Yes, I'm on an older laptop -- HD=220GB -- and am getting the 'out of space' warnings.) I found some folders for recent CDs were over 1GB alone and started digging.
I happend to have REM's studio "Man on the Moon" on here twice. The IN TIME version is AAC 128-bit and only 4.9MB in size, whereas the PART LIES version is Apple Lossless 1068-bit and 8x's larger at 39.9MB.
If you right-click a track, it provides option to "Create [other] version.", depending on going to/from ACC to Lossless or vice-versa.
Once I did this for "Man on the Moon", I got 75% of the song's space back ... from approximately 40MB to 11MB.
It does create a second copy of the song, so the original has to be deleted - be certain to "Move the song to the Recycle Bin" when warned.
A better option - all be it more time consuming - is to re-import the CDs.

For backup see this user tip.
The Create <Format> version tool uses whatever the current import settings are.
You can create a playlist of things that need converting as Ed says above.
To ease the conversion process, and keep your current ratings, playcounts, and playlist membership, plus recyle the old files automatically see my script ConvertFormat. Test on say a single album first to make sure it works as you expect/need.
tt2

Itunes match replacing Apple Lossless Files with .AAC

I have coverted my entire music library to apple lossless.. it appears that iTunes Match over time downgrades my music files to 256kbp .AAC files.
Is anyone else seeing this? How can I get iTunes Match to STOP doing this?

Michael Allbritton wrote:
iTunes Match does not touch the files on your computer. These files will be "downgraded" only if you delete the original file and download the matched track. The service does not upload ALAC files to the cloud. It converts the ALAC to a temporary AAC file, which is uploaded to listen to on iOS devices. On your computer, the ALAC files stay ALAC.
Hmm, that's interesting because on Apple's iTunes Match page it says (my emphasis):
Which music formats can iTunes Match handle?
You can match or upload music formats that can be played with iTunes. That includes AAC, MP3, WAV, AIFF, Apple Lossless, and more.
which clearly suggets that it will upload ALAC to iCloud

Library size after Apple Lossless conversion

Hi,
I've converted my itunes library to Apple Lossless format in the belief that I could get more songs onto my iPod, however, even though I've deleted the old format song from the music library, my library has nearly doubled in size. Anyone got any idea how to slim it down?
Thanks

If you converted from MP3, the ONLY thing you did was increase the file size by about 5 times.
Once it is converted to MP3, the file size is ~10% of the original. A lot if data is thrown out. Converting that MP3 to Lossless will not get back any info since it no longer exists.
I'm looking for the smallest size with the least loss from the original
You need to RIP from the original CD to Apple Lossless.
Apple Lossless is still gonna be ~50%-60% of the original file size, which is usually ~30MB to 60MB.
AAC at 192 kbps is ~1.5 MB per minute and unless using a high end stereo equipment and a high end sound card, most users will not be able to hear any difference.
I suggest you RIP the same CD a few different way and compare them. Check the file size and audio quality.

How can i convert my whole library to flac or apple lossless

how do i convert my whole library to flac or apple lossless?!!?!!?!?!?!

First, FLAC is not supported by iTunes and the same probably applies to the iPod.
Second, are all your files currently in AIFF or WAV format, or on CDs? If you have mp3 files or AAC files the only thing that will happen by you converting them to lossless is you will use up more space for the music with no gain in quality. Quality is lost when you convert to mp3 or AAC and converting it to lossless won't get it back.
It looks like current ipods support Apple Lossless. Still, the whole idea behind ipods is to use compressed format so you can fit on the most music. Read http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=85227
If after doing all that you still want Apple Lossless, you need to set the preferences to ALAC in your iTunes preferences, then convert with the Advanced menu command. Mind you, I use an older iTunes so you may have to explore a bit to find where they have those features now. This conversion will place a copy of the file in iTunes in the new format but also leave the old one there, so you'll need to delete the old ones if you don't want them.
Message was edited by: Limnos

Copying/converting apple lossless to aac in a different location?

I have ripped about 1000 cd's or so in apple lossless format to run on a sonos player.
I want to convert those tracks to aac so i can run on an ipod. but i do not want to store them in the same location on NAS.
any suggestions how to do this?
thanks.
textunes
Windows XP Pro

You can create a new library.
1. Hold shift when starting iTunes. Choose Create Library and select the location for the new library.
2. You'll start off with a blank library. Open iTunes Preferences and turn off the option (on the Advanced tab) to copy files to your iTunes library when adding files.
3. Change the location of your library (also on the Advanced tab) to the place you want to save AAC files.
4. Set the import prefs.
5. Add the lossless tracks to the library. (These will remain in their current location)
6. Convert tracks to aac. These will be in the new library location.
Hope that helps

How do i convert my exsisting itunes library to apple lossless?

Also whrn i do this will i have duplicate files(original/lossless)? If so what is the best way for me to delete them form my macbook? Thanks

Not to pile on here, but the only point of Apple Lossless is to have a slightly compressed version of the an original CD (AIFF). I have converted my full CD collection (too many disks to even count) to Apple Lossless. The sound quality is indistinguishable from the original CD. Because the files are rather large for use on an iPhone or smaller iPod, I then convert them to 256 AAC (for my iPhone) or 160 MP3 to burn MP3 disks for my cars. I keep the Lossless files as the original content.
However, lately, I'm just purchasing 256 AAC iTunes Plus files. I'm losing quality, but it's just not worth the time to purchase CD's and convert them any more.
There is absolutely no reason to convert 256 AAC files to Lossless. In fact, I'm sure it might degrade the sound quality in that a lot of information just isn't in the 256 AAC file. However, don't quote me on this.

I'm getting a 9041 error when trying to convert files to AAC -- any ideas on how to fix it? the files files in iTunes show up as Apple Lossless but i can't put them on my iPod

i'm getting a 9041 error when trying to convert files to AAC -- any ideas on how to fix it? the files files in iTunes show up as Apple Lossless but i can't put them on my iPod

"I have been able to convert to AAC by first converting to AIFF and then to AAC. This is a pan though."
this worked for me.
thanks.

Apple Lossless vs. AAC 256k - and best way to change

I originally imported all my 1500 cds as Apple lossless files figuring that would give me the best audio quality for playing back through my AppleTV. But I have realized that sometimes my bandwidth is not enough (when other are downloading from their computers in the house) and the playback stutters. I also want to be able to fit more songs on my iphone.
So now I am thinking about re-encoding using AAC 256khz - I do not think I can really hear much difference.
Firstly what are your opinion on the relative quality of AAV vs. Apple Lossless files....
and secondly is it best to re-encode by ripping all my cds again (please say no) or can I just select all the lossless files in itunes and have it convert them all to AAC - and if that is the best way how do it do it....?
Many thanks for your help...

Well, I have the same question. So last night I compared the original CD vs. Apple Lossless vs. AAC 256kbit/s.
And to be honest: I cant really hear a difference between AL & AAC@256.
When I knew which version I was hearing I felt that AL is a bit more clear in the highrange. But when I closed my eyes and asked my girlfriend to randomly pic a quality, I only guessed right in 6 out of 10 trys. So I guess I cant tell the difference.
My heaphones are Audio Technica: http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/e69d047fa2f50ad9/index.html
The tested music was electronic/trance & pop/rock.
In case I later start hearing classic music or jazz, I might do this test again.
Kind regards,
Jan
Message was edited by: Jan Riggert

AAC, Apple lossless, Mp3,WAV

I used to use AAC now I use Mp3 at 320kbps. What is the best way to import for the best sound quality. I use Serrato Scratch so I usually have to convert some songs when their not in Mp3 format. If anyone has any insight I would greatly appreciate it

AAC and MP3 are comparable in terms of size and quality since AAC is basically the newer version of MP3. They are both lossy and compressed though AAC is a more efficient compression so you should get higher quality at the same bit rate/size when compared to MP3.
Apple Lossless is compressed but, as its name implies, it's lossless meaning it retains all the sound information, whereas AAC and MP3 discard data that is deemed unnecessary by the algorithm.
WAV is essentially a straight copy of the data from the CD.
If disk space is not a concern, Apple Lossless should be the best quality/MB.
If you are concerned about disk space-over absolute quality-go with either AAC or MP3. MP3 is older and more widespread, thus may offer better 3rd party compatibility. AAC, as stated above, is by the same MPE Group and is the new standard created to replace MP3.

AAC vs. Apple Lossless, Library Setup

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