Canon XL2 24p and FCP

Hi,
I've shot a project in 24p, 2:3:3;2 mode on the Canon XL2.
Does anyone have any info on the pros and cons of editing in 24p versus 29.97?
My final output is most likely for broadcast/DVD, but perhaps there will be a film transfer.
Do you lose some of that film "look" of 24p if it's edited in 29.97?
What is the best setting to Capture into FCP? I've had an "issue" with a couple of tapes coming in un-synched, though everything was Captured at the same setting.
Thanks,
Rex
[email protected]
www.rexpix.net

You'd have to recapture I think removing the advanced pulldown removal preset in FCP...However it won't look any different in the end because it has to play back at 29.97 no matter what on a TV (from tape)... Cinema Tools can remove 2323 from 29.97, but not 2332...
The positive side of 24fps video is that the file sizes are smaller than 30 fps video (fewer frames). so in theory, you could make a higher bit rate MPEG-2 file in the end for DVD's if your finished movie is longish... or if you are printing back to film, then 24fps media is really what you want to work with. However... in any case the movie will look the same as 29.97 because that is what you shot actually, with a pulldown added to spread 24 individual frames over the 29.97 that your camera shoots.
Modify the device control setting in the Audio/Video settings to FireWire Basic... it's in the pulldown menu on the first tab of the A/V settings in the FCP menu.
Jerry

Similar Messages

Questions about XL2 24p and capturing

Hello
I have been reading through the posts and wondered if anybody could answer this question. I will be shooting on an XL2 using the 24 (Advanced or otherwise). Now I know how to set up FCP for capture, but I am wondering about capturing from a deck or another camera. I own both the XL2 and a GL1. I am wondering if I can capture footage shot in 24p (advanced or otherwise) using a the GL 1 as a deck.
It would seem to me that I can't because the GL1 does not possess the 24p option, but I am not really sure. Does the deck actually play back at 24p or does it playback at 29.97 and FCP just takes the frames it wants?
I ask this for saving wear and tear on the XL2 as my GL1 still works, but i won't likely use it for anymore shooting now that i have the XL2.
Thanks for any help you can give.

Any deck (almost) will read the tape fine. It's all just 0s and 1s.
Do some research on what the xl2 uses for cadence and what it actually means to add cadence.
In fact... a few posts down you'll find some good information.
CaptM

Canon Vixia HFS10 and FCP

Hello,
I have a client that shoots with 2 Canon Vixia HFS10 camcorders.
In the past I have converted files with the Xilisoft Video converter Ultimate which was a hit and miss sort of thing.
I also borrowed one of the cameras and used log and transfer which worked much better although slowly.
This go round I need to start capturing while they are still shooting so I was wondering if anyone knows if I can use FCP log and transfer with the original cards and a card reader as opposed to the camera itself? I am using an Intel Mac Book Pro.
Thanks in advance.
especially if you say yes it will work
Dean Janoff

And in mirroring the above post - I might recommend not only transferring the entire contents to a drive, but making a redundancy as a backup. Then, once you confirm the master and the backup, you can hand the card back to the camera operator to be wiped.
pJ

CANON HG21 HD and FCP

Hello, I have a new camera Canon HG21 HD which record on hard disk. I shall want to know if it is possible to copy directly these files to work with FCP without crossing by the capture. Pixela image mixer for pc seem to do that, but for the mac, wich software shall we use ?
thank

No native support of AVCHD. Actually very little that works on PCs as well.
You can transcode using the FCP log and transfer feature.
Or transcode to any codec on your computer using Toast 9.
Also Voltaic HD and VideoPierHD.

Working mac system/solution for Canon XL2 MiniDV footage.

Hello,
Thanks everyone in advance for your help. I am an experienced still photographer with just a little bit of video/film experience. I recently purchased a Canon XL2 miniDV camcorder. I have an older
G4 Mac Pro laptop(1.5Ghz Power PC w/1GB RAM). I plan on buying a new computer to edit footage from the Canon XL2.
I chose the Canon based on price and 24P frame rate options. Is anyone out there using this camera,shooting in 24P modes, and editing on a Mac?
What new Mac would you recommend (tower, imac, or laptop), and how much RAM do I need/want.
Will Final Cut Express work with 24P frame rates from the Canon? Would you recommend Final Cut
Studio instead of FCE?
Thanks,
--ucityxl

Thanks cgbier for your comments and help.
I'm still hoping that someone out there has lots of experience with the Canon XL2 shooting 24P frm
rates and is able to give me some clues regarding new Mac models, hard drive space needed, and RAM #'s and config's (fill all slots)?
I am tempted to get an Imac based on price, but I don't want to regret this decision later if I find
I would have been a lot better off with a G5 Tower workstation, and a massive internal drive(s).
I just shot 3.5 hours of footage that I want to edit into some three minute short and ten minute
longer versions. I may buy FCE if readers using Canon XL2 at 24P 2:3 and 24P 2:3:3:2 frame rates
say FCE will totally do the job. If experienced Canon XL2 24P frame rate shooters say, "No dude,
you've gotta get FCStudio!" then I'd go that route.
Thanks again for any input.
P.S. I'd like to give a shout out to DaddyPaycheck who posted a comment once upon a time re
using a Canon GL model for tape transfer to computer to minimize wear and tear on his XL2.
Maybe DaddyPaycheck could weigh in with some advice for a beginner who wants to start out on
the right foot. CHEERS

HT200166 I have a Canon XL2 that will not capture video properly in fcp 10, where it does capture properly in fcp6 and 7. How can I "fix" fcp 10 to do this correctly?

My Canon XL2 (1394/firewire 400) will not capture correctly in fcp10, but it did when I had fcp 7 on the same computer. Is there a software fix that will allow me to use the XL2 with this program?

I just want to get this clear.
With FCP 7 and earlier you could capture a whole tape in one continuous 60 minute long clip.
FCP X cannot do that. It is designed to split the tape into its individual clips, however long they may be.
Are you saying that when you try to capture clips of 10 seconds or so, it only captures the first 4 seconds?
All I can suggest is that you trash the preferences with this free app.
Many weird things happen as a result of corrupt preferences which can create a vast range of different symptoms, so whenever FCP X stops working properly in any way, trashing the preferences should be the first thing you do using this free app.
http://www.digitalrebellion.com/prefman/
Shut down FCP X, open PreferenceManager and in the window that appears:-
1. Ensure that only FCP X is selected.
2. Click Trash
The job is done instantly and you can re-open FCP X.
There is absolutely no danger in trashing preferences and you can do it as often as you like.
The preferences are kept separately from FCP X and if there aren't any when FCP X opens it automatically creates new ones . . . instantly.

Canon HV20 24P HDV workflow, Some things with FCP and Quicktime are ODD.

Canon HV20, 24P, HDV, CMOS sensor...
First, I do hope and pray that the FCP dudes are making this work native at HDV 24p -- great!
But until then, there's a workflow (see below) and a real oddity I can't figure out, and if anyone has any thoughts about it that would be great.
Sometimes, the image captured/shown/exported is a lighter picture, and other capture/playing/export methods are darker picture. Example: the captured 60i from Final Cut Pro has a light gamma picture when viewed in Quicktime Player.
But playback in Final Cut Pro appears darker, and rich. But then exporting it out turns it light again, but export out to a MPEG-2 DVD is darker again? ODD.
Can anyone explain the FCP capture size of 1888 x 1062?
Anyhow, here is some workflow success that I had.
Capturing in Final Cut Pro using the HDV 1080/60i setting with HDV firewire basic NDF. But 60i is evil. So that's not enough. Got to get it to 24P,since that allows 20% more bandwidth, space, faster renders, and DVD players can play it.
Transcoding to a regular editing codec before converting to 24P is required. I found that MPEG Streamclip would create a wierd, jagged edges on small moving figures with high contrast, no matter what the settings, so I refuse to use it to export the footage.
So instead, FCP has an additional capture option of "Apple Intermediate Codec" or something like that, which transcribes it on the fly to AIC. I always stayed away from AIC like the plague, but they must have spent some time with it because it's nearly identical to the HDV original.
Next, open up in Quicktime Player, and start the clip on that second P frame. Sounds odd, I know. Goto the first interlaced frame, and back up two frames. Mark the "I", and then move that Out marker to the end, and then Trim the clip to the selection. Do that with all the clips, and then you can batch 24P them all.
If you don't want to find that one frame each time, here are the other settings:
First, open up the clip inside cinema tools, and then select Rev. Telecine button.
Find out which of these your clip is doing at the very beginning:
p-p-i-i-p - aa
p-i-i-p-p - bb
i-p-p-p-i - bc
p-p-p-i-i - cd
i-i-p-p-p - this is no good. must remove at least one frame from the beginning of source file
i = interlaced frame
p = progressive frame
all settings use the F1-F2, style one, standard upper/lower

Sometimes, the image captured/shown/exported is a lighter picture, and other capture/playing/export methods are darker picture. Example: the captured 60i from Final Cut Pro has a light gamma picture when viewed in Quicktime Player.
But playback in Final Cut Pro appears darker, and rich. But then exporting it out turns it light again, but export out to a MPEG-2 DVD is darker again? ODD.
This is known. This happens with ANY footage you look at in FCP and QT player. QT lightens the gamma of the footage. Why? Something to do with adjusting the image for computer monitors.
Shane

Hi using FCP 4.3 and need it to be in 16x9 using a Canon xl2 please please please help

Hi I'm using FCP 4.3 with a Canon XL2 and need to import it 16X9 the way it was shot....anaphormic did not work out and don't know what else to do.....

Please ask your question on the Final Cut Studio forum.

XL2, 16:9, 24fps and FCP

Canon XL2, 16:9, 24fps and FCP
the above pretty much says it all...
i have changed the sequence presets to match but i can not change the capture presets to 24fps... i'm worried when i load the footage it will not render 16:9, 24fps...do i not worry about this during the load and edit but only when i'm ready to export?
alex

Your footage is not on tape at 24fps. It is 29.97 footage. 24 with a 3/2 pulldown inserted. If you feel the need to edit in 24 (or 23.98) - like if you're only going to DVD or web or film - you can do a 23.98 sequence after you've removed the pulldown. This can be done on the fly as you capture if you've shot 24PA. If you shot 24P, you can remove the pulldown in Cinema tools.
If you are going back to tape or broadcast, keep it at 29.97 and edit normally...
Patrick

Canon XL2 and Macbook Pro

hello everybody, I was wondering if anybody out there owns a Canon XL2 and a macbook pro, I was wondering if these two products are compatable together. Can you connect the camera to the notebook and edit it with Final Cut studio. Thanks.

Yes they are compatible together. You can even record in 24p and extract the 24 frames using cinema tools for real 24p editing (for possible film transfer of your movie). Or just capture your 24p content to regular dv NTSC 30fps and get the film look/movement. There are issues with FCP with an XL2 connected to MBP and another external device such as HD or Decks( it happened to me both MBP and 3 G5's, but hopefully yours wont). Sometimes FCP wont resume its start up until you unplug the external device. If thats the case just capture using the MBP's HD, unplug the XL2 after capture and transfer the footage to external HD.

Capture settings for Canon XL2 shot in: 16:9 24p 2:3:3:2

I just boght the XL2 and FCP, and need to capture a four hour interview I shot today in 16:9 24p 2:3:3:2. I just don't know how to set up the capture settings correctly.
Thanks guys,
Wes
iMac G5 Mac OS X (10.4.7) 2.0 GHz, 400Gb Hard Drive, 2Gb Ram, 250Gb External

Well, 2:3:#:2 pulldown refers to the way your camera flags the frames while they're recorded, in other words there's not real 24P recording while using tape, because video runs @ 29.97fps ,(what the camera does is to tell to your editing machine that it has to spread the 1st frame over the two first fields the second frame over the next three fields the third frame again over three fields and so on, from there it why it's call 2:3:3:2 pulldown) so in fact to capture true 24P for editing you have to remove the pulldown and remember,if you later are going to edit to tape you'll have to re-apply the pulldown so it prints well to a 29.97 device.
Hope I was clear enough

What Compressor codec should I use for footage recorded on a Canon T3i, edited on FCP 6, and intended for Vimeo?

I am looking for help!
My planned workflow is as follows:
Footage recorded on Canon Rebel T3i ---> Edited on Final Cut Pro 6 (sequence compression is apparently H.264 according to the browser) ---> Compressed with Compressor (ver 3.0.5) in original 1920 x 1080, 24p format ---> Uploaded to Vimeo
I am now at the point where I am trying to find a Compressor setting that will create a compressed movie that looks somewhat similar to what I see in the canvas in Final Cut Pro 6. I have tried using the H.264, Apple ProRes 422(HQ), HD Uncompressed 8-bit, and XDCAM HD 1080p24 settings and in all cases, my movie plays back fine, however, the brightness/exposure seems to be hiked up a few stops and there is a substantial amount of noise in both the blacks and midtones that doesn't appear in FCP's canvas.
My compressed movie I wish to export is only intended for Vimeo (similar to Youtube). Is there a different setting I should be trying, or perhaps a way of downloading a more effective or current codec?? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated as it is very disappointing to see my movie degraded so much from its orginal quality.
Shaun M

H.264. But the FCP Legacy (FCP 7 and earlier) Canvas and Viewer aren't color accurate. Not designed to be. Their purpose is to show you what you are doing, show you the footage so you can make editing decisions. For color accuracy, the ideal way, since this was designed with television and feature editing in mind, is to have an IO device like those AJA.com and DECKLINK.com make, and send the signal to an HDTV or broadcast monitor.
Apple has realized that more and more people are editing for the web and computers only, so they made it so that FCX's viewer IS color accurate. So...what that means is that currently, using what you have, you won't get things to match....they aren't designed to. So you can adjust for what happens when you export.
But a big issue is that you are editing H.264 in FCP native. FCP doesn't work with H.264 native well, all sorts of potential issues can arise. Sync issues, quality issues, the correct shot be exported, all sorts of things. FCP works best with the FCP editing codecs. What are they? They are found in the EASY SETUP list. But for HD, the most commonly used option is ProRes 422. There is a BIG problem that FCP Legacy will SEEM like it'll work with H.264 natively just fine...it doens't throw up any warnings. That is bad. Also something Apple fixed with FCX.
The fact that you are editing H.264, and trying to export H.264, might also lead to the footage being more off that it would if you edited ProREs 422, and exported H.264. Note...H.264 is a higher data rate codec, and easier for FCP to work with...but because it has a higher data rate, the file sizes are much higher than the original H.264. 5-6x larger. FCP 7 did have a way to import Canon 5D, 7D and T2i (needed a hack with the T2i) via Log and Transfer. But it doesn't work with the T3i...not even with that hack. Because FCP 7 was no longer updated after the T3i came out. It's 4 year old software, discontinued 2 years ago.
If you want to edit native, you need to look at Adobe Premiere Pro CC. It's interface is more accurate too.

Capturing 24p from Canon xl2 help please

Hi everyone, just looking for some help here. I should have known better abotu all this 24p stuff but want to make sure I get it right. K, I shot some footage on my XL2 at 24p and 2:3. Isn't 2:3:3:2 or Advanced mode only for if you shoot something that you are going to transfer to film. If you weren't to transfer would it have any benefits in the digital world???
Anyways, as for me, I just shot 24p standard. I capture as just DV NTSC 48 KHZ. However, I never thought of going through the easy setup and saw there was a 24p setting. However doesn't that one still just capture at 29.97. Anyways, so my timeline is set at 29.97, is this right or should it be at 24/23.98.
Also, can anyone tell me if a guy should ever play around with the feild dominance stuff. I have never but was just wondering if someone can shed a bit of light on that. Thanks.
Nathan

24p (3:2) already HAS a pulldown on it. Pulldown refers to the process of adding frames by pulling down half the field of one frame and other half of fields from the next frame adding a NEW frame. So, just to keep you straight... you need to REMOVE the pulldown, cadence or pulldown cadence (all the same.)
WARNING... 1) don't attempt if you are short of time 2) have the fear of failing 3) don't have your original material 4) don't have a FULL case of beer 5) NEED this project done right! 6) any number of things I forgot!!
SO... if you've already edited some of this there is no good way to convert what is already edited into a 23.98 sequence. So you'd have to start again.
IF you choose to proceed...
Copy and duplicate all of the material you captured just incase you mess something up.
Open Cinema Tools
Cancel out of the first (database) dialog box
File - Open... first clip
This will open a box with your video in it. Toggle thru the video. You'll see PPCCP (progressive/combined (combined frames will look interlaced)) for every 5 frames. The first C-frame is the BC combination of fields. You'll need to park your playhead on the first of the two C-frames in a group. Then, when you reverse telecine you'll mark the BC option and hit go.
Try it once and see if it works for you. You'll get the new movie open and as you frame thru each frame you shouldn't see any C-frames... they will all be progressive.
Now... open a new FCP project and import those reverse-telecined clips and start editing in 23.98 timeline/sequence.
If you ran into a problem, just duplicate the original clip back again and try again. I may have missed an important step... doing it off the top of my head.
As for shooting 24pA now... well... as I stated before... this can be less stable. The cadence is harder to add for the camera and any ANY oddity in shooting will throw off the cadence and give you a HUGE headache trying to capture it.
Don't EVER turn off your camera while recording
Don't EVER review your material and then continue shooting
Don't EVER change any setup on your camera at ANY time that might switch it to 24p even for a second
Don't EVER take the tape out.
That said you shouldn't have any problems!! Use the DV/NTSC 2:3:3:2 Cadence Removal preset for capture and your clips will indeed be 23.98 in the browser.
Good luck... don't panic.
CaptM

Encoding 24p footage - field order question? Should i set to none? Canon XL2

This will be for YouTube. I shot footage on (true) 24p on a canon xl2. Captured in in Premiere in a 29.97 project and removed the pulldown. I'm confused about the field order settings in media encoder. Should this setting be set to 'None' (off)?

Yes, encode to progressive.

Can you capture while shooting with canon XL2 in fcp on Macbook pro

Is there a way to capture or record directly onto macbook pro hd thru final cut pro, or thru log and capture window while shooting with Canon XL2.
If yes, how, please!
Thanks,
Zia

As usual, Jim is correct. There's a reasonable possibility that something could go wrong with the capture; without a tape backup you would be hosed.
Here's what I do for live multi-camera recording (it works as well for single camera setups):
• Connect all cameras to a video switcher/DVE
• Connect the switcher's output to a DVCam VTR
• Connect all audio sources to an audio mixer
• Connect the audio mixer's output to the same DVCam VTR
• Connect the DVCam's Firewire output to my Mac
With this set up I can switch/mix live between cameras while recording to the VTR and simultaneously to the Mac in FCP.
Not only do I end up with the live mix recorded to tape and captured in FCP, I also run 'safety' tapes in each camera for additional backup in case the TD (me) makes an error.
-DH

Canon XL2 24p and FCP

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