Color grading inside FCP using Lab color space? Any plugins?

Hi guys,
Is it possible to color grade footage with Lab color space? I don't think Apple Color supports Lab so I'm hoping there's some other way. Are there any plugins that allow you to do that? If there are no plugins, are there any color grading apps you'd recommend that support Lab?
Thanks for any tips!
Nick

Why use LAB if it doesn't end up in LAB colour space?
I get the comment by a lot of people who don't understand what LAB is
It is kind of like saying how can a print designer do work on a computer monitor when the printed material ends up on paper as cmyk.
Basically you use LAB because you can do things in LAB that you can't do when Editing in CMYK or RGB. (Note Editing - you convert to RGB or CMYK after.)
The main advantage of it as a Tool is that is treats Tone / Luminance (L) independent to colour.
You can ramp up curves without blowing out the image or shifting the colour.
or vice versa you can change the colour without changing the tone.
You can't do this with CMYK or RGB because the tone of the image, the luminance, is embedded into the colour channels.
And you can REALLY ramp things up and still get great looking images.
That makes LAB a great grading tool - for a look that would be unavailable if Editing in CMYK or RGB.
We have print graders using LAB for work that ends up printed as CMYK,
I use LAB for online work that ends up as RGB - in a professional advertising agency.
By device independent I mean that it is at a level higher than CMYK or RGB.
It is not relying on the output device - a monitor, tv screen or printer - to define how the colour is created.
You can do you work in LAB then export it out to CMYK & RGB with very little loss as LAB encompasses both colour spaces and far far more.
That is what makes LAB a powerful colour space.

Similar Messages

Embedded RGB color space

My Sony DSC R1 embeds RGB color space and when I open the image it opens as an RGB image in PSE3.
However, when I check the EXIF data it shows uncalibrated color space.
If I shoot in sRGB embedded color space, the EXIF data shows sRGB and it opens in PSE3 as an sRGB image.
Any thought as to why EXIF data shows uncalibrated?
Thanks
Richard

As an addendum to the "older " information from Ian Lyons' site ( this was a Photoshop 7 reference ), the newer EXIF spec ( I think 2.2 ) supports AdobeRGB as a third choice . Obviously, both the camera and software have to support this third choice, or the user reverts to "sRGB or untagged " , per Juergen's note in the EXIF colorspace field.
Brent
[edit] This is apparently how the issue is handled
"Exif 2.21 Metadata and Adobe Color Space
There is no need to worry about color space any longer. The EOS 20D complies with DCF 2.0, revised to support Adobe RGB, and Exif 2.21. Images taken in Adobe RGB will have the Adobe RGB color space information, not the ICC profile, appended to the Exif information. (If Adobe RGB is selected from the 20D digital camera's Color Space menu, all processing parameters are available.) Therefore, applications and devices compatible with DCF 2.0 and Exif 2.21 will be able to handle Adobe RGB in the same way as sRGB. When software compatible with Exif 2.21 is used, images captured with the EOS 20D will open automatically in the Adobe RGB color space. When a printer that complies with Exif 2.21 is used, the printer will adjust the color saturation of the print suitably."

Color space for picture to use in FCP or DVDSP ???

I'm using 720x480 TIFF file from Photoshop to import in FCP, should I use Adobe RGB 1998 for the color space ? What about DVDSP ? The same ?
Merci,
Jean

720x480 is important. DPI doesn't matter.
Patrick

I am using PS cs6 and lightroom and I am having a hard time know what color space to choose. The lab that I am using told me that their color space is sRGB. Do I need to have both PS and Lightroom set at sRGB or should I have PS set at adobe RGB and jus

I am using PS cs6 and lightroom and I am having a hard time know what color space to choose. The lab that I am using told me that their color space is sRGB. Do I need to have both PS and Lightroom set at sRGB or should I have PS set at adobe RGB and just set my export from lightroom as sRGB?

Please post in the Photoshop forum.
http://forums.adobe.com/community/photoshop
Bob

Using 'color space suite'/ColorServicesProc

Hi,
I wrote a custom color picker plugin for Photoshop CS3. Now I have to extend it's functionality.
To do this I need to convert the input color (whatever color space) to RGB.
I'v tried the 'HostCSConvertColor' from the PIUtilities but it gave me wrong result RGB.
I selected sRGB IEC61966-2.1 for my monitor.
I selected Lab = (54,0,0) color for foreground color which is RGB(129,129, 129).
The HostCSConvertColor converts it into RGB = (0, 55, 222)
Is there a sample or some documentation using the color space suite properly and/or ColorServicesProc ?
Thanks,
TZolee

When the picker invoked by PS it gets the initial color from PS in Lab space (PIPickerParams->pickParms).
I just use that colorComponents without any modifications to call the HostCSConvertColor (just copied to a temporary place).
Yes I know that the Lab color values signed. I took a deep research before I wrote this plugin.
I've already read the documentation.
I've already tested ~20 Lab color and the HostCSConvertColor was always wrong.

Which color space to save still images for FCP?

When saving still images as TIFF files to be brought into FCP, what color space should the files be saved in? The Adobe color space or SRGB, or other?
Thanks.

sRGB/JPEG is the best because all the color information is encoded in the actual image when you create a JPEG, as JPEGs don't carry color space information with them, like .PSD and .TIFF do.
As for sRGB, that is as close as there is to a universal color space for monitors, and you are least likely to find a surprise when you check across many monitors. The tradeoff is a reduced color gamut if you display on a well calibrated broad gamut monitor.
The gamma matters all the way through, if you want what you see in Photoshop to match what you see on a calibrated display monitor. The newest Photoshop, and Lightroom, use a native gamma of 2.2, which matches all video displays (not computer displays). If you generate JPEGs from them, they will have a gamma of 2.2. You then need to import them into FCP with a gamma of 2.2 for the interpretation. If you go directly to DVD from there, all is fine. If you go to a Quicktime movie, you need to know what the codec you plan to use will do. ProRes maintains the existing gamma, H.264 lightens up to 1.8, as does animation. I haven't characterized the others.

Is LAB the "native color space" for ID?

Is it correct to say that LAB is the "native color space" for InDesign? That colors specified in RGB that need to be translated into CMYK will go through LAB along the way, and vice versa?

No, LAB is not the native color space of InDesign. InDesign does not have a native color space.
However, all color conversions between color spaces is done via ACE, the Adobe Color Engine, a component of Adobe's Core Technology, using ICC color management techniques. All conversions between color spaces are made first to a connection color space and then to the target color space. LAB is pretty much what that connection color space is.
- Dov

Why does Lightroom (and Photoshop) use AdobeRGB and/or ProPhoto RGB as default color spaces, when most monitors are standard gamut (sRGB) and cannot display the benefits of those wider gamuts?

I've asked this in a couple other places online as I try to wrap my head around color management, but the answer continues to elude me. That, or I've had it explained and I just didn't comprehend. So I continue. My confusion is this: everywhere it seems, experts and gurus and teachers and generally good, kind people of knowledge claim the benefits (in most instances, though not all) of working in AdobeRGB and ProPhoto RGB. And yet nobody seems to mention that the majority of people - including presumably many of those championing the wider gamut color spaces - are working on standard gamut displays. And to my mind, this is a huge oversight. What it means is, at best, those working this way are seeing nothing different than photos edited/output in sRGB, because [fortunately] the photos they took didn't include colors that exceeded sRGB's real estate. But at worst, they're editing blind, and probably messing up their work. That landscape they shot with all those lush greens that sRGB can't handle? Well, if they're working in AdobeRGB on a standard gamut display, they can't see those greens either. So, as I understand it, the color managed software is going to algorithmically reign in that wild green and bring it down to sRGB's turf (and this I believe is where relative and perceptual rendering intents come into play), and give them the best approximation, within the display's gamut capabilities. But now this person is editing thinking they're in AdobeRGB, thinking that green is AdobeRGB's green, but it's not. So any changes they make to this image, they're making to an image that's displaying to their eyes as sRGB, even if the color space is, technically, AdobeRGB. So they save, output this image as an AdobeRGB file, unaware that [they] altered it seeing inaccurate color. The person who opens this file on a wide gamut monitor, in the appropriate (wide gamut) color space, is now going to see this image "accurately" for the first time. Only it was edited by someone who hadn't seen it accurately. So who know what it looks like. And if the person who edited it is there, they'd be like, "wait, that's not what I sent you!"
Am I wrong? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. I shoot everything RAW, and I someday would love to see these photos opened up in a nice, big color space. And since they're RAW, I will, and probably not too far in the future. But right now I export everything to sRGB, because - internet standards aside - I don't know anybody who I'd share my photos with, who has a wide gamut monitor. I mean, as far as I know, most standard gamut monitors can't even display 100% sRGB! I just bought a really nice QHD display marketed toward design and photography professionals, and I don't think it's 100. I thought of getting the wide gamut version, but was advised to stay away because so much of my day-to-day usage would be with things that didn't utilize those gamuts, and generally speaking, my colors would be off. So I went with the standard gamut, like 99% of everybody else.
So what should I do? As it is, I have my Photoshop color space set to sRGB. I just read that Lightroom as its default uses ProPhoto in the Develop module, and AdobeRGB in the Library (for previews and such).
Thanks for any help!
Michael

Okay. Going bigger is better, do so when you can (in 16-bit). Darn, those TIFs are big though. So, ideally, one really doesn't want to take the picture to Photoshop until one has to, right? Because as long as it's in LR, it's going to be a comparatively small file (a dozen or two MBs vs say 150 as a TIF). And doesn't LR's develop module use the same 'engine' or something, as ACR plug-in? So if your adjustments are basic, able to be done in either LR Develop, or PS ACR, all things being equal, choose to stay in LR?
ssprengel Apr 28, 2015 9:40 PM
PS RGB Workspace: ProPhotoRGB and I convert any 8-bit documents to 16-bit before doing any adjustments.
Why does one convert 8-bit pics to 16-bit? Not sure if this is an apt comparison, but it seems to me that that's kind of like upscaling, in video. Which I've always taken to mean adding redundant information to a file so that it 'fits' the larger canvas, but to no material improvement. In the case of video, I think I'd rather watch a 1080p movie on an HD (1080) screen (here I go again with my pixel-to-pixel prejudice), than watch a 1080p movie on a 4K TV, upscaled. But I'm ready to be wrong here, too. Maybe there would be no discernible difference? Maybe even though the source material were 1080p, I could still sit closer to the 4K TV, because of the smaller and more densely packed array of pixels. Or maybe I only get that benefit when it's a 4K picture on a 4K screen? Anyway, this is probably a different can of worms. I'm assuming that in the case of photo editing, converting from 8 to 16-bit allows one more room to work before bad things start to happen?
I'm recent to Lightroom and still in the process of organizing from Aperture. Being forced to "this is your life" through all the years (I don't recommend!), I realize probably all of my pictures older than 7 years ago are jpeg, and probably low-fi at that. I'm wondering how I should handle them, if and when I do. I'm noting your settings, ssprengel.
ssprengel Apr 28, 2015 9:40 PM
I save my PS intermediate or final master copy of my work as a 16-bit TIF still in the ProPhotoRGB, and only when I'm ready to share the image do I convert to sRGB then 8-bits, in that order, then do File / Save As: Format=JPG.
Part of the same question, I guess - why convert back to 8-bits? Is it for the recipient? Do some machines not read 16-bit? Something else?
For those of you working in these larger color spaces and not working with a wide gamut display, I'd love to know if there are any reasons you choose not to. Because I guess my biggest concern in all of this has been tied to what we're potentially losing by not seeing the breadth of the color space we work in represented while making value adjustments to our images. Based on what several have said here, it seems that the instances when our displays are unable to represent something as intended are infrequent, and when they do arise, they're usually not extreme.
Simon G E Garrett Apr 29, 2015 4:57 AM
With 8 bits, there are 256 possible values. If you use those 8 bits to cover a wider range of colours, then the difference between two adjacent values - between 100 and 101, say - is a larger difference in colour. With ProPhoto RGB in 8-bits there is a chance that this is visible, so a smooth colour wedge might look like a staircase. Hence ProPhoto RGB files might need to be kept as 16-bit TIFs, which of course are much, much bigger than 8-bit jpegs.
Over the course of my 'studies' I came across a side-by-side comparison of either two color spaces and how they handled value gradations, or 8-bit vs 16-bit in the same color space. One was a very smooth gradient, and the other was more like a series of columns, or as you say, a staircase. Maybe it was comparing sRGB with AdobeRGB, both as 8-bit. And how they handled the same "section" of value change. They're both working with 256 choices, right? So there might be some instances where, in 8-bit, the (numerically) same segment of values is smoother in sRGB than in AdobeRGB, no? Because of the example Simon illustrated above?
Oh, also -- in my Lumix LX100 the options for color space are sRGB or AdobeRGB. Am I correct to say that when I'm shooting RAW, these are irrelevant or ignored? I know there are instances (certain camera effects) where the camera forces the shot as a jpeg, and usually in that instance I believe it will be forced sRGB.
Thanks again. I think it's time to change some settings..

I have a problem with color prints from photoshop elements 12. The pictures are too light and with strange colors. I have a Canon pixma mg615I0 printer and use mac os X yosemite. The pictures are taken with a coanon eos 550d in the color space sRGB. I hav

Hi
I have a problem with color prints from photoshop elements 12. The pictures are too light and with strange colors. I have a Canon pixma mg615I0 printer and use mac os X yosemite. The pictures are taken with a coanon eos 550d in the color space sRGB. I have followed adobes recommendations and have tried both letting the printer respektive photoshop manage the colors. But nothing works. I see that there are different opinions about which is best to do so I tried both. I have the latest printer driver installed. Can anyone help me with this?

Do the following:
Print a test page from the printer. Perhaps the print head needs cleaning via its maintenance facility.
Let the printer manage colors, not PSE
Calibrate the monitor

What size, resolution, color space and bit do I use for a book?

What size, resolution, and color space do I use for a iPhoto book?

At least 150 DPI - actually pixel requirements depend on the print image size (pring image size * 150 will give you the minimum pixel size you need) - size is determined by the book size and theme and page layout you select - color space should be sRGB - minimal editing and using iPhoto for editing produces the best results - for more information see this article
If a photo is the wrong ratio and you can not crop to work in most themes you can right click on the photo and fit to frame
LN

What are the steps to using camera & color space matching on footage with multiple cameras?

Hi there,
I am new to speedgrade, and need to use the Camera and Color Space Matching technique to automatically color correct my sequence which contains footage from multiple cameras. I have watched all the videos on speedgrade on AdobeTV and lynda.com that I can find, but haven't been able to find one that actually shows me how to do so. Can anyone point me to a video/tutorial where I could learn the steps for the process or outline them for me if that is easier?
Thanks!

I'm in the same boat. There is a new 'camera matching' function that premiered at NAB 2013, but when will it be actually available...? As to your original question, look up getting a proper White and Black balances with each camera first. Learn how to work with HSL and RGB values etc, and I think Karl Seoule has some videos that cover this under 'Color Finesse' vids at Adobe TV. Also check out the '3-Way Color Corrector' tuts and "Secondary Color Correction' tuts as well. And finally either on Adobe TV or Creative Cow there is on video that actually talks about matching either 2 shots or 2 cameras as well.
All this is to say here is no easy/simple way. I'm hoping when Adobe introduces the Color Matching in Speed Grade we can just use stills as reference in Speed Grade, develop 'looks' that match the cameras and then apply the looks in Premiere without having to use the huge .dpx files that we have to use in Speed Grade now, but that may just be part of the process.

Color Space Question... using Lagarith Lossless Codec.

Hi all,
I use the Lagarith Lossless Codec for all my source editing files importing into Premiere Pro and for exporting to my encoder I use.
My question is this. I found that most of my sources are in YUV color space, so when I prep them for editing using VirtualDub, etc... I export them to Lagarith Lossless Codec in the YUY2 color space setting. The size difference between using RGB and YUY2 is enough to make me want to just use YUY2. So when editing those prepped files in YUY2 in Premiere Pro and them exporting the in the same YUY2 color space configuration, does it degrade in quality at all? I heard somewhere that Premiere Pro ONLY edits in RGB color space. So am I really messing up here or is it safe to do what I am doing?
Thanks in advance!

Premiere Pro will keep the color space of the original media. And many of the effects can now also operate in YUV space (They are marked by the YUV icon.) However, any effects you use that are not marked with that icon will force an RGB conversion.

When to use ProPhoto RGB color space?

I've read articles recommending to use ProPhoto RGB color space because the color gamut is greater. At the same time, I've had to convert some images I created using ProPhoto RGB templates to sRGB so they will display with the right colors in applications that don't support it. I'm wondering (just curious) when it is appropriate to use this color space. Is it only for professional graphic image designers and photographers who send their images to a professional printer?

in addition to what ssprengel said and some of it may be in other words:
There are several standard profiles listed in a separate section in the menus displaying color profiles when you use Assign Profile, Convert to Profile, and when you choose Working Spaces in the Color Settings. These profiles are so called 'well behaved' or 'editing' color spaces. They are device independent and created synthetically for editing purposes - in these color spaces R=G=B is perfectly neutral gray which makes the numbers of color values make sense when editing images referring to the numbers, histograms, curves, etc. ProPhoto RGB is one of these spaces and have the widest gamut, parts of which exceed the visible spectrum. This allows you to have an image with colors that are not limited to the color gamut of eventual destination color spaces like printers and monitors. That's why some people prefer to use Prophoto RGB for images with destination unknown. When you know the destination, in your case an online printing service, get the color profile used by the printing service, install it on your computer, and use convert (Edit menu > Convert to Profile) from ProPhotoRGB to the color profile of the printer. The color management trys to make the conversion to the best possible color match when the destination color space is with a narrower color gamut and you may see color shift of the colors outside the color gamut of the destination. You can also use soft proof (View > Proof Colors with View > Proof Setup set to the destination profile) to edit (optimize) the colors of your document to the destination before the conversion if you can do better than the color management conversion. It is a good idea to make this on a copy of the original image or different layers dedicated to editing colors for a particular destination (color space).
Also have in mind that the conversion can be done on any other computer with Photoshop provided that along with your image they have the source and destination profile. So it can be done by your printer too but without the printers profile on your computer you wont' be able to proof and edit the final appearance.
If you create or edit your artwork or photos with destination unknown in a color space with a comparatively narrower gamut then when in the future you have the opportunity to use a destination with a wider color space you won't be able to take advantage from all possible colors.

What Rendering intent is used when exporting with a different color space?

Hi,
I would be ever so grateful if any one can tell me what rendering intent is used by LR4 when exporting using a custom colour space as there is not an option as there is with the print module.
Thanks.
Message title was edited by: Brett N

Jeff Schewe wrote:
Bob_Peters wrote:
The rendering intent in the Export dialog is Perceptual.
Actually, an RGB color space to RGB colorspace is always only Relative Colorimetric...and adding Perceptual would only work with certain V4 ICC color spaces (you can find perceptual V4 color spaces for sRGB and ProPhoto I think but I'm not sure they would work in Lightroom anyway).
When using an RGB print output profile you can select either Perceptual or Relative and have the intents actually applied.
True.
The case of interest to me is when I have to print a lot of files using a third-party profile and maintain the original filename so it appears on the back. That is why I made the request more than a year ago.
The problem with the Print module is that it clobbers the filename but does allow 2 choices for the rendering intent. Having to deal with weird filenames creates a mess when matching, say, 50 prints with custom notecards.

How to we success to change effect of color differences(r-y,g-y,b-y) by using lab wiew

we have a problem about changing effect of color differences using lab wiew.
what sould we do

Hello,
I would like to hear a little more information about your application. What are you trying to do with color? Are you matching colors, doing color location, or color pattern matching?
Please let me know.
Thanks,
Morten Jensen
National Instruments

Color grading inside FCP using Lab color space? Any plugins?

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