Conforming SD back to HDV

Hi there everyone,
I have been asked to conform a sequence that was originally shot on HDV and then cut in downconverted DVCAM on a Z1. They want to go back to HDV and therefore we'll have to 'conform' it. I have cut HDV before but havent ever done a conform as Ive only cut at full res prior to this point . I assume that if I have the original project, EDL etc its a matter of recapturing from the source tapes.
It would be great if someone could give me a break down of the work flow to getting the existing SD sequence back to HDV.
Thanks so much in advance.
Will Adams.
G5 Dual Powermac 2.7,Powerbook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.7) 5.5 G. RAM. Dual 23 Cinema Displays.
G5 Dual Powermac 2.7,Powerbook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.7) 5.5 G. RAM. Dual 23 Cinema Displays.

check out this tutorial at Ken Stones website::
http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/offlinert.html
it specifically details how to "up-res" from offlineRT to DV using FCP 3's media manager tool, however its easy to sunstitute your needed info ...
jump ahead to the "onlining the project" section and follow the steps, except you will want to choose "HDV" instead of DV for the online resolution
you'll then use Batch Capture to recapture the sequence footage in HDV
also look at
http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/basic_onliningjordan.html
go through the papers, its all there
cheers
Andy

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Make sure your new HDV sequence matches the aspect ratio of the original footage (ie. Anamorphic sequence for anamorphic footage).
Select all the clips in the timeline.
Right-click.
Remove Attributes.
Check Distort.
Uncheck all others.
You should now see the footage correctly on your monitor.

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Capturing HDV through Firewire

It seems in my Audio/Video settings that I have 2 Capture Preset options. The first is simply 'HDV' and the second is 'HDV Apple Intermediate Codec'.
If you're capturing HDV please share which you prefer. I'm trying to capture 1080i HDV footage.
I searched on the subject here and it didn't give me great results. I also searched the manual .PDF file which only turned out 1 result, explaining no details about it's features.
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Monty

HDV is for capturing the footage (via firewire) to its native HDV codec.
HDV Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC) is for capturing the HDV footage (via firewire) to the Apple Intermediate Codec.
with FCP6.0.2 you can also capture HDV footage (via firewire) to Apple's ProRes codec.
HDV is a heavily compressed MPEG format which means the the data rate is quite low ... the same as DV in fact. Low data rates mean your disc can store more of the footage and it can handle more concurrent streams of that footage, however the down side is that the algorithm for this compression format is complex and consequently very taxing for the computer to manipulate when editing. Not every frame of video is encoded in its entirity, only I-frames, all other frames are stored as predictive data describing how these subsequent frames change as compared to previous of forthcoming I-frames. Its a processor intesive operation editing with this format and that impacts you most when rendering effects and treatments etc as those renders will take longer to process. All that said and done, you shouldn't be unecessarily alarmed, this is all pretty run of the mill for todays computers.
AIC is an "intermediate" codec meaning it is not intended as an acquisition format nor a delivery format, but just as an interim working format ... selecting this means your incoming HDV footage will be transcoded to this intermidate codec as it is captured. AIC is a codec which stores all the data for each frame individually, thereby bypassing those processor heavy calculation caused by the HDV codec, as a consequence there is much more data to be handled so the file sizes are necessarily bigger and your hard disc will need to be able to keep up with the extra data rate needed, especially for multiple concurrent streams.
ProRes, as with AIC, is an intermediate codec. It is considered to offer higher quality than AIC.
It worth noting that when outputting back to HDV tape via firewire, regardless of your edit codec, there is a long render process known as "conforming" which you need to perform first. The conform process re-encodes your edit master to a single media file which conforms to the HDV data stream format.

PRO RES 422 HQ from color to fcp to HDV 1080i tape

Have just thrown myself off a bridge due to frustration. Filmed a holiday movie a few years ago on HDV Pal and taught myself color on the project after completing it on FCP. I have spent 3 months of my spare time getting it looking how I want it and have just sent it back to FCP for outputting. Everything hunky dory so far except when I came to print to video (back to HDV for archiving) I'm being told that I can't print that seq to tape. Presumably because PRO RES 422 won't go to HDV. Is that so and do I have any answers?

For having just thrown yourself off a bridge, your grammar, spelling, and punctuation are impeccable.
You are correct. A ProRes sequence will not go to HDV. You must place your ProRes sequence into a new HDV sequence, render/conform, and print that to HDV tape.
When you're going out via firewire, you pretty much have to match your sequence settings to your deck settings, DV>DV, HDV>HDV. Hardware capture cards/boxes by AJA & Blackmagic can up/down/cross convert on the fly, but not a direct firewire connection.
So, use your ProRes sequence to create the DVD, and create an HDV sequence to archive it to a tape.
And stop throwing yourself off bridges.

HDV and Pro Res

Quick question...
Is the quality of a HDV clip that was captured via firewire as ProRes...better or the same quality....of a clip that was captured as HDV and then media managed Recompressed to ProRes?

No, that's not the same thing. There will be some loss of quality, probably very minor, but that is not the same as media managing the original media or using Compressor to recompress it. HDV has to be conformed for output and that will happen before the material is exported. Why capture using ProRes? So that your compositing uses a higher resolution, higher quality codec, and so that your program does not have to be reconformed for output, and so that any rendering will render quicker. The only reason to stay in HDV is if you need to go back to HDV tape.

Can't Conform 24 to 29.97fps!

Hi.
I'm trying to conform a clip using cinema tools. The video format is HDV 720p24 and I want to conform to 29.97fps but cinema tools
don't allow me to do it ( the button conform is not active.) What's wrong?
thx

Cinema Tools cannot conform GOP formats like HDV. Because there aren't any real frames. You need to convert the footage to ProRes first, then conform.
You do know that if you conform from 24 to 29.97, that will speed up the footage, right? This isn't a frame rate conversion, where the footage will play back at the same speed (1 second is 1 second, but at a different rate), but rather conform the footage...keeping the same frames but changing the rate. So 24 frames that was 1 second, is now 24 frames, but LESS than a second...as your second will now be 30 frames long. It will play faster.

Using and LCD TV as a monitor for HDV editing

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Can I use the LCD TV as a second monitor and do playback as Cinema Desktop Preview to second monitor? I've also seen a DVI - HDMI cable. Will that work? Any help would be great!
Thanks,
Mike

What format is the media in when you capture it?
Whatever you choose to capture it. You can capture it as HDV via firewire, or ProRes via firewire. Or you can use this card and choose one of the options it gives you...such as ProRes, DVCPRO HD, uncompressed HD...whatever you want, and your hardware can support.
I'm assuming it's no longer HDV.
Only if you don't capture it as HDV. You can still do that and then output via this card to some other format. Or you can capture as HDV, render to ProRes (in the sequence settings under RENDER CONTROL).
Is it uncompressed HD?
If you choose that.
Is there an Easy Setup for this?
Yup.
What codec does it use?
Whatever it lists in the Easy Setups...the ones I listed above.
They also state that you can use it for DV. I'm guessing that means if you have DV material and a device that outputs HDMI you have uncompressed SD?
First off, HDMI is an HD signal, not SD. BUT, you can use the card to output your DV timeline to your HDTV. You cannot output to an SD deck, as no SD decks have HDMI.
If you can import HDV via HDMI and you bypass the HDV codec and get full 1920 (as they say on their website)
Yup..you can capture as ProRes or Uncompressed, and get full 1080. BUT, this doesn't increase the resolution of your footage. It just means that it will render to a better codec with more color space...better manipulation of the image that HDV.
then I'm also guessing that you cannot go back to HDV.
Not via firewire. But if the deck had Component inputs, or HDMI...maybe.
Shane

In an HDV sequence can I "scrub" the timeline and record it via FW to tape?

In an HDV sequence can I "scrub" the timeline and record it via FW to tape?
In standard definition I used to be able to do this via Firewire to my mini-dv deck. But now I am working with the Canon Vixia30, an HDV camera. I'd like to be able to scrub the time line back and forth at varying speeds and record this scrubbing live (rather than doing it with Motion software.) Is there anyway to "record" this action, either onto tape or digitally, while maintaining the HD resolution?
If possible I'd like to figure out how to do this without buying extra equipment. I understand I could get a Matrox MO2 Mini box ($450.) to output the live HD signal, but then how to record the HD signal from the Matrox box? (my camera only has HDMI out, not in.)
Thank you for your input.

And if you capture your footage as ProRes (as I see discussed in another thread), you cannot output to HDV via firewire. It would be pointless. To go from a lossy format to ProRes to edit...then convert back to HDV. Typically people who shoot HDv never master back to HDV, as it isn't a mastering format.
And yes, the MAX is totally worth it. Compression times faster than RT (meaning less time to compress than the timeline is long...I did 90 min timeline in 75 min yesterday). Worth it? Depends how much your time is worth. TO me, I'd like to have the compression done in 75 minutes opposed to 3-4 hours.
Shane

OCR Capture not working - Case Number:0186493066 - Still have not heard back

Your Case Number:0186493066
On March 30th I spent over 3 hours on two separate chats and screen shares with your tech team trying to fix the OCR problem. I was told my case was being elevated and I would hear back. It has been 8 days and I have not heard anything. If you read the notes on my file you will see I originally had Acrobat 9 Pro and updated to 11 Pro in order to get my OCR working properly. Since it was downloaded it has not worked. Two separate techs have tried several things some duplicate and have not been able to get it running. Please contact me asap to get this fixed.
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Shraha MUller: still unable to locate the Paper Capture recognition service
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Shraha MUller: ok
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As you can see the name on our account was wrong and has been fixed several times. hopefully it is corrected now as well.
Thank you
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nope I'm not saying that at all. I was delicately trying to suggest that you may have been mistaken, and that the audio preview in HDV log & capture was never there, not even before.
Audio Preview is a feature of the non HDV Log & Capture window
... try it. change your Easy Setup to DV/DVCPRO NTSC and then open Log & Capture . look familiar? this is the standard L&C tool and does indeed feature a Preview checkbox, for Audio, in the Clip Settings tab. now close the L&C window and then change your Easy Setup back to HDV, open up L&C again ... the Preview checkbox is not there ... my contention (although I may well be wrong!) is that it never was.

HDV Print to Video

Have read all threads for the last year on this, and have not been able to Print to Video. It starts fine, transfers via FW to my Sony FX-1. After about 2-4 min. it starts freezing for a split second, then jumps forward, only to freeze again every few seconds. If I have mirror on desktop on, the video on the desktop does NOT freeze, but plays normal. I have no problems capturing hdv video. Here is a list of the things I have tried.
1. Deleted FCP preferences, and rebooted.
2. Shut off energy saver and screen saver.
3. Tried both FW connections and disconnected ALL other FW (400 & 800) devices.
4. Tried different FW cables and 3 different cameras.
5. Exported the project out as a single QT HDV file and imported that to the timeline.
6. Mixdown audio. The timeline and all setting are 1440x1080 hdv & 1080i60.
7. The single QT HDV file is saved on an internal SATA drive with >200 GBs free, not with FCP, OSX
I would be willing to try any suggestions. Thanks for any help.

About the only thing left to do is a total rebuild of your startup disk I'd think... HDV isn't my favorite format... but if you HAVE To print back to tape, you've not much of a choice than to edit with it natively. Hey, if you've not done this in a while, it's time to do so in any event. I do it at least every few months with my own systems, and also at the school I teach at part time, there's about 70 FCP stations. We do it every semester and it serves us extremely well. Stable systems each with about 10 or so Users on each... no crashing, and all works as advertised.
FWIW... few need to record back to HDV for any reason... It's not a deliverable format for broadcast in most all instances, and it was intended to be a consumer format... see the original press release from Sony on this years ago... so running it in a Pro NLE like FCP isn't going to be a flawless thing. I'll wager that iMovie does it better! (Though I've never tried it myself) Most pros deliver HDCAM if going to broadcast, and we don't edit HDV natively. Instead, we capture it as ProRes, then use a card like a Kona 3 or an IoHD to turn it into uncompressed HD for delivery.
If after a totally clean installation of the system startup disk still prevents you to print to video with HDV, I'd suggest you fill out a feedback form in the FCP menu. Apple's FCP team reads and logs every single one of these I'm quite sure. They don't read these forums in fact much. They are for user to user discussion.
Hope this helps you.
Jerry

Can you downcovert HDV footage to SD without camera?

Hi,
I am editing an HDV project that I need to downconvert to SD for a DVD. The project was shot and edited in HDV.
What is the best, simplest way to downcovert my project to SD? Can I do it without the camera? Is it possible just to cut and paste the timeline into a DV timeline and then export?
I am new to downcoverting. Any suggestions would help.
Thanks,
Clay
Powerbook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.4)

In my HDV experience, I've found the best way to down
convert is to have the camera/deck do it. The
hardware conversion in the camera/deck provides the
best results, at least in the limited testing I've
done. So, export the finished project back out to the
camera, then set up the camera to export DV and set
FCP to a DV preset and recapture. I've found these
results to be better than SW solutions. However, I'm
assuming you still have access to the camera.
This idea sounds good.
So basically you're saying I can print to video my finished product back to HDV tape. The import this as DV. Is it a setting on my camera? I assume so.
I am seeing...
i.Link Conv - HDV to DV
and
Down Convert - Sqeeze, Letter Box, Edge Crop
I want the 16x9 footage to the letter boxed to fit the 4x3 720x480 frame so I assuming i'll choose Letter Box.
I am brand new to this as you can tell so any help is appreciated, even if it seems understood and redundant.
Thanks,
Clay

Did I just screw myself? HDV Questions....

Hi guys,
I just recently purchased 2 Sony HDR-HC1. My wife and I are event videographers and planned on preparing for the future and getting HDV cams since we needed new ones anyways. My questions follow:
1) If I record in HD, how easy is it going to be able to downconvert to standard def for people without HD-DVD players and HD TVs? Is this done during the pature process? Is it done within FCP? Compressor?
2) If I'm recording in HD and edit in HD, do I just simpley send the project to compressor, treat it like any project (including regular DVDs if it will fit!) and it should work on a HD-DVD player? I mean, Blue Ray/HD-DVD is only media with high data capacity, right?

I have been happily using my Sony FZ1 and HC1 for around a year to produce DV projects. To my eye, the footage that I get now is way better when compared to what my old VX-2000 captured. I'll admit it took me awhile to get my setup right, so I hope my thoughts will help you get to work quickly.
I use the downconvert function of the camera to capture HDV aquired footage into a "DV Anamorphic" sequence. An important thing to remember is to set the camera to downconvert via the "squeeze" option found in the cameras "IN/OUT REC" menu setting. You will then have 16x9 footage that will fill a widescreen tv, and play with a letterbox on 4x3 sets. (You are basically simulating the same capture process that will result from using an anamorphic lens on a 4x3 camera, but the footage is actually much better quality than I was ever able to get on any 4x3 camera I have used in the past.) If you don't understand this process, look at this link from Apple.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75079
I found that the only way to efficiently view 16x9 footage from the FCP timeline was with a widescreen aspect ratio compatible TV monitor, so if you still only have a 4x3 set that you use for checking your footage while editing, you have two choices. You can upgrade to a 16x9 Broadcast monitor, or you can drop your 16x9 FCP sequence into a 4x3 sequence and render it before you watch. (I did the latter method for awhile, but it gets really tedious.)
As for making a DVD, you export your 16x9 footage from FCP, then import it into DVD Studio Pro or iDVD or whatever you use. I use DVD Studio Pro, and the trick is to make sure that your 16x9 menus and tracks are set to display as "16x9 letterbox". Make sure you also set your Simulator to display properly as well. (This is a good chance to verify that your footage displays correctly on both 4x3 and 16x9 TVs before you burn the disc.)
If you edit your projects in HDV, you can export it to Compressor or Quicktime using a 16x9 DV setting and then import it into your DVD program, but expect it to take awhile. In my opinion, there is no advantage to editing in HDV unless you know that you will be exporting to a high-end format. As you mentioned, there are no viable HD-DVD options yet anyway.
My experience with editing native HDV footage was fine, other than longer render times and the fact that I don't have a HD monitor. I did however, experiment with recapturing DV converted footage back to HDV, and it went surprisingly smoothly. If you already have a bunch of footage captured as HDV and you want to go back to 16x9 DV, I can give you some tips, or you can search this forum for the process.
Hope this helps you out, I expect others will respond with some good info for you as well.
Dual G5 2.0, Dual 23" Cinema Displays, 2.5 GB RAM Mac OS X (10.4.4) FCP 5.0.4

Pro Res v HDV v SD comparison test

Just incase anyone is interested, I have just completed a comparison test for checking the processing times for converting HDV footage into SD (ready for authoring). Having read up on the forum,the options of keeping things in native HDV , converting to 422 or downconverting to SD at the start, I thought I would try a like for like test and see how it came out, both from a processing time and quality viewpoint. (this is only my test, so please don't hammer me if you don't agree, I am only trying to share this basic test.
Exactly 1 minute of footage was filmed on Sony Z1 as HDV
The footage contained a mixture of static, and slow pan shots, to make it a bit challenging.
Option 1 - Capture and edit using Pro Res 422
Option 2 - Capture and edit using native HDV
Option 3 - Down convert from HDV to SD via the camera, edit in SD anamorphic (don't groan just yet)
All clips had the exact same transitions and filters applied
These were 2 x cross dissolves, 1x 3way colour corrected clip, 1 x speed modification clip.
All processed on a new MBP 2.53 with all settings left as default (hopefully a fair representation for many)
The process was to export a self contained QT file, import into compressor (best quality), timed until the MPEG2 and AC3 file icons popped up as complete and ready for import into DVDSP.
The time results were as follows:
Option 1 (Pro Res422) - time taken to exp to QT = 131sec, Compressor encode time=371sec
Total time 502 secs i.e 8m 22s with the QT file size being 731mb
Option 2 (native HDV) - time taken to exp to QT = 197sec, Compressor encode time = 400 sec
Total time 597 secs i.e 9m 47s with the Qt file size being 192mb
Option 3 (DC to SD 1st)- time taken to exp to QT = 22 sec, Compressor encode time = 94 sec
Total time 116 secs i.e 1m 56s with the QT file size being 219mb (strange as i thought it would be less than the HDV version, but there we go)
All 3 options were then imported into DVDSP and the same settings chosen for burning a SD DVD and the 3 dvds then displayed on a 42"plasma (pioneer) and 42"LCD (sony bravia).DVD players Sony upscaling DVD connected via HDMI and Sony Std DVD non upscaling DVD player.
6 people(1 x BBC camera man, 1 X editor and 1 x program manager, 3 x general public ) were then persuaded to view DVDs and pick what they thought was the best. None had any knowledge as to which was which.
Results surprised me, in so much that most struggled to spot the difference!
1 picked the Pro Res (stating they thought it was a little sharper)
1 picked the native HDV, giving a similar reason
4 said that they would be happy with either and couldn't see any concernable difference to pick one over another.
Ok so maybe not a scientific test, and I am sure some will say oh but...if you had done this, or that, then the results would have been different, but hey I only did the test to see in a real world, what the differences are. Certainly the processing times varied hugely from 1m56s to 9m47s for the same 1 minute piece of film. Likewise the QT file sizes from 192mb (hdv) to 731mb (422).
So if storage or time are really critical, I hope it may be useful to anyone with little HDV experience (like me) to make a decision. At least in this case, most people cannot tell the difference for it to be that important.
I would like to hear if anybody else has had too much time on their hands to carry out similar tests and come up with the same or different results?
This is after all only a tiny piece of the jigsaw.
Cheers
Stu

It offers better performance when editing. HDV is processor intensive, and can take longer to render, and a lot longer to compress into your final format. And HDV is an 8-bit 4:2:0 codec. While you can't change that going to ProRes, ProRes is 4:2:2 10-bit, and color correcting that gives you better leway with color...you can push things more. just a TAD more, as your color information is already whack.
But if you intend to master back to HDV, do not go to ProRes. To go back to HDV you need to capture as native HDV.
Shane

HDV NTSC & PAL to SD DVD

PLEASE HELP!!
I've got two different projects that need to be combined into one dvd for the client.
problem is the first project was shot and edited as HDV 1080/60i and the second at
1080/50i, so i have an NTSC sequence and a PAL sequence.
the DVD needs to be in PAL.
also, i'm completely confused in regards to getting HDV to a SD DVD.
can't figure out what's the fastest, highest quality workflow.
thus far using compressor and dvd studio pro 4 to build the DVD using just the PAL sequence i've gotten nothing but interlaced awful looking video.
i've searched the boards on these subjects but i'm still not getting anywhere, just more confused.
any guidance is greatly appreciated!
thank you

thanks RedTruck, i will try this!
quick question:
is JES deinterlacer the best way to convert the NTSC HDV to PAL HDV (or 1080/60i to 1080/50i)?
client also now wants this on PAL digibeta, so i'm thinking maybe the easiest way of doing all this is getting everything to 1080/50i HDV PAL, exporting via the camera back to HDV tape then taking the HDV tape to a dub house and have it downconverted there to DigiBeta. from that, reimport as SD PAL to make the PAL DVDs. how does this sound?

Conforming SD back to HDV

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