CS/2 and CS/3 Color Bridge

Hello, we are having the following problem. An agency is preparing an ad for us in Pantone 1805 CMYK using CS/2 Pantone Process Coated. The CMYK Breakdown is 1-91-100-23. When we bring it into CS/3 with Color Bridge as 1805, the CMYK breakdown is 5-96-76-21. Although it is close, its not exact. Will this problem be solved if the both parties used CS/3 Color Bridge? Its very frustrating as the two software versions are similar yet this is giving us some problems. Any help would be appreciated. I would think Pantone 1805 Uncoated would give the same results in any software on any computer. Many Thanks, Aristotle Zoulas, J&R Music & Computer World

The agency is using the standard Pantone Solid-to-Process Color conversion. For years the industry had relied on the Pantone CMYK equivalents until a few years back they reformulated the CMYK equivalents and named them "Bridge" ( which sounds like the version you have loaded in your swatch menus ). You should just create a new color swatch that matches their numbers. Had the agency used the Bridge numbers, you wouldn't have a color shift, and therefore wouldn't have a problem. It probably comes down to a branding color issue where they want 1805 printed the way it's always been printed since 1975...1c, 91m, 100y, 23k.

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CS5.5 Can't see Pantone Color Bridge libraries!

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I am using Creative Suite CS5.5 Trial version for now on Windows 7 platform. For some reason I don't see Pantone Color Bridge libraries, only the old ones, but none of the Plus Series. I was able to see these colors on version 5, but not here. Can't see them on Photoshop, Illustrator or InDesign. I wonder if CS5.5 supports these colors. I even downloaded a plugin from Pantone and Pantone Color Manager, but with no luck. I contacted Pantone, but still waiting for a response. Any help would be much appreciated, thanks!
Aldo

Please post in the InDesign forum. This forum is for suite specific issues only.
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Pantone Plus Color Bridge Swatches don't match

Hi
I have used a Pantone Plus Color Bridge swatch (specifically Pantone 115 CP - yellow) in my inDesign CC 2014 project.
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When printed there is a VERY noticeable difference between the yellow swatch in the inDesign document and the Illustrator placed graphic.
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Thanks

In your bottom capture the 187 swatch is from the the legacy Pantone library where solid color swatches were defined as CMYK. Here I'ved saved the old pre CS6 coated library and 187 is defined as a spot color but with CMYK values:
Starting with CS6 the solid swatches are Lab definitions and if you chose to convert them to process CMYK, the conversion is color managed Lab to CMYK and the results will depend on your document's CMYK profile and not a Pantone set value. If you select the swatch and look at the Color panel you can see the definition is Lab and the type is Spot:
If you don't want a color managed conversion for CMYK simulations use Pantone + Color Bridge, those swatches are defined as CMYK and the Type is Process

Pantone Color Bridge vs Photoshop

Hello,
I'm curious why my Pantone Color Bridge is giving me different information than Photoshop CS4 for PMS 549. I am in the process of creating a style guide for a client of mine, and he requested the spot, process, RGB and HTML color codes.
Pantone Color Bridge says:
PMS 549C
RGB 94/156/174
CMYK 59/8/9/19
HTML 5E9CAE
Photoshop says:
PMS 549C
RGB 94/156/174
CMYK 65/26/26/1
HTML 5e9cae
The 65/26/26/1 looks a lot closer on the screen (I know, I know...) Does anyone know why the anomaly?

A quick bit of testing shows that your Photoshop setting for CMYK is USWebCoatedSWOPv2 - a pretty good middle-of-the-road profile.
The build from Color Bridge is using a very heavy black generation - probably a lowest-common-denominator approach Pantone uses to give the most consistent color in the face of inevitable press drift in most assuredly unknown press conditions. A crapshoot.
The actual color that comes off a press from a given CMYK build is very dependent upon paper and press conditions.
Tread lightly here when recommending a CMYK build to your client. Include a BIG caveat.

Pantone Swatch values vs. Pantone+ Color Bridge Coated Book values

I'm working with a set of Pantone colors.
Why don't the Pantone's CMYK/RGB values in Illustrator CC match the values given in the Pantone Plus Color Bridge Book?

J,
I understood from the other threads that the RGB value set was predetermined by the company, and not to be replaced by something from whomever (even Pantone).
Apart from that, when you have the colour of a Pantone ink and need to substitute it by a CMYK and/or RGB value set, it will always be off in some way or another. And if you need to combine multiple substitute colours, they may very well be off in different ways with the conversions provided by Pantone, which means that they be more inferior to the Pantone inks than they need. Something similar may apply to cases with combinations of substituted Pantone ink colours and original CMYK/RGB colours.
So at least in some cases there may be a better choice of CMYK/RGB values than a conversion provided by Pantone.
In other words: who says that you agree, or should agree, with the (latest) conversion(s) provided by Pantone in each and every case?
It may be worth noting that Pantone themselves have changed their mind about the best conversions more than once.

Pantone Color Bridge - digital values vs book values?

Hello,
I've had to update our Pantone libraries for the CS3 suite to Color Bridge (for working with a 3rd party). I've downloaded Pantone's library update so I can access Color Bridge via the libraries in Illustrator and InDesign. When I convert from PMS to CMYK, the digital values match that of the book values, but when I do the same for RGB (sRGB) and web, the digital values DON'T match that of those in the book.
Does anyone know why the RGB and web values differ digital to book?
Thanks,
Kristin.

J,
I understood from the other threads that the RGB value set was predetermined by the company, and not to be replaced by something from whomever (even Pantone).
Apart from that, when you have the colour of a Pantone ink and need to substitute it by a CMYK and/or RGB value set, it will always be off in some way or another. And if you need to combine multiple substitute colours, they may very well be off in different ways with the conversions provided by Pantone, which means that they be more inferior to the Pantone inks than they need. Something similar may apply to cases with combinations of substituted Pantone ink colours and original CMYK/RGB colours.
So at least in some cases there may be a better choice of CMYK/RGB values than a conversion provided by Pantone.
In other words: who says that you agree, or should agree, with the (latest) conversion(s) provided by Pantone in each and every case?
It may be worth noting that Pantone themselves have changed their mind about the best conversions more than once.

Pantone conversions to cmyk don't match pantone color bridge

We are having issues at our plant with adobe not converting colors properly. Program using to send to our rip for a di press is Indesign cs6, tried cs5.5 and get the same values.
Example pantone color is 293. We have the latest pantone + bridge and the color break down is 100c 69m 0y 4k but if you let adobe made all spots to process we get a value of 100c 80m 12y 3k.
Any idea what is causing the incorrect values or what I can update to use the correct values?
Thanks.

HI,
In order to get the best CMYK values from InDesign, set your CMYK working space (color settings or Assign ICC to your document) to your DI Press ICC profile.
This way, InDesign will convert from Pantone’s Lab valur to the presse ICC profile’s CMYK values.
CMYK numbers from Color Bridge + are made for european TVI (ISO standard), which is lower that North American standards.
Hope this help!

Pantone+ Color Bridge Coated vs Pantone+ Solid Coated

In Illustrator CC-2014, why is there a difference in a solid colour for example PMS 123 when one is used from the Pantone+ Color Bridge Coated and the other from the Pantone+ Solid Coated Library.

The reason for the discrepancy is my last results was that while the Working Colour Space was changed from SWOP to SheetFed, it was over looked that the assigned profile remained to that of SWOP. In the screen shots below Working Colour Space and Assigned Profile are set the same. Printed results closely reflect to what I see on screen with the SheetFed Profile producing a better match in my opinion. Cheers

Help and suggestions for color scheme for multiple flavor package design

I need help choosing colors for a multiple flavor food product line.
My objective in this post is to know how to create or acquire the palette I will need in order to proceed with design, mock ups, marketing collateral etc.
This project requires a color scheme that has enough contrast and variation to represent up to 24 flavors of food packages per type or line of products. Each product flavor or flavor combination (the name of the item, such as Cherry Cocoa Almond or Apricot Vanilla Bean etc.) in the line will be represented by a single color. The product packaging will be white on solid color. The medium will be laser print on gloss label stock.
The problem is that many flavors will use similar colors. Chocolate items will have different hues of browns and Maple or Nut flavors will also use brown tones. Likewise Orange, Apricot and Mango will use similar hues of orange etc. I know the problem could be solved with dual or multiple colors but I do not have that option for this project. All of the packaging is white on single color. There are no accent colors used.
I need to generate the palette before designing the packaging in order to create mock ups for print and then photography for print marketing collateral and internet marketing assets etc.
Does anyone have a good strategy for this or know of any resources available?
I am using:
Dell Precision T1700 (64-bit)
Windows 7 Professional (Service Pack 1)
Dual screens (not calibrated to Pantone or printer)
Printer: Konica Minolta bizhub c224e
Pantone+ Color Bridge Coated and Uncoated book
Adobe CC, AI, PS, ID etc.
I am printing onto gloss labels for mock ups and will be using images for web.
I would also be interested in knowing how to calibrate these devices.
Thanks!

When it comes to design and design sense, sometimes just the name of the item could generate ideas. There really is no right or wrong way to come up with concepts. But, reaching out to other people is a good way of going about it. In product development, I always recommend putting together some sort of focus group and brainstorm ideas back and forth. In larger corporate product departments you would have product managers defining their product descriptions. You might have a marketing group head get involved. Well, I know I am not telling you anything you didn't already know. I'm just saying that, as a designer, I always present my ideas to a few people to get feedback. And, based on that, I can then further develope the idea or dump it and start over. I recently was involved with a new product development and came up with some really great conceptuals. But, then I was told by a product manager that sometimes you have to roll-out something preliminary and, in a few years of selling tons of great items, you then revamp the entire line with a tag that reads "new and improved". This might work in your case where you have limited resources initially. Hope you do well. You could always post screen grabs of what you are thinking and we could give you feedback, too. Just a thought.

Pantone 2563 in Color Bridge Book (UK)

Hi there,
Can anyone help me please, please, please...
I have a logo that I need to show all the conversions for in: Pantone (2563), CMYK, RGB & Hex.
All I need to know is what the Pantone Color Bridge book says but my manager has lost my book (and annoyingly hasn't replace it yet, even though I've waited six months!) so I am having great difficulty in knowing if my conversions are correct.
If someone out there could help me by literally telling me what the book says for Pantone 2563 then I would be most grateful as at the moment I am pulling out my hair!
Thank you.
Jo

Jo,
you want consistent colors as Spot, in CMYK and in RGB.
The color is defined as Pantone Coated spot ink 2563C.
Right ?
1. Define in Photoshop your RGB space, for instance sRGB.
2. Define in Photoshop your CMYK space, for instance ISO Coated.
3. Define as well a Gray TRC, maybe Black Ink ISO Coated
(can be explained later, TRC=tone reproduction curve,
a better substitute for a single dot gain number).
4. Define as well a Spot TRC, maybe Black Ink ISO Coated.
5. Save these settings (any name)as sRGB-ISO-ISO-ISO.csf
6. Synchronize by CS# Bridge.
How to get the numbers:
Photoshop / Color Picker / Color Libraries / Pantone Coated 2563C.
Read the Lab numbers: L=70, a=24, b=-24. These are independent
of RGB and CMYK choices. Absolute references.
Back to Color Picker / Read CMYK values / Read RGB values /
Read hex values for RGB (used in HTML, practically only for sRGB).
Why is this workflow better than taking the numbers from a
printed or digital swatch book ?
Because the CMYK numbers are valid for a SPECIFIED printing
process (your choice), which contains inks, paper and dot gain.
How to check the conversion quality/robustness:
Fill a rectangle by 2563C or simply by the Lab color.
View / Proof colors for ISO Coated / Gamut warning: no problem.
View / Proof colors for sRGB / Gamut warning: no problem.
Result: this spot color can be printed by spot ink, by CMYK
ISO Coated and it can be reproduced nicely on monitors which
are near to sRGB.
If the percentages for Y and K (for the example 2563C) should
be very low , then I would try to replace these values by 0.
For ISO Coated these values are 0.
Hopefully I understood your task correctly.
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

CMYK Pantone breakdowns different Pantone Color Bridge

I was wanting to know why the color breakdown that Indesign gives for a Spot Pantone color is different to the one specified in a Pantone Color Bridge book. Also the color on screen that Pantone Color Bridge breakdowns show seems more accurate than the ones specified by Indesign.
Any ideas on this or articles that can explain this?
Thanks

Jono10 wrote:
One last thing. If I use the 'Standard Lab values for spots' in Ink manager which gives me a better on screen reproduction of a color then I should do the same in Illustrator under 'Spot colour Options' in the swatches palette.
Lab might give you a better on screen preview of Pantone Solid inks (spot color, not CMYK), especially if the color is out of the CMYK gamut.
Lab doesn't necessarily give you a better preview of how the color would convert to process CMYK. If you want a preview of how a Lab color would convert to CMYK, you could check both Use Standard Lab... and All Spots To Process in Ink Manager.

Pantone Color Bridge swatches?

For my projects I need to work in CMYK with process colors. Today, after looking at my Pantone color guide book here in my office I found a color I wanted to use for a client's project. Next I selected the swatches palette to display Pantone process uncoated colors. To my confusion the color I wanted to use (PMS PC 633) was not in the list of Pantone Process Uncoated color swatches.
I went back to the swatch palette to view the Swatch Library > Color Books list. I see some other options:
Pantone color bridge CMYK EC
Pantone color bridge CMYK PC
Pantone color bridge CMYK UP
Does anyone know what these are? I do see my PMS 633 in the UP list. But I'm not sure what the difference is between these libraries and the Pantone process uncoated, or between these three (EC, PC and UP). Does anybody out there know what these libraries are for and if I can safely use them? Thanks.

Sorry for posting before Googling the topic. Found this:
http://yourartdirector.blogspot.com/2008/04/pantone-rebuilt-their-bridge.html
Great information on this site.

The difference between 'Pigment Based' and 'Dye Based' color inks?

What is the difference between 'Pigment Based' color inks (as used in the HP OfficeJet 8500 series) and 'Dye Based' color inks (as used in the HP OfficeJet 7500 printer)?
Thanks;
Mark S

Pigment based inks have small color particles suspended in a carrier (like paint). Dye based inks have colorant disolved in the carrier (like water colors). Pigment based inks generally have better lightfastness, dye based inks are generally better for photo quality on glossy media. The following Google search has many pages with useful information.
Bob Headrick, HP Expert
I am not an employee of HP, I am a volunteer posting here on my own time.
If your problem is solved please click the "Accept as Solution" button ------------V
If my answer was helpful please click the "Thumbs Up" to say "Thank You"--V

Display data in bold and red in color in side a table control cell

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I need to display data in side a Table Control cell with Bold and Red in color, can any body help me how to do it.
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How To Change Hyperlinks And Nav Menu Colors

I continue to see people stating that it's impossible to change hyperlink colors and navigation menu colors until after you publish your site. This is not true. It's quite easy to update your templates with the colors YOU want and when you update the template, you never have to mess with any post-processing. You make a new page? Your colors are already there.
I've gone over this before in this thread:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=3288533&#3288533
But I'll go over the quick and dirty version here as well. Those who want more detail can post a question and I'll elaborate.
First, do you know how to get into iWeb's inner folders? You right click or control click on your iWeb icon and select Show Package Contents from the pop-up menu.
Step 2
Once you've done that, you'll see a new Finder window that shows a folder called Contents. Open that and then open the next folder Resources. Within Resources there's a folder named Shared. Open the Shared folder.
You're now looking at your collection of iWeb template files. You'll notice that each template has seven individual page files - each file defines the layout and styles for the page for which its named. This is actually one of the two places where you'll find the data/images that make up your iWeb pages. This location only contains the images. Now I'll show you were to find the data file.
So you're currently here:
/Applications/iWeb/Contents/Resources/Shared/
You want to go here:
/Applications/iWeb/Contents/Resources/English.lproj
Now if you speak another language and your Mac's system language is set to the language you speak, substitue English with that language. If your system is set to English regardless of the language you speak, and you use the English templates, then stick with the English folder.
When you're in the English.lproj folder, you will see seven sub-folders and one file named TemplatesInfo.plist. TemplatesInfo.plist is the file that registers the templates and tells iWeb what you've got in your collection. But we don't care about that file for now. We're after the template data files.
The seven sub-folders are aptly named for each of the seven page-types as you can see. Open the About Me folder.
Now you will see an "about me.webtemplate" file for every template you have in your collection. Good job. You've learned something new. Move on to Step 3.
Step 3
If you haven't decided yet, now's the time to decide which template you'd like to update. If you're just along for the ride to learn something new, no worries. We won't do anything you can't undo.
Pick a template file now. Perhaps you chose the White template, or:
White About Me.webtemplate
Right click or control click on this file and select Show Package Contents from the pop-up menu. This will launch a new Finder window that displays the contents of the White About Me.webtemplate file.
You will likely see a handful of different files, but the file you want is the one named Index.xml.gz.
Index.xml.gz is the brain behind the template. Within this file are all the settings for the page you chose and it's really not hard to find what you want and change it. So let's take a peek.
Step 4
Double-click the file Index.xml.gz. This will reveal a new file named Index.xml. You might have to scroll down in your Finder window to see it. Rename Index.xml.gz to Index.xml.gz.backup in case you screw things up, you have your original.
Now, open Index.xml with TextEdit. Do not open the file with a code editor unless you have already formatted the file.
When the file opens, you'll notice it's one gigantic jumbled mess of stuff. No worries, we'll straighten that out. All you need to do is a find/replace.
Find all instances of: ><
And replace with:
<
The line break is important so maybe just copy the lines right out of this post. When you replace all of those, the file will be far more easy to view.
Assuming you've completed that step. You're basically ready to make your change and test it out! Not hard ey?
So let's say you want to change your hyperlink color from grey to blue. Search for this string:
BLDefaultHyperlinkCharacterStyleIdentifier0
When you find that string, you will see a few lines below it, two lines that look similar to this:
<sf:fontColor>
<sf:color xsi:type="sfa:calibrated-rgb-color-type" sfa:r=".8" sfa:g="1" sfa:b="0.4" sfa:a="1"/>
This is how the template specifies color. It's RGB100. Your Mac came with a program called Art Director's Took Kit and that application can tell you the RGB100 values for any color you want. Tinker with that and you'll have a lot of fun with this.
So I picked out a nice royal blue for you. The RGB100 values for it are:
R:0 G:25 B:100
What you need to do is update the color line to match those values:
<sf:color xsi:type="sfa:calibrated-rgb-color-type" sfa:r="0" sfa:g=".25" sfa:b="1" sfa:a="1"/>
Notice that you specify these in terms of a percentage, where 25 became .25 and 100 became 1.
Step 5
Save your file. It's time to see your work in action. Open iWeb if it isn't open already and create a new page using the template you've just altered. If you altered the White About Me page, then select that and create the new page.
It there are hyperlinks already on this page, you should already see that they reflect your new color. If there aren't any hyperlinks, then type some text and create one. You should see your new link color right away!
Now if you don't see the new color, either you picked the wrong page or you neglected to rename the Index.xml.gz file a few steps back. If you did not rename that file, then it's still in control of your template. Rename it now and try again.
If you don't like that color, simply swap back to the TextEdit page and change it until you like it - switching back and forth between the file and iWeb to view your changes. Once you're happy, make note of the color you chose and make the change for the remaining six pages in the tempalte you selected. Just be sure to follow the steps for each page you edit. If you fail to see your change, again, check to see that you renamed Index.xml.gz.
Side Notes
For the more technical, rather than editing an existing template, you might want to duplicate and rename a template. This essentially creates a brand new one. If you're pretty good within Finder then go for it, just be sure that you duplicate the files in both locations:
/Applications/iWeb/Contents/Resources/Shared/
/Applications/iWeb/Contents/Resources/English.lproj/...
Choose a unique name for the duplicated template and change every single file so that the new name replaces the old one. You would have to register this new template in the TemplatesInfo.plist file as well, but I'm not going to get into that here.
The thread I referenced at the top has all kinds of search terms to find the other hyperlink styles (rollover and visited) and all the navigation menu styles plus a bunch of other fun stuff.
Now, it seems long, but that's because I wrote it well. The shortest version of this I've ever written was two sentences, but that was for a UNIX geek and he got it. It's just as easy for you, but I write it out so that anyone can do this, because anyone can. It's just not hard.
If you have questions about any of the steps, go ahead and ask.

Good. Okay here's how to apply a background color to your nav bar buttons. For example, my Aerolite template sets the selected page to a black background color. The rollover effect uses a gradient fill. I'll describe both of those here.
First, here are the navigation menu search terms:
navbaritem-style-normal-default
navbaritem-style-rollover-default
navbaritem-style-selected-default
navbar-pargraph
The first three set the button effects and text colors. The last one there sets the font, font size and other paragraph styles.
To change the selected page button background color, or gradient or image, first search for it using the search term above. Start from the top of the file because there are two instances of those terms, one where you can set the values, the other is only reference to the first and does not allow you to change settings.
When you find the search term, you might want to insert an empty line above it to help separate it from the rest of the code. You can also insert an empty line below the section. The end of this style ends with:
</sf:navbar-item-style>
Be careful not to mix that up with </sf:navbaritem-character-style>
Now, within this section, you'll find all kinds of settings... stroke, fill, character styles, etc. Notice you can change font color in there. But for this demo, you want to find the section that looks like this:
<sf:fill>
<sf:null/>
</sf:fill>
I'm assuming you're editing an Apple template that does not already have a fill effect. If it does have one, then your example might not look exactly like that.
To apply a color fill, change those three lines to these lines:
<sf:fill>
<sf:color xsi:type="sfa:calibrated-rgb-color-type" sfa:r="0" sfa:g="0" sfa:b="0" sfa:a="1"/>
</sf:fill>
You can see that we've inserted the line that specifies color - something you should be familiar with by now. Here you can specify the color that will become the background of your nav bar button. This example specifies black. Easy no?
If you would prefer a gradient fill, then replace those three lines with this:
<sf:fill>
<sf:angle-gradient sfa:ID="SFRAngleGradient-1111" sf:opacity="1" sf:type="linear" sf:angle="0">
<sf:stops sfa:ID="NSMutableArray-1111">
<sf:gradient-stop sfa:ID="SFRGradientStop-1111" sf:fraction="0">
<sf:color xsi:type="sfa:calibrated-rgb-color-type" sfa:r="0.40" sfa:g="0.40" sfa:b="0.30" sfa:a="1"/>
</sf:gradient-stop>
<sf:gradient-stop sfa:ID="SFRGradientStop-2222" sf:fraction="1">
<sf:color xsi:type="sfa:calibrated-rgb-color-type" sfa:r="0.64" sfa:g="0.66" sfa:b="0.54" sfa:a="1"/>
</sf:gradient-stop>
</sf:stops>
</sf:angle-gradient>
</sf:fill>
Now, don't panic Here's what this is. The first line allows you to specify the angle of your gradient. Play with the numbers from 0 to 359 until you have what makes sense for your design.
Then, you will see two familiar lines again - the lines that allow you to specify color! The first line is the first color of your gradient and the second color is the second color of your gradient. That's all there is to it!
SECRET: It might be possible to add additional colors, not just two. Do you see the part sf:fraction="0" and sf:fraction="1"? These are gradient stops. I'm willing to bet that if you inserted a thrid gradient stop with a fraction setting of .5, you'd have a three-color gradient!
<sf:gradient-stop sfa:ID="SFRGradientStop-3333" sf:fraction=".5">
<sf:color xsi:type="sfa:calibrated-rgb-color-type" sfa:r="0" sfa:g="0.25" sfa:b="4" sfa:a="1"/>
</sf:gradient-stop>
I have never tried this - it just occurred to me as I was looking at this code. Big prize for the first person to prove the theory
NOTE: You will notice that the number 1111 and 2222 are within this code. iWeb XML relies on identification tags here and there. It's nothing you really have to care about except if you insert gradient fills in more than one area. Those numbers need to be unique so if you paste that code in for your selected page button and then paste it again for your rollover buttons, you'll need to update the numbers for the second button. Any numbers are fine. Use 3333 and 4444 for the second set, 5555 and 6666 for the thrid and so on. I often just type 4345781476 - doesn't matter.
Next lesson will be images.

CS/2 and CS/3 Color Bridge

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