Detail preserving upscale aspect ratio issue

My goal is to take a 720x480 60i DV file (non square pixel) and upscale to 960x720 60p square pixel for YouTube upload.
My workflow seems to work, except I'm not quite getting the correct aspect ratio at the end. I'm getting an extra 5 pixels on the bottom and top of my image so it's being squished by a total of 10 pixels. I have uploaded a screen capture to demonstrate this. In case the image preview doesn't work here's a Flickr URL:
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8623/16158021066_e52966ff22_o.jpg
On the left is a simple AE scale, I dragged the DV file into a timeline, and used the scale command to change the pixel resolution to 960x720 so the DV file stretches to fill the 4:3 frame as it should. Remember, I'm trying to get the DV file to square pixel aspect ratio for online viewing. On the right is the result of my workflow below using AE CC and detail preserving upscale. The 5 pixel gray bars are part of the movie file.
Import the DV master into After Effects CC
Right click the file in the project bin, go to Interpret footage, then MainSet Conform frame rate to 59.94, hit okay
Drag this movie to the new composition button
Select the composition in the project bin, hit Command+K to open the comp properties
Set the frame size to 960x720
Set the duraction to double the original
Set pixel aspect ratio to square, hit okay
Select the video layer in the new comp, then go to the Layer menu, select Time, then Time Stretch and enter 200, then hit okay, the number should match the frame duration you just got from doubling the original
Now, add the Detail preserving upscale effect
Click fit width
Export

Thanks for the reply Mylenium. Typically I do separate operations like this using pre-composing but I found it made no difference so I removed that step in my original workflow so save work.
I'm not sure what "crooked HDV/ IMX values" means, can you elaborate?
If you mean my frame size of 960x720 this is the minimum that YouTube will need for a 4:3 video to generate a 60p video. They don't want 4:3 videos encoded in 16:9 wrappers and they have good reasons for this.
I'll say for the sake of simplicity to forget all about the 60p conversion here and focus on the 4:3 non square PAR conversion using the DPU (detail preserving upscale). I was able to accomplish this but it requires me re-scaling the video in After Effects first... to either 640x480 or 720x540 square pixel... but I'm just trying to avoid this additional scaling operation.

Similar Messages

  • Can you help me solve my aspect ratio issue?

    Hey guys,
    I'm posting this in hopes that someone can help me solve an aspect ratio issue with a project that I have to finish by tomorrow.
    I'm trying to avoid having to re-edit the entire thing.
    I shot the project with my Nikon D7000 DSLR. in 720p 30p (29.97)
    I am running Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 (the trial version).  I have the full version of Adobe Premiere Pro CS3.
    The reason I was working with the trial is that CS3 can't handle the H.264 MOVs that the D7000 records.
    You can work with a timeline, but if you try to export anything, it never works.  I always have to convert my footage to ProRes MOVs with MPEG Streamclip before I can work with them is CS3.  That takes a lot of time and a lot of hard drive space.  After much research, I found out that CS5 is the way to go for DSLR footage.  I just need to save up my pennies for the upgrade.
    So I thought I'd edit this short (1 minute) project with the trial to see how CS5 works with the D7000 footage.
    Upon installing the trial program, I found that the project presets were limited.  I knew this ahead of time because it's clearly stated on the Adobe's website.
    But I wasn't aware how limited they are.
    Since "DSLR 1280x720p 30p" is not an option with the trial, I was going to use HDV 720p 30p.  But that was not an option either!
    So basically, my only option for 16x9 30p was "DV NTSC Widescreen".  It's my understanding that this is 864x480 (in square pixel aspect ratio) or 720x480  (in widescreen pixel aspect ratio)   I needed the output file to be 864x486.  I downsized the footage to 69% in the "Video Effects: Motion" setting so it looked correct in the project.  I didn't think about those extra 6 pixels until I outputed the file and saw thin black lines on the top and bottom.  My guess is that Premiere is adding black pixels because my project is technically 720x480 (1.2121)
    Any thoughts on how I can get a clean 864x486 export?  I'd rather not re-edit the whole thing...which I would have to do in CS3 after I spent a few hours converting the original files in MPEG Streamclip.  I don't know if there is a way to export something out of CS5 and then open a new project in CS3 to make this work.
    Thanks in adavance!
    - Jordan

    On export, just crop a few pixels off of each side; that'll let the image scale correctly to the output frame size without black bars.
    I'm not running the trial, but you should still be able to create a custom sequence preset using the Desktop editing mode. Just switch over to the General tab when you create a new sequence, and choose "Desktop" from the editing modes. Set the rest of the parameters as you need them.
    Even easier: once you've imported your footage, just drag a clip to the New Item icon at the bottom of the project panel; a sequence will be created matching your footage parameters. You can edit at full-resolution, and then export to your desired frame size when complete--you'll probably still need to crop a few pixels (in the Export Settings window) to eliminate the black bars.

  • Detail-preserving upscale is missing

    After Effects says it is fully updated but I still can not find this effect.
    Is it a seperate download?
    Am I missing something?
    Any help would be great, thank you

    My aplogies...
    I am runnnig the lastes Version of After Effects CC with the most current update.
    Windows 7. Also fully updated
    When I type a search for the detail preserving upscale effect it is not there.
    I understand it is a new effect that came out around October of 2013 but it has not seemed to make it to my version.
    My cloud membership is in good standing and when I check to see if AE is current with it's update it show as "up to date"

  • Detail-Preserving Upscale Effect

    Hi all:
    This was the effect I have been waiting for - as I am working on a Lacrosse highlight video - and some of the footage was not zoomed in when it was shot (AVCD 1440x1080 29.97 fps).
    I have tried the new effect on a clip, and cannot get a much better outcome than when I just scaled the clip up in PPro.  Just trying to have clear footage without halos/ringing effect...
    I have watched the short video about the effect - http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-at-ibc-2013/after-effects-cc-detailpreserving-upscale/
    And also read this short help piece on the effect - http://helpx.adobe.com/after-effects/using/detail-preserving-upscale-effect.html
    Neither of which have really addressed upscaling/zooming in on video - and which adjustments to the effect will give the desired result.
    Is there anything else out there yet for me to read/watch? Does anyone have any pointers for me?
    Thanks for any help you can provide - as always
    Kim

    my comment is that I am in early stages of researching this detail preserving effect and have not seen the links you have posted above. Nice. I did see another post and one of the staff posted a link, maybe same one - never seen it either (yet).
    My plans with the effect is for HD material panned and zoomed for SD - to upscale that SD into HD. Some of the HD would not be panned and zoomed and would still have the HD capabilities, but other footage is zoomed 200% (doubled).
    So, you are from November I see - you must be a pro by now. Don't worry, not asking for advice on something I have not even tried yet. I am still in the early stages and hope you have progressed with your upscaling abilities.

  • Detail preserving upscale effect and video bitrate

    Hi
    When I make a Detail-preserving Upscale effect on after effects CC  do you think it's useful to increase bitrate to help preserving detail or I can maintain the original bitrate because it will not change nothing in the processus ?
    For example
    I have avchd 1920x1080p 28 MBitrate clips , and I want to upscale them to 4096x2304 (4K) , when exporting to queue or media encoder can I preserve the original bitrate 28 Mbps or should I increase to higher bitrate (like 50 Mbps)  to help the detail preserving?

    What is your intent for these files once you're done upscaling them?

  • Can't find Detail preserving upscale effect in After Effects CC

    Hello house,
    I recently needed to use the detail preserving upscale effect for a project but it seems my version of After Effects CC does not have it. How can I go about getting it please?
    Thank you.

    What is the exact version number?
    The Detail-Preserving Upscale effect was added in After Effects 12.1:
    After Effects CC (12.1): what’s new and changed

  • Preserve aspect ratio issues.

    I’m having a problem with my “preserve aspect ratio” command under Quick Time Conversion. I’ve bounced many projects that are 720x480 into a 640x480 cube, (for use on the clients website.) with much success. But for some reason FCP has stopped doing this. Everything I bounce, whatever the setting is coming out stretched. It’s acting almost like the commend doesn’t even exist.
    Is there a preference setting that might have been messed up? Is there even a way to control this. For the life of me I can’t figure this out. Any ideas?

    Yeah, it's anamorphic file... i bounce it down
    h264
    keyframe automatic
    Data Rate: 1300
    best for streeming
    Size VGA
    Preseve Aspect using "fit demention"
    ?

  • Aspect Ratio Issues in Timeline

    This may be a simple fix, may not be. I've searched the discussions, and have come close to an answer, but each topis is just slightly different than my specific issue.
    Details:
    Shot in 16:9 on Canon XL2.
    Imported media just fine, clips looked fine in FCP, etc.
    Imported archival historical photos and film footage just fine, put them in timeline and resized each individually. They also looked fine in the 16:9 sequence.
    Created a new sequence where I tried a different cut on a later section of the timline. (I just copy and pasted the material from the original timeline into the new sequence. This may be where I went wrong.)
    I liked what I had and so replaced the end of the timeline in the original sequence witht the newly edited section from the second sequence. (Same copy and paste method.)
    Problem:
    All of the aspect ratios for the original footage (16:9) and the b-roll (4:3) material was off (stretched, etc.)
    I figured out how to change the origianl shot footage to its correct 16:9 aspect ratio, but all of the b-roll still is'nt correct--it's streched virtically, covering the bars at the top and the bottom of the canvas window. (The bars are black by the way, if this is an indication of settings.)
    How can I get all of my b-roll back to fit the 16:9 aspect ratio of the project?

    I was able to fix my issue...sort of.
    I created a new 16:9 sequence and then pasted a copy of the original timeline into it. Because it was a true 16:9 sequence, all of the b-roll (still photos) were "squished" back into a 16:9 frame, hence making them look correct (because they had been stretched vertically over the 16:9). I knew the original 16:9 clip would also be "squished", but I knew I could manipulate the size of these clips much easier (they were all the same size, unlike the b-roll, there was no motion, etc.).
    So, I took one of these clips and manually resized it's aspect ratio to fit the 16:9 exactly. Then I copied the clip, selected all of the rest of the clips that needed to be resized and pasted the size attributes. Viola!
    Now my only concern is making sure when I export a QuickTime, and when I show it on a 4:3 TV, it will look correct, meaning it will not be stretched vertically to fit the screen, but instead will remain 16:9, with black bars on the top and bottom of the screen.

  • Aspect Ratio issues getting 16:9 to look right, what is the best workflow?

    Hi all,
    I am having trouble getting my 16:9 footage to look right when I export, especially when playing on DVD. I shot the footage with a Sony HDR-HC1 which apparently shoots in 16:9 anamorphic. Originally when I imported the footage it appeared it the FCP viewer and canvas in 4:3 letterboxed form, the image did not look squeezed or stretched but appeared with black stripes on top and bottom.
    I have tried several experiments with exporting this footage to dvd with the following results:
    Using Compressor with 4:3 setting in export:
    DVD Studio Pro track settings to 16:9 looks extra squashed vertically
    DVDSP track settings to 4:3 image looks in proper aspect ratio but displays with black stripes on all 4 sides.
    Using Compressor with 16:9 settings in export gives the same results.
    In conclusion, if it appears in 4:3 letterbox in FCP viewer and canvas there is no way to get it to export and display in DVD with proper 16:9 aspect ratio.
    I have also done some experimenting with re-capturing some of the footage from the tape.
    For one sequence I recaptured the footage and it displayed in 4:3 without the letterboxed effect (filling the whole screen) but appeared squeezed, I am guessing that this is because of the anamorphic nature in which my camera captures the footage. No pixels were missing. In the FCP viewer and canvas it looked squeezed and did not display in the correct aspect ratio, however when it was exported via Compressor in 4:3 and then in DVDSP Track Settings put to 16:9 Letterboxed, it is displayed perfectly (letterboxed vertically, the image filling the width of the screen without the extra stripes on the sides).
    So I thought that I had my solution here, although that did involve re-digitizing and batch capturing all 18 tapes used in the project, so its not exactly a quick fix.
    This is where it gets a bit confusing. In order to understand where I had originally gone wrong in my workflow I did some more experiments, this time with the settings on the camera (which I use for a deck in batch capturing). I found the function on the camera where you can set the "TV Type" to either 16:9 or 4:3. I switched the TV Type to 4:3 and when batching it went back to the original letterboxed look (in the batch preview screen that you see while capturing), however when put into the viewer and canvas it was too letterboxed and looked squashed vertically. So then I switched back to TV Type 16:9, now it looks 4:3 squeezed in the batch preview screen (no letterboxing, no missing pixels), however when it goes into the viewer and canvas it becomes letterboxed like the original footage that I had described earlier.
    So now even though I have switched the camera back to its original settings it will not display in that 4:3 squeezed look in FCP viewer and canvas.
    So after all that my main questions are, in 16:9 can I view it in the FCP viewer and canvas in its correct (anamorphically converted) aspect ratio and still export it without the black bars on all sides?
    (The FCP canvas seems to only display in 4:3)
    If not, what setting do I need to capture in FCP in the 4:3 squeezed look I have described earlier?
    (This is the only setting that I have found that displays properly when anamorphically stretched via DVDSP)
    I know that this is a long essay so thanks for making it this far. I have spent weeks experimenting trying to find the best solution so please help me if you know how! I will be very appreciative.
    Thanks
    Liam

    Hi there,
    I am not sure if it is necessarily a bug, but its a matter of understanding all of the settings needed. I had the same problems for a while but after a fair bit of trial and error have found some workable settings.
    It probably has more to do with the export settings rather than what viewer options have selected (I don't think that viewer settings affect your export).
    What program are you using to export?
    I am using compressor to export with aspect ration set to automatic 16:9. Then use DVDSP with the track set to 16:9 letterbox, it seems to export to DVD with the correct aspect ratio that way.
    I am having trouble with the image strobing, looks like some kind of interlacing problem, but at least I have got it in the right aspect ratio.
    Its typical video, solve one problem and it just creates another.
    I am yet to find the absolute best workflow.
    In response to Andy above, the original letterboxed footage probably did have something to do with the downconverting settings on the camera, as when I import without downconverting it does not letterbox. In the HDR-HC1 there is an option in the menu called "TV Type" with options of 4:3 or 16:9. I was reviewing my footage on a 4:3 television so I most likely had it set to 4:3 which created the letterboxing in the viewer when I then imported the footage.
    Importing the footage in HDV solves the issue of aspect ratio, but creates a new problem with the image strobing.
    I hope this was some kind of help to you.
    Liam

  • Pixel Aspect Ratio Issues-FCP HELPP!!!

    Okay folks, so currently I am putting together my reel in FCP, however I am encountering a few issues. So my source formats are different in pixel aspect ratio, some was shot on the 7D, some on the Alexa, and some on super 16mm, and a few after effects animations. However all of it is HD, and in ProresHQ 422. My problem here is when I import all of my media into FCP if the timeline is set to square pixels, the HD(1440x1080) footage looks squished, and if I set the timeline to HD(1440x1080) the square pixel footage looks blocky, pixelated and super square.
    That said, some of the footage from the 7D is labelled as square and some is labelled as HD(1440x1080), and all the after effects stuff is square.
    Right now i am dealing with it and just leaving my timeline as green-preview render, so everything looks mostly normal. However whichever format is not that of the timeline, the footage is degraded a tiny bit, so that when I pause the footage it looks great, but in preview it is slightly blurry.
    My question is, is there a way to format everything as either square or HD(1440x1080), so it looks normal, or is there a way to use mixed media formats and not have the preview blur. I'm going crazy over here, as I just graduated and am in dire need of a reel so I can begin to apply for jobs, etc....Or is there a way to formate my prores setting to transform everything to square pixels?
    Thanks guys!

    You can use compressor to convert everything to square pixels, however there's no need to worry about how it looks in fcp when it's playing but not fully rendered.  Try exporting a short section (mark an in and out around the section - and going file:  export: quicktime Not quicktime conversion) with current settings.  If you render the material, it should look fine when you play it within fcp.  Unfortunately, the render settings in the sequence menu are not particularly intuitive, but do a little playing around with them if you've got the time.
    I prefer to convert all my sources to my intended pixel dimensions, frame rate and codec before I edit in fcp, but it may not be necessary in your case.

  • Aspect ratio issue when watching 16'9 idvd created DVDs on regular players

    I am having problems with the aspect ratio of any DVDs that I burn in iDVD as 16'9 - The original video is 16'9 and edited as such in FCP, then exported with current settings selected and then in iDVD I select a widescreen project - preview of the project is fine and when the DVD is done it plays with the correct aspect ratio if I watch on the computer's internal DVD player - but my issue is when I watch on any regular DVD player (on a widescreen tv of course) all the video looks tall and skinny, including the menu.  The only way I found to get the video to look like it's natural proportion is to switch the settings to 4'3 on the DVD player, then it creates almost a "super-widescreen" look where there are bars at the top and bottom of the screen.  On the otherhand, when i used to shoot in 4'3 and create DVDs as 4'3 projects, I NEVER had this problem when watching on a regular DVD player on widescreen TV!  It would take up the whole screen and look normal (I know it must stretch it to fit, but it wasn't noticable).  I thought creating a 16'9 video I should be able to watch on a widescreen TV and it should take up the whole screen and look normal.  Please help!

    No, that is not the way it should work. This may help:
    iDVD: DV widescreen 16:9 workflow from Final Cut Pro
    http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2179?viewlocale=en_US
    Final Cut Express: DV widescreen 16:9 workflow for iDVD at http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1611
    and
    Preparing your Final Cut Express or Final Cut Pro movie to work with iDVD at http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=iDVD/7.0/en/6652.html

  • Aspect ratio issue

    Hi, I have had this issue for several months and cannot get an answer...It started out when I downloaded Flash player 11.2. All the videos that we have posted on our client's websites are "squished" horizontally. Adobe said that it was a known issue when viewing Dreamweaver generated flash player code (from DW CS3) in IE8, and Chrome. Firefox is ok.  Adobe asked us to remove the "no script" portion of the code, as it was outdated and to try Flash player 11.3....which we did. It still does not work. We downloaded DW CS6 and tried to use the code generated from this latest version of DW....and we are still experiencing the same issue. DOES ANYONE KNOW ABOUT THIS ISSUE AND WHAT TO DO? Thank you, Steve K.

    Aspect ratio problems are usually caused  when the output file size doesn't match proportions of the native file (i.e. a letterbox video saved as 320X240).
    Honestly, I stopped using Flash media when Steve Jobs announced Apple iOS devices would not support it.  If you're struggling with this, now might be an opportune time to convert your FLVs to MP4s and use an HTML5 video player that IS supported by PCs, Macs, iOS and Androids.
    http://www.pickleplayer.com/
    Nancy O.
    Alt-Web Design & Publishing
    Web | Graphics | Print | Media  Specialists 
    http://alt-web.com/

  • Aspect ratio issues with SD box and no help from Verizon

    I just renewed my  2 year contract which included a free box but a billing screwup resulted in repeated charges for the box. A CS rep credited the account and said I had the wrong box and she would send out a new one. 
    i had a 7100 Motorola HD box. I have an older television set (that cannot control aspect ratio) and I have never had HD service but this was the box I was sent by Verizon as part of my contract. Why they felt it had to be changed I don't know, but ..... the box they sent was a 2500 SD box which does not give me an acceptable picture.
    It's totally random. Some channels are 16:9. Some are overzoomed 4:3. The FIOS channel bar at the bottom is partially off the screen and the content is clipped around the edges. Commercials are totally random in size and appearance.
    The # key on the remote does not work. There is no option in Settings to change the aspect ratio. 
    CS was ZERO help. They concluded that I had to either deal with the scattershot image sizes and clipped image content or go buy another television. SERIOUSLY VERIZON?
    I couldn't get an answer as to why the box I was sent by Verizon as part of my original contract that provided a perfectly acceptable image had to be replaced with a box that doesn't provide squat.  I have had Verizon service for  approximately 7 years with this same television and this is the first time I've been given a box that can't produce an acceptable image and a remote that can't resize. So why now?
    This smells like a bait and switch, or an attempt to get customers to pay for an upgraded box for a service they don't want  just to get an acceptable picture.  I live in an urban area and there is plenty of older equipment in these homes. So are customers like myself just being told even though you pay a significant amount of money for a Triple Play you are only getting 2 parts of the service?
    I find it hard to believe there isn't some way to make the box or the remote change the image size. Can anyone help?

    why do so many topics go to private section?  we need to see how it's responded to in case we have the same problem..
    but yes, our 2500 sd box, basically the 4:3 standard non HD box broadcasts to fit a 4:3 TV.. now some channels will have the black bars on top and bottom to accommodate the 16:9 aspect ratio..  you'll notice this if you run the 2500 box on a flat screen.. if you have it in 16:9 ratio on a flat screen it looks stretched.. the only way to watch regularly is in 4:3 mode.. which basically has the image with bars on all sides.. or you can zoom it and lose a portion of the image.. but it's because the box thinks you're using a 4:3 sd tv so the boxes appear on top and bottom so it can still fit the wider image it's filmed in.. so with flat screens you need the HD box i guess..  unless there is something i'm missing but there isn't a setting that i can find to change how the box exports the image for a flat screen or 4:3.   I know the HD boxes have an 'SD Override' option.. which i guess tells the box you're not using a 4:3 tv anymore.. but that option is not on the 2500 SD box.. believe me i looked..  but this is all in reverse for your issue anyhow as you're having trouble with the SD box on an SD TV...  which yeah, if you run SD the quality of picture is not as good as the HD programming.. so please let us know what they say to do for you.

  • FCP export aspect ratio issue

    Hi everyone!
    I would like to export HD footage with FCP using quicktime conversion. My original footage is 1920 x 1080 and I would like to to convert to 640 x 272. When I export I enter the desired size and tick "preserve aspect ratio". However the footage gets distorted. Can anyone help? Thanks, Jo

    What happens if you open the clip in QT player, then go into the movie properties window (cmd-J) then under the presentation tab change the aperture display mode to "production"?
    About QuickTime Aperture Display Modes
    QuickTime 7.1 and later supports four aperture display modes that allow you to properly display video with nonsquare pixels (such as DV video) in QuickTime Player and other applications that support these modes. The four aperture display modes in QuickTime are:
    - Classic
    - Clean
    - Production
    - Encoded Pixels
    To change the aperture display mode of a QuickTime movie:
    1 Make sure a QuickTime Pro registration code is entered in the Register tab of the QuickTime pane in System Preferences.
    2 Open a QuickTime movie in QuickTime Player.
    3 Choose Window > Show Movie Properties.
    4 In the Properties window, select the main movie track (not the video or sound tracks).
    5 Click Presentation, then choose an aperture mode from the “Conform aperture to” pop-up menu.

  • Aspect ratio issue not letterbox related

    i am running all video thru my receiver. my appletv outputs to my plasma TV w/black bars on either side of the picture. it appears it is output at 4:3 and not 16:9. i don't have this issue w/any of the other video inputs (dvd, cable tv). i don't see this as a tv or receiver issue/ can anyone offer any suggestions on fixing this? is there an output ratio adjust in apple tv?

    The content you are watching sounds like it is not widescreen but 4:3 format.
    When this is sent to the TV from the Apple TV via the HDMI cable it is shown on the TV in the aspect ratio that it was made. What you maybe able to do is make the TV stretch the signal to fill the full screen as it is doing when you use the VGA connections The issue here is that some TV's do not allow the TV signal to be stretched when fed via the HDMI port. It is not an issue with the Apple TV, it is outputting the signal correctly. See if you can adjust the TV to stretch the content to full screen.

Maybe you are looking for

  • Cannot encode for Blu-ray PP/Media Encoder CS6

    This problem seems to stretch across several products, but since the key issue seems to be round encoding I am posting here.  I have searched under various headings in several forums but cannot see an answer. I recently upgraded to CS6.  I am fairly

  • Recovery manager

    hi all after the problem happend with me (delete C with everything even recovery manager app) now i had install a cracked version of win 8 but i have in my hard the orginal win 8 thats comes with laptop hp probook 4540s .. now i need the recovery man

  • Aperture 3 problems syncing to iPhone

    I'm trying to sync "selected albums" from Aperture 3 in iTunes 9.0.3 and can't get the smart albums "In the last week" & "In the last month" to show any photos. They list 0 photos. Furthermore every time I sync, iTunes automatically unchecks the "In

  • Requirement Date in SC

    Hi Guys, In some SC I can choose Required 'ON' or 'From' or 'Between'. But in other SC there is no dropdown to select it and by default it is 'ON'. Where is the control for this? Debashish

  • Illustrator CC Crashes on Save, Why?

    Illustrator CC crashes upon saving using OS X 10.75 on a Mac, with Dual Core Intel Xeon processor and 5 MB of memory. Tahoma and Verdana fonts are intalled. Why is this happening? Any help would be appreciated. We cannot save a crash log, because the