Digitizing native 24P experience?

We are curious about people's experience with FCut Studio 2 and native 24P. The camera is a JVC GY-HD110 and the director has shot everything at HDV 720p, 24fps. I am going to be digitizing about 100 hours of footage on to an external 2 terabyte drive.
Do I need anything special aside from the latest version of Final Cut? Anything to watch out for? Thanks!

I have tons of native 24p editing, but not with JVC or HDV, but with Panasonic P2 cameras.
FYI, HDV cameras do not shoot NATIVE 24fps...they shoot 29.97 with pulldown to get you to 23.98. So make sure that you either remove the pulldown as you capture (look at the Easy Setups) or after you capture (Cinema Tools option in FCP).
24p monitoring with P2 needed to be done at 720p 59.94, because that is the DVCPRO HD format. Viewing at 24fps was flickery and aweful. Not sure how you do this with HDV...might just use the 720p 29.97 setting. BUt to view HDV on an external monitor you do need a High Def capture card.
Shane

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Export setting for HV40 native 24p?

I'm using the HV40 presets in Premiere CS3 for native 24p which work great, however when I export to DVD through Encore the only option I can see is "NTSC 23.976 Widescreen High Quality" which doesn't look very good no matter how much I bump up the quality settings, can someone tell me how to export my HV40 native 24p video to DVD and what presets or setting to use? Thanks.

Hi I'm not sure where you are getting at but this camera has a native 24p mode which allows 24 frames per second instead of the standard 60i to be captured and recorded, their previous cameras (the HV20 and HV30) record the 24p in “cinema mode” which is actually 60 interlaced frames to tape. This requires an extra step of running the captured media through some type of reverse telecine (like a pass through Compressor) to remove the extra pulldown frames. Since this new native 24p mode is still recording to tape, Premiere removes those flagged frames on the tape, on the fly, upon capture.
In any event I've tinkered with exporting using the 24 frame mode and it looks ok when the bitrate is bumped up to 8k at CBR and not a VBR 3-8 variation. Thanks for the replies, cheers.

How to see Canon HDV native 24p video on a CRT external monitor?

Mac Pro 2009, FCP 7, brand new install- I'm trying to view Canon HDV native 1080/24p video in my timeline via s-video to a JVC TM-H150C external 15" CRT monitor (or via component if I buy the additional JVC card). The footage is from a Canon HV40 camcorder.
I've spoken with BlackMagic Design and found that the Intensity Pro card CANNOT handle display of Canon HDV native 1080/24p on an external CRT monitor. Apparently the 24 frames per second rate is the problem. Some people on various forums have said that it can do 24p, but BMD says it cannot, and I can't confirm anything without plunking down $200 to test it myself. With all the various flavors of HDV out there, I can't go by what another user has experienced on his system.
I don't need a card for capture, only display, so I don't want to spend a fortune just to be able to use my little CRT production monitor to view the 24p video. What can I do? Is there a setting in FCP or a plugin that can do this?

The no cost way is to nest the 16:9 sequence in a 4:3 sequence. The 16:9 sequence should be letterboxed and will play back at the correct aspect ratio on the monitor.
Otherwise, you'll need a 3rd party device (AJA, Blackmagic, Matrox) to do the letterboxing for you.
x

24p questions

I am editing a feature-length documentary at the moment, using footage shot from a DVX-100. Everything was shot in 24p "normal", but I have been curious about whether or not the "Reverse Telecine" mode is worthwhile. I've been told that unless one goes to film out in the end, it's up to you.
Otherwise, I've noticed in "Reverse telecine" tests that the footage looks a bit unrefined and decidedly more "video like" than the straight-from-the-tape 24p footage. Any thoughts?
Also, if reverse telecine mode is the best option, do I edit on a 29.97 timeline or 24?

Telecine was the process whereby 24fps progressive movie footage was converted to (NTSC)60i television format. Reverse Telecine does the exact opposite - converts 60i footage to 24fps.
This is only useful if you have a 60i source which started life as 24p. Recent camcorders which have progressive 24fps modes, currently package the progressive frames into a 60i format. For some reason, native 24p format is something the manufacturers are slow to adopt.
24fps is a much-desired mode because 1) it emulates the look of film. And 2) it is not interlaced. Interlacing was a truly horrible hack invented in the mid 20th century to solve a number of problems with television electronics. Nowadays, few display devices display interlaced images properly although 60 fields-per-second does give smoother motion.
Progressive footage is better for digital workflows, visual-effects and looking like film.
SO....
Shoot using a 24fps mode.
Capture your footage with FCP using a 60i project.
Create a reverse telecine setting in Compressor. Perhaps using prores 422
Export all the clips to Compressor.
Batch convert em all.
Now create a NEW project in FCP with a 24fps and import your converted progressive footage.
It's a good idea to check the converted footage in Quicktime player.
If everything has worked you should see....
1) The playback info should report a 24fps source.
2) Each frame should be free of mouse-teeth (images where even and odd rows are from different moments in time)
3) When you single frame step through the footage, the movement should continue. You shouldn't see three frames of movement and one frame the same as the last.

Digital Audio w/Logitech Z-5500

Try as I might, I can't seem to get any digital audio out of the Mac Mini to my Logitech Z-5500 speaker system. I don't have the same problem with analog audio, just digital. It is my understanding that the combination of digital out directly from the Mini and the decoding built-in the Logitech should work ... maybe I am being a bit optimistic.
My current configuration is that I have the Mini connected directly to the Z-5500 control panel with a TOSLINK cable with the appropriate 3.5 mm adapter which I got from the Apple Store.
Here's what I tried so far with no success:
o Played several store-purchased DVDs, with known Digital Dolby and/or DTS audio tracks via Apple's DVD Player. I have also verified that the DVD Player was configured to use the "Digital Out - Built-in Output" setting for Audio output. The Z-5500 control panel shows a "No Digital Data" message. (To verify that the DVDs were good, I also played them from a Vista PC that was connected to the same Z-5500 speakers -- no problem.)
o Played music/movie sources from iTunes, knowing that I would be exercising QuickTime for audio output. Knowing that QT doesn't support digital natively, I have installed Perian. Within Perian, I have tried all the Audio Output options (Stereo, Dolby Pro Logic, Dolby Pro Logic II, & Multi-Channel). Still getting the "No Digital Data" message.
o Next I tried reconfiguring the Audio Output setting in Audio MIDI Setup. I verified the Source was set for Digital Out, and tried each of the Format combinations that were available. Still getting the "No Digital Data" message.
o Finally, I tried the com.cod3r.a52codec.plist "hack," creating a new variable named "attemptPassthrough" and setting is value to "1." Same message.
So, I must be missing something and can certainly appreciate any words of wisdom from anyone with similar experiences with the Mini and the Z-5500.
Thanks in advance.

No problems. Any/all advice is truly appreciated.
So the PC can play audio through those speakers? That's a clue. Can you see the settings that PC is using to talk?
Yes, the PC can play any audio source (games, DVDs, Media Player, etc.) digitally to these speakers. The primary difference that I can think of is the PC employs a Creative Xi-Fi Fatal1ty Platinum PCI card which is Dolby Digital Live capable for encoding whereas I am using the encoder(s) (DVD player, Perian, etc.) on the Mini.
Did you look at the "Configure Speakers" button in Audio Midi Setup to verify that it is configured for multi-channel output?
Hmm, you may be onto something here. Yes, I did check to see that the Audio Output was set for Encoded Digital, but I didn't confirm multi-channel under Configure Speakers. Selecting this option and going to the Multichannel tab will only allow me to select "Stereo." All the other selections are grayed-out. In addition, when I do select "Encoded Digital" for Audio Output Format, both the Default & System Output windows display "Unknown device" instead of "Built-in Output."
Are those cables Apple branded? Something about the length of the mini-plug on some brands IIRC.
I believe so. I did get them directly from the online Apple Store. They're approximately 3' in length and off-white in color. Part number on the Packing List was given as: TL955LL/A and their description was: XTREMEMAC TOSLINK OPTICAL AUDIOACCS
Thanks again!

1080i/24p to Film Out in Final Cut Pro

A client of ours shot a project with the *Panasonic HVX-200* in 1080i/24p (not 1080i/24pa) and they are asking if they will have a problem with the footage when they output to film. They are using *Final Cut Studio 2* on an *8-core Mac Pro*.
I told them to use *Cinema Tools* to reverse telecine the 29.97 footage back to the native 24p and they shouldn't have problems. They said I was wrong and that frames would be lost in the process. (Which I know isn't how 3:2 pull-downs work) They also said that they did this before and the 1080i footage they got from the HVS-200 P2 cards and FS-100's were already in 24p format when transfered. Is there a way that this was possible or am I missing something here?
Thanks!

You are right, they are wrong, very, very, very wrong. I'm going to copy and paste from another thread I just answered about this same issue:
I am the author of the FS-100 DVD guide, work with Focus Enhancements closely, have many consulting clients using this system, and have been using the HVX200/FS-100/FCP system since the HVX200 shipped, and a cert'd trainer.
As for FCP, here's the workflow. To start, make sure your HVX is set to 1080i/24PA. If it is set to 1080i/24P, you won't get 24p, you'll get 60i with the 24P effect. Just like on the DVX100. 24P results in a native 60i with the 24P effect, as 24PA has metadata that allows it to become progressive and 24P native.
In FCP, bring in your footage with the Log & Transfer window, assuming you're on FCP 6. Any pre-6 version was super buggy with P2 data. Make sure the "remove advanced pulldown" is selected and import your footage. Ignore the "Compressor" that is referred to in the clips info (which is all the metadata), it will not say 1080p24, it only refers to the compression engine handling the footage, not the actual compression of the clip.
In your project, delete any Sequences you have, in the FCP menu go to Easy Setup, and choose "DVCPRO HD - 1080pA24". Create a new Sequence and you're good to go. Simple as that.
If you go to look at "Item Properties" for these clips, look at the "Vid Rate" field, it will be 24p. The "Compressor" field refers to an engine and has nothing to do with the actual format of the clip, ignore it. The 1080p30 you see as the "Compressor" simply means that the QuickTime 1080p30 engine is being used, and is perfectly capable of driving native 1080p24 footage.
The lines you're seeing on 1080p24 are interlace lines, and are normal, as 1080p24 is, again, 60i with the 24p "effect". You have to record in, and edit in 1080pA24. There's a big difference.

FCP 6 and Sony HVR-V1U 24p; can't remove 3:2 pulldown or convert to 24 fps

Hi, all, I'm hoping someone can help me out here. I recently purchased a Sony HVR-V1U HD camera that has a native 24p setting (using 60i with 3:2 pulldown to store on miniDV tape).
I have just started experimenting with pulling footage off this camera into Final Cut Pro (6.0.3), and am having some problems getting things to work using log-and-capture. Specifically, it seems I can either choose the ProRes 422 setting and effectively use a "capture now" capturing method--which gets me native 24 (or 23.98 if 24pa is used) frames per second--or I can use the 60i setup--which gets me the standard log-and-capture window where I can actually log my clips, but brings them in at 29.97 fps.
I would make due with the 60i setting since that allows me to batch capture clips I want from my footage... however, I am not able to alter the frame rate or remove the 3:2 pulldown using cinema tools (I get a "unable to find clips with 29.97 fps" error, when the properties clearly list the clips as having 29.97 fps).
Can anyone help here? I'm quite accustomed to using the log and capture window so the "capture now" method seems very inconvenient; but if I can't get the clips transcoded to 24fps somehow I'm not sure what else I can do.
Thanks in advance!
John

Capturing HDV uses a somewhat different workflow than regular DV and other I Frame formats (if that is what you have been used to so far).
[Read this|http://documentation.apple.com/en/finalcutpro/professionalformatsandworkfl ows/#chapter=2%26section=0] to make sure that you are doing it right and not missing something along the way.

Macbook Pro and 24p output

Hi,
I've got a 2008 macbook pro with a geforce 8600M GT connected to my Panasonic 37lzd85f via HDMI to DVI cable. The screen supports 24p so the only thing i need to chance is the 24p output on the macbook.
is there any possibility to set the output to 24p?
thanks in advance

Hi mawxi,
I have the same problem and i resurged the topic nearly two weeks now. For me it's important to play video native 24p and audio with SPDIF 5.1
My way:
1.) OSX: There is only the way to buy the software "switchresX". I found no other way to change the frequency to 24Hz. If tested it and it worked.
--> If anyone know more please share the information with us!
2.) Vista: I used bootcamp to install Vista. After installing all vista updates, i downloaded the nvidia driver "nvidia 8900M GT" from the nvidia homepage. It worked and there i can choose the 24Hz.
Now i searched the audio driver and the Wifi driver. (Normally those drivers should be included at the OSX disc but not at my one) I found them here:
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/Home.aspx
Yes! You have to use the internet Explorer, but here you find all you need.
search: "Broadcom 802" for Wifi and "Realtek" for audio, sort the list by Date.
Well, now i can use my 2000€ MacBook Pro to watch 24p movies with 5.1 sound on my fullhd beamer and 7.1 yamaha receiver.

What is the best way to work with AVCHD 720 24p footage in FCE4.1?

Hi I have a Panasonic HMC-150 and I've been shooting 720 24p footage at 21 mbps transfer rate.
I was wondering what is the best way to work with this material in FCE 4.1? I see that in the easy set up menu they only have the option of 1440X1080i at 50 or 60 fps or 1920X1080i at 50 or 60 fps.
Also in the rates drop down menu there is only 50 or 29.97.
So I was wondering which is the best choice for 720 24p footage and will it look alright in any of them? Also is it possible to customize these settings?
And finally can you work with faster transfer rates (21mbps) in FCE?

Yikes, this is going to be tricky since FCE does not support native 24p editing.
The work around for some of us is that AVCHD material that is 24p is often recorded to disc at 60i using telecine, in which case it can be editing at 29.97 frames per second, and then detelecined afterward for final export at 23.98 fps. The problem is that I think your camera actually records real 24p - not 24p packed into 60i. When you import the material from the camera what does QuickTime report the framerate as?

HELP - PULL-DOWN ISSUE WORKING WITH ARCHIVAL FILM IN 24P

Bear with me here... I'm working on a historical doc for a local PBS station. Camera footage was originated using the HDX 200 in 720p-24n. Much of the program uses old 16mm film that's been xfer'd to an uncompressed video file using the 16mm "Sniper" (a psuedo-telecine transfer system. The system scans the film frames into a pc one at a time and stores the images as a single movie file using a proprietary codec). You can tell the Sniper's software what frame rate the original film footage was shot at - i.e. 18fps, 24fps and so-on. However, when you export it back out it only outputs to a 29.97 interlaced file.
Here's the problem: The film I'm working with was originated at 18fps - not 24. But, I'm working with a 24p sequence. I need to convert the footage so that it plays cleanly in a 24p environment. But I can't run it through CT and do a reverse telecine to remove the pull-down because that's designed for footage that was originated at 24fps only. When I try to do it on footage that was shot at 18fps, I end up with a wierd flashing/banding thing as it tries to apply a 24 frame pull-down to an 18 frame image.
I'm thinking that there has to be a plug-in either for FCP, CT or for the Sniper that can work a pull-down from 18fps film to 24p video.
Anyone have any ideas?
Tim Walton
KVIE Public Television

Yeah, I thoought of that. But I kinda wanted to keep the program in native 24p if I could.
If I did it that way, wouldn't I have to go ahead and edit the program in 24p, then export it out at 29.97, then re-import it into a 29.97 Sequence and finally add the archive material?

Reverse 3:2 Pulldown to convert AVCHD PF24 to 24P proper?

Hi Everyone,
Does anyone know if Final Cut Pro X has the ability to natively convert video shot in PF24 and convert it to a true 24 frames per second? Proper de-interlacing is a must.
I have a Canon HF20 and I love it except for the fact that it doesn't have a native 24P mode. My old Adobe Premiere CS5 flow I set up has a few 3rd party scripts that can chew on the video overnight and spit out beautiful 24P footage after doing a proper 3:2 reverse pulldown, but the process takes forever and the output AVIs are massive... too big to be practical to be used on my Macbook Pro.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Mike

I doubt FCP X can do it but I don't know and I'm sure someone who does will correct me if I'm wrong. That being said, there's a way to do it that requires converting the video with Compressor first. So you'd need to spend the extra US$49 for Compressor if you don't have it.
There is an Apple Support Article on how to do this same thing for the Canon HV20 which shoots HDV PF24. The article is a few years old and focuses on FCP 6 and the version of Compressor that shipped with it. So you might need to change a few things if you're using a newer version of Compressor. I haven't tried it with Compressor 4 but it should still work.

Best digital camera and camcorder...

What are some good budget digital camcorders and a digital camera for the MacBook? My wife and I are expecting our first child in December and we're both in college (I have a degree in visual communications, and I'm going back for computer programming), and she's going for nursing.
We're kind of tight on money fixing up our house and getting things ready for the baby, and I've got 'proud parent disease' where I wanna take pictures and video tape EVERYTHING all the time.
Any suggestions?

My suggestion is to not cheap out on a digital camera (no experience with camcorders). It may save you money up front but the quality of the product may come back to bite you (much like getting a Windows PC versus a Mac ).
I use this review site: http://www.steves-digicams.com/
I'm not an expert, but among my circle of very amateur photography friends Canon is considered to have the best quality lenses and image processors. I myself went with a Canon PowerShot A540, a 6-megapixel consumer model, and it's been great. The A-series filled all of my requirements--took AA-type batteries instead of expensive proprietary ones, had features that the super-compact line didn't, including good basic video recording (for quick clips), and it wasn't as bulky as an SLR or "prosumer" model. My brother and another friend got the A540's less expensive sister, the A530; the only reasons I didn't go with that was the smaller screen and the video recording wasn't as good.
I'd avoid Kodak and HP branded cameras, as well as any generic brands. Most everyone else should be decent too, including Sony, Fuji, Olympus, etc.
G4 dual-533 Mac OS X (10.4.6)

24p editing Mac Elements 11

I've scoured the blogs and it seems as though there is no way to capture and edit HDV true 24p (no dropdowns) into elements 11.
When I tried it defaults to 29.97 and plays video approx 20% faster than audio.
I see there was a downloadble 'preset' patch avail along the way but only for Windows.
For fun, I even tried to trick it into a capture with preset PAL 25fps preset (which is available) and it still shows clips at 29.97.
Maybe I am msiing something or it is just not a feature in Elements (?)
(btw- I have also read the 'why did you film in artsy fartsy 24p' stuff)
I am new to this so try to forgive any uneducated terms or understanding.
If you can offer help, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks.

By HDV, I assume you're talking about tape-based high-def video and not AVCHD or some other high-def format.
If that is the case, Premiere Elements can not edit this type of video in its native 24p. In the Elements version of Premiere, HDV can only be edited in 30i.

FCP 5 and 24p camera

I use final cut pro 5.04 and a panasonic DVX-100a and im lookin for ways to optimize the 24p experience in final cut. Can I get information on using 24p cameras with final cut.

http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/24p_in_FCPnattress.html
Shane

IMovie 08, the Canon HV20, & 24p?

Although iMovie 08 has been highly disappointing (less functionality, timelines, etc) can it natively capture video from the Canon HV20 that has been recorded in 24p "Cinema mode"? If not, is there a plugin to do the pulldown required for capturing and editing, and are the results equal to native 24p capturing and editing? If not, I'll have to use iMovie HD all the time - too much functionality was taken out it in iMovie 08.

I use HV20 all the time with iMovie 06 and 08. Like many has pointed out the only thing 24p about HV20 is its sensor. It can scan 24fps progressively but records to tape as 60i using pulldown and the result is '24p looking video playback' on 60i system - just like many movie DVDs where the source is 24p but stored as 60i.
If you want true 24p editing you need to use NLE that supports 24p timeline, which no consumer level NLE does, and you should convert 60i clips back to 24p via a process called reverse-telecine. So for most of us Hv20 would work just fine with iMovie 06 or 08 as is.
As for low light performance of HV20, it is a little bit better than other cams in this class when you use 24p mode because the shutter can open for longer time allowing more light in. But any consumer HD cameras suffer from bad low light performance so don't expect HV20 to do any miracles.

Digitizing native 24P experience?

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