Import von Bildern aus Aperture nach Lightroom 5 (Windows-Version)

Hallo Leute
Habe seit heute auf Ligtroom5 gewechselt. Nun meine Frage:
Ist es auch möglich mit dem von Adobe bereitgestellten Tool Bilder aus Aperture nach Ligtroom 5 in der Windows-Version zu importieren? Da mein Mac langsam den Geist aufgibt und nicht genügend Platz für die Programme zur Verfügung stehen
habe ich mich für die Windows-Version entschieden. Hier habe ich ein System mit zwei SSD's und auch genügend RAM damit das Arbeiten in LR und PS Spass macht.
Danke schon vorab für eure Tipps.

Glaub ich nicht. Wenn, dann muss das mit Sicherheit auf dem Mac gemacht werden und dann der konvertierte LR Katalog auf Windoof übertragen werden. sehe da aber kein Probelm, da ja jede LR-Lizenz Crossplatform ist und die Demoversion auch voll funktionsfähig...
Mylenium

Similar Messages

  • Bonjour, chaque fois que j'essaie d'importer ma bibliothèque Aperture dans Lightroom, tout se bloque à 26%

    Bonjour, chaque fois que j'essaie d'importer ma bibliothèque Aperture dans Lightroom, tout se bloque à 26%. Une idée ?

    Bonjour Loic,
    Je te remercie pour ta réponse. Je réponds moi aussi un peu tardivement, ayant quelque peu laissé le problème de côté en attendant de trouver une solution. Mais merci pour ton retour.
    Ton approche est en effet très intéressante, je n'avais pas du tout pensé à aborder le problème sous cet angle !
    En revanche, j'ai du mal à imaginer comment retravailler ma base de données de façon à ce qu'elle entre dans le cadre de ce que tu proposes.
    Actuellement, pour résumer, ma base est grossièrement organisée de la sorte :
    Produit
    P2O5
    N
    Zn
    CaO
    Mgo
    Produit 1
    23
    3,2
    1,2
    Produit 2
    4,3
    2,2
    Produit 3
    26
    Chaque colonne correspond donc à une balise XML, et mon code XML donne donc par exemple ceci :
    <BLOC>
         <Produit>
                   <NomProduit>Produit 1</NomProduit>
                 <P2O>23</P2O5>
                 <Zn>3,2</Zn>
              <CaO>,2,2</CaO>
         </Produit>
          <Produit>
                   <NomProduit>Produit 2</NomProduit>
                 <N>4,3</N>
                 <MgO>2,2</MgO>
         </Produit>
          <Produit>
                   <NomProduit>Produit 3</NomProduit>
                 <N>26</N>
        </Produit>
    </BLOC>
    Comment retravailler ma base, de façon à ce que les différentes valeurs <quantité> correspondent aux bon termes <elements> pour chaque produit, et comment inclure différentes valeurs <quantité> et <element> pour un seul et même produit dans ma base ?
    J'ai du mal à visionner comment réaliser cela..!
    Je te remercie d'avance pour ta réponse,
    Fabien

  • Ein Import von Bildern, die mit Iphone erstellt wurden ist nicht möglich. Es erscheint nur ein grünes Fenster. Was ist zu tun?

    Ein Import von Bildern in IMovie ist nicht möglich. Es erscheint anstatt des Bildes nur ein grünes Fenster. Was ist zu tun?

    Wenn man eine "Rescue email Adresse" aufgesetzt hat, kann man die Sicherheitsabfragen bei "MyApple ID" https://appleid.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MyAppleId.woa/ zurücksetzen: Dann bekommt man eine email von Apple an die "Rescue Adresse" und kann die Fragen und Antworten neu einrichten.
    Ohne Recue email Adresse hilft nur der Anruf bei AppleCare http://support.apple.com/kb/HE57); die können die Antworten zurücksetzen.

  • Habe PSE9 Neu und kämpfe mit dem Laden von Bildern aus meiner Festplatte,

    Habe PSE9 neu und möchte Bilder aus meiner ext. Festplatte Laden.
    Bei PSE5 (war meine letzte version) war es ganz einfach- jetzt such ich mich dumm u. dämlich, ne ordentliche Hilfe gibts ja auch nicht - oder?
    Bitte um Hilfe.
    Pa

    Hallo, veröffentlichtes Sie auf der AIR-Foren. Würden Sie bitteUmbuchung auf das Photoshop Elements Forum? Jemand sollte eshelfen zu können.
    Danke,
    Chris

  • I downloaded Adobe immigration software for Aperture, opened Lightroom, but the Aperture library was grayed out so it couldn't be selected to import. How do I get it to work? I only have a few days left on the test version of Lightroom to see how it works

    I downloaded Adobe immigration software for Aperture, opened Lightroom, but the Aperture library was grayed out so it couldn't be selected to import. How do I get it to work? I only have a few days left on the test version of Lightroom to see how it works with my Aperture library.

    Gracias photo-enthusiast por tu respuesta pero hay docenas de de usuarios que tienen esta mismo problema, me da la sensación que nos tomas por gagas que no tenemos ni idea de lo que tenemos entre manos.
    Me alegro enormemente que no hayas tenido tu este problema.

  • Aperture to Lightroom Export/Import question

    For those who have done the Aperture - Lightroom move (for whatever reason), did you use the built-in Aperture to Lightroom importer that I understand is part of of LR5 or did you use a third-party exporter like Aperture Exporter?
    What were your reasons for your choice? My Aperture library is around 68,000 photos, but only around 3,000 show up when I check as "adjusted", so my main concern is trying to maintain some semblance of my folder structure and things like keywords, ratings, etc.
    Thanks. Steve

    I tried the plug-in (got a trial version of LR5) and after making sure that my entire Aperture Library was referenced, started it - and made sure to tell it to leave the files where they were! To my dismay (1) a lot of photos that I would have expected to be imported came back with errors - even though the ORF Olympus RAW file was a supported camera and more importantly (2) a lot of my photos that were in particular folders, now found themselves in folders based upon the date the photo was either taken or imported into Aperture. Now I read about this - but it is only supposed to happen if you had a managed library and then LR would move the image files into folders based upon dates.
    My library had about 68,000 images and after about 6 hours it was up to 30% or so, so I just clicked on DONE to see how it was handling my folder structure.
    I am now trying with an application called Aperture Exporter (they have a trial version, but it has limitations on how many photos it will import) and it seems to be handling the export much better. It is keeping my folder structure intact, keeping my metadata (mainly keywords) and any photo that had adjustments in Aperture applied it gives you the option of exporting the original RAW/JPEG file along with a copy of the adjusted one - either as a JPEG or TIFF. Only "issue" would be that you have to have enough hard drive space to duplicate - at least initially - your entire photo library. Don't see an issue to do the export one folder or project at a time (at least not in the demo version).

  • Löschoptionen nach Import von Kamera

    Hallo Forum User,
    anbei mal eine Frage zu Adobe Photoshop Elements 10. Wenn ich Bilder von meiner Digitalkamera Canon EOS 7D über den
    Organizer nach PSE importiere mit der Option "Originale nach Kopiervorgang löschen" werden diese nach dem Importvorgang von der Kamera
    auch gelöscht. Wenn ich den Import mit der Option "Kopierte Dateien überprüfen und Originale löschen" werden die Bilder zwar importiert
    aber leider nicht von der Kamera gelöscht :-( . Mache ich was falsch ?
    Vielleicht hat ja jemand eine Idee,
    Vielen Dank im Voraus,
    Gruß
    Huckleberry

    Den Import von ID finde ich allgemein sehr mangel- und fehlerhaft. Neben den Problemen mit RTF kann ich z.B. auch kein einziges DOCX-Dokument importieren. Egal ob ich das DOCX mit OO speichere oder den hauseigenen Microsoft-Konverter nehme, ID zeigt mir immer nur ein paar Sekunden die Eieruhr und danach passiert nichts mehr. Ich komme da nicht mal bis zum Import-Dialog.
    Schon fast frech finde ich da dann auch die InDesign-Hilfe, die in solchen (offenbar bekannten) Fällen rät, die Dateien doch als DOC zu speichern.
    Liebe Leute von Adobe, so geht das nicht! Ich finde die Neuerungen von CS4 gerade bei ID auch sehr nützlich und störe mich nicht so sehr an dem Update-Preis; schon in CS3 und vermutlich auch früher bekannte Fehler zu beheben, sollte aber euer wichtigstes Anliegen sein. So langsam komme ich mir wie früher mit Word vor, wo Microsoft auch manchen Bug Generationen lang durch das Programm geschleppt hat.

  • How do I import images from Aperture into Lightroom 5?

    I've just installed Lightroom 5 onto my Mac.  I waited for it to ask me which image management software I wanted to use as default (I currently use Aperture); then I went looking to find the 'source' to enable me to import images.  It doesn't recognise Aperture or the 3000+ images held in its folders.
    How can I import the images?

    Have you tried some of the online articles?
    e.g. http://lightroomsolutions.com/articles/migrating-from-aperture-to-lightroom-where-do-i-beg in/

  • Import von Pfaden in Indesign aus Illustrator

    Hallo,
    der Import von Pfaden in Indesign aus Illustrator (mit Bildnachzeichner in Illustrator erstellt) funtioniert seit heute nicht mehr. Bekomme Fehlermeldung in Indesign: Illustrator-Import ist fehlgeschlagen. Das Album enthält keine sichtbaren Objekte.Import von Pfaden in Indesign aus Illustrator (mit Bildnachzeichner in Illustrator erstellt) funtioniert seit heute nicht mehr. Bekomme Fehlermeldung in Indesign: Illustrator-Import ist fehlgeschlagen. Das Album enthält keine sichtbaren Objekte. Habe cc2014 heute aktualisiert :-(

    ich habe in Illustrator ein Bild mit dem Bildnachzeichner erstellt (Silhouetten). Früher war das Ergebniss in Illustrator ein Pfad mit einer Farbe von 100% Schwarz, die dann einfach per copy + paste von Illustrator in Indesign eingefügt werden konnte.
    Jetzt habe ich in Illustrator als Objektart ein nachgezeichnetes Bild und eine zusammengesetzte Form (Pfad). Wenn ich jetzt alles komplett markiere oder nur den Pfad oder den Pfad nochmal kopiere und mit 100% Schwarz fülle und in Indesign einfügen will, kommt diese oben beschriebene Meldung.
    Vielleicht hat es mit der Umwandlung in Illustrator zu tun, was wurde dort zur CC 2014 Version geändert??
    Gruß Anja

  • Import von Fotos in den PSE 12 organizer

    Import von Fotos in den PSE 12 organizer:
    Nach auskunft des support kann PSE 12 die fotos nicht mehr aus der iPhoto libary laden. Wie kann ich meine bilder jetzt aus iPhoto bzw. aperture in den organiser importieren?
    Danke für die hilfe!

    Ich vermute mal, dies hängt mit der automatischen Sommer/Winterzeit-Umstellung unter Windows zusammen. Du kannst ja mal versuchen, diese in der Systemsteuerung probeweise zu deaktivieren (während der Sommerzeit!), um die Wirkung zu sehen. Windoof zeigt dann alle Dateien -1 h an.
    Ganz klar warum PSE4 aber nicht die Exif-Daten als Referenz nimmt, oder man dies auch nicht explizit auswählen kann, finde ich mangelhaft. Eine Funktion "EXIF-Datumsangaben" benutzen, wäre wohl das mindeste..

  • IPhoto, Aperture and Lightroom

    The basic question - should I stay with iPhoto or move over to Aperture or Lightroom? I've done a ton of reading on the web and end up with more questions than I started with! Some of the reading included http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2007/03/05/aperture-vs-lightoom.html and http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/digitalmedia/2007/03/05/aperture-v s-lightoom.html?page=1
    Background stuff: I have been a long time user of iPhoto plus iPhoto Buddy which allows me to manage several iPhoto libraries (actually about 15). My photography is of three very different types - the first type being family and friends which are mostly candid shots that document the moment and are often a tad short on the artistic side. The second type is when I try to be Ed the Serious Amateur (my website http://blueorbimages.com/index.htm#). The third type consists of photos I use in reports I create for the consulting work I do - overseeing the proper construction of building exteriors for large buildings such as hotel, office buildings and hospitals. These photos are purely documentary. I have been shooting jpegs but am now shooting RAW for my serious work and jpegs for the Family stuff. In switching over to RAW I also took a hand at using Adobe Bridge as I use PS CS3 along with a lot of the other CS3 components - Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks, etc. While Bridge is a good file organizer I started to look at Lightroom as a better tool. I also have been looking at Aperture for the same reason. I am now leaning toward Aperture in part due to the ability to "manage" my current iPhoto files, the "versions" feature and the preservation of the original. As stated before - I also have a number of unanswered questions:
    I use SuperSlideshow Pro for creating my web pages. I want to keep the "slideshow" format - am I correct in that Aperture only produces thumbnail type galleries?
    From what I've seen on this forum I have concluded that I will be better served to export/import all my iPhoto images to Aperture rather than access the iPhoto images via references - is this correct?
    Two features in iPhoto that I use frequently are to email images (often reducing the file size) and to export images for resizing for other purposes - insert in Word reports, upload to a photo forum that I belong to (Photozo.com), merge into a data base I created in Filemaker for managing the printing, framing and displaying of my work at various exhibits. Are these features available in Aperture?
    I'm a big user of Photoshop for my consulting work as well as my serious photography - cropping, color balance, adding text and symbols and the precise management of color in the printing process - I do most of my own printing on an Epson 2200. How easily can I go from Aperture to PS and back to Aperture?
    I get a feeling that MacWorld SF 2008 may give us an update to Aperture - any thoughts here?
    Any other issues I should consider?
    BTW my Mac is an Intel 2 x 2.66 dual core with 7GB RAM, 30" Apple display and a 21" Samsung display and 1.5 TB disk space spread over 3 drives. I feel I should have no problems with horsepower, monitor real estate or storage space when using Aperture. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
    Thanks in advance for any and all input/comments.
    Ed

    I use SuperSlideshow Pro for creating my web pages. I want to keep the "slideshow" format - am I correct in that Aperture only produces thumbnail type galleries?
    Correct, although there are export plug-ins for Gallery etc.
    From what I've seen on this forum I have concluded that I will be better served to export/import all my iPhoto images to Aperture rather than access the iPhoto images via references - is this correct?
    I never had enough images in iPhoto to know, hopefully others can answer.
    Two features in iPhoto that I use frequently are to email images (often reducing the file size) and to export images for resizing for other purposes - insert in Word reports, upload to a photo forum that I belong to (Photozo.com),
    Aperture has an 'email image' function, you can set quality/size etc. For use in other apps such as Word you will either need to turn on Preview generation (with a performance hit) and will be able to drag-n-drop directly, or you will need to export Versions as needed to the Finder and then import to the other app.
    merge into a data base I created in Filemaker for managing the printing, framing and displaying of my work at various exhibits. Are these features available in Aperture?
    There's an Aperture-to-Filemaker export plug-in, but as I don't use Filemaker I've no idea how useful it will be. If you are relatively knowledgeable when it comes to AppleScript you should be able to set up your own copying of data between the two apps.
    Note that LightRoom has no scriptability +at all+, and only gained the ability to add export plug-ins in the most recent version, so there aren't many yet.
    I'm a big user of Photoshop for my consulting work as well as my serious photography - cropping, color balance, adding text and symbols and the precise management of color in the printing process - I do most of my own printing on an Epson 2200. How easily can I go from Aperture to PS and back to Aperture?
    Reasonably easily, but it's going to involve 16-bit uncompressed files so will use up HD space quickly. You shouldn't need to be doing any cropping or colour balancing in PS as that can be done first in Aperture.
    I get a feeling that MacWorld SF 2008 may give us an update to Aperture - any thoughts here?
    It seems likely...
    BTW my Mac is an Intel 2 x 2.66 dual core with 7GB RAM, 30" Apple display and a 21" Samsung display and 1.5 TB disk space spread over 3 drives.
    A minimum of 2GB RAM and as good a graphics card as you can afford...
    Ian

  • Unterschiedliche Optionen zum Einfügen von Bildern in Acrobat X Pro/Standard?

    Hallo,
    habe in der Firma Acrobat X Standard, zuhause Acrobat X Pro.
    Ich suche aktuell eine Möglichkeit Bilder einzufügen und bei Bedarf schnell wieder auszutauschen. Zuhause habe ich endlich eine einfache Option gefunden, nämlich über  Werkzeuge -  Inhalt - Objekt auswählen/bearbeiten. Damit kann ich Bilder schnell und verlustfrei aus einer Datei oder der Zwischenablage an jede Stelle des PDFs einfügen und beliebig skalieren.
    Mit der Standardversion in der Firma funktioniert das leider nicht, hier fehlt "Objekt bearbeiten". Somit können schon eingefügte Bilder nicht mehr aus dem PDF glöscht oder durch andere ersetzt werden.
    Meine Frage:
    Besteht dieser Unterschied wirklich zwischen der Standdard und der Pro Version oder ist nur das Handling anders, wenn ja wie?
    Vielen Dank!
    Uwe Neul
    Nachricht geändert durch uweneul
    Hello,
    have in the firm Acrobat Standard, Acrobat Pro at home.
    I am looking for a way to insert images to date and, if needed quickly replaced. At home I have finally found an easy option, namely, via Tools - content - choose Edit Object /. So I can insert images quickly and without loss of a file or the clipboard to any part of the PDF and any scale.
    With the standard version of the company that does not work, here is missing the "Edit Object". Thus you have inserted images are no longer glöscht from the PDF or replaced by others.
    My question is:
    There is this difference between the real and the other Standdard Pro version, or is only the handling if so how?
    Thank you!
    Uwe Neul

    Hallo,
    vielen Dank für die schnellle Antwort,
    Gibt es denn eine überhaupt eine Möglichkeit in der Standardversion zum Einfügen von Bildern?
    Aktuell erstellen wir die Dukumente in Word und konvertieren dann ins PDF-Format. Leider ist die Erkennung von Textfeldern nicht immer erfolgreich und es bedarf zu viel Nacharbeit.
    Ich würde als Anfänger die Formulare daher lieber mit einem leeren Formular direkt in Acrobat starten.

  • Work with both: iPhoto and Aperture (or Lightroom)

    I have iLife '09 and the newest MacBook pro with Leopard (last edition) and I am New in Apple Scene.
    All my photos now are imported in iPhoto. How can I organize lot of photos, when I want to work with Aperture (or Lightroom)? Do I need then iPhoto? Or only organize all photos in Aperture?

    Aperture, Lightroom and iPhoto all cover the same ground in different ways.
    iPhoto is aimed at the domestic market. It's very user friendly and works very well with Point and Shoot cameras especially.
    Both AP and LR are focussed firmly on the Pro Shooter shooting high volumes of RAW. They both have significant learning curves.
    That said, there is much to be gained as an Amateur photographer using either app if you are shooting RAW. Much less so if you you're shooting jpeg.
    You can download trials of both AP and LR.
    AP works in a limited fashion with iPhoto. You can share your Previews with iPhoto, for instance, and there is a facility to easily migrate from iPhoto to Aperture. You can migrate an entire library or just particular photos.
    LR is utterly unaware of iPhoto. There is a third party plug-in that facilitates exporting from LR to iPhoto. There is no easy way to migrate from iPhoto to LR.
    Subject to the caveats above about shooting RAW: I would use Aperture as the primary organisational and processing app. I choose AP because it's much more powerful that iPhoto and because it has excellent OS integration entirely missing from LR.
    Regards
    TD

  • Finder vs. Aperture/iPhoto/Lightroom et al

    I’ve tried everything from iPhoto to Lightroom to Aperture, but have found happiness with Finder+Tags. I offer this “solution” for image organization and archiving for anybody who is interested.
    Caveat: this is a narrowly defined system that works best, for me, under these conditions.
    I shoot in RAW, so conversion is always a primary component of any process
    I use the Desktop for initial organization, but also works by importing directly to any spot on your HD for review
    I do all my RAW conversion in Adobe Camera Raw and editing in Photoshop for layering and compositing reasons
    This is a low volume workflow, one image is edited at a time, no batch processing
    Having said all that, the simple Finder Tag workflow using colors as categories:
    Import images   > Desktop folder  >  Name and Tag folder YELLOW  > Tag images RED for conversion/editing > Delete untagged images
    RED Tagged image > ACR > Photoshop > Edit > Save & Tag (GREEN + PURPLE or GREY)  and change RAW original from RED to ORANGE
    Files keep the camera file name + Tags; Folders are arranged by simple 4-digit code (MM/DD) + Tag YELLOW (still editing one or more images) or GREEN (finished editing).
    That's it. It's simple and it works. For me. But I'm always open for any comments/criticism and suggestions on how to make it work better.
    Brian

    To get an idea of the benefits of Aperture and Lightroom you might visit the DAM (digital asset management) forum and see what they say about those applications over there.
    The DAM Forum
    TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto (iPhoto.Library for iPhoto 5 and earlier) database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.
    I've created an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger or later), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. It's compatible with iPhoto 6 and 7 libraries and Tiger and Leopard. iPhoto does not have to be closed to run the application, just idle. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.
    Note: There now an Automator backup application for iPhoto 5 that will work with Tiger or Leopard.

  • Aperture vs Lightroom: any head-to-head comparisons/reviews?

    I've spent a good deal of time looking for a head-to-head comparison of Apple's Aperture and Adobe's Lightroom and haven't been able to find anything. Can anyone point to to something?
    I'm an amateur photographer who is progressing toward semi-professional (from a hobby standpoint anyway). I've been thinking about "upgrading" from iPhoto to Aperture or Lightroom. I've downloaded the demos of both but at this point I'm a little overwhelmed at figuring out which I like better (I know it's ultimately my decision, but would like to see some sort of comparison of the two). I use Photoshop Elements, but tend to be a bit of an Apple fanboy, so am leaning toward Aperture.
    Thanks for your thoughts....

    This looks interesting.
    The Showdown: Apple Aperture and Adobe Photoshop Lightroom
    A new breed of software has recently emerged that promises to shift the digital photography landscape. Designed to streamline and integrate the digital workflow, Apple’s Aperture and Adobe’s Photoshop Lightroom represent an exciting new generation of imaging applications.
    What sets Aperture and Lightroom apart from the current stock of programs is the unwavering focus on digital photography, integrating the most critical aspects of the digital workflow from image import, metadata management, and cataloging to image correction and output.
    But how well do these applications capture the nuances of the typical professional workflow? How do they compare with existing applications? And what does it take to integrate these applications into your existing operations?
    Join us in March for a highly instructive and information-packed evening as we jump headlong into both Aperture and Lightroom and discover the nuts and bolts of how these applications work. You’ll learn how these programs were designed from the ground up to help you tame the digital avalanche and help you manage, select, and output your best images.
    You’ll also learn how Aperture and Lightroom fit in with your existing tools ranging from raw converters to digital asset managers such as Microsoft iView Media Pro and Extensis Portfolio. You’ll discover when it makes sense to perform image manipulation within Aperture and Lightroom, and when you’ll need to turn to a higher-end image manipulation program, such as Photoshop, for advanced adjustments.
    Our panelists will provide expert advice on how to use advanced new features in both programs to quickly examine hundreds of images, and how to organize your libraries for maximum flexibility and efficiency. You’ll also learn about new high impact options for outputting your images to print or the Web.
    So be sure to join us in March for a lively and comprehensive exploration these two exciting new applications. You’ll come away with a good understanding of what these applications do, and how they compare with existing tools you are already using. You’ll also discover time-saving tips and learn important best practices that will help you maximize efficiency and capitalize on the state of the art in digital tools.
    Speakers:
    TBA
    Sponsors:
    TBA
    Venue:
    Blue Sky Rental Studios
    2325 Third St.
    San Francisco, CA 94107
    415.626.7232
    Date:
    Tuesday, March 13
    7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
    Social hour: 6:00 p.m.
    Cost:
    ASMP members Free
    Students $10
    General $20
    Advance Tickets: through Pay Pal
    Jeff

Maybe you are looking for