Load balancing via CHOC12/STS3

Hi, our customer has a connection between 2 x 12012 via the 4 embedded channels of CHOC12/STS3 module.As every subinterface has its own ip-subnet we have 4 equal paths to every destinations.
Customer wants to configure dCEF per-packet load balancing and is concerned if he can get packet sequence problems for his VoIP applications like it may happen on 'normal' equal path cost connections when load balancing per-packet instead of per-destination.
Does anybody know if this can be a concern on the embedded channels ?
Regards Guenther

Generally speaking, for a given source-destination pair, with Per-packet load balancing enabled, packets might take different paths which could introduce reordering of packets. Thus Per-packet load balancing is inappropriate for voice over IP traffic and also for certain other types of data traffic that require packets received to be in sequence. For more information please see
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/iosswrel/ps1828/products_configuration_guide_chapter09186a00800ca62c.html#3589. Whether the CHOC12/STS3 module has some special meachanism built in to take care of this is unknown to me. Per-packet load balancing via CEF is not supported on Engine 2 Gigabit Switch Router (GSR) line cards (LCs).

Similar Messages

IPSec (transport mode) load balancing via CSM

Suppouse that there is two servers providing service for remote aplications. Those aplications using IPSEC in transport mode. I would like to put at front CSM to load-balance beetwen both of them (persist via SRC IP is ok for me).
Have you any expirience with transort mode? IMHO it is not possible becouse of ip header changes? (I have no exact informatin that resign from AH transforms are possible)
What when changing to tunnel mode. Have you ever seen that configuraion working?

I think you can for the transport mode. I have not had any luck with the Tunnel mode.

ACE load balance based on Source IP Address

Hi Cisco Support,
I have question related to Cisco ACE behavior in term to taking a decision based on source address
I currently have two servers sits behind ACE part of one server farm, these servers are load balanced via one VIP on ACE module and every things looks fine.
Now service owners want to replace these old servers with new hardware hence before the migration we need to make sure these new servers are working as required standard hence need to create a testing scenario for new servers along with old server. The problem is that number of third party partners are accessing existing servers by hitting VIP on ace and we can't engage all our partner to participate in this test therefore decided to engage only one partner to carry our test with us.
For that reason can we some how configure the ACE so when packet arrive on ACE from one test partner mentioned above, ACE send only that partner's traffic based on it's source address (define via class/policy map on ACE if possible) towards new servers in the existing server farm and not to the old server in the same server farm.
Thanks for your support

Hi,
Just to put some config sample that might help you to get this done.
First create the new rservers and include them under a new serverfarm (New-APP)/
serverfarm host Webfarm
rserver SVR1
    inservice
rserver SVR2
    inservice
serverfarm host New-APP
rserver New-1
    inservice
rserver New-2
    inservice
- Same VIP already working.
class-map match-all VIP-HTTP
2 match virtual-address 10.10.10.10 tcp eq www
- Create a new class that will include your partner's IP(s).
class-map type http loadbalance match-any 3rd-Party
2 match source-address 200.200.200.1 255.255.255.255
3 match source-address 200.200.200.10 255.255.255.255
Modify your current first-match policy to put the new class on top so that all the traffic matched by the statement above (IP) will be redirected to the new farm with the new APP, any other traffic that does not match the "rule" will be sent to the old serverfam with the old app.
policy-map type loadbalance first-match L7-SLB
class 3rd-Party
    serverfarm New-APP
class class-default
    serverfarm Webfarm
Since you already have LB working then this is it, nothing needs to be added under the multi-match policy nor interface.
HTH
Pablo

ACE load balancing and testing using soapUI

Hey, I am trying to crowd source a solution for this problem.
A client is testing using soapUI to an application that is being load balanced via ACE. There are two webservers behind the VIP servicing the client request. When client tests, requests are timing out per the soapUI log. A packet capture was taken and it clearly shows that ACE is not forwarding the HTTP data back to the client. When client tests by bypassing the ACE load balancer, it works fine. But, there are other clients from other applications that are making successful connection to the load balanced application via the VIP.
Question, is there any thing unique with making HTTP/XML based requests using soapUI? LB configuration is shown below:
class-map match-all EAI_PWS_9083
2 match virtual-address 10.5.68.29 tcp eq 9083
serverfarm host EAI_PWS_9083
description WebSphere Porduction
failaction purge
probe tcp9083
rserver ESSWSPAPP01 9083
    inservice
rserver ESSWSPAPP02 9083
    inservice
policy-map type loadbalance first-match L7_POLICY_EAI_PWS_9083
class class-default
    serverfarm EAI_PWS_9083
policy-map multi-match L4SLBPOLICY
class EAI_PWS_9083
    loadbalance vip inservice
    loadbalance policy L7_POLICY_EAI_PWS_9083
    loadbalance vip icmp-reply active
    appl-parameter http advanced-options CASE_PARAM
parameter-map type http CASE_PARAM
case-insensitive

Hi,
Your configuration looks fine. I am not familiar with soapUI but if it is like a normal TCP connection followed by HTTP requests, i don't see why this shouldn't work.
Do you know if there is a difference while using soapUI and normal request using browser?
Regards,
Kanwal

Load balancing v/s Clustering with BOXI enterprise premium

We are planning to install Businessobjects enterprise premium on windows2008 server (64 bit) and we are going to use oracle database. my question is
"Can we set up Crystal reports and businessobjects (web intelligence) both either on clustered environment or load balancer ? "
If not, can you please let me know what is the best option ?

Oh. All BOE (this includes Crystal) servers support clustering (and software load balancing via corba). Only the input and output FRS do not support load balancing. i.e. while you can have mulitple input/output FRS, only one of each is active at a time. The others are passive and will only be used if the active FRS is unavailable.
As an aside, if I remember correctly, a BOE Premium license is required for clustering.
So, in essence, you do not need a hardware load balancer to support load balancing for both Crystal and Webi.

Srv2008 r2, Load balancing causing sessions to Stack and halt logon

Hello all,
We have currently using Appv 4.6 sp3, across 14 terminal servers. These then have access to 2 app servers and also 2 bkr servers.
We are running a srv2008 r2 environment, and running a windows 7 user experience on the terminal servers.
We are running microsoft load balancing via a farm setup. The member of staff that set they system up has recently left and with limited documentation I am struggling a bit to get my head around why the stacking occurs
The problem we have come across is that the system work ok load balancing works a treat, then all of a sudden a user will come along try log on and will take longer than usual to connect there session. This is causing all users that try connecting
to be stacked behind this slower user logging on and so to a point where there could be 20 + people waiting to log on.
This causes us a huge problem as we can have almost 700+ use at a time on the thin client environment.
Is there a setting that can be set to stop this situation happening, ??
Thanks in advance
Lee

Hi Lee,
Does this issue occurs with all users at a time?
Do you have printer redirection enabled?
If yes, then please try below Hotfix and check the result.
Long logon time when you establish an RD session to a Windows Server 2008 R2-based RD Session Host server if Printer Redirection is enabled
http://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2655998
Hope it helps!
Thanks.
Dharmesh Solanki
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Create Logon Group on EP for Load Balancing

Dear All,
How to create logon group on EP.
This group will include group of dialogue instance systems.
(di01, di02, di03)
Current landscape is
all these 3 di are under CI(production system).
EP d/b is connected and mapped over this production system.
Now I want whenever user access EP they should not login to PRD sys but thy shd login to any one of the DI SYS.
Responce Awaited.
Regards,
Purav

please believe me, the portal has no such mechanism itself for this kind of load balancing - it is ALWAYS done by an external solution such as web dispatcher.
In a portal cluster the CI may or may not have the SCS installed (it depends on the specific installation) but each node has its own inbuilt load balancing via the dispatcher - however this is purely round robin not based on any kind of exta intelligence.
Although portal can be installed in a cluster, any nodes (app or otherwise) can be treated as individual servers. In order to balance load across any / all servers in this configuration an external mechanism must be employed.
Chances are anyone claiming to have done load balancing this way without hardware is almost certainly using the web dispatcher as an additional layer.
Haydn

Load balance setting in AE

Hi:
The XI prd has 2 servers with load balance via web dispatch.But in the engine status of component monitor,i find there is no messages in one of the server nodes at the tab "message overview"!
I did a test of sending about 3000 records from ECC(ABAP PROXY) to DB(JDBC) through XI.During its processing,both of the 2 server works well in SM51,so i think the IE works well with load balance!
But all of the records are processed by one server node in engine status,what can i do for the AE?
I did another test of sending data from third party sys(SOAP) to ECC(ABAP PROXY) through XI.The sender pushed data through port 8080.Both the IE and AE works well with load balance.
regards
Yu Ming

Hi Ming,
you can check the IE load balancing in SM51 but not the AE load balancing. AE load balancing you can check in RWB. check the below
1) check in SXI_cache what the adapter engine URL is maintained in both application server(IE).
2)check the connectivty test between the web dispatcher to AE( in which message not visivle).
3) ChecK the configuration between sap web dispatcher to AE.
4) check the configuration and URL maintained in SLD
Regards,
Sushama

Load Balance guest Internet access via two different DMZ zones at two sites

Hi Sir,
My customer has the following unified wireless guest access requirement:
- There are 2 internet links and dmz zones at two different locations, Site A and Site B
- Data centre is at Site A
- WiSM is proposed to be installed at the Cat 6500 in Site A
- Lightweight AP are distributed across Site A, Site B and other branches
- Only one anchor WLC is proposed at Site A, DMZ zone to provide guest internet access
My customer would like to load balance the guest via the two internet link at Site A and Site B but with the same SSID across all locations. Can it be done since only one anchor at Site A? How about puttting another anchor WLC at Site B, DMZ zone? But how can i establish two EoIP tunnel to two different anchor WLC from a single WiSM?
Thanks for your help
Delon

You can... but you can't control where the traffic will flow. The wlc will determine which DMZ wlc it will use. The wlc will load balance, but traffic in site A might go to site B. I currently have deployed that senerio in multiple client installations....

How to load balance serving MP4 files via AMS

Hey gurus,
We have one centralized storage server that stores videos, Lets call this Server A, we have 4 more servers that we want to use to load the files from Server A to load balance and location balance the loading of files.
Servers B-E are on a private VLAN with Server A; so what we're doing now is mounting Server A on to Servers B-E and serving the files via AMS; this has proved to be quite inefficient.
For Live Streams; we use multi-point publishing to achieve this; is there a way to do this with recorded files?
Please advise!
Thanks

Here are few bits of info:
For load balancing for Analytics, that isn't officially supported yet for the UI and Administration components. It might work with sticky sessions from portal-to-analytics but that doesn't get you much. Improving the options there would be a good enhancement request.
For the collector, I think there are two important things to remember. Use broadcast mode. I've never actually seen it in unicast mode, but broadcast definitely works. Also, remember that this is all managed by Portal and Analytics - you don't use your own load balancer between Portal instances and the Analytics Collector instances.
Finally, ALUI Directory is not certified to be load balanced yet. On a separate note, ALUI Directory has a socket leak on Windows due to a bug in the version of Jrockit that ships with it. Upgrading the embedded application server for the ALUI/WCI installation to jrockit-R27.5.0-jdk1.5.0_14 will resolve it.

WebAS access via Portal: Web Dispatcher required for load balancing ABAP

Hi Folks -
We have EP 6.0 SP18 (Java only, WebAS 6.40, Unix/Solaris). The portal has a CI/SCS and one DI so we have a Web Dispatcher to load balance the portal servers. This works fine (and provides port 80 access).
This portal will provide access to HTTP services from an ABAP WebAS (6.20 with 6.40 kernel, Unix/Solaris). A landscape configuration entry has been added to the portal for this ABAP system. The ABAP system has a CI and multiple app servers, all capable of handling HTTP requests. This will also require port 80 access.
1. Will we need an additional Web Dispatcher to load balance HTTP requests to the 'backend' ABAP WebAS system, or will the portal be smart enough to handle the load balancing itself (perhaps based on the information in the landscape configuration)?
2. If the portal itself handles the HTTP load balancing can you point me to documentation (so I can make sure I have proper configuration)?
3. Are there any changes to this with NW2004s Portal (we plan to upgrade soon)?
Thanks in advance! Jeff

Jeff,
Regarding:
Q1. If you create a system object from the "SAP system with load balancing" template in portal and configure the object to point to your CI (msg server), the LB should be handled.
Q2. Portal load balancing is handled by the message server. If you point a test URL to the port of your message server, you will notice that you are issued a redirect the URL of your dialog instance. The web dispatcher is just a proxy (with some intelligence). When a request is made to the WD, it makes a connection to the MSG server, the list of active instances is queried, a redirect is made to that instanct. If you use WD, that connection can be proxied behind a standard URL. If you connect directly to the MSG Server instead, you will notice your URL change, just as it does on the service marketplace.
WDs are good for providing services, masked (proxied) behind virtual names. If you do not want the customer to see a physical URL of the server, use the WD. There are lots of other solutions that can do this too though such as Apache, ISA, Juniper devices, Cisco LDs. WDs have a very low performance threshold though, especially if you use SSL. WD is a performance bottleneck and should be benchmarked to see if it is right for your application.
Q3. No changes this architecture in 04s.
jwise

Internet Based Clients via F5 Big-IP load balancer

Hi Guys,
Please help with below question....
We have the requirement to support internet based clients...we have a proper MS PKI infra in-place. The SCCM design is like this : Primary Server is on corporate LAN and I have attached a site system server which is in DMZ network ( Say ABC Zone ). Now as
per my knowledge DMZ SCCM Site System server should be accessible to clients over internet connection and to make this happen, FQDN of site systems that support Internet-based client management must be registered as host entries on public DNS servers.
Now the twist is... as per our company policy we cannot make that SCCM Site system server directly available on internet... Network team is saying there is another DMZ zone ( Say PQR Zone ) where they have F5 Big-IP load balancer which are internet facing
( HTTPS ). Now they are saying that our SCCM clients should hit those devices and then internally re-direct to our SCCM site system server kept in ABC Zone.
VeriSign certificates will be used to encrypt in-coming network traffic to the F5 Big-IP Load Balancers configured as ADFS reverse proxy servers residing in the PQR Zone.
Is this scenario supported ? Please let me know what alternates we can have to avoid our SCCM server not directly facing to internet.
Thanks,
Sam

Hi Jason,
Thanks for your quick and prompt reply as always. My answers in BOLD...
First a question, you said "we have a proper MS PKI infra in-place". Does this mean you have a CDP exposed to the Internet or is an OCSP responder Internet accessible? If not, you will have issues although this can be overcome by disabling CRL checking
on the clients, that does lower your security posture. With "Proper PKI infra" I meant... they have if available already and supporting SCCM 2007 environment with it...but not supporting internet based clients in SCCM 2007. They implemented PKI there
just for better security. At present PKI CRL server is on internal network and the assumption is that, machines will also VPN-in the corporate network for CRL and certificate renewal when required...at some point in time.
To your real question here, is the F5 bridging or can it be set to pass-through? Pass-through is generally easier. Ultimately though, ConfigMgr doesn't care as long as the traffic gets to the site system hosting the roles. The main difference will be with the
certificates used by each component. With bridging, the F5 will terminate the SSL traffic and then initiate a new SSL stream to the site system.
This is all pretty transparent to ConfigMgr and the client as long as the certs used are configured with the proper SANs and the F5 properly passes the traffic along.
I don't think Network team would allow 'pass-through' and would go for 'bridging' option. Can you please let me know the steps I need to follow to configure bridging in-between F5 Balancers and SCCM site system server...bottom line is...our SCCM clients
should be able to communicate to our site server to get the MP, SUP and DP service. I'm not clear with the statement I underlined in above para.
Is using a third-party product like an F5 supported by Microsoft. No not explicitly. They rarely support anyone else's technology. Is the scenario in general supported? Yes, however Microsoft only provides guidance for doing so in conjunction with TMG/ISA.
If you search the web for "internet based client management bridge" you'll get lots of hits. Most (if not all) will be for ConfigMgr 2007 but they are still applicable.
Not able to find much fruitful data... Can you please provide me with good links which would help me clear this technically.
Now, if your F5 is set to pass-through, then there's not much extra to do at all assuming the traffic is routed properly
THANKS AGAIN for your help in this regard.
Sam

Site not found using Sharepoint Designer 2013, Load balance URL and the Front end servers.

Dears,
My SharePoint farm is with the below configuration in our office :
Batch processing server the with Central Administration
Web Front End Sever 1 (http://wfe01)
Web Front End Sever 2 (http://wfe02)
I do have the load balance URL as http://finance.mycompany.com and as per the system administrator it seems configured properly.
In AAM i have mapped the URLs as below for the web application in Central Administration portal:
http://finance.mycompany.com - Default Zone
http://wfe01 - Intranet Zone
http://wfe02 - Internet Zone
I was able to browse the site via the load balance URL : http://finance.mycompany.com, but couldn't open the site using the Share Point Designer 2013. It always says the site not found.
please advise,
thanks,
Ammar

What do the wfe01 and wfe02 aams do?
Are you browsing to the SharePoint site and using SPD on the same computer, is it part of the farm or a seperate client computer?
thanks Alex a lot for your response and appreciate the same.
WFE01, WFE01 is connected to the one central admin on Batch Processing Server (central admin URL is http://SharepointCA:5555 and the SharePoint Web Application is hosted under port 80 on the same server). So the AAM configured on the batch processing server
central admin.
I can connect to the site using the SPD inside the Batch Processing server if i mention the site urs as http://localhost. But not from other client computers by putting the load balance URL - http://finance.mycompany.com.
I can browse the sites directly putting http://wfe01, http://wfe02 and as well as the load balance URL (http://finance.mycompany.com). The custom webparts are getting crashed when i put the web application URL as http://finance.mycompany.com.
thanks,
Ammar

Load balance not happening in BGP

Dear Friends,
As per I know local BGP process may implement equal-cost load-balancing to the paths that:
Have the same set of path attributes up to the MED (weight, Local Preference, Origin, MED)
Are of the same type (both learned via iBGP or eBGP)
Have the same IGP cost to reach their NEXT_HOP IP address
If the above conditions are met andmaximum-paths [ibgp]is configured under the BGP process, BGP will install multiple equal-cost routes into the local RIB and use them for load-balancing. We call the above condition as load-balancing conditions for BGP.
As all the above criteria are matched still BGP is not doing load balance. Please find below routing table:
R1:
R1#sh ip bgp
BGP table version is 4, local router ID is 40.1.1.1
Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i - internal,
              r RIB-failure, S Stale
Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete
   Network          Next Hop            Metric LocPrf Weight Path
*>i192.168.1.0      20.1.1.2                 0    100      0 i
* i                        30.1.1.1                 0    100      0 i
R1#sh ip route
Gateway of last resort is not set
     20.0.0.0/24 is subnetted, 1 subnets
R       20.1.1.0 [120/1] via 10.1.1.2, 00:00:03, FastEthernet0/0
     40.0.0.0/24 is subnetted, 1 subnets
C       40.1.1.0 is directly connected, FastEthernet0/1
     10.0.0.0/24 is subnetted, 1 subnets
C       10.1.1.0 is directly connected, FastEthernet0/0
B    192.168.1.0/24 [200/0] via 20.1.1.2, 00:12:01
     30.0.0.0/24 is subnetted, 1 subnets
R       30.1.1.0 [120/1] via 40.1.1.2, 00:00:15, FastEthernet0/1
router bgp 100
no synchronization
bgp log-neighbor-changes
neighbor 10.1.1.2 remote-as 100
neighbor 40.1.1.2 remote-as 100
maximum-paths 2
no auto-summary
Please help....!!!!!!!   why BGP is not load balancing here????
R1#traceroute 192.168.1.1
Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to 192.168.1.1
1 10.1.1.2 88 msec 60 msec 28 msec
2 20.1.1.2 104 msec 56 msec 120 msec
Regards,
Sanjib

Dear Jon,
Thank you so much.
When I changed the configuration BGP is now loadbalancing. But in configuartion Max-path showing as 1 instead of 2.
R1#sh ip pro | sec bgp
Routing Protocol is "bgp 100"
Outgoing update filter list for all interfaces is not set
Incoming update filter list for all interfaces is not set
IGP synchronization is disabled
Automatic route summarization is disabled
Neighbor(s):
    Address          FiltIn FiltOut DistIn DistOut Weight RouteMap
    12.1.1.2
    13.1.1.3
Maximum path: 1
Routing Information Sources:
    Gateway         Distance      Last Update
    13.1.1.3             200      00:01:12
    12.1.1.2             200      00:02:15
Distance: external 20 internal 200 local 200
Regards,
Sanjib

Load Balancing, Server and / or Client ?

Hi
I am experiencing a problem with the connection pooling in odp.net. I have a simple test app that creates a connection, executes a query, populates an object then closes the connection. I have found that when I have client side load balancing on via the odp.net connection string property many connections are made unnecessary (sometime the actual number created reaches the max pool size but the numbers differ randomly). It appears that rather than a free connection in the pool being used more connections are being created which defeats the point of having a connection pool. I do have server side load balancing configured correctly also. Due to this finding can someone possibly answer the following questions.
a) Do I need both server side and client side load balancing set?
b) If I do why is the above behaviour being seen? If not could you give me a short explanation as to why not?
Current set up is 11g (patched to 6, awaiting 7 to be applied) RAC, 2 nodes.
Below is the C# code used while testing this. The table queried is a simple person table containing 16000 rows if data.
OcConnection = "User Id=XXX; Password=XXX; Connection Lifetime = 60; Data Source=(DESCRIPTION=(ADDRESS_LIST=(FAILOVER=on)(LOAD_BALANCE=off)(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=XXX)(PORT=1521))(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=XXX)(PORT=1521)))(CONNECT_DATA=(SERVICE_NAME=MyFirstTest))); Pooling=true; HA Events = true; Load Balancing = true";
Code:-
Oracle.DataAccess.Client.OracleConnection con;
con = new Oracle.DataAccess.Client.OracleConnection();
con.ConnectionString =OcConnection;
con.Open();
// the command object to use for this test
OracleCommand cmd = con.CreateCommand();
cmd.CommandText = "select * from PERSON";
OracleDataReader rdr = cmd.ExecuteReader();
List<test> listTest = new List<test>();
while (rdr.Read())
test dc = new test();
if (!rdr.IsDBNull(0))
dc.id = Convert.ToInt32(rdr.GetValue(0));
if (!rdr.IsDBNull(1))
dc.forename = rdr.GetString(1);
if (!rdr.IsDBNull(2))
dc.surname = rdr.GetString(2);
if (!rdr.IsDBNull(3))
dc.street = rdr.GetString(3);
if (!rdr.IsDBNull(4))
dc.city = rdr.GetString(4);
if (!rdr.IsDBNull(5))
dc.postcode = rdr.GetString(5);
if (!rdr.IsDBNull(6))
dc.country = rdr.GetString(6);
if (!rdr.IsDBNull(7))
dc.email = rdr.GetString(7);
if (!rdr.IsDBNull(8))
dc.dateadded = rdr.GetDateTime(8);
if (!rdr.IsDBNull(9))
dc.randWords = rdr.GetString(9);
if (!rdr.IsDBNull(10))
dc.uniqueNumber = Convert.ToInt32(rdr.GetValue(10));
listTest.Add(dc);
rdr.Close();
con.Close();
rdr.Dispose();
cmd.Dispose();
con.Dispose();
Thanks for your time
Victoria

Here are the HTTP Headers as monitored on the client side. Notice the good.txt file includes a GET as it's initial request. All works fine in this case. However, the initial request in the bad.txt is a POST. This is odd since the URL was opened using the same shortcut in both incidents and the browser was closed between each trace that was taken. I've also reviewed the shortcut with notepad to verify it does not include unwanted data such as the JSESSIONID info....etc.
Once you have reviewed the HTTP headers, I have these questions.
1. IIS is sending the 100 Continue messages as you mention, but why is the CSS injecting the cookie in a 100 response that is not typically processed by the client? The bad.txt file shows the client receiving two ARPT cookies because the first cookie in the 100 continue response was ignored.
2. I know Cisco is not really in the business of troubleshooting browser behaviour. But do you know why the browser would behave differently....GET in one request and a POST in the next? We do not wish to get into modifying the browser, so I'm hoping we can provide a solution on the server side that will allow the browser to function this way if it chooses to do so. Do you think it would make sence to push the state management up a level to the cookie handed out by JRUN? This way, the cookie would not be handed back in a 100 response from IIS, and we could tell the CSS to monitor the JRUN cookie. Of course this would require we determine how to manage this cookie either by modifying to cookie to have static data for each server, or by using the right method of hashing...etc.
Chris

Load balancing via CHOC12/STS3

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