Location-based security policies

I'm using my Thinkpad both at work and at home. For security reasons I set the system to promt for password after screensaver (as it appeares to be the easiest way to automatically lock the computer). In office it's OK, but rather annoying and useless when I'm at home.
So I wonder whether there is a method to switch it off while in trusted environement and back on in every other. Maybe AccessConnection could handle it?

If you can change the settings via a script (or maybe a 3rd party product), you could update your AC profile to launch the script/program to either set or unset the configuration.
For example, I use a script (well, plain old batch file actually) to map network drives when a certain work profile is launched. There must be a way to set screen saver policy via a windows shell script (WSH)...

Similar Messages

  • Location Based Security application?

    Hello everyone,
    I've been searching the App World for a 'Location Based' Security app, but can't seem to find what Im looking for.
    I like the security that is native to the Blackberry, but when I am at work or at home, I like to not to have to use the password to access my device.
    I am looking for something that would look at the location of the device and know whether or not the security should automatically be turned on.
    Does anyone know if this has been developed?
    Regards,
    Dave
    Current Device: Z10 via ActiveSync
    Formerly - 9650/ HTC Thunderbolt / 9550 / 9630 / 8830 / 8100 / 8700 / 7290 / 7100g / 7510 / 7230 / 6710 /. .

    If you can change the settings via a script (or maybe a 3rd party product), you could update your AC profile to launch the script/program to either set or unset the configuration.
    For example, I use a script (well, plain old batch file actually) to map network drives when a certain work profile is launched. There must be a way to set screen saver policy via a windows shell script (WSH)...

  • Non-software based security to prevent theft?

    I recently purchases a Macbook, and I've already been looking at software based security tracking. I've discovered Lojack, Orbicule's Undercover, and U Washington's Adeona (which is free), and I've written my own perl script too. I don't have valuable data on my laptop, but because i'm a poor student i'd like to keep the laptop itself.
    However, it seems that almost any software based security can be overcome, so I'm wondering what about a hardware based security device? Something that doesn't matter if the hard drive is removed? It's the lojack for cars idea -- install a transmitting device somewhere inside the car.
    I think a simple solution would be to attach a tiny processor to the wireless router which can run a simple emailing script sending encrypted messages to my email account. Or a "fake ram card" which is actually a wireless transmitter or something else that can not be easily noticed or removed?
    Does anybody have a recommendation?

    I am on a campus... And my computer and ipod are registered with Apple, so I assume those actions help.
    Look, seriously, there have got to be some simple solutions for tracking down a stolen laptop. Here's some ideas:
    1) A processor (or something?) lock to the harddrive. That is, you can't simply swap out the hard drive to disable the security software. the bootstrap os will refuse to load an os that's not on the harddrive it was keyed to. this way, they have to put the harddrive back in, and my software can resume emailing location markers.
    2) A modified battery (or ram card), by appearances identical to the normal battery. Nobody suspects the battery... but take out 25% of the battery, and replace it with a wireless router (they fit on a usb stick these days) that can reactivate the security software or to send the regular (encrypted) location updates to my personal email account whenever it finds an open network. So I can notify the police or campus security etc.
    3) blah blah blah
    In this day of advanced technology... it should be impossible to steal a laptop and get away with it. somebody (or company) just needs to sit down and work out the details. i suspect some people already have, i just don't know where.

  • Deploying application with security polices on Jdeveloper 11.1.1.0

    Hi all,
    I am using Jdeveloper 11.1.1.0 and WebLogic Server 10.3.1
    I have an application that uses security polices (file jazn-data.xml) and when I launch it from Jdeveloper it works. Now I am trying to deploy it, but I have some problems.
    I have try to follow this link:
    http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/jdev/tips/muench/credmig111100/index.html
    but is not update
    I have tried to follow this:
    http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E12839_01/core.1111/e10043/csfadmin.htm#CACDJHGE
    but when I launch this command:
    migrateSecurityStore.py -type credStore
    -configFile jpsConfigFileLocation
    -src srcJpsContext
    -dst dstJpsContext
    I can't understand where are the file: jpsConfigFileLocation, srcJpsContext, dstJpsContext. In what folder are there?
    Are there my links correct? Or are there links or manual simpler to add security to a deploy?
    Thanks
    Edited by: user10799119 on 4-set-2009 3.52

    Hi,
    migrateSecurityStore.py -type credStore
    -configFile jpsConfigFileLocation
    -src srcJpsContext
    -dst dstJpsContext
    +[-overWrite trueOrFalse]+
    +migrateSecurityStore(type="credStore", configFile="jpsConfigFileLocation", src="srcJpsContext", dst="dstJpsContext", [overWrite="trueOrFalse"])+
    The meaning of the arguments (all required except overWrite) is as follows:
    *+
    configFile specifies the location of a configuration file jps-config.xml relative to the directory where the command is run. Typically, this configuration file is created just to be used with the command and serves no other purpose. This files contains two jps-contexts that specify the source and destination stores.
    In addition, if the migration involves one or two LDAP-based stores, then this file must contain a bootstrap jps-context that refers to the location of a cwallet.sso file where the credentials to access the LDAP based involved in the migration are kept. See second example below. For complete details, see Section 15.4.7, "Specifying Bootstrap Credentials Manually."
    *+
    src specifies the name of a jps-context in the configuration file passed to the argument configFile. This context identifies the source credential repository.
    *+
    dst specifies the name of another jps-context in the configuration file passed to the argument configFile. This context identifies the target credential repository.
    *+
    overWrite specifies whether a target credential matching a source credential should be overwritten by or merged with the source credential. Set to true to overwrite the target credential; set to false to merge matching credentials. Optional. If not specified, defaults to false. When set to false, if a matching is detected, the source credential is disregarded and a warning is logged.
    JPS config is located in <wls install dir>\user_projects\domains\base_domain\config\fmwconfig . The two context references, like srcJpsContext, reference a named area in the jps config file. I agree that the text is a bit hard to parse. So they are no files to search but entries in the file you reference in the "config" parameter
    Frank

  • I set up a location based reminder in notification last week to test it out.  Worked great, but now I cannot get rid of it.  It does not show up in any list on the notifications pages, but can be found in search.  How can I get rid of this notification?

    Last week I set up a location based reminder in notifications to test it out.  Worked great.  However, I can't get rid of it.  It does not show up on any of the pages, either reminders or completed.  I can search and find it, shows it should be in reminders page, but it is not there for me to remove.  Any ideas?

    Sometimes a problem with Firefox may be a result of malware installed on your computer, that you may not be aware of.
    You can try these free programs to scan for malware, which work with your existing antivirus software:
    * [http://www.microsoft.com/security/scanner/default.aspx Microsoft Safety Scanner]
    * [http://www.malwarebytes.org/products/malwarebytes_free/ MalwareBytes' Anti-Malware]
    * [http://support.kaspersky.com/faq/?qid=208283363 TDSSKiller - AntiRootkit Utility]
    * [http://www.surfright.nl/en/hitmanpro/ Hitman Pro]
    * [http://www.eset.com/us/online-scanner/ ESET Online Scanner]
    [http://windows.microsoft.com/MSE Microsoft Security Essentials] is a good permanent antivirus for Windows 7/Vista/XP if you don't already have one.
    Further information can be found in the [[Troubleshoot Firefox issues caused by malware]] article.
    Did this fix your problems? Please report back to us!

  • Form based security in WebLogic 7.0

    I'm sorry for the beginner level question, but I seem to be missing a critical step
    in getting Form based security to work. I have a Web application comprised of several
    JSPs. I want to attache simple FORM based security contrainsts to all pages in the
    app. Here are the exceprts from my web.xml:
    <security-constraint>
    <web-resource-collection>
    <web-resource-name>DTSTAT</web-resource-name>
    <url-pattern>/StateServlet/*</url-pattern>
    </web-resource-collection>
    <auth-constraint>
    <role-name>Sysops</role-name>
    </auth-constraint>
    <user-data-constraint>
    <transport-guarantee>NONE</transport-guarantee>
    </user-data-constraint>
    </security-constraint>
    <login-config>
    <auth-method>FORM</auth-method>
    <form-login-config>
    <form-login-page>/StateServlet/login.html</form-login-page>
    <form-error-page>/StateServlet/login-error.html</form-error-page>
    </form-login-config>
    </login-config>
    <security-role>
    <role-name>Sysops</role-name>
    </security-role>
    The app deploys correctly and I have verified that the constrinsts, etc. are recognized
    by WebLogic by inspecting the content displayed from the Admin console under the
    "Edit Web Apllication Deployment Descriptor" link - all looks as I had expected and
    matches the XML configuration above.
    I then use the "Define Resources and Roles for Web Resource Collections" link. Under
    the "Define Policies" section I see the constraints as defined above. I then use
    the "Define Roles" link to define the "Sysops" role for this application and add
    the condition "Caller is a member of the group" and use Administrators as the Group.
    From this point, I invoke one of the JSPS in the app and presented with the Login
    page as expected. However, no matter what I enter for user and password, I always
    get the login-error page back. I'm purposely trying to keep this simple so that
    I can use the system user as a test case (who is a member of the Administartors group).
    However, I have also created an additional separate user and added them to the Administartors
    group as well with the same unsuccessful results.
    Can anyone help me out please? I've been reading the docs and seem to be missing
    a key element somewhere.
    Thanks in advance,
    Todd

              Try to refer to the documentation for
              Configuring Security in Web Applications at
              http://e-docs.bea.com/wls/docs70///webapp/security.html
              Does the weblogic.log file contain any error or warning
              messages corresponding to your problem ?
              If you have a test case to reproduce the problem, you
              can contact BEA support at [email protected]
              Thanks
              Developer Relations Engineer
              

  • How to use ADF Security policies in OID Ldap

    Hello
    My application uses ADF security policies created by Jdeveloper ADF Security Wizard and page definition Edit Authorization menu. The application runs as expected using file based system-jazn-data.xml. I used the JAZNMigrationTool in order to migrate XML based policies to LDAP based policies. LDIF file was generated by the tool and then using the LDAPModify command the file was uploaded to the OID. No errors were generated during this process.
    I used Oracle Directory Manager in order to examine the migration result, and compare the output to that described by
    Introduction to ADF Security in JDeveloper 10.1.3.2
    An Oracle JDeveloper Article
    Written by Frank Nimphius, Oracle Corporation
    February, 2007
    I was expecting to find Read, Update privileges in the orcljaznpermissionaction and the attribute name in the orcljaznpermissiontarget as shown in Fig 15 ADF security entry in OID.
    to narrow down the source of the issue, we examine the LDIF file, and there was no reference to these entries. Below is one example entry from the LDIF file
    dn: orclguid=EF37EAA603C611DDBFAE635A1BB60EE0,cn=Permissions,cn=Policy,cn=JAZNContext,cn=Products,cn=OracleContext,dc=realsoft,dc=com
    changetype: add
    objectclass: orcljaznpermission
    objectclass: groupofuniquenames
    objectclass: top
    cn: EF37EAA603C611DDBFAE635A1BB60EE0
    orclGuid: EF37EAA603C611DDBFAE635A1BB60EE0
    orcljaznjavaclass: java.security.UnresolvedPermission
    orcljaznpermissiontarget: oracle.adf.share.security.authorization.AttributePermission
    orcljaznpermissionactions:
    uniquemember: orclguid=EF37EAA203C611DDBFAE635A1BB60EE0,cn=Grantees,cn=Policy,cn=JAZNContext,cn=Products,cn=OracleContext,dc=realsoft,dc=com
    Note that the orcljazpermissionactions is empty and orcljaznpermissiontarget does not really specify the actual attribute name.
    The system-jazn-data.xml includes all entries correctly.
    rgds

    Eurika
    finally solved,
    runing the JAZNMigrationTool requires setting the correct classpath,
    Setting the classpath to the following
    C:\>Set CLASSPATH=d:\jdevstudio10132\j2ee\home\jazn.jar
    allows you to run the Jaznmigrationtool successfully, however you will find that the generated LDIF file does not include the premission actions (Read, Update ...)
    if however, you add the adfshare.jar to the classpath
    C:\>Set CLASSPATH=d:\jdevstudio10132\j2ee\home\jazn.jar;d:\jdevstudio10132\BC4J\lib\adfshare.jar
    now the tool will migrate the permission policies , the following shows an extract from the LDIF file
    dn: orclguid=A5E662E204D411DDBF8807BC4864C5C2,cn=Permissions,cn=Policy,cn=JAZNContext,cn=Products,cn=OracleContext,dc=realsoft,dc=com
    changetype: add
    objectclass: orcljaznpermission
    objectclass: groupofuniquenames
    objectclass: top
    cn: A5E662E204D411DDBF8807BC4864C5C2
    orclGuid: A5E662E204D411DDBF8807BC4864C5C2
    orcljaznjavaclass: oracle.adf.share.security.authorization.AttributePermission
    orcljaznpermissiontarget: AppModuleDataControl.VRoleAuthorrizationsView1.RanDateTo
    orcljaznpermissionactions: read,update
    uniquemember: orclguid=A5E662E104D411DDBF8807BC4864C5C2,cn=Grantees,cn=Policy,cn=JAZNContext,cn=Products,cn=OracleContext,dc=realsoft,dc=com
    Ammar Sajdi
    www.e-ammar.com/Oracle.html

  • IP based security with JSP?

    Hi,
    How easy/hard would it be to implement IP based security in a JSP application? I.e. We want to restrict the IP addresses that can access our application.
    Is this something that can be done in the web.xml using the security contraints??
    Or is it much more ocmplex than this?
    (We want to prevent our customer from sharing the application with third-parties, so we can not rely on a firewall based approach)
    Thanks

    Well, for Apache, it's easier. I think for Location to work, you need virtual directories set up. I could be wrong... Or try using Directory intead of Location. I recall Location was for something special... but I forget the details. For Apache/Tomcat, I've usually used aliases to handle directories...
    Alias /ITMS "ITMS_HOME/tools/tomcat/jakarta-tomcat-4.0.3/webapps/ITMS"
    <Directory "ITMS_HOME/tools/tomcat/jakarta-tomcat-4.0.3/webapps/ITMS">
    AllowOverride None
    Options Indexes
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
    ExpiresActive On
    ExpiresByType application/octet-stream "access plus 7 days"
    ExpiresByType image/gif "access plus 7 days"
    ExpiresByType image/jpeg "access plus 7 days"
    ExpiresByType text/x-javascript "access plus 0 seconds"
    ExpiresByType text/css "modification plus 7 days"
    ExpiresByType text/html "access plus 0 seconds"
    ExpiresByType text/vnd.wap.wml "access plus 0 seconds"
    ExpiresDefault "now plus 1 month"
    </Directory>
    You can set up deny's from IP or IP range or domain.
    Deny from .domain.com
    Deny from 123.232.123.33
    Deny from 123.232.124.

  • Document Restrictions of Security Policies

    Hello,
    I've been hunting around but can't find it. Is there a concise reference for how to use Adobe Acrobat8 Security features with the Adobe Document Center? Is it so new that there's no book (Quick Start, etc.) on it?
    I send PDFs to people. But I only want them to be able to print the PDF, not copy any of its content. I also want the PDF to deny access after a 3 month period. I was going to use Pinion Software's AutoShred product, but then I stumbled upon Adobe8 and the Document Center, which seemed like a perfect fit. So I immediately upgraded to Adobe8 and signed up for the trial at the Document Center.
    I have created security policies and everything seems to work as its supposed to. However, when I look at any security policy, there is nothing allowing me to make the kind of detailed modifications permitted in Acrobat8 - Secure / Show Security Properties / SecurityTab / and the list for Document Restrictions Summary.
    For some reason, when I set up a security policy - most restrictive to only permit printing and eliminate file access after 3 months - the "page extraction: allowed" phrase shows up when I examine Show Security Properties / Security Tab / Document Restrictions Summary, even though for everything else it is "Not allowed" which is what I want.
    I thought maybe its a bug, because when I close the file and then reopen it, the page extraction is grayed out. But I don't know if people I send the file to will be able to extract the pages, thus getting around my objective of not allowing them to copy/paste any of my proprietary content onto some other file format.
    Anybody else have this same problem. Is there a way for me to prevent page extraction and have it show up in the Document Restrictions Summary as "Page Extraction: Not Allowed"?
    Thanks,
    Robert

    Hi Holly,
    Question - is that all you want to do? Or do the documents have value to you such that you want to maintain control over how long they are used, by whom, and for how long?
    1. If the former, you can use password protection to protect the documents, and format them so that they cannot be altered.
    From within Adobe Acrobat 8 with the document visible.
    Select Secure / Password Encrypt / Permissions
    Click on Restrict Editing and Printing
    Key in a protection password (I use the same for all documents)
    Select Printing permissions "High Resolution" from drop down menu
    Select Changes Allowed "None" from Drop Down Menu
    Make sure "Enable copying of text, images.... box is unchecked
    Don't worry about creating Security Envelopes or anything else. Just click cancel if those windows pop up.
    Your security changes will not take effect until you save the document. Once saved, you can go to Secure / Show Security Properties / Show Details to confirm that all settings are as you want.
    2. If you want to do the latter, you can sign up for Adobe Live Cycle Policy Server protection of the document. Adobe just came out with a new service. Right now its free. Later to be subscription based.
    https://dc.adobe.com/adc/login.do?nextURL=https%3A%2F%2Fdc.adobe.com%2Fadc%2Fadc.do
    I use this, since I want to maintain control over the documents. I let people print only. No other changes, no copying, no emailing. And the document "self destructs" on the date I set for its expiration.
    Regards,
    Robert

  • How do I migrate my Acrobat X security policies to Acrobat XI? (I'm on a mac)

    I currently have both Acrobat X and XI installed on my Mac OS 10.7.5. All of my security policies, Actions, and other preferences are on X, and I don't know how to move them over to XI. I have a lot of security policies I can't afford to discard. Is there a way to migrate the policies, and hopefully also the Actions/Scripts I made in X? If so, how would I do that?

    Look in the following location for the file "security-policy.acrodata":
    /Users/[USERNAME]/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Acrobat/10.0/Security/
    Copy it to the location:
    /Users/[USERNAME]/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Acrobat/11.0/Security/

  • Configure Keystore-Based Security on BPEL 11g Service

    Hi,
    I've been exploring OWSM, but haven't found a guide to attach a JKS keystore-based security to a BPEL service. I'm looking for information like attaching a keystore to weblogic, and configuring SOA services to interact via this security mechanism.
    Thanks in advance,

    Doesn't help.
    That is basically telling me how to create, import, export, etc. keystores which I already know and have in place.
    The menu structure given in the doc doesn't match what I have.
    I have no place in that menu to store a keystore. Here's what I have:
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    I have a BPEL composite deployment under soa-infra that calls a secure webservice.
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    When I try to make the call from the BPEL service, I get this error:
    oracle.fabric.common.FabricInvocationException: Unable to access the following endpoint(s): https://www....
    Caused by: javax.xml.ws.WebServiceException: javax.xml.soap.SOAPException: javax.xml.soap.SOAPException: Message send failed: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: PKIX path building failed: sun.security.provider.certpath.SunCertPathBuilderException: unable to find valid certification path to requested target
    I guessed this was something to do with the keystore.
    If it's not then what is causing it?

  • Using location based reminders on a Mac

    I'd like to set a location based reminder on my Mac and have it trigger on iOS when out and about. Supposedly, if I type an address in the location field (using Reminders on my Mac) it should take, but the field just empties and defaults to my current location. Any ideas on how to accomplish this?

    Go to System Preferences > Security & Privacy > Privacy and turn on Location Services.

  • Copy Security Policies onto new computer

    I upgraded my computer to a new computer and installed Acrobat 8 Standard on it. On my old computer I had security policies in there and I want to export them and put them on the new computer without having to recreate them. Does anyone know how to do this? Thanks

    Hi,
    Go to C:\Documents and Settings\<user name>\Application Data\Adobe\Acrobat\8.0\Security on the old computer Note: <user name> is your login name
    Copy security-policy.acrodata to removable media and then paste it into the same location on the new computer
    Steve

  • Controller based AirGroup Policies & Auto-association

    Requirement:
    Controller based AirGroup Policies
    By default all AirGroup servers are visible to every AirGroup user. 
    This features enables configuring policies on controller for AirGroup servers to limit the visibility of AirGroup servers to destined AirGroup users.  Admin is allowed to configure shared user-list, shared role-list and shared group-list for each AirGroup server to limit this server’s visibility to intended AirGroup users.
    The group-list is the same as the group defined in Active directory. 
    These configurations were done in CPPM prior to v6.4.3, now it is extended to the controller.
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    Auto-association feature helps with visibility of an AirGroup server If it needs to be seen by a broader area. This feature enables attaching an AirGroup server to an AP-name, AP-group or AP-FQLN and any AirGroup users associated to that AP-name etc. will be automatically see those AirGroup Server.
    Auto-association feature can be applied at AirGroup Service level as well – AirPlay etc. All AirGroup  Servers advertising that service will be seen by AG users associated to that AP-name/AP-group/AP-FQLN.
    Use case – In a multi-floor building, if you want users in Floor-10 to have access to a printer in Floor-10. You can define location based policy and attach the printer to an AP-group for floor-10 and users belonging to that AP-group will be able to access that printer.
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    Controller based AirGroup Policies
    Policies can be configured on the controller to limit the visibility of AirGroup servers to destined AirGroup users
    Policies can be configured based on shared user-list, shared role-list and shared group-list 
    Location based policies for AirGroup devices can be configured based on ap-name, ap-group and ap-fqln
    This was done in CPPM prior to v6.4.3
    Auto-association
    Enables AG users to discover AG servers based on 
    AP or its neighbours
    AP-Group
    AP-FQLN
    Auto-associate can be enabled at Airgroup  Server
    Airgroup  Service level (Airplay etc)
    Configuration:
    This configuration defines a policy for AG server based on its MAC address and share this server among list of users, role, group and location.
    Mac Address Based Policy Configuration
       (config) #airgroup policy <AG-Server-mac>
        (config-airgroup-policy) #?
        userlist
        rolelist
        grouplist
        location 
        no
    Configuration – Shared user list
    Configuration to add/remove users in an shared user-list.
    Configuring shared user-list
        (Aruba) (config-airgroup-policy) #userlist ?
    Adding a user-name:
       (config-airgroup-policy) #userlist add Bob          
    Deleting a user-name from the shared user-list:
       (config-airgroup-policy) #userlist remove Bob       
    Deleting the entire shared-user list:
       (config-airgroup-policy)# no userlist    
    Configuring Shared user-role 
      (Aruba) (config-airgroup-policy) #rolelist ?
    Adding a shared-role:
      (config-airgroup-policy) #rolelist add <name-string>             
     Deleting a role from the shared role-list:
      (config-airgroup-policy) #rolelist remove <name-string>       
    Deleting the entire shared-role list:
      (config-airgroup-policy) #no 
    Configuration – Shared user group
    Configuring shared user-group
      (config-airgroup-policy) #grouplist add <name-string>             
    Removing a shared user-group
      (config-airgroup-policy) #grouplist remove <name-string>      
    Disable user-group based sharing 
      (config-airgroup-policy) #no grouplist
    Configuration – Shared location
     Configuring shared location
       (config-airgroup-policy) #location ? 
        ap-group
        ap-fqln
        ap-name
        no.
    Auto-association configuration:
    Adding an ap-group to shared-location
    (config-airgroup-policy) #location ap-group  bldg1                     
    Deleting an ap-group to shared-location
    (config-airgroup-policy) #location ap-group remove bldg1        
    Enabling location auto-association for ap-group
    (config-airgroup-policy) #location ap-group auto        
    Service level Auto-associate
    Configure Auto-association based on AirGroup Service based for AP-name, AP-Group and AP-location. Users associated to AP-name/AP-group/AP-FQLN will automatically see all Airgroup servers that advertise the AG service.
    (Aruba) (config) #airgroupservice ?
        STRING                  AirGroup Service
    (Aruba (config) #airgroupservice airplay
    (Aruba) (config-airgroupservice)#autoassociate
        apfqln                  Auto tag with AP FQLN
        apgroup                 Auto tag with AP Group
        apname                  Auto tag with AP Name
    (Aruba) (config-airgroupservice) #autoassociate apname <AP-Name-String>
    (Aruba) (config-airgroupservice) #autoassociate apgroup <AP-Group-String>
    (Aruba) (config-airgroupservice) # autoassociate apfqln <AP-fqln-String>
    Configuration GUI – Device level Auto-associate
    GUI-Service level Auto-associate
    Verification
    Debugging commands
    Enable mdns logging using the following commands -
        #logging level debugging user process mdns
        #logging level debugging system process mdns
    Command to see policy entries
    Command to see service level  Auto-assciate
    Command to see records of each of the airgroup servers and the buckets (AP name/FQLN) in which they fall into
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