Lossless Codec Export

Hi everyone,
I'm having problem getting my head round codecs!
I always export from AE and take my scenes to FinalCutPro for the edit.
What's the highest quality file I can take to FCP?
Is uncompressed the best option?
There are two options in the codec drop down menu for Uncompressed.
Uncompressed YUV10bit
Uncompressed YUV8bit
What's the difference and which should I use?!
When I add to render queue it automatically sets the codec to lossless. but if you click it and go to codec menu, there is no lossless
option in the codec drop down?! Is this the same as the animation codec?
Arggg!
I just want to know whats the best codec for the maximum quality export to take to FCP for the last edit.
I appreciate any help.
Thankss

The "Lossless" preset on Mac uses Quicktime Animation since lossless merely means visually lossless and does not preclude binary compression. For sending your stuff to FCP it mostly comes down to what your project settings are. Yes, Apple Uncompressed is okay, but many times you may still want to use ProRes or the conventional Animation or PNG CoDecs to save disk space and keep file sizes small. There's really no "one size fits all". Especially when your footage started out as compressed and may already have gone through heavy conversion and processing by mangling it in AE there may be other things to consider and contribute much more to retaining quality like just using "fat" uncompressed files...
Mylenium

Similar Messages

Color Space Question... using Lagarith Lossless Codec.

Hi all,
I use the Lagarith Lossless Codec for all my source editing files importing into Premiere Pro and for exporting to my encoder I use.
My question is this. I found that most of my sources are in YUV color space, so when I prep them for editing using VirtualDub, etc... I export them to Lagarith Lossless Codec in the YUY2 color space setting. The size difference between using RGB and YUY2 is enough to make me want to just use YUY2. So when editing those prepped files in YUY2 in Premiere Pro and them exporting the in the same YUY2 color space configuration, does it degrade in quality at all? I heard somewhere that Premiere Pro ONLY edits in RGB color space. So am I really messing up here or is it safe to do what I am doing?
Thanks in advance!

Premiere Pro will keep the color space of the original media. And many of the effects can now also operate in YUV space (They are marked by the YUV icon.) However, any effects you use that are not marked with that icon will force an RGB conversion.

Lossless codec?

I'm a bit confused on how to begin with a lossless codec. I was recommended to use one so I can export peices of my project then re-import them without losing quality. But all that I know about codecs is that I download them, and they help me use certain file types.
How do i specify to premeire that I would like to use a lossless codec once I have downloaded it?
Also does anyone reccomend a certain type of lossless codec, and is there a danger of it messing up my other codecs? This is why I haven't touched it so far.

Jeff,
If starting with footage that is already highly compressed (most camera formats today), something like Lagarith might be overkill, creating unnecessarily large files.
I agree with Jim Simon. When one already has a heavily-compressed file, the LAST thing that they would want is more compression. That is the ideal time to use lossless, regardless of file size.
As an example from a slightly different dicipline, if I was handed a JPEG Still Image, the last thing that I wanted to use as an intermediate was another JPEG. It was TIFF, or more often, PSD.
Why take heavily-compressed material, and then apply ANY lossey compression to that? You have already lost part of the collected data, so why lose more? That is a prime time to NOT compress with a lossey CODEC again.
I disagree here.
Hunt

Near lossless HDV export?

Does CS3 have settings for near lossless HDV export - for those segments of the timeline where the video is unchanged? For example, let's say I have four HDV mpeg2 clips. The first two are clips that butt up against each other: no transitions, no effects. Clip 2 cross-dissolves into clip 3. Clip 4 has effects. In near lossless, I would imagine that for clips 1 and 2, CS3 would copy the frames (GOPs?) with no data change (instead of rerendering) up until the first dissolve. At the beginning of the dissolve CS3 would render and then, after the dissolve, go back to laying down an exact copy of the part of the mpeg on the timeline that was unchanged. For clip 4, CS3 would have to completely rerender.
Is this a nutty question? Or is there a setting to tell CS3: just copy the mpeg2 HDV video exactly - when possible?
Thanks in advance!

The question is not nutty but uninformed. Datawise there is no such thing as a single frame in native HDV. You should know that HDV is a compressed format which combines information over multiple frames. In other words a group of frames are compressed together and the processor decompresses them into separate frames when you watch the video. However, when you render, the processor re-combines multiple frames. Therefore you can not render on the frame.
The only way to render on the frame is to use a codec which decompresses the native formet once and for all into single frames. From there on you can go down many generations with minimum loss.
Use the award winning Cineform codec, either Aspect or Prospect (Aspect works perfectly for me).

Using lossless codec with air tunes / airport express

i recently installed an airport express so that i can listen to my itunes library on my stereo. i have connected the airport to my stereo using a toslink cable. most of my library is encoded at 192kbs or 128 kbs aac files. i was hoping that if i encoded music using the lossless codec that i would be able to match the sound i get from my cd player through the stereo. my early tests have not worked well. if i compare a song in my itues encoded at 128, 192, 256 and lossless they all sound basically the same when played through my stereo using airport express. none of them sound as good as the same song played through my stereo from the cd player. the cd player is hooked up via a digital coax and both the cd player and the airport express are programmed identically in the stereo (using the stereo uplink sample). my asumption was that since both sources are digital (assuming that itunes to express to toslink remains digital) and that from what i have read the lossless codec is indistinguishable from a cd in playback that the two would sound the same. however the cd sounds much louder and fuller.has anyone had a sucessfull experience where the airport express has matched a cd in playback quality? any thoughts / suggestion? thanks.
ian

hi james. my understanding is that i am feeding a digital signal from itunes to ax to my stereo and that because i am using a toslink optical connection from the ax to my stereo the signal remains digital until the stereo's internal dac converts it. this is essentially the same process that is happening with the cd player. the digital coax feeds a digital signal to the stereo where the stereo's internal dac converts the signal. so the question becomes why with a lossless codec would there be any difference in sound quality if the digital signal is being processed exactly the same way in the stereo? my only answer is that i am not receiving a pure digital feed from the itunes to ax to stereo path. somewhere it is being stepped on. any thoughts?
ian

AME codec problem - CamStudio Lossless codec

Hi,
I've been using CamStudio to record my work for ages using lossless codec and then downgrage perfect original to needed formats via AME CS3. This version seemed to understand that there are other codecs installed on my system. But with greater versions of AME: CS4 and CS5, Adobe "upgraded" the product so it no longer sees the codecs. What was that for? It's really making me crazy because I have tons of material I can't encode anymore. If there was at least a way to get good old AME CS3.
Is there any way to make AME see installed codecs?
Thanks

Thank you Jeff, that makes sense.
Unfortunately, the codec I need is only available as 32 bit version so I'll need to find some other encoder.

Lossless codec in imovie 09

Hi,
I have created several slideshows in imovie 09, which I now want to burn in a DVD to be viewed on a plasma TV.
There is an obvious problem in this process and the key word is de-interlacing.
Photo slideshows are progressive in nature. DVDs are intrelaced. Plasma TV's progressive as well. It's silly, but it has to be a dvd, because it's a present and it can't come with a BD player or a media player or put on youtube.
To ad to this comes compressing and re-compressing (jpeg,mov,dvd)
So, I am only trying to get the best possible results, which I know won't be perfect.
(Sorry for the long intro but it helps sometimes)
01.So, what codec can I use in imovie for lossless quality?
02.What is the best codec in imovie for images and slideshows
03.Is there a way to keep the video progressive? (I tryed exporting as DV progressive but it keeps coming with errors and just won't export)
thank you in advance

I would not mess around with deinterlacing; TVs today can deinterlace perfectly well themselves. You may cause more problems by trying to deinterlace with the software. Unless there are problems, a progressive image can be put onto an interlaced medium (as you correctly pointed out that DVDs are always interlaced) and the disc should be flagged automatically to be displayed as progressive, if you have a progressive scan DVD player. And if your DVD player is not progressive, then any TV today will display properly anyway.
So just be sure to export to a progressive format. Try Photo Jpeg and see if there are any problems when viewed *on an actual TV*.
And of course, this process is not "lossless" with respect to your photos. As you know, video is very low resolution compared to photos. But people are used to TVs, and usually do not notice how low-definition pictures are, as long as they are viewed on an actual TV.
I don't think DV can ever be progressive, by I am not sure.

Sequence Settings for "Apple Lossless" codec !?!?

Help,
I am editing a project and the material was delivered to me in the "Apple Lossless, stereo, 44100 khz DV, 720x480 (640x480), millions
Is there a Sequence settings I can use to edit this without having to render it in the timeline ?!?
Many thanks,
David Berry

o maybe FCP is only able to work in certain formats without having to compress ?o maybe FCP is only able to work in certain formats without having to compress ?
All the formats in the EASY SETUP are what it works with basically. But you can create custom setups..but they will NOT be realtime. That is what that trick is all about. If that trick doesn't work, then it is a format that FCP isn't gonna work with without recompressing. But audio still needs to be 48Khz 16-bit aiff files.
There are other NLEs out there that do this...Vegas, SpeedRazor...you can look into using them if you are constantly going to be dealing with odd codecs.
Shane

After Effects Lossless AVI Export Problems

Hi,
I have a very strange problem that only occurs sometimes. It is kind of hard to explain, so bare with me.
I'll just explain my process first:
I import and edit all my video files in premiere pro CS5.5. Then I import my Premiere Pro Project into After Effects CS5.5 for Color Grading. While I scrub through my footage everything looks fine.
I then Add my Comp to the Render queue, and select Best Settings, and Lossless AVI with Audio Output.
After the footage renders, I watch it and every now and then a frame will be inserted from at least 7 frames up into the current time. This makes the footage look choppy/jumpy. Example: The character is walking and for one frame he will jump a couple inches forward, and the next frame he will be back again.
This might happen a couple times in a row or every other shot. I thought maybe my computer was just playing it slow in Windows Media Player - but I imported the Lossless AVI file into Premiere Pro to play it in that, and it still has the same problem.
I don't know what the problem is. I would just like my AE Comp to output smoothly without adding those extra frames on my footage.
Here's an example image:
If any of you could please help me, that would be great! Thanks!
COMPUTER INFO:
PC: HP Elite 7000 MT
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium
System Type: 64-bit Operating System
Processor: Intel Core i7 CPU 860 @ 2.80GHz 2.80GHz
Installed Memory (RAM): 16.0 GB
Graphics Card: GeForce G210
Graphics Clock: 589MHz
Processor Clock: 1402MHz
Hope that helps!

Szalam
Okay, I just made a bunch of tests.
1) I converted an .MTS file to an .AVI with the Lagarith codec. Then I imported that into AE. When I RAM Previewed it, I did not get the jump from frame to frame thing.
2) I also imported the same video file, only an .MTS version and RAM Previewed that. Again, I did not have the problem I have been having.
3) I made a new Premiere Pro Sequence and imported the same .MTS file I had been using. Then I went to AE and imported that Premiere Pro project (trying to go through the steps that got me to the problem in the first place), and tried RAM previewing that. Again, I did not have the problem I had been getting.
So I obviously cannot re-create my issue. But the issue is still there in my other AE project. If I open up my AE Project that I had the problem with in the first place, I still get the jumpy frame issue when I preview it!
I even tried creating a new AE project (willing to re-color grade all my footage), hoping that the problem would not be there. But when I create the new AE project and import my Premiere Pro project, the issue is still there.
Is there something wrong with my Premiere pro project? When I play my premiere pro project without it going to AE it works fine, no issue. But when I import it into AE the issue is there!
It has to be the Premiere Pro Project or the sequences in that project. Since, like I said above in test number 3: " I made a new Premiere Pro Sequence. Then I went to AE and imported that Premiere Pro sequence, RAM previewed that. And I did not have the problem."
What is going on? Will re-editing my entire project in a whole new Premiere Pro project fix my issue? What if it doesn't, and this happens again? How do I fix this?
I really appreciate your help. I'm glad there is a place to go when I have a problem with Adobe Programs. I would never be able to figure this out by myself. Thanks!

Strange quicktime codec export behavior

I was trying to make a movie from an image sequence using "export quicktime movie" today and had some odd results. The goal was to get the best quality for the least file size, and I needed alot of compression, so I tried many combinations of codecs and quality settings. The first oddity, was that the file size of the movie using "least" quality was higher than that of "low" quality for several codecs, including H264, MPEG and Sorensen 3. The second oddity was that if I scaled the movie during the export, I got a file that was the same size as the unscaled movie. If I scaled first in another program (ImageJ) and then made the movie, it was smaller than the unscaled. Comments?
BTW- the winner was Sorensen-3-low

Not sure what you mean. The codec used and quality setting have dramatic effects on the final file size. Just try rendering a movie with different quality settings and you will see the difference. I have done this many times and know it is true. I just never went to "least" before.
Some codecs have independent controls to restrict the data rates and set "quality" (i.e., reiteration of certain processes) while In others, the data rate may be incorporated into the "quality" control. The Apple Animation codec, for instance will increase the video data rate in proportion with increases in the "quality" setting but H.264 has independent/active control settings for each.
In more concrete terms, think of the data rate as the speed of a traveling car, the duration of your clip as the time a car travels, and the file size as the total distance traveled by the car. It is easy to see that a car traveling 100 mph for 4 hours covers a total distance of 400 miles while a car traveling at 50 mph only covers 200 miles. In a similar manner a clip having a total average data rate of 4.0 Mbps is twice as large as the same clip having a total average data rate of only 2.0 Mbps. Thus, if you really want to compare the differences in your file storage sizes, compare their their total average data rates and not their quality settings.
I scaled the movie from about 600x400 to 400x200.
Still not sure if you are referring to a change in the display dimensions or a change to the encoding matrix. This is important since it affects how different devices/applications deal with the content. Any clip can be re-scaled independent of the the encoded resolution. I.e., you can simple grab the lower right-hand corner of a QT player and drag it to change the clip's display dimensions. (Alternatively, you can change the properties window using QT 7 Pro). However, this action does not change the "encoded" resolution of the clip even if the scale change is saved in the file. On the other hand, if you exported or transcoded the modified file to video compression formats not having a "standardized" encode data matrix (e.g., like NTSC MPEG-2 or DV content has), then both the default scale and encode matrix are changed.
In the first case, where a file is simple rescaled, QT 7 would open with the display defaulted to the "Current Size" dimensions stored in the file and, if converted to a different video compression format, it would use the "Current Size" to set the target dimensions for the conversion. QT X, on the other hand, would not. It would ignore the "Current Size" setting and use the encoded dimensions for a "save" conversion.
To complicate matters, some conversion processes are device aware and may additionally restrict export/conversion dimensions. For instance, let's say I have a 640x360 file encoded at 29.97/30 fps. If I scale it to 1280x720 and then export the resulting file to the QT TV preset, I will end up with 960x540 encoded/display file. But, If I do the same thing to a 640x360 23.976 fps file, I would end up with a 1280x720 encoded/display file.
BTW: you do realize you are changing the 3:2 aspect ratio of the 600x400 file to 2:1 in the 400x200 file. (Or are we also taking about "cropping" as part of your work flow?)
In one case, I scaled the original data with ImageJ and then used the reduced size image sequence in Quicktime to export a movie... If I scaled first in another program (ImageJ) and then made the movie, it was smaller than the unscaled.
This is what I would normally expect in QT 7 Pro if the "scaled" clip has a changed "Current Size."
The second oddity was that if I scaled the movie during the export, I got a file that was the same size as the unscaled movie... In the other, I imported the full sized images sequence into Quicktime and set the smaller size with the size dialog during movie export.
You would have to provide more detailed information regarding your work flow here -- i.e., specific QT Player and/or target compressor and size settings if both options were available in your work flow.

Lossless HDV export

If your captured files are HDV (from an FX1 for example), after you have edited this down to just the stuff you would like to keep, is there a way to export this from the timeline into the same format as the original capture files? Would this be just MPEG 2? Is there anyway to tell it to not recompress unless it has to for a transition or other special effect? I am looking for some way to store the finished videos in a form that I can later use to store on Blueray without losing quality.

Hi C.David,
I have done extensive testing of this with CS3. The .M2T export is NOT lossless. I'm a videophile and compared the footage on a few different HD displays, and a 1920x1080p projector. Even if you do no filters, overlays, color correction, etc., just straight cuts then re-export to HDV (via the export to tape/pull the cable trick) .M2T, you will see artifacting during scenes of extreme motion or scenes where the MPEG encoder has a very hard time with (my torture test is a pan following a woman walking along a beach where the ground is all stones, all the small stones are a killer for mpeg encoding). There is very noticeable motion artifacting on the .M2T output as compared with the original M2T shot from the camera.
BTW, I also did extensive experimentation with using some type of AVI intermediary, for both editing and as an output format, and NO avi, whether it's cineform or using smth like Lagarith lossless, provides the same degree of "3D" or "you are there" feeling as the original M2T footage has. Even if there is no 'generation loss' in terms of motion artifacts or loss of resolution, there is a definite and visible deterioration of the image quality when using either an AVI intermediary for editing (regardless of what kind of AVI) or outputting to avi. I was going to write a detailed report about this but I've been too busy...
Best results, by far, for me come with editing in native m2t and outputting to H.264 at about 30mpbs.
It really is a bummer. Re-encoding in PPro CS3 does have a generation loss, even without adding effects. Best results I've gotten is exporting to 1920x1440 H.264 at 25-30mbps (and then I distribute on BluRay or WMVHD for the web).
Best,
Patrick

Best visually lossless codec for cartoon prerenders with alpha

Hey guys. I've done a lot of research on this but still cannot find a satisfying solution.
I have hundreds of comps that I would like to prerender and re-use on a regular basis. These comps are simple solid colors, cartoons, for character animation. They contain LOTS of blank space, with the image only comprising a small part of the frame. This is necessary to line everything up in the end. I need to be able to decode these prerenders on Mac and Windows, but it is OK if they can only be encoded on Mac. I need it to be a fast codec for decoding, but I do not care how long it takes to encode them. I don't care what the container is, but Quicktime seems like the best container that AE supports.
After doing lots of tests, the only reasonable formats I could find were:
ProRes 4444
Animation
I have tried DnxHD, PNG (Quicktime), PNG (Image sequence), and all the other ProRes variants (with a separate movie for alpha). DnxHD doesn't work because it only works at fixed sizes and maxes out at 1920x1080. All the other ProRes variants don't work because they don't have alpha, and when I use a separate ProRes render for Alpha, there's artifacts on the edges. PNG in quicktime is far too slow to decode, and the files are bigger than Animation. Using image sequences is a pain to maintain and seems to be slower as well. I wish I could try out codecs like HuffYuv and Lagarith, but they are not supported on Mac.
ProRes 4x4 would be perfect, but I have no need for 16-bit color. Animation is the fastest codec, but produces files that are too big. At 75% quality, it produces files smaller than ProRes, but introduces some artifacts.
Wondering if there is an 8-bit codec with alpha that anyone would recommend for this.
Also, I am wondering if using a single, very long Quicktime file is faster for AE to use than lots of shorter Quicktime files.
Thanks,
Bryan

I think I found that PNG was kindof slow to render. I will give it another look.
The duration of the file question is really just about how AE manages its memory. Whether having a single file is better or many files. For game development, I am used to generating single spritesheets which contain all image data, rather than many small files. I am wondering if something similar is true with AE. I am basically trying to optimize our workflow as much as possible for maximum AE performance.
In the case of using one quicktime, it would be duplicated many times in AE, and time-remapped to break it apart into layers. Or it would simply already be broken apart as separate files. All files would be used all the time, as they are all the elements of a character's head rig (eyes, eyebrows, mouth, etc). In case you are wondering, the reason I want to prerender them is because they contain a lot of CPU-intensive effects (Mesh Warp, etc). These head rigs really slow down our workflow and also cause frequent crashes.

How Do I Add CODECs (e.g., FFV1, Lagarith) to Photoshop's 'Export Video' Options?

Hi all,
I'm trying to add lossless CODECs (e.g., FFV1, Lagarith) to Photoshop (and Premiere and After Effects and Adobe Media Encoder) so that I can generate archival videos with the highest possible lossless compression ratios. I've installed several CODECs, but none of them appear in Photoshop's 'Export Video' options, for example. How do I get these CODECs to appear?
For the record, I'm using CS5.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Dave

Found it!
I was concentrating almost entirely on Photoshop, where the new CODECs weren't appearing. To make things worse, I'm new to AME and wasn't looking in the right places. Selecting AVI and then breesing down to the Codec dropdown revealed Lagarith, ffdshow (FFV1, HuffYUV, etc.). Awesome. Now, let's give these suckers a whirl....
Thank you so much, Mylenium!

4 GB file size bug and No Audio on render output with Lossless Ut codec and Lagarith ?

System :
Win7 x64
NTFS Raid 0 Drive
SpeedGrade 2014.0.1
******BUG******
Cannot render correctly using Ut lossless codec or Lagarith. Probably due to 4 GB size limit bug.
Steps to reproduce bug:
A single PAL 25 fps ProRes 1920x1080 clip, 4 minutes long which contains 200 cut/scene changes.
Split using scene changes detect.
Choose "split clip"
Applied looks (most of the time, i just use default cinematic 2 with a little bit adjustment)
Render using lossless codec above.
Results:
Rendering using small duration (10 seconds) on both Ut and Lagarith, there are no sound produced, although the video render correctly.
Render the whole clip (4 minutes)
On Ut : The result render is messed up, the clip were overlap, or sometimes it's just resulting a garbage video (blank screen with no sound)
On Lagarith : Unplayable video (crash to playback/open either in media player or in Adobe Media Encoder)
Expected results:
The video render result from lagarith and Ut "stuck" on 4 GB file size.
The problem was not occurred if using different codec (Animation lossless), even can produced 18 GB of clip which can playback fine and with audio.
Note :
I also have report the bug (?) in feature/bug report Adobe web page.
The current workaround is render using Animation (but i don't like it, the size were too big, i cannot export my long project using this codec)
Message was edited by: bill gates
Reason : Adding info

>Multiplexing: None
I think that means you get separate video and sound files (but, I don't do BluRay, so could be wrong)

Does Quicktime Pro when installed offer more codec for iMovie Export

Hi
I have a client that wants Master quality 1080p LOSSLESS no matter what size for their presentations done in iMovie. I use QuickTime.
I know they want a true lossless codec that can be used in other edition programs. I was thinking on getting QTP7
If installed, does it have a master archival for video output that can be access from an imovie project.
Thank you
PS they also need to distribute to customer that use Premiere Adobe

QuickTime Pro does not give you more codecs, but Final Cut Pro X and Logic Pro 9 will both give you more codecs. I don't use Adobe, so I don't know what they are wanting.
In iMovie, you can export in Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple Animation Codec. Both of these are full i-frame codecs.
If you have Final Cut Pro X or Logic Pro installed, you can also export from iMovie in ProRes 422, but the internal editing will not be in ProRes 422 so I am not sure that it would gain you anything.
If you had Final Cut Pro installed, you could import into FCP as ProRes 422, then import the ProRes clips into iMovie and edit it there, and then export as ProRes 422. But if you have FCPX installed, it is just as easy to edit it in FCPX.
It is possible that Apple's Compressor ($50) app would give you the ProRes codecs, but I have no way to test that.

Lossless Codec Export

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