Mail Nightmare
I had a bunch of mail messages, critical for work, that were in my Inbox. I moved them via the folder/mailbox icon in the tool bar to mail folder designated for this particular work. Then when looking in the folder all the messages had disappeared. When I did a search for them (via the find window in Mail) none of them appeared. I rebuilt the Inbox to no avail. All of these messages are gone!
What the heck is going on here! This could have been a real disaster. Thankfully I had the messages on another computer also and could forward copies to myself (to my work computer) but if I hadn't been able too.... I dread thinking about it.
Mail in Mavericks seems to have ocassional glitches like this.
Help, what do I do?
Thanks,
Dan
DanG77,
We cannot help you if you don't bother to complete a profile that lets us know what iMac you own, the version of OS X it's running, etc.. You mentioned Mavericks however from your post it's not clear if that is the version of OS X you have installed. iMacs have been out for well over 10 years and so has OS X and so has Mail so without knowing specifics it's almost impossible to help you. If you don't know how to complete a profile please read:
Update your Profile located at https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-3602
Similar Messages
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I have had non stop problems with all aspects of my Mac Mail. I can't send, am not receiving properly. When I do receive and click on an email, it's NOT showing the mail I'm trying to view but rather
another email that's been imported ????? REALLY QUIRKY STUFF ...
Never encountered this before. ALSO, I am having to do a "Force Quit" so I can reopen, only to continue having the same problems. I don't see anywhere that mac mail problems, as a group have been listed in our account, as they (Apple) usually reports down time and problematic nightmares outages ?? Any imput here ???
Thanks, elinorSo it seems nobody has any idea how to fix this strange and awful Mail behavior? I lost several very important messages this morning using the "Move To" command in the "Messge" drop down menu. So the problem is worse than I thought. I realized that I could recover these messages from my Time Machine backup, and this is what I did.
But what the h... is going on here? Why is this crazy behaivor happening, and how does one fix it? Does anyone anywhere have a clue about this?
I am considering doing an entirely clean install of Mavericks, and recoving my date then from the Time Machine drive to see if that fixes it. Might it? If so, how do I do a clean, fresh install of Mavericks?
Thanks for any help you can give me... pleeeeeeeeeeez.
Dan -
Help mail nightmare since upgrading to tiger!!!!!
Since I upgraded to tiger I have had nothing but trouble with mail. When I open mail there is no message viewer, I have to create a new one everytime and it is always blank - there are folders but no messages. When i try to get new mail it looks but gets nothing - it is online and I've used connection doctor to check. When i use activity viewer it says it is checking with the server but still nothing appears. The only way I can check my emails is to directly access my .mac account where all my mail is found but for some reason it won't download with mail. Also when I try to quit mail it won't and I have to force quit! Please help, I'm really stuck and its a nightmare!
Mac OS X (10.4)Verify/repair the startup disk (not just permissions), as described here:
The Repair functions of Disk Utility: what's it all about?
After having fixed all filesystem issues, if any, proceed as follows:
0. Quit Mail if it’s running.
1. Open /Applications/Utilities/Console.
2. From the File menu, choose either Open Console Log, or Open System Log, or both, so that the Console application displays the contents of both system.log and console.log.
3. In the Finder, go to /Applications/, and open Mail by double-clicking on it. Look at the bottom of the Console windows for messages that might be written there as a result. They may provide some clues as to what the problem is.
Do you have any Mail plug-ins? In the Finder, go to each of the following folders (if they exist). What do you see there?
/Library/InputManagers/
~/Library/InputManagers/
/Library/Mail/Bundles/
~/Library/Mail/Bundles/
Note: For those not familiarized with the ~/ notation, it refers to the user’s home folder. You can easily locate any of the folders referred to in this post by copying the file path here, doing Go > Go to Folder in the Finder, and pasting the file path there. -
Someone please help me with this Mac mail nightmare!!!
somewhere between 10.2 and 10.3 my mail settings became all wild and out of control. What I'm talking about is this. When I open my Mac in the morning, or anytime I go online I must first clear out all mail in my .Mac mail account first before proceeding to Mac mail. If I don't delete all mail in .Mac's mail account first, and then open Mac mail, it will freeze up on me immeadiately. Even if I'm using mail and more mail comes into .Mac mail account from the Internet....it will freeze up too. This has become very tiresome!
So, everytime I want to send an email from Mac mail, I must first go .Mac mail account and delete all mail .
Has anyone else experienced this problem? If so, do you have a solution?
MahaloVerify/repair your disk first (not just permissions), as described here:
The Repair functions of Disk Utility: what's it all about?
Now, try the following in order to identify (not solve) the problem:
1. Either tell Mail to go offline immediately after opening it, or shut down your Internet connection and open Mail afterwards.
2. Go to Preferences > Junk Mail and disable junk mail filtering.
3. Go online again.
Post back with your observations. -
Modifying existing mail rules now even worse with Mavericks 10.9.1
Mail nightmares continue with Mavericks update 10.9.1 installed. In fact, the nightmare gets bigger. The story goes like this.
Prior to Mavericks, I created a stack of rules to move Mail messages from the Inbox to designated Mailboxes, e.g. messages from Friends would be moved to a Friends mailbox. Everything worked fine.
Along comes Mavericks, and when I Edit a rule to add a new recipient, and Apply that rule change to Move existing messages to another mailbox, messages would be Copied instead of being Moved, even though Move was the only action selected.
Now with Mavericks 10.9.1, nothing happens when I Edit an existing rule and then Apply the rule change to an existing message. The messae just sits in the Inbox and does not appear at all in the Mailbox I want to move it to.
How do I modify mail rules to move a message to another mailbox, then apply that rule modification to existing messages?Hi BG 29,
Unfortunatelly you are not the only one with this problem. I am in the same situation with the exception that once I create the rule the new incoming messages will go to the designated mailbox. If you want to create a new rule, the message will just copy, not move to the mailbox. I contacted Apple support and a representative called me back and asked me to do all kind of stuff, but no luck. I was hopping that the update to 10.9.1 will solve this, but again no luck. I gave up in trying....I am waiting for the next update and hope for the best. -
Can't see any more my messages from the differents mailbox
I have 5 mailbox (see image screen at beginning) and usually I can go from one to another seing a navigation volet (french term sorry) and I don't know what happen, I'm in one of them, impossible to see the others (see screan now) and to go in the other mailbox.... could you help me to recover the navigation volet on the left
regards and merry chrismass ;-)
RonieI have a similar problem with Mailboxes but cannot find a discussion to help me. I have two e-mail accounts - Yahoo and gmail. Yahoo is my primary account. I seldom ever use gmail for anything. One subscription required it or I would not have a gmail account at all.
Recently the gmail account keeps growing mailboxes. I can't get rid of them either. I found instructions here on how to get the gmail messages (of which there are less than 4 and seldom any new ones) to go into the Inbox and NOT into the gmail box. I followed the directions and the Yahoo Inbox and subfolders all disappeared from Thunderbird (they still exist, just do NOT show) and the gmail boxes increased by two more. I want to see the Yahoo Boxes of whci there are many. I do not care a whit about the Gmail boxes and want nothing more than a gmail Inbox and Trash at the very most. Now I cannot see any of my Yahoo boxes, have several empty gmail boxes. It's an e-mail nightmare! All I can think to do is to remove Thunderbird altogether and start over. I NEED my Yahoo Inbox. It contains important messages! How can I get them to reappear? -
hi..what settings work on iphone 4 - lineone mail server setup.. have tried Tiscali recommendations, which aren't biong picked up..nightmare..!
Used Imap, Pop mail..!Thanks for the quick read and response. Do you feel the issue might lie with the fact that it is a Mac Mini? And possibly just not powerful enough to run Leopard Server? I have to say in our trials with MacPro it was like night and day as to how they performed. And if you could elaborate on this "Many VPNs don't play well with NAT so your VPN server should have a direct connection to the public network (preferably firewalled, of course, but not NATted)." Most every SoHo and for that matter uses simple NAT translation for security even our multi thousand dollar Cisco PIX and ASA's are basic NAT devices to start with. How would you put the VPN on public net while keeping the attack surface low for the rest of the services like file, web, mail and print?
Don't get me wrong I want this to work more than you can imagine. We are so tired of supporting MSFT technologies that cost thousands a year in antivirus, antispyware, antispam and other malware protection for the enterprise. We know that Leopard has great potential but for an integrator, getting this system up and functional is not an easy task. And the worst part of it is every time we have called for support the tech always lets out a sigh when they hear we have run standard setup because they are not allowed to walk us thru the server console to make repairs. And have been told by 3 techs so far that this is a new product and the support avenues are not there for standard since it just supposed to work out of the box. But when it doesn't then ohh well. Which is sorta sad...
DM -
Mail still a nightmare after 10.9.1 update
Hi,
I have done the Mavericks 10.9.1 update and my mail application is STILL a NIGHTMARE!
Here are my problems (I didn't have anaything on 10.8):
- Auto-selection is active when I want forward/reply all/reply => As soon as I start to write an email address, the text is auto-selected, and so I can not write more than two characters.
- Gmail is still not supported. I have two gmail accounts managed by Mail.
=> If I use my two accounts, then mail use around 40% of CPU ALL THE TIME! and 5ko/s for???
=> If I disconnect one of my account, then Mail use 15 % of CPU all the time.
=> I cannot parametrize my gmail account. All options are selected and I cannot unselect anything.
=> I still cannot drag and drop with my gmail accounts.
So the update haven't change anything on my MBP Retina.
Is someone as an idea to fix this nightmare?
Thank you in advance for your help.I finally found a solution to this problem and another problem I was having with Apple Calendar and Google Calendar not playing nice with calendar reminders.
I installed Thunderbird with the Lightning add-on and gContactSync add-on. This was quick and very easy to setup.
Thunderbird replaces Apple Mail.
Lightning replaces Apple Calendar.
gContactSync syncs Google Contacts with the Thunderbird AddressBook. I use this just so I have my contact email addresses in Thunderbird, but I can still use Apple Contacts or Gmail Contacts as my main place to retrieve, input, or edit contact info.
It is nice to finally have this Gmail issue and Google Calendar issue resolved. It is frustrating that Apple can't get this fixed. The calendar issue has never been fixed. I wonder how long Apple customers have to endure the Gmail issue? It seems amazing that one of the main features of a computer, email, does not work when the OS is released to market and the customer has deal with a fundamental bug for months. Amazing.
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/thunderbird/addon/lightning/?src=ss
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/thunderbird/addon/gcontactsync/?src=ss -
Mail/AOL Mail Saved Message Nightmare
I set my boss up to use AOL's imap server to send and receive email through osx's mail application. He dragged all of his important messages to the saved folder. What happened next was strange. Although the folder is on the mac itself, the messages uploaded to somewhere, leaving the folder empty. I went on his regular account and checked the saved messages box and it was empty. AOL has no idea where they went if they are not in the saved folder on their ACS. I checked the computer itself and could not locate any of the mails. Has anyone else ran into this problem?
G4Laptop Mac OS X (10.4.7)Assorted tidbits that may or may not be of use to those following this thread:
1. As of August 5, I was still able to save whatever emails I wanted to select from any Mail mailbox to the AOL "Saved" mailbox with no errors or disappearance problems of any kind whatsoever.
2. As of approximately one month ago, I could with Mail.app also move any email I wanted from the AOL IMAP inbox to the AOL "Spam" mailbox. This is what some official AOL help documents indicate is the equivalent to using the AOL client app "Report Spam" button, so I assume this is, or at least was previously, officially supported with IMAP access to AOL email as the approved way to report spam when not using AOL client or web mail access.
2.a. At some point in the last ten days or so, I noticed this 'report spam' equivalent was not working properly with Mail.app. I don't know the exact date this started happening since I don't often have to use the feature, but what I do know is that as of ~ July 28, I started getting error messages similar to the ones we now see for moving messages to "Saved." So far, the error messages are all that happens with this -- IOW, there is no disappearance problem, only a refusal to accept any email into the "Spam" server folder via Mail.app.
3. In Mail.app, using the menu "Copy to..." option for attempts to move messages into the affected AOL-based folders works very much the same as with drag & drop, except the existing copy is never deleted from the source mailbox, so I suggest this is a better way to test for the problem than by risking any messages you might want to save.
3.a. Using the copy option may initially look like it succeeds, even when it doesn't. In my case, messages copied to "Saved" sometimes did appear there in Mail's view even after opening the "Saved" mailbox view, which I assume from Mail's Activity window does cause some small amount of syncing. However, within 10 seconds to about a minute, the newly copied message still disappears, which I assume is due to some server-side problem a 'full' sync shows.
4. Until AOL sorts out all the details of its "new" incarnation, It is probably best not to count on saving anything to its servers, even with the web mail interface. -
I recently installed a fresh version of Lion Server after attempting to fix a broken upgrade. With some help from others, I've managed to get all the new features working and have kept notes, having found that many or most of the necessary installation steps for both the OS and its services are almost entirely undocumented. When you get them working, they work great, but the entire process is very fragile, with simple setup steps causing breaks or even malicious behaviors. In case this is useful to others, here are my notes.
Start with an erased, virgin, single guid partitioned drive. Not an upgrade. Not simply a repartitioned drive. Erased. Clean. Anything else can and probably will break the Lion Server install, as I discovered myself more than once. Before erasing my drive, I already had Lion and made a Lion install DVD from instructions widely available on the web. I suppose you could also boot into the Lion recovery partition and use disk utility to erase the OS X partition then install a new partition, but I cut a DVD. The bottom line is to erase any old OS partitions. And of course to have multiple, independent backups: I use both Time Machine with a modified StdExclusions.plist and Carbon Copy Cloner.
Also, if you will be running your own personal cloud, you will want to know your domain name ahead of time, as this will be propagated everywhere throughout server, and changing anything related to SSL on Lion Server is a nightmare that I haven't figured out. If you don't yet have a domain name, go drop ten dollars at namecheap.com or wherever and reserve one before you start. Soemday someone will document how to change this stuff without breaking Lion Server, but we're not there yet. I'll assume the top-level domain name "domain.com" here.
Given good backups, a Lion Install DVD (or Recovery Partition), and a domain name, here are the steps, apparently all of which must be more-or-less strictly followed in this order.
DVD>Disk Utility>Erase Disk [or Recovery Partition>Disk Utility>Erase Partition]
DVD>Install Lion
Reboot, hopefully Lion install kicks in
Update, update, update Lion (NOT Lion Server yet) until no more updates
System Preferences>Network>Static IP on the LAN (say 10.0.1.2) and Computer name ("server" is a good standbye)
Terminal>$ sudo scutil --set HostName server.domain.com
App Store>Install Lion Server and run through the Setup
Download install Server Admin Tools, then update, update, update until no more updates
Server Admin>DNS>Zones [IF THIS WASN'T AUTOMAGICALLY CREATED (mine wasn't): Add zone domain.com with Nameserver "server.domain.com." (that's a FQDN terminated with a period) and a Mail Exchanger (MX record) "server.domain.com." with priority 10. Add Record>Add Machine (A record) server.domain.com pointing to the server's static IP. You can add fancier DNS aliases and a simpler MX record below after you get through the crucial steps.]
System Prefs>Network>Advanced>Set your DNS server to 127.0.0.1
A few DNS set-up steps and these most important steps:
A. Check that the Unix command "hostname" returns the correct hostname and you can see this hostname in Server.app>Hardware>Network
B. Check that DNS works: the unix commands "host server.domain.com" and "host 10.0.1.2" (assuming that that's your static IP) should point to each other. Do not proceed until DNS works.
C. Get Apple Push Notification Services CA via Server.app>Hardware>Settings><Click toggle, Edit... get a new cert ...>
D. Server.app>Profile Manager>Configure... [Magic script should create OD Master, signed SSL cert]
E. Server.app>Hardware>Settings>SSL Certificate> [Check to make sure it's set to the one just created]
F. Using Server.app, turn on the web, then Server.app>Profile Manager> [Click on hyperlink to get to web page, e.g. server.domain.com/profilemanager] Upper RHS pull-down, install Trust Profile
G. Keychain Access>System>Certificates [Find the automatically generated cert "Domain", the one that is a "Root certificate authority", Highlight and Export as .cer, email to all iOS devices, and click on the authority on the device. It should be entered as a trusted CA on all iOS devices. While you're at it, highlight and Export... as a .cer the certificate "IntermediateCA_SERVER.DOMAIN.COM_1", which is listed an an "Intermediate CA" -- you will use this to establish secure SSL connections with remote browsers hitting your server.]
H. iOS on LAN: browse to server.domain.com/mydevices> [click on LHS Install trust cert, then RHS Enroll device.
I. Test from web browser server.domain.com/mydevices: Lock Device to test
J. ??? Profit
12. Server Admin>DNS>Zones> Add convenient DNS alias records if necessary, e.g., mail.domain.com, smtp.domain.com, www.domain.com. If you want to refer to your box using the convenient shorthand "domain.com", you must enter the A record (NOT alias) "domain.com." FQDN pointing to the server's fixed IP. You can also enter the convenient short MX record "domain.com." with priority 11. This will all work on the LAN -- all these settings must be mirrored on the outside internet using the service from which you registered domain.com.
You are now ready to begin turning on your services. Here are a few important details and gotchas setting up cloud services.
Firewall
Server Admin>Firewall>Services> Open up all ports needed by whichever services you want to run and set up your router (assuming that your server sits behind a router) to port forward these ports to your router's LAN IP. This is most a straightforward exercise in grepping for the correct ports on this page, but there are several jaw-droppingly undocumented omissions of crucial ports for Push Services and Device Enrollment. If you want to enroll your iOS devices, make sure port 1640 is open. If you want Push Notifications to work (you do), then ports 2195, 2196, 5218, and 5223 must be open. The Unix commands "lsof -i :5218" and "nmap -p 5218 server.domain.com" (nmap available from Macports after installing Xcode from the App Store) help show which ports are open.
SSH
Do this with strong security. Server.app to turn on remote logins (open port 22), but edit /etc/sshd_config to turn off root and password logins.
PermitRootLogin no
PasswordAuthentication no
ChallengeResponseAuthentication no
I'm note sure if toggling the Allow remote logins will load this config file or, run "sudo launchctl unload -w /System/Library/LaunchAgents/org.openbsd.ssh-agent.plist ; sudo launchctl load -w /System/Library/LaunchAgents/org.openbsd.ssh-agent.plist" to restart the server's ssh daemon.
Then use ssh-keygen on remote client to generate public/private keys that can be used to remotely login to the server.
client$ ssh-keygen -t rsa -b 2048 -C client_name
[Securely copy ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub from client to server.]
server$ cat id_rsa.pub > ~/.ssh/known_hosts
I also like DenyHosts, which emails detected ssh attacks to [email protected]. It's amazing how many ssh attacks there are on any open port 22. Not really an added security feature if you've turned off password logins, but good to monitor. Here's a Lion Server diff for the config file /usr/share/denyhosts:
$ diff denyhosts.cfg-dist denyhosts.cfg
12c12
< SECURE_LOG = /var/log/secure
> #SECURE_LOG = /var/log/secure
22a23
> SECURE_LOG = /var/log/secure.log
34c35
< HOSTS_DENY = /etc/hosts.deny
> #HOSTS_DENY = /etc/hosts.deny
40a42,44
> #
> # Mac OS X Lion Server
> HOSTS_DENY = /private/etc/hosts.deny
195c199
< LOCK_FILE = /var/lock/subsys/denyhosts
> #LOCK_FILE = /var/lock/subsys/denyhosts
202a207,208
> LOCK_FILE = /var/denyhosts/denyhosts.pid
> #
219c225
< ADMIN_EMAIL =
> ADMIN_EMAIL = [email protected]
286c292
< #SYSLOG_REPORT=YES
> SYSLOG_REPORT=YES
Network Accounts
User Server.app to create your network accounts; do not use Workgroup Manager. If you use Workgroup Manager, as I did, then your accounts will not have email addresses specified and iCal Server WILL NOT COMPLETELY WORK. Well, at least collaboration through network accounts will be handled clunkily through email, not automatically as they should. If you create a network account using Workgroup Manager, then edit that account using Server.app to specify the email to which iCal invitations may be sent. Server.app doesn't say anything about this, but that's one thing that email address entry is used for. This still isn't quite solid on Lion Server, as my Open Directory logs on a freshly installed Lion Server are filled with errors that read:
2011-12-12 15:05:52.425 EST - Module: SystemCache - Misconfiguration detected in hash 'Kerberos':
User 'uname' (/LDAPv3/127.0.0.1) - ID 1031 - UUID 98B4DF30-09CF-42F1-6C31-9D55FE4A0812 - SID S-0-8-83-8930552043-0845248631-7065481045-9092
Oh well.
Email
Email aliases are handled with the file /private/etc/postfix/aliases. Do something like this
root: myname
admin: myname
sysadmin: myname
certadmin: myname
webmaster: myname
my_alternate: myname
Then run "sudo newaliases". If your ISP is Comcast or some other large provider, you probably must proxy your outgoing mail through their SMTP servers to avoid being blocked as a spammer (a lot of SMTP servers will block email from Comcast/whatever IP addresses that isn't sent by Comcast). Use Server.app>Mail to enter your account information. Even then, the Lion Server default setup may fail using this proxy. I had to do this with the file /private/etc/postfix/main.cf:
cd /etc/postfix
sudo cp ./main.cf ./main.cf.no_smtp_sasl_security_options
sudo echo 'smtp_sasl_security_options = noanonymous' >> ./main.cf
sudo serveradmin stop mail
sudo serveradmin start mail
Finally, make sure that you're running a blacklisting srevice yourself! Server Admin>Mail>Filter> Use spamhaus.org as a blacklister. Finally, set up mail to use strong Kerberos/MD5 settings under on Server Admin>Mail>Advanced. Turn off password and clear logins. The settings should be set to "Use" your SSL cert, NOT "Require". "Require" consistently breaks things for me.
If you already installed the server's Trust Certificate as described above (and opened up the correct ports), email to your account should be pushed out to all clients.
iCal Server
Server.app>Calendar>Turn ON and Allow Email Invitations, Edit... . Whatever you do, do NOT enter your own email account information in this GUI. You must enter the account information for local user com.apple.calendarserver, and the password for this account, which is stored in the System keychain: Keychain Access>System> Item com.apple.servermgr_calendar. Double-click and Show Password, copy and paste into Server.app dialog. This is all described in depth here. If you enter your own account information here (DO NOT!), the iCal Server will delete all Emails in your Inbox just as soon as it reads them, exactly like it works for user com.apple.calendarserver. Believe me, you don't want to discover this "feature", which I expect will be more tightly controlled in some future update.
Web
The functionality of Server.app's Web management is pretty limited and awful, but a few changes to the file /etc/apache2/httpd.conf will give you a pretty capable and flexible web server, just one that you must manage by hand. Here's a diff for httpd.conf:
$ diff httpd.conf.default httpd.conf
95c95
< #LoadModule ssl_module libexec/apache2/mod_ssl.so
> LoadModule ssl_module libexec/apache2/mod_ssl.so
111c111
< #LoadModule php5_module libexec/apache2/libphp5.so
> LoadModule php5_module libexec/apache2/libphp5.so
139,140c139,140
< #LoadModule auth_digest_apple_module libexec/apache2/mod_auth_digest_apple.so
< #LoadModule encoding_module libexec/apache2/mod_encoding.so
> LoadModule auth_digest_apple_module libexec/apache2/mod_auth_digest_apple.so
> LoadModule encoding_module libexec/apache2/mod_encoding.so
146c146
< #LoadModule xsendfile_module libexec/apache2/mod_xsendfile.so
> LoadModule xsendfile_module libexec/apache2/mod_xsendfile.so
177c177
< ServerAdmin [email protected]
> ServerAdmin [email protected]
186c186
< #ServerName www.example.com:80
> ServerName domain.com:443
677a678,680
> # Server-specific configuration
> # sudo apachectl -D WEBSERVICE_ON -D MACOSXSERVER -k restart
> Include /etc/apache2/mydomain/*.conf
I did "sudo mkdir /etc/apache2/mydomain" and add specific config files for various web pages to host. For example, here's a config file that will host the entire contents of an EyeTV DVR, all password controlled with htdigest ("htdigest ~uname/.htdigest EyeTV uname"). Browsing to https://server.domain.com/eyetv points to /Users/uname/Sites/EyeTV, in which there's an index.php script that can read and display the EyeTV archive at https://server.domain.com/eyetv_archive. If you want Apache username accounts with twiddles as in https://server.domain.com/~uname, specify "UserDir Sites" in the configuration file.
Alias /eyetv /Users/uname/Sites/EyeTV
<Directory "/Users/uname/Sites/EyeTV">
AuthType Digest
AuthName "EyeTV"
AuthUserFile /Users/uname/.htdigest
AuthGroupFile /dev/null
Require user uname
Options Indexes MultiViews
AllowOverride All
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Directory>
Alias /eyetv_archive "/Volumes/Macintosh HD2/Documents/EyeTV Archive"
<Directory "/Volumes/Macintosh HD2/Documents/EyeTV Archive">
AuthType Digest
AuthName "EyeTV"
AuthUserFile /Users/uname/.htdigest
AuthGroupFile /dev/null
Require user uname
Options Indexes MultiViews
AllowOverride All
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Directory>
I think you can turn Web off/on in Server.app to relaunch apached, or simply "sudo apachectl -D WEBSERVICE_ON -D MACOSXSERVER -k restart".
Securely copy to all desired remote clients the file IntermediateCA_SERVER.DOMAIN.COM_1.cer, which you exported from System Keychain above. Add this certificate to your remote keychain and trust it, allowing secure connections between remote clients and your server. Also on remote clients: Firefox>Advanced>Encryption>View Certificates>Authorities>Import...> Import this certificate into your browser. Now there should be a secure connection to https://server.domain.com without any SSL warnings.
One caveat is that there should be a nice way to establish secure SSL to https://domain.com and https://www.domain.com, but the automagically created SSL certificate only knows about server.domain.com. I attempted to follow this advice when I originally created the cert and add these additional domains (under "Subject Alternate Name Extension"), but the cert creation UI failed when I did this, so I just gave up. I hope that by the time these certs expire, someone posts some documentation on how to manage and change Lion Server SSL scripts AFTER the server has been promoted to an Open Directory Master. In the meantime, it would be much appreciated if anyone can post either how to add these additional domain names to the existing cert, or generate and/or sign a cert with a self-created Keychain Access root certificate authority. In my experience, any attempt to mess with the SSL certs automatically generated just breaks Lion Server.
Finally, if you don't want a little Apple logo as your web page icon, create your own 16×16 PNG and copy it to the file /Library/Server/Web/Data/Sites/Default/favicon.ico. And request that all web-crawling robots go away with the file /Library/Server/Web/Data/Sites/Default/robots.txt:
User-agent: *
Disallow: /
Misc
VNC easily works with iOS devices -- use a good passphrase. Edit /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/org.postgresql.postgres.plist and set "listen_addresses=127.0.0.1" to allow PostgreSQL connections over localhost. I've also downloaded snort/base/swatch to build an intrusion detection system, and used Macports's squid+privoxy to build a privacy-enhanced ad-blocking proxy server.Privacy Enhancing Filtering Proxy and SSH Tunnel
Lion Server comes with its own web proxy, but chaining Squid and Privoxy together provides a capable and effective web proxy that can block ads and malicious scripts, and conceal information used to track you around the web. I've posted a simple way to build and use a privacy enhancing web proxy here. While you're at it, configure your OS and browsers to block Adobe Flash cookies and block Flash access to your camera, microphone, and peer networks. Read this WSJ article series to understand how this impacts your privacy. If you configure it to allow use for anyone on your LAN, be sure to open up ports 3128, 8118, and 8123 on your firewall.
If you've set up ssh and/or VPN as above, you can securely tunnel in to your proxy from anywhere. The syntax for ssh tunnels is a little obscure, so I wrote a little ssh tunnel script with a simpler flexible syntax. This script also allows secure tunnels to other services like VNC (port 5900). If you save this to a file ./ssht (and chmod a+x ./ssht), example syntax to establish an ssh tunnel through localhost:8080 (or, e.g., localhost:5901 for secure VNC Screen Sharing connects) looks like:
$ ./ssht 8080:[email protected]:3128
$ ./ssht 8080:alice@:
$ ./ssht 8080:
$ ./ssht 8018::8123
$ ./ssht 5901::5900 [Use the address localhost:5901 for secure VNC connects using OS X's Screen Sharing or Chicken of the VNC (sudo port install cotvnc)]
$ vi ./ssht
#!/bin/sh
# SSH tunnel to squid/whatever proxy: ssht [-p ssh_port] [localhost_port:][user_name@][ip_address][:remotehost][:remote_port]
USERNAME_DEFAULT=username
HOSTNAME_DEFAULT=domain.com
SSHPORT_DEFAULT=22
# SSH port forwarding specs, e.g. 8080:localhost:3128
LOCALHOSTPORT_DEFAULT=8080 # Default is http proxy 8080
REMOTEHOST_DEFAULT=localhost # Default is localhost
REMOTEPORT_DEFAULT=3128 # Default is Squid port
# Parse ssh port and tunnel details if specified
SSHPORT=$SSHPORT_DEFAULT
TUNNEL_DETAILS=$LOCALHOSTPORT_DEFAULT:$USERNAME_DEFAULT@$HOSTNAME_DEFAULT:$REMOT EHOST_DEFAULT:$REMOTEPORT_DEFAULT
while [ "$1" != "" ]
do
case $1
in
-p) shift; # -p option
SSHPORT=$1;
shift;;
*) TUNNEL_DETAILS=$1; # 1st argument option
shift;;
esac
done
# Get local and remote ports, username, and hostname from the command line argument: localhost_port:user_name@ip_address:remote_host:remote_port
shopt -s extglob # needed for +(pattern) syntax; man sh
LOCALHOSTPORT=$LOCALHOSTPORT_DEFAULT
USERNAME=$USERNAME_DEFAULT
HOSTNAME=$HOSTNAME_DEFAULT
REMOTEHOST=$REMOTEHOST_DEFAULT
REMOTEPORT=$REMOTEPORT_DEFAULT
# LOCALHOSTPORT
CDR=${TUNNEL_DETAILS#+([0-9]):} # delete shortest leading +([0-9]):
CAR=${TUNNEL_DETAILS%%$CDR} # cut this string from TUNNEL_DETAILS
CAR=${CAR%:} # delete :
if [ "$CAR" != "" ] # leading or trailing port specified
then
LOCALHOSTPORT=$CAR
fi
TUNNEL_DETAILS=$CDR
# REMOTEPORT
CDR=${TUNNEL_DETAILS%:+([0-9])} # delete shortest trailing :+([0-9])
CAR=${TUNNEL_DETAILS##$CDR} # cut this string from TUNNEL_DETAILS
CAR=${CAR#:} # delete :
if [ "$CAR" != "" ] # leading or trailing port specified
then
REMOTEPORT=$CAR
fi
TUNNEL_DETAILS=$CDR
# REMOTEHOST
CDR=${TUNNEL_DETAILS%:*} # delete shortest trailing :*
CAR=${TUNNEL_DETAILS##$CDR} # cut this string from TUNNEL_DETAILS
CAR=${CAR#:} # delete :
if [ "$CAR" != "" ] # leading or trailing port specified
then
REMOTEHOST=$CAR
fi
TUNNEL_DETAILS=$CDR
# USERNAME
CDR=${TUNNEL_DETAILS#*@} # delete shortest leading +([0-9]):
CAR=${TUNNEL_DETAILS%%$CDR} # cut this string from TUNNEL_DETAILS
CAR=${CAR%@} # delete @
if [ "$CAR" != "" ] # leading or trailing port specified
then
USERNAME=$CAR
fi
TUNNEL_DETAILS=$CDR
# HOSTNAME
HOSTNAME=$TUNNEL_DETAILS
if [ "$HOSTNAME" == "" ] # no hostname given
then
HOSTNAME=$HOSTNAME_DEFAULT
fi
ssh -p $SSHPORT -L $LOCALHOSTPORT:$REMOTEHOST:$REMOTEPORT -l $USERNAME $HOSTNAME -f -C -q -N \
&& echo "SSH tunnel established via $LOCALHOSTPORT:$REMOTEHOST:$REMOTEPORT\n\tto $USERNAME@$HOSTNAME:$SSHPORT." \
|| echo "SSH tunnel FAIL." -
Replicating Safari, Mail records of iMac apps to Macbook apps using TM
My IMac HDD died which is no prob since I have 3yr extended warranty and while it is out of commission (and just for plain convenience anyways) I wish to replicate my entire email archives PLUS and more importantly my autofill, history, cookies et al from the Safari backups on my WD Tb to my MacBook.
I have long used the false security of Back to my Mac screen sharing which appears to have been only a rather lame and weak even if somewhat more secure substitute for full synchronization which does not seem to be possible.
I have this same beef with .mac(MobilMe) because due to the disparity between drive sizes on IMacs and MacBooks it is impractical to do complete synching between them due to the much larger installed software capability of the IMac (notably bloatware like AdobeCS, Iwork, ILife and WinXP on it's own VMware NTFS partition). Thus in spite of using password and username redundancy (for my own sanity) I've had to settle for synching keychains and preferences only even though not Tray and Widget items and trial or seldom used apps etc. for which there is simply not enough room on a 120Gb drive.
Thus I used both Backup.app for special cases backing up selected document backups(avoiding Downloads) to .mac and Time Machine avoiding all/most media, and applications folders (since those software updates plus Miro and EyeTV deletes (and reorganizing/re-filing editing my own pictures music & videos were eating up my Terabyte drive alarmingly with useless duplications of often quite disposable or redundantly relocated hugeitems in document workspaces)
So now my question is how do I replicate my master mail account, which used different (leave on server mail pickup preferences and never synched fully with the archive on my IMac, and my master Safari history (which I never erase since I'm more worried about me not bookmarking it than someone else checking it out) and Safari's autofill and cookie files or folders replaced on this MacBook, to get my life, which was backed up at 5:40AM moments before my HDD choked it's last moved over and replicated to my mundane basic MacBook apps?
My MacBook Safari has the preferences and OS-spam bloated plus my basic sparse general bookmarks synched only, not the important stuff like history, cookies and autofill in spite of my synching keychains which apparently doesn't work since I've read Safari has my autofills strewn around in Address Book or somesuch irrational craziness??
At least does anybody know how to do a simple Netscape type whole User file swap on Safari?What on earth is wrong with this OSX nightmare?
First of all my second MacBook computer (which is a bit newer) has information on it that was unfortunately never properly or completely synchronized despite my reasonable attempts to do so, (not including that complete "first edition" of incremental laptop apps and data lost when the HDD died the first month I attempted to set it up, 3 months after I bought it) due to the several email accounts POP server settings that had to be different in order to assure that I could use my many older pre-existing POP server accounts in READ ONLY MODE in MAIL on the rare occasions I needed a laptop.
Second of all I am "userme" (*example) and "userme's" folder is userme's initials "UM" and that remains the same as does "userme's password" regardless of what ever mac it is I shall ever use or own! It is irrational for me to have to have 2 or 3 or 5 different admin passwords, usernames, shortuser names and login passwords for as many Macs as I should want to own (and moreover, use screen sharing, Time Machine and .mac with! This is why UNIX invented machine names...
Third of all, I am paying for a .mac account which only one Mac which I own and run OSX on can use Time Machine on which unfortunately due to it's stingy disk space and woefully slothful speeds and bandwidth limitations is useless for Time Machine, and of course it appears that I need a separate Terabyte+ Time Machine backup external drive for each computer since Time Machine cannot differentiate (it's duplicatfile+ uselessbloatfile+ redundantly named) non-unique backups on a single sharable external drive let alone access a shared network one should I wish to use my Airport Extreme's slothful local network clogging USB port to do so.
Thus i have to have a Firewire Terabyte WD MyBook that is 60% consumed by/for IMac backups and a spare TrekStore 500Gb USB (that I have yet to setup) for Time Machine backups on for the MacBook. This is solely because the IMac and MacBook are incompatible in file system size, and cannot host anywhere near a similar compliment of apps or documents, because Apple refused to allow me to exchange and pay for the difference in price between the price of a system-compatible (then 250Gb) HDD I was insistent on for my MacBook HDD after the lame 120GB one suppled with it croaked on arrival! Now the the 250Gb one in the Imac is croaked too this may be a silver lining since i shall not accept it back as repaired unless I am allowed to have the defective device replaced with a 320Gb replacement regardless of warranty policy, charge nor price! (the IMac is so frighteningly and mysteriously constructed it is apparently in no way user replace or upgradable)
Thirdly for my old Windows PC "My Documents" archives (which I still have thankfully on my pile of old PC's) and the few newer software receipts and junk I did backup on .mac the Backup app that you have suppled appears to be likewise similarly totally dysfunctional as well as is the Migration Assistant app since the Migration Assistant app will ruin the Time Machine backups on my WD Terabyte drive and the Backup app WILL NOT RESTORE any files stored at .mac backed up from my IMac onto my MacBook because even though it appears to mount them after a prodigious unmonitored period of waiting selecting any (actually had to try 11 times till I discovered only the last one) of the dozen 'fullbackup' documents or the 20 random differently dated and all incomplete "incrementalbackup" documents and selecting all or any part within them whether choosing to "restore to a different location" (since the IMac locations don't exist on the MacBook) or not, the "Restore files" button remains grayed out!!!
Just what business is it of Time Machine or Backup what my username and user folder is called? -
Mail problems on updating to OS 10.4.6
I have just updated my OS to 10.4.6 (prev 10.4.5).
There was a bit of confusion when I opened my mail for the first time after updating the OS as it came up with the set up window then when I cancelled it asked me if I wanted to continue with my old settings or change to the new. I selected to continue with the old settings. Mail has now become a nightmare. Sometimes it will not open and when it does I cannot compose any new mail or open a draft without the dread spinning wheel. Basically I can't send mail now.
Any suggestions?Roger,
Welcome to the Discussions.
How much free, available disk space do you have, or if partitioned, on the boot partition?
Was there a second, self-induced restart, during startup after the update?
Can you, with Mail open, click on Mail in the Menubar, and then choose About Mail? If so, what is reported?
Ernie -
Iphone 4 battery sometimes drains fast -- problem with Mail app?
My iphone 4 battery often drains too quickly, and I wonder if it has something to do with my Mail App.
When my phone is not playing nice, it drains at least 20% overnight while on Standby, and from 100% to 30% in around 6 hours when I use it during the day. I found a fix (http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=11775150) that basically says to wipe your mail account and set it up again.
This fix works, but only temporarily for me. I find that I have to keep resetting my mail every few days to get back to "normal battery" where it barely drains overnight. I only use one email account (gmail) -- could there be something going on there?
Oh, and when my battery drains fast, nothing changes when I turn off WiFi, notifications, push, etc. I usually have my mail refresh hourly.
Has anyone had this experience?iulo wrote:
I believe this must be a major bug on iOS 4.
Sorry, it isn't:
New iOS 4.1 is a battery KiLLER!
iOS 4.1 drains battery
Battery Meter/Life Problems with 4.0.2
4.0.2 guzzling my battery. Your's too?
4.0.1 battery life
Battery runs out very quicky in iOS 4.0.1
Battery nearly nonexistant after 4.0 upgrade
Dead battery after few hours on standby using 4.0 software
3.1.3 battery problem
OS 3.1.3 battery issues
3.1.3 upgrade - shortened battery life?
Battery life cut after 3.1.3 update on iPhone 3G
3.1.3 Firmware is a battery killer - how do I back out this upgrade?
Poor battery life with iPhone 3G running 3.1.2
3.1.2 EXTREME battery drain - what gives?
3.1 Battery nightmare
iPhone 3GS with fw 3.1 – battery life gets even worse
Battery Issues with 3.0.1
BATTERY drain with 3.0
upgrade to 3.0 drains my battery
Battery Drain after Update 2.2.1
Battery Life Radically Decreased after 2.2.1 Firmware Update -
Envy x360 battery short and CMOS/RTC | No dedicated CMOS battery = Kafkaesque HP support nightmare
Relevant Case Number:
3015038426
Caveat:
If I'm wrong about this, I'll eat my hat with a sauce made of ultra-expensive brand-name HP ink.
Question:
Does anyone at HP want to take reponsibility for a series of the company's tech support representatives giving horribly wrong hardware information, wasting customer time and money?
Summary:
1. I have apparently experienced a short in my main battery.
2. In the x360, the real-time clock (RTC) and BIOS settings are apparently powered by the main battery, not a separate CMOS/RTC battery.
3. (1) and (2) explain why my symptoms include a CMOS checksum error and 0-set RTC on boot.
4. Three separate HP representatives have been absolutely insistent that:
(a) I have a CMOS/RTC battery that just isn't disclosed in the service manual.
(b) My symptoms indicate the need for CMOS/RTC battery replacement.
(c) This requires a 2-week+ send-in service, even though I live right next to an authorized support center.
(d) A much less intrusive main battery replacement could not help me, since I have a CMOS issue.
5. I have already had to pay $54 and change for a local shop to confirm that HP support has been, for want of better terms, full of it -- they have been BSing me by phone and live chat, and there is no dedicated CMOS battery.
6. Because of HP's intransigence, I now face the choice of either
(a) paying another $54+ to get myself a new main battery on the open market
or
(b) completely unnecessarily going without my primary work machine for weeks in order to get a new main battery for free from HP. That's assuming that the people at the service center know that replacing the motherboard won't do anything for this machine.
Hilarious and/or Depressing Support Record:
1. Symptoms
This is an HP Envy x360 15t hybrid notebook, model u011dx (G6T85UA).
It had been suspended but suddenly appeared off. It would not power on until AC power was attached.
It showed a CMOS checksum error (502) on boot, and its real-time clock did not hold the time between power cycles.
It had inconsistent problems with failed or severely delayed POST completion.
If AC power was removed during operation, it immediately died. Information about the main battery still showed up in the OS, where it appeared fully charged but never discharged at all.
The light next to the AC plug would often blink blue depending on the power state.
The machine could POST normally (except for the CMOS and RTC failures) with the main battery physically detached.
2. Call ("Amit")
I don't have a transcript of my initial call with HP ("Amit"), but here is the gist of it. My 502 CMOS checksum error implicates the CMOS battery. My steps are to attempt a BIOS upgrade. Failing that, the computer would need to be sent in for service so that the CMOS battery could be replaced. Amit described it to me as the shape of a small tablet.
3. False Hope
When I had initially called, the case was off of the PC and both sides of the motherboard were accessible so that I could try to see if there were any visually obvious problems with the CMOS/RTC battery. Naturally, I couldn't find it, and I had hoped the call would help me. In any case, Amit would need to call back in 60-90 minutes after I had the chance to take care of other things and re-connect the machine's components so that I could boot it and do a BIOS upgrade.
Just before he called back, the machine appeared for one or two power cycles to have overcome its problem. It even seemed like it was drawing main battery power for a few moments during a session with AC power detached. Amit closed the case for me pending the problems recurring.
I concluded that one of the following two things must have happened. Either:
(a) All of the problems were related to the main battery, and the main battery connector had just gotten jarred loose so that one or two pins were not contacting properly. By disconnecting and reconnecting the main battery in my search for the RTC/CMOS battery, I had solved the issue by reseating it properly.
or
(b) All of the problems were related to the CMOS battery. But by having it on AC power for testing for a little while, I had charged the CMOS battery enough to enable POST and for it to mediate the transition from AC to battery power (I know this probably isn't how it should work, but hey).
I also updated the BIOS to the newest version so that I could ensure I was following the pre-shipment troubleshooting step set out by Amit.
Fairly quickly after the second call and the closing of the case, all of the symptoms recurred. I carefully re-checked and re-seated the main battery to rule out (a) above. I then decided to run the computer on AC power for several hours to test theory (b) above. When this failed, I went back to the HP site and opted for chat support.
4. First Chat (KARISHMA BARPANDA)
Gist:
I clearly have a problem with my invisible CMOS battery. Also, this CMOS battery is absent from the manual because it isn't supposed to be user-removable, not because it doesn't exist. Note especially the exchange at 2:02.
Transcript:
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
1:38 PM Support session established with KARISHMA BARPANDA.
1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Welcome to HP Customer Support & Services for Notebook support. My name is Karishma and I will be your technical support specialist today.
1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Hi
1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: How are you doing today ?
1:38 PM Adam Colligan: Hello; this is related to case 3015038426
1:38 PM Adam Colligan: I'm good; just a little confused
1:39 PM Adam Colligan: PC symptoms implicated RTC battery: CMOS checksum error on boot. But also instant death when AC power removed. Temporarily resolved after re-seating main battery cable, so chalked up to that. Now not so sure: maybe I had just partly charged RTC battery during testing. Now trying long run on AC to rule this out.Query: x360 service manual (unlike other Envy manuals) makes no mention of RTC/CMOS battery. Didn't see one exposed on board. Can you verify presence and location of CMOS batt?
1:40 PM Adam Colligan: Just to clarify: I'm not asking you to walk me through changing a CMOS battery or anything like that -- I know you want notebooks sent in for service if they need that officially. But I just want to make sure that I actually know where the thing is on this model
1:42 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sorry, I can't understand you.
1:43 PM Adam Colligan: Okay, I'll back up. Have you heard of something called a CMOS battery or an RTC battery?
1:43 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Yes.
1:44 PM Adam Colligan: Would you be able to find out where it is located on my Envy x360 15t notebook (u011dx)?
1:45 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Alright !
1:46 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: In this situation, we need to take the notebook in free servics repair.
1:46 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, provide me the complete sdhipping address along with the zip code.
1:46 PM Adam Colligan: It is not confirmed yet that the CMOS battery is actually the problem
1:47 PM Adam Colligan: I don't want to set up a service yet. I just want to know *where* the battery is attached to the board.
1:47 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: We need to replace the CMOS battery,
1:47 PM Adam Colligan: How do you know that we need to replace the CMOS battery?
1:48 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Because tHe CMOS battery is not removable.
1:48 PM Adam Colligan: Well, in that case we're probably talking about replacing the whole motherboard. Do you mean *not removable* or just "not user removable" ?
1:48 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: We will take the notebook in service reapir and our HP certified technician will do the complete hardware diagnostic of your notebook.
1:49 PM Adam Colligan: I don't want to do anything yet except *LOOK* at the board and see if there is anything obviously wrong with the CMOS battery connection
1:49 PM Adam Colligan: I just want to know *where* it is; I don't need to actually do anything to it
1:50 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me explain.
1:51 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me check.
1:52 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, allow me few moments.
1:52 PM Adam Colligan: Thank you
1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Thank you for staying connected. I appreciate your time and patience.
1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sending you a link, please go through page number 33 and 34.
1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA has sent a link: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c04513489
1:57 PM Adam Colligan: That's okay; I understand that it may take time
1:57 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.
1:58 PM Adam Colligan: 33 and 34 refer to the main battery, not the CMOS battery
1:58 PM Adam Colligan: I know that the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. However, I want to visually inspect it.
1:59 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: It is not listed there.
1:59 PM Adam Colligan: Exactly. Compare that to this manual for the HP Envy 17, page 41
1:59 PM Adam Colligan: http://www.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02160120.pdf
2:00 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: If you are facing any issues with the battery then, we need to take the notebook in service reapir and will fix the issue.
2:01 PM Adam Colligan: Sigh.
2:02 PM Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.
2:02 PM Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks
2:03 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part.
2:04 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it.
2:04 PM Adam Colligan: So where on the motherboard is it?
2:04 PM Adam Colligan: It's on the motherboard but it's invisible?
2:04 PM Adam Colligan: Maybe it's under a piece of foam by the HDD indicator light? There aren't many places for it to hide
2:05 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would suggest you to sent the notebook in service repair, and if there will be any hardware issues, then HP technician will take care of it.
2:06 PM Adam Colligan: Please answer this question honestly for me. Is the location of the CMOS battery actually available to you? It's okay for you to say, "I don't know where it is, and I don't know how to find out where it is". But it seems like you are avoiding saying that.
2:10 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me know are you facing any issues with the HP notebook right now ?
2:11 PM Adam Colligan: Yes. Why won't you answer that question?
2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.
2:24 PM Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?
2:24 PM Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?
2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.
2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.
2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.
2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: So, the CMOS battery can be replaced only in our service center.
2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Do you want to send your notebook for a free service to replace the CMOS battery ?
2:26 PM Adam Colligan: I think we've established that. I am not asking you about how to replace it. I'm asking if you can find out where it is.
2:26 PM Adam Colligan: It's perfectly alright if the answer is "I don't know", but I do expect that amount of honesty
2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: No, it is not listed in the manual.
2:27 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I can understand your concern.
2:27 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: As, it is not listed in the manual, let me know how can I assist you.
2:28 PM Adam Colligan: So then the next question is: can I contact a technical support professional who can tell me where it is attached so that I can visually inspect it before committing to a service by mail?
2:30 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: This is the only technical support and you can contact our voice technical support. However, they will tell you the same thing, which I have told you.
1:38 PM Support session established with KARISHMA BARPANDA.1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Welcome to HP Customer Support & Services for Notebook support. My name is Karishma and I will be your technical support specialist today.1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Hi1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: How are you doing today ?1:38 PM Adam Colligan: Hello; this is related to case 30150384261:38 PM Adam Colligan: I'm good; just a little confused1:39 PM Adam Colligan: PC symptoms implicated RTC battery: CMOS checksum error on boot. But also instant death when AC power removed. Temporarily resolved after re-seating main battery cable, so chalked up to that. Now not so sure: maybe I had just partly charged RTC battery during testing. Now trying long run on AC to rule this out.Query: x360 service manual (unlike other Envy manuals) makes no mention of RTC/CMOS battery. Didn't see one exposed on board. Can you verify presence and location of CMOS batt?1:40 PM Adam Colligan: Just to clarify: I'm not asking you to walk me through changing a CMOS battery or anything like that -- I know you want notebooks sent in for service if they need that officially. But I just want to make sure that I actually know where the thing is on this model1:42 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sorry, I can't understand you.1:43 PM Adam Colligan: Okay, I'll back up. Have you heard of something called a CMOS battery or an RTC battery?1:43 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Yes.1:44 PM Adam Colligan: Would you be able to find out where it is located on my Envy x360 15t notebook (u011dx)?1:45 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Alright !1:46 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: In this situation, we need to take the notebook in free servics repair. 1:46 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, provide me the complete sdhipping address along with the zip code. 1:46 PM Adam Colligan: It is not confirmed yet that the CMOS battery is actually the problem1:47 PM Adam Colligan: I don't want to set up a service yet. I just want to know *where* the battery is attached to the board.1:47 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: We need to replace the CMOS battery, 1:47 PM Adam Colligan: How do you know that we need to replace the CMOS battery?1:48 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Because tHe CMOS battery is not removable. 1:48 PM Adam Colligan: Well, in that case we're probably talking about replacing the whole motherboard. Do you mean *not removable* or just "not user removable" ?1:48 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: We will take the notebook in service reapir and our HP certified technician will do the complete hardware diagnostic of your notebook. 1:49 PM Adam Colligan: I don't want to do anything yet except *LOOK* at the board and see if there is anything obviously wrong with the CMOS battery connection1:49 PM Adam Colligan: I just want to know *where* it is; I don't need to actually do anything to it1:50 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me explain. 1:51 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me check. 1:52 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, allow me few moments. 1:52 PM Adam Colligan: Thank you1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Thank you for staying connected. I appreciate your time and patience.1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sending you a link, please go through page number 33 and 34.1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA has sent a link: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c045134891:57 PM Adam Colligan: That's okay; I understand that it may take time1:57 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. 1:58 PM Adam Colligan: 33 and 34 refer to the main battery, not the CMOS battery1:58 PM Adam Colligan: I know that the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. However, I want to visually inspect it. 1:59 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: It is not listed there. 1:59 PM Adam Colligan: Exactly. Compare that to this manual for the HP Envy 17, page 411:59 PM Adam Colligan: http://www.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02160120.pdf2:00 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: If you are facing any issues with the battery then, we need to take the notebook in service reapir and will fix the issue. 2:01 PM Adam Colligan: Sigh.2:02 PM Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it. 2:04 PM Adam Colligan: So where on the motherboard is it?2:04 PM Adam Colligan: It's on the motherboard but it's invisible?2:04 PM Adam Colligan: Maybe it's under a piece of foam by the HDD indicator light? There aren't many places for it to hide2:05 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would suggest you to sent the notebook in service repair, and if there will be any hardware issues, then HP technician will take care of it. 2:06 PM Adam Colligan: Please answer this question honestly for me. Is the location of the CMOS battery actually available to you? It's okay for you to say, "I don't know where it is, and I don't know how to find out where it is". But it seems like you are avoiding saying that.2:10 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me know are you facing any issues with the HP notebook right now ?2:11 PM Adam Colligan: Yes. Why won't you answer that question?2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: So, the CMOS battery can be replaced only in our service center.2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Do you want to send your notebook for a free service to replace the CMOS battery ?2:26 PM Adam Colligan: I think we've established that. I am not asking you about how to replace it. I'm asking if you can find out where it is.2:26 PM Adam Colligan: It's perfectly alright if the answer is "I don't know", but I do expect that amount of honesty2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: No, it is not listed in the manual.2:27 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I can understand your concern.2:27 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: As, it is not listed in the manual, let me know how can I assist you.2:28 PM Adam Colligan: So then the next question is: can I contact a technical support professional who can tell me where it is attached so that I can visually inspect it before committing to a service by mail?2:30 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: This is the only technical support and you can contact our voice technical support. However, they will tell you the same thing, which I have told you.
5. I pay money to have the CMOS battery checked
Clearly, I wasn't inspired by that chat. Maybe the rep was just wrong about the hardware. More likely, it was just my own ignorance that kept me from finding the CMOS battery, and so I would benefit from a real technician checking it, maybe replacing it or telling me I really did need to send it to HP for service, and also looking at the main battery circuit.
A couple of hours and $54.13 in diagnostic fees later, I had my answer from the technicians. My main battery had a short in it and needed to be replaced. There is no dedicated CMOS / RTC battery on this motherboard. The clock and BIOS use main battery power, and it makes perfect sense that the main battery fault would therefore include symptoms normally associated with a simultaneous failure of a main battery and a dedicated CMOS battery in another computer. This PC is not unique in lacking a dedicated CMOS battery. I could buy a new main battery for around $55.
Obviously, I was now thoroughly upset at HP Support. With this clearly being a main battery issue and the main battery being easy for me to replace and covered by warranty, HP could just send me a new main battery. I wouldn't even care if they wanted to tell me that swapping it myself would void the rest of the warranty period -- better than going without my PC for weeks on end. Failing that, I would probably rather even pay the money for a new battery from a retailer rather than go through the stupidity of sending this PC in just to have the battery swapped out. But now I had already paid the equivalent of that new battery cost just to get the correct information about my hardware, solely because official HP Support had given me false information -- twice!
6. Second chat ("Justine")
Gist:
So I re-connected with technical support in the hope that something could be done to make the situation right. I briefly summarized the problem and gave the case number in the webform submission not shown. Make sure you're sitting down for this transcript and have either whisky or popcorn depending on whether you work for HP or not.
Note in particular at 5:28, where my soul tries to escape my body, and 6:00, where Justine accidentally states the whole issue without actually understanding.
Transcript:
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
5:10 PM Support session established with Justine.
5:10 PM Adam Colligan: Hi Justine
5:11 PM Justine: Thank you for contacting the HP Customer Support & Services. My name is Justine and I will be your chat support specialist today. Please give me a few minutes while I review your issue description details. NOTE: For security reasons, PLEASE DO NOT send credit card information via chat. Also, If you are using a mobile device (iPad, iPod, iPhone, etc....) and experience difficulties viewing the chat window, please initiate a new chat from a Windows or Mac computer or use a different browser for better compatibility.For DISCONNECTED or failed to reconnect, we keep records for all interactions feel free to initiate another chat.
5:11 PM Justine: May I have the phone number and e-mail address associated with your HP product?
5:11 PM Adam Colligan: [redacted]
5:12 PM Justine: In order for me to assist you better, can you please provide the Product and Serial number of the system that is having an issue.
5:13 PM Adam Colligan: Are the contents of the form I filled out not sent? The SN is [redacted] . This is a model G6T85UA
5:15 PM Justine: Thank you for verifying me those information, Adam. I have read your issue description and it seems like you need help in processing a replacement for your computer's battery, is that correct?
5:15 PM Adam Colligan: Yes.
5:16 PM Justine: I apologize for the inconvenience. I will do my best to help you resolve this issue.
5:19 PM Justine: Alright, regarding the incorrect information that our tech had provided you, what is that information again, Adam.
5:20 PM Adam Colligan: My own hunch was confirmed by an independent service center that I had to pay to diagnose this problem: this machine has no dedicated RTC/CMOS battery.
5:20 PM Justine: -
5:22 PM Justine: So the issue is that you went to a local tech and they are charging you for your battery replacement correct?
5:22 PM Adam Colligan: So I wasted both a day of work and over $50 because two technical support representatives told me in no uncertain terms that I was looking at symptoms of a CMOS battery fault. And I *now* face also having to double that money on a new battery unless you guys can make it right.
5:23 PM Adam Colligan: I paid for the diagnosis because they had to go in and determine that HP tech support was, for lack of a better phrase, full of it
5:23 PM Adam Colligan: I even have a hilarious piece of transcript: 2:02 PM Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it.
5:25 PM Adam Colligan: I had even checked the x360 service manuals and compared them to other Envy models, since the CMOS / RTC battery is specified for the other ones. Hence this (apparently completely false) gem: KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.
5:25 PM Adam Colligan: Apparently the truth is that it's not in the manual because *it doesn't exist*
5:27 PM Justine: I apologize about that, Adam. But to explain this properly, yes the CMOS battery is not a replaceable part. We do not ship CMOS batteries. But if you want, you can consult your local tech about it.
5:28 PM Justine: May I ask why do you want the CMOS battery to be replaced, Adam?
5:28 PM Adam Colligan: Oh my god.
5:28 PM Adam Colligan: You're going to have to just give me a moment here.
5:29 PM Justine: Okay Adam. Please take your time.
5:31 PM Adam Colligan: Before I explain again, let me just ask a question or two. Let's say that, hypothetically, HP Support thought that I needed to replace my CMOS/RTC battery. So I ship it off. Imagine that it arrives at the service center and the techs there discover that there is nothing wrong with the CMOS battery. Instead, they find that the main battery has a short in it and needs to be replaced. Would I have to pay for the replacement of the main battery?
5:32 PM Justine: Alright, first the repair process is that whatever that is we need to replace, we will. also, fortunately, your warranty covers the repair for this computer. We could send it for repair for you.
5:33 PM Justine: Whether the CMOS battery or the main battery, we will fix this computer like brand new for you.
5:34 PM Adam Colligan: And you're saying there is no charge for this?
5:35 PM Justine: Yes Adam.
5:36 PM Justine: It will be for free.
5:36 PM Justine: May I ask for your shipping address?
5:37 PM Adam Colligan: Wait; see, I don't want to do that yet. How long would the whole shipping and repair process take?
5:37 PM Adam Colligan: I've already been told that I have to go through the whole shipping nightmare even though I live right near an authorized service center
5:38 PM Justine: Okay, we will ship you a box with a return label within 2-3 business days, then the repair process would be 7-9 business days maximum. This is for us to make sure that everything will be checked and diagnosed so that when it comes back to you, it would be like brand new.
5:39 PM Justine: We could still send you the box if you want, the box would be active within 30 days, so you could decide when you want it to be dispatched.
5:40 PM Adam Colligan: See, and that's the problem: I might rather just buy a new battery for $53 rather than be without my main work machine for 2 weeks+.
5:40 PM Adam Colligan: And so here's what happened:
5:41 PM Justine: Well, if we send it for repair we can determine if it is really a CMOS issue or the main battery.
5:41 PM Justine: But it would depend on your decision, Adam.
5:44 PM Justine: Are you still there? I want to get your issue taken cared of today. Please respond if you are available to chat.
5:44 PM Adam Colligan: In order to make that choice, I needed to know whether this could really be a CMOS battery issue. If it were, then I would have no choice but to send it in, because that would mean replacing the motherboard (or at a minimum re-soldering to it...so probably replacing it). I would probably also have to spend the time before and after the shipment taking the thing apart myself and putting it back together again because I have my own RAM and my own SSD in there. And so I discussed my symptoms (which included a CMOS checksum error) with two technical support representatives. The initial one was going to take me through a BIOS upgrade attempt and informed me that if it did not resolve, it would need to be sent in for a CMOS battery replacement. I think I had already let him know that I had looked for it just to check if there was anything obviously wrong and couldn't find it, and I had wondered if there really was one.
5:46 PM Justine: Actually if it already gave a CMOS error, it is already that.
5:46 PM Adam Colligan: In the end I did upgrade the BIOS, but when it appeared to work afterward, it was a coincidence. The ticket was closed but I discovered quickly that the problem was still there. It appeared that maybe I had partially charged the CMOS battery and so just needed to try running the machine for several hours to see if it would recharge. When that failed, I contacted HP again, which is where those snippets of transcript come from
5:47 PM Connecting...
5:47 PM Connected. A support representative will be with you shortly.
5:47 PM Support session established with Justine.
5:47 PM Adam Colligan: Once again, I was assured that this really was or could be a CMOS battery issue. I specifically raised my concern that there might not even be a CMOS battery, which is why I tried to focus the conversation on getting the rep to tell me where it is. She very directly and repeatedly told me that it was there -- which meant that I had no choice between a long service and replacing the battery myself.
5:49 PM Justine: The issue is that the CMOS could have already failed so technically, even though it is physically there, the computer is not detecting it anymore. For this, since there is already an error with the CMOS, it should be replaced.
5:50 PM Adam Colligan: But between the fact that the reps had not sounded competent and the possibility that it might be worth it to replace the CMOS battery myself and void the warranty, I was still suspicious. And that's why I found myself spending $54.13 for a third party service provider to tell me what HP should have known all along. This machine does not have a separate CMOS battery. When the main battery fails -- as mine has -- it will cause all the symptoms of a main battery failure *plus* the symptoms of a CMOS battery failure, since *the main battery* powers this board's real-time clock and RAM environment memory
5:51 PM Justine: I could wait for your decision if you want to send it in for repair, Adam. I will still send you a box for the repair, that would be available for use within a month. It is still up for you to decide, Adam.
5:51 PM Adam Colligan: And now you're saying the same thing: that my CMOS checksum error (and also my clock resetting) means there is a problem with the CMOS / RTC battery.
5:51 PM Adam Colligan: Am I correct that that is what you are saying?
5:52 PM Justine: I highly suggest sending it for repair, really. In this case we could provide a proper explanation in your issue.
5:52 PM Adam Colligan: Are you or are you not telling me that I have a CMOS / RTC battery and that it might need to be replaced?
5:53 PM Justine: Every motherboard has a CMOS battery, yours have already failed so it needs to be replaced.
5:54 PM Adam Colligan: See, I think -- and the service center that just looked at it thinks -- that that statement is flat-out untrue.
5:54 PM Justine: You could replace it by yourself like what you want, but first, we do not ship CMOS batteries, and replacing it by yourself will jsut tamper the warranty.
5:55 PM Adam Colligan: And so the important question is: will HP give me a free main battery, which I can install myself without needing to send the computer off, if it turns out that you just became rep #3 to give me false information?
5:56 PM Justine: Actually, we cannot determine that without really having it physically here for further details and with sufficient tests. Our technicians will be testing it not just inside, but physically.
5:57 PM Adam Colligan: You don't need my computer in front of you in order to know whether or not this model *has* a CMOS battery. You are essentially swearing up and down that it has one. If you're wrong, then you've not only cost me the $54 I already spent but will also unnecessarily cost me two weeks+ without my computer
5:57 PM Justine: I apologize but we can only replace the battery if we have the computer in question, and we cannot do that without the error in the main battery itself.
5:57 PM Justine: Every computer has a CMOS battery, what I mean is that we have to perform tests on your computer physically to determine the real issue.
5:57 PM Justine: I apologize about that.
5:57 PM Adam Colligan: So I want to know: if it turns out that this model has no CMOS battery, will HP comp me a main battery in return for the time and money that it has already made me waste?
5:59 PM Justine: Actually, we can send you a box with a return label, so that you can decide. At this point we will just wait for your decision.
5:59 PM Justine: We will only replace or provide on the part that neede to be replaced.
6:00 PM Justine: The CMOS and the main battery has different roles, so we couldn't send you a main battery when it is a CMOS issue.
6:00 PM Justine: Is that okay?
6:00 PM Justine: May I ask for your shipping address please?
6:01 PM Adam Colligan: That. That last thing you said. That is the heart of the whole problem! If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then you would *know* you could just send me a main battery?
6:01 PM Adam Colligan: As long as it's not costing me anything, sure, send me a stupid box. My address is [redacted]
6:02 PM Justine: If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, the main battery doesn't have anything to do with it. If it does not exist, we can send it for repair, since we do not send CMOS batteries. That is the only thing that we can do.
6:02 PM Justine: Alright, is there anything else I could help you with?
6:03 PM Adam Colligan: Oh lord. If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then the main battery is the whole point, because it's the main battery that's supplying the power to the components that normally draw from the CMOS battery on most other systems.
6:03 PM Adam Colligan: Nope, there's nothing else. You've provided another great transcript for the file.
5:10 PM Support session established with Justine.5:10 PM Adam Colligan: Hi Justine5:11 PM Justine: Thank you for contacting the HP Customer Support & Services. My name is Justine and I will be your chat support specialist today. Please give me a few minutes while I review your issue description details. NOTE: For security reasons, PLEASE DO NOT send credit card information via chat. Also, If you are using a mobile device (iPad, iPod, iPhone, etc....) and experience difficulties viewing the chat window, please initiate a new chat from a Windows or Mac computer or use a different browser for better compatibility.For DISCONNECTED or failed to reconnect, we keep records for all interactions feel free to initiate another chat.5:11 PM Justine: May I have the phone number and e-mail address associated with your HP product?5:11 PM Adam Colligan: [redacted]5:12 PM Justine: In order for me to assist you better, can you please provide the Product and Serial number of the system that is having an issue.5:13 PM Adam Colligan: Are the contents of the form I filled out not sent? The SN is [redacted] . This is a model G6T85UA5:15 PM Justine: Thank you for verifying me those information, Adam. I have read your issue description and it seems like you need help in processing a replacement for your computer's battery, is that correct?5:15 PM Adam Colligan: Yes.5:16 PM Justine: I apologize for the inconvenience. I will do my best to help you resolve this issue.5:19 PM Justine: Alright, regarding the incorrect information that our tech had provided you, what is that information again, Adam.5:20 PM Adam Colligan: My own hunch was confirmed by an independent service center that I had to pay to diagnose this problem: this machine has no dedicated RTC/CMOS battery. 5:20 PM Justine: -5:22 PM Justine: So the issue is that you went to a local tech and they are charging you for your battery replacement correct?5:22 PM Adam Colligan: So I wasted both a day of work and over $50 because two technical support representatives told me in no uncertain terms that I was looking at symptoms of a CMOS battery fault. And I *now* face also having to double that money on a new battery unless you guys can make it right.5:23 PM Adam Colligan: I paid for the diagnosis because they had to go in and determine that HP tech support was, for lack of a better phrase, full of it5:23 PM Adam Colligan: I even have a hilarious piece of transcript: 2:02 PM Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it. 5:25 PM Adam Colligan: I had even checked the x360 service manuals and compared them to other Envy models, since the CMOS / RTC battery is specified for the other ones. Hence this (apparently completely false) gem: KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.5:25 PM Adam Colligan: Apparently the truth is that it's not in the manual because *it doesn't exist*5:27 PM Justine: I apologize about that, Adam. But to explain this properly, yes the CMOS battery is not a replaceable part. We do not ship CMOS batteries. But if you want, you can consult your local tech about it.5:28 PM Justine: May I ask why do you want the CMOS battery to be replaced, Adam?5:28 PM Adam Colligan: Oh my god.5:28 PM Adam Colligan: You're going to have to just give me a moment here.5:29 PM Justine: Okay Adam. Please take your time.5:31 PM Adam Colligan: Before I explain again, let me just ask a question or two. Let's say that, hypothetically, HP Support thought that I needed to replace my CMOS/RTC battery. So I ship it off. Imagine that it arrives at the service center and the techs there discover that there is nothing wrong with the CMOS battery. Instead, they find that the main battery has a short in it and needs to be replaced. Would I have to pay for the replacement of the main battery?5:32 PM Justine: Alright, first the repair process is that whatever that is we need to replace, we will. also, fortunately, your warranty covers the repair for this computer. We could send it for repair for you.5:33 PM Justine: Whether the CMOS battery or the main battery, we will fix this computer like brand new for you.5:34 PM Adam Colligan: And you're saying there is no charge for this?5:35 PM Justine: Yes Adam. 5:36 PM Justine: It will be for free.5:36 PM Justine: May I ask for your shipping address?5:37 PM Adam Colligan: Wait; see, I don't want to do that yet. How long would the whole shipping and repair process take?5:37 PM Adam Colligan: I've already been told that I have to go through the whole shipping nightmare even though I live right near an authorized service center5:38 PM Justine: Okay, we will ship you a box with a return label within 2-3 business days, then the repair process would be 7-9 business days maximum. This is for us to make sure that everything will be checked and diagnosed so that when it comes back to you, it would be like brand new.5:39 PM Justine: We could still send you the box if you want, the box would be active within 30 days, so you could decide when you want it to be dispatched.5:40 PM Adam Colligan: See, and that's the problem: I might rather just buy a new battery for $53 rather than be without my main work machine for 2 weeks+. 5:40 PM Adam Colligan: And so here's what happened:5:41 PM Justine: Well, if we send it for repair we can determine if it is really a CMOS issue or the main battery.5:41 PM Justine: But it would depend on your decision, Adam.5:44 PM Justine: Are you still there? I want to get your issue taken cared of today. Please respond if you are available to chat.5:44 PM Adam Colligan: In order to make that choice, I needed to know whether this could really be a CMOS battery issue. If it were, then I would have no choice but to send it in, because that would mean replacing the motherboard (or at a minimum re-soldering to it...so probably replacing it). I would probably also have to spend the time before and after the shipment taking the thing apart myself and putting it back together again because I have my own RAM and my own SSD in there. And so I discussed my symptoms (which included a CMOS checksum error) with two technical support representatives. The initial one was going to take me through a BIOS upgrade attempt and informed me that if it did not resolve, it would need to be sent in for a CMOS battery replacement. I think I had already let him know that I had looked for it just to check if there was anything obviously wrong and couldn't find it, and I had wondered if there really was one.5:46 PM Justine: Actually if it already gave a CMOS error, it is already that.5:46 PM Adam Colligan: In the end I did upgrade the BIOS, but when it appeared to work afterward, it was a coincidence. The ticket was closed but I discovered quickly that the problem was still there. It appeared that maybe I had partially charged the CMOS battery and so just needed to try running the machine for several hours to see if it would recharge. When that failed, I contacted HP again, which is where those snippets of transcript come from5:47 PM Connecting...5:47 PM Connected. A support representative will be with you shortly.5:47 PM Support session established with Justine.5:47 PM Adam Colligan: Once again, I was assured that this really was or could be a CMOS battery issue. I specifically raised my concern that there might not even be a CMOS battery, which is why I tried to focus the conversation on getting the rep to tell me where it is. She very directly and repeatedly told me that it was there -- which meant that I had no choice between a long service and replacing the battery myself.5:49 PM Justine: The issue is that the CMOS could have already failed so technically, even though it is physically there, the computer is not detecting it anymore. For this, since there is already an error with the CMOS, it should be replaced.5:50 PM Adam Colligan: But between the fact that the reps had not sounded competent and the possibility that it might be worth it to replace the CMOS battery myself and void the warranty, I was still suspicious. And that's why I found myself spending $54.13 for a third party service provider to tell me what HP should have known all along. This machine does not have a separate CMOS battery. When the main battery fails -- as mine has -- it will cause all the symptoms of a main battery failure *plus* the symptoms of a CMOS battery failure, since *the main battery* powers this board's real-time clock and RAM environment memory5:51 PM Justine: I could wait for your decision if you want to send it in for repair, Adam. I will still send you a box for the repair, that would be available for use within a month. It is still up for you to decide, Adam.5:51 PM Adam Colligan: And now you're saying the same thing: that my CMOS checksum error (and also my clock resetting) means there is a problem with the CMOS / RTC battery.5:51 PM Adam Colligan: Am I correct that that is what you are saying?5:52 PM Justine: I highly suggest sending it for repair, really. In this case we could provide a proper explanation in your issue.5:52 PM Adam Colligan: Are you or are you not telling me that I have a CMOS / RTC battery and that it might need to be replaced?5:53 PM Justine: Every motherboard has a CMOS battery, yours have already failed so it needs to be replaced.5:54 PM Adam Colligan: See, I think -- and the service center that just looked at it thinks -- that that statement is flat-out untrue. 5:54 PM Justine: You could replace it by yourself like what you want, but first, we do not ship CMOS batteries, and replacing it by yourself will jsut tamper the warranty.5:55 PM Adam Colligan: And so the important question is: will HP give me a free main battery, which I can install myself without needing to send the computer off, if it turns out that you just became rep #3 to give me false information?5:56 PM Justine: Actually, we cannot determine that without really having it physically here for further details and with sufficient tests. Our technicians will be testing it not just inside, but physically. 5:57 PM Adam Colligan: You don't need my computer in front of you in order to know whether or not this model *has* a CMOS battery. You are essentially swearing up and down that it has one. If you're wrong, then you've not only cost me the $54 I already spent but will also unnecessarily cost me two weeks+ without my computer5:57 PM Justine: I apologize but we can only replace the battery if we have the computer in question, and we cannot do that without the error in the main battery itself.5:57 PM Justine: Every computer has a CMOS battery, what I mean is that we have to perform tests on your computer physically to determine the real issue.5:57 PM Justine: I apologize about that.5:57 PM Adam Colligan: So I want to know: if it turns out that this model has no CMOS battery, will HP comp me a main battery in return for the time and money that it has already made me waste? 5:59 PM Justine: Actually, we can send you a box with a return label, so that you can decide. At this point we will just wait for your decision.5:59 PM Justine: We will only replace or provide on the part that neede to be replaced.6:00 PM Justine: The CMOS and the main battery has different roles, so we couldn't send you a main battery when it is a CMOS issue.6:00 PM Justine: Is that okay?6:00 PM Justine: May I ask for your shipping address please?6:01 PM Adam Colligan: That. That last thing you said. That is the heart of the whole problem! If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then you would *know* you could just send me a main battery? 6:01 PM Adam Colligan: As long as it's not costing me anything, sure, send me a stupid box. My address is [redacted]6:02 PM Justine: If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, the main battery doesn't have anything to do with it. If it does not exist, we can send it for repair, since we do not send CMOS batteries. That is the only thing that we can do.6:02 PM Justine: Alright, is there anything else I could help you with?6:03 PM Adam Colligan: Oh lord. If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then the main battery is the whole point, because it's the main battery that's supplying the power to the components that normally draw from the CMOS battery on most other systems.6:03 PM Adam Colligan: Nope, there's nothing else. You've provided another great transcript for the file.
7. In desperation, I try in vain to attract @HPSupport's attention on Twitter
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
@adamcolligan
6:20 PM - 13 Apr 2015
(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info
@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your twitter feed. If I'm wrong...
@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?
@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
@adamcolligan6:20 PM - 13 Apr 2015(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your twitter feed. If I'm wrong...@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
No response; not sure if I expected one or not.Update time! I know you've been dying to know how this has been turning out.
I provided all the requested information in response to the private message from HP staff. Nothing ever came of it; as far as I can tell, no real human being ever attempted to contact me after being "forwarded" the details of the case.
Three days after I tweeted at them, @HPSupport sent me a series of public replies. In essence, they told me to abandon useless post-sales technical support and get information from HP Sales.
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan Apr 13
@HPSupport No but seriously. Does the HP Envy x360 have a dedicated RTC / CMOS battery or not?
HP Support @HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan Hello Adam, Eddie here. Saw your tweet. Our Product Information team will be able to assist with your inquiry. Dial:.. ^HPCare
HP Support @HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan 1800-752-0900. Follow prompts for “product information”. If you prefer email click this link http://ow.ly/HYnHT .. ^HPCare
HP Support @HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan Once there be sure to choose "Contact an HP sales specialist" as your subject. Let me know if you require further... ^HPCare
HP Support @HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan information and/or assistance. Have an awesome day! Thanks! ^HPCare
Now, being the exhaustive give-it-a-try kind of guy that I am, I tried *both* the phone and the email path to support. I may have been told once on the phone to try the email, but it's hard to even remember at the moment. I'll just paste the email outcome here.
Me (into the webform):
HP reps have directed me to contact sales support after others in the company were unable to help with a technical product question. I need to know whether the HP Envy x360 model G6T85UA (should be board 780958-501 and main battery 760944-421) has a dedicated CMOS/RTC battery. If it does, I need to know *where* it is connected to the board. This is a fairly urgent issue for me implicating a disconnect or swap-out of the main battery while AC power is not being supplied.
HP:
Dear Adam,
Thank you for contacting the hp.com Sales Center.
I understand the you are still seeking resolution for your technical concern and I’m sorry to hear that this remains unresolved.
I'm very sorry, but our email sales team does not handle technical or product support concerns. We can only handles sales inquiries pertaining to orders placed in our store.
HP Technical Support will be able to provide you with service and support for hardware, software, and parts replacement of HP products that are still covered under warranty.
I strongly suggest that you contact the HP Technical Support Team since your matter requires technical expertise. HP Technical Support can best assist you and can be reached 24 hours a day at: http://www.hp.com/contacthp
Below is step by step guide how to obtain the webform/online form:
1. Please copy and paste this link http://www.hp.com/contacthp into a new browser.
2. Please enter your model number in the "Enter my model number" search field provided then hit the "Find my product" button to generate the result.
3. Select the correct product from the search results.
4. On the next page wait for a few seconds to load the webform.
5. Scroll down to find the webform.
5. Complete the webform then hit the "Submit" button.
6. After you fill out the online form, you will receive a Technical Support case number. You will also be able to engage with a Tech Support product specialist either by chat or they will give you a call at your earliest convenience.
By the way, I have seen a link which might help you with this concern. Here's the link:
http://partsurfer.hp.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=G6T85UA
The link shows the the HP ENVY 15-U011DX X360 CONVERTIBLE PC (ENERGY STAR) has the 780958-501 motherboard but has a different battery. It doesn't show also the RTC Battery and where you can find it. Please contact our HP Technical Support for other information.
I hope this information has been of assistance to you, Adam. Please reply to this message if there is anything further we can do. For your convenience, you may also call the HP.com Sales Center directly at 1-888-222-0029 between 7:00 AM - 2:00 AM EST, seven days a week.
Customer Satisfaction is our store’s top priority. Please tell us about your email experience today. To participate, please click on our Customer Satisfaction Survey link below.
Thank you for choosing HP. We appreciate your business.
Regards,
Regine G.
Oh dear. So technical support doesn't have technical information about HP machines, and sales support doesn't answer technical questions about HP machines and refers you to technical support. Brilliant. But by this time, I of course knew better than to actually *believe* what someone was telling me, so I used the sales phone number instead.
The sales guy was super eager to help, especially since I framed this as a problem of future use. I work on disaster vulnerability issues. If I buy Envy x360 15ts and use them in a place where there isn't AC power for a while, can I swap spare batteries into them without screwing up the BIOS and real-time clock settings?
He put me on hold two or three times for what I was led to believe were very thorough attempts to get me a totally definitive answer. And this is what someone eventually told him to tell me. All HP machines ship with CMOS batteries.
So I must have been mistaken all along, right? The CMOS battery must have stopped working at the same time as the main battery. It must just be that neither I nor my local repair shop could find my CMOS battery because we all have the wrong prescriptions on our glasses and contact lenses. Well, there's just one small issue with getting to that conclusion: what HP told me about my machine was, once again, totally false.
How do I know? Because I still didn't believe HP, and rather than shipping my compter off for weeks in the big padded box, I ordered a new main battery for a total of just over $60. I swapped it. Guess what happened, HP? If you guessed, "every aspect of the problem instantly resolved, because there never was a CMOS/RTC battery in this machine in the first place", you would win a gold star. But I'm assuming you'd also lose your job, because this particular piece of information has somehow been banished and outlawed from the minds of HP employees and contractors.
I wonder: would anybody at HP be interested in apologizing to me, much less in finding a way to make up for the $115+ I've lost because nobody at any stage to this point has been willing to act like a human being?
BUT WAIT, THERE'S GREAT NEWS
I shouldn't make it seem through this thread that HP totally lacks competence and doesn't care about me at all. Because within two hours of receiving the email from HP Sales telling me that they weren't going to do anything about my problem, I started receiving advertising email blasts full of great offers and promotions about buying a new HP laptop and other great products! Yay! I guess I'm not invisible after all. And I'm sure if I bought *more* stuff from HP, they would take care of me then. Right? -
Mail how to save an email address from new message created?
Hi, I create a new message, type in the address, but i want to save the address in the address book. How the heck is this possible?
If i select the email address i control click it, there is NO menu and no options to save the address.
If i click on the AddressBook button in the tool bar, there is no add button, and i can't drag it to across either, or copy/paste.
The Help says "In a message that you are sending, click the arrow in a Smart Address you have entered and choose "Add to Address Book" from the pop-up menu." There is absolutely NO arrow and NO menu. Even when i turn ON 'Use Smart Addresses' There is absolutely Nothing in ANY menu that lets me save the address.
So how the frell is it even possible to save an address? So what, i have to send the email first then wait for someone to reply before i can select 'Add sender to AddressBook' from the message menu? This is madness and certainly not easy or intuitive. And what is the point of the AddressBook button in new messages toolbar?It does nothing. It opens a window and has no options to add an address or enter any details, only has 'TO' But i already know the address!!! Even if i create a new mail , I click the Address book button highlight the address in the list then click the 'TO' button, it does absolutely nothing, im expecting it to just add this address to the address field in the new mail i just created. I then closed the new mail, instead i click the AddressBook button in the main Mail app toolbar, i select an address in the resulting window, hit the 'TO" button, and mail creates a new message, but it doesn't add the address to the new mail's address field, nor does it close it self behind. What a disaster. I thought this was supposed to be simple and eazy, its a nightmare of a design.
I tried 10.4.5 and now just upgraded to 10.4.6 same problem.
Frustrated at the lack of intuitiveness.Simplest I find is to send the message then look at it in your Sent mailbox. Move the mouse over the To: address and the address will get a blue bubble background with a drop-down arrow at the right end; click this and one of the options should be "add to address book".
When you start a new message, and click the Address book icon on its toolbar, an address book window should appear with all the entries (individual and group) from your address book. Selecting one (or several) of the entries and clicking to will add them to the To header in your new mail. Alternatively you can drag them. If this is not the behaviour you are seeing, please repost with a more descriptive subject. (It is better for both those trying to help, and those seeking solutions, if the problem described matches the subject!)
Once you have brought up the little address book window its design behaviour is to stay until you dismiss it; as you say, it does not close when you close the new email. At this stage, selecting an entry and clicking To should start a new email with the To header containing the selected email address. If this is not happening I suspect it is related to your previous problem, so I would include the description there.
AK
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