Mix Made In 7.1 on PB is ~2db Louder on 7.2 intel MiniMac

I made a mix on my powerbook until it quit processing, then opened it up on our new intel mini to see how much more I could push it. the first thing i notice, its way hotter. i had the original mix occasionally peaking at .1 or .3 on the 1-2 output, but basically inaudible and rarely. I opened the exact same thing on the mini, right after saving, and it clips like crazy all the time, +2 db and audible. why would this happen?

its not used to adjust overall volume
its a settings that keeps your mix in the place you want
0dB means you get the exact level the you produce, but when you pan to the left or right , you get more gain on one side and you lose on the other side
-3dB is similar to 0db differences is unlike 0dB you don't actually get the exact level of your source, logic automatically bring things down by -3dB ( This is good when mixing and ready for master, you can run your mix hot even if touch 0dB abit as long it doesn't distort, and when you are ready to bounce for mastering switch from 0dB to -3dB that will bring the over mix down whilst the master fader still stays the same )
-3dB compensated is like both 0dB but the difference is when you pan it sounds more like a cross fade than
that means you can pan as much as -50 or +50 and still fills like you mix is sitting right
with 0dB you lose other other side as you pan past -30 or +30
with -3db you lose it as you pan past -40 or +40
So normally the best will be -3db compensated if you wanna mix wide and still keep not have sounds missing in your mix
try this
set Pan law to 0db
play a not with a synth that says on the same level with going up and and down, use mono synth if you can
now listen and watch the master level as you go to all the 3 Pan Law settings
try again this time on every settings, pan and see how it sounds
by the way the pan law is in
FILE>SONG SETTINGS>AUDIO
and this something that confuse alot people using Pro Tools or DP or Cubase
if you wanna really hear the mix set the Pan Laws The same between both DAWS
cheers

Similar Messages

How do I see and buy the special mixes made by the iTunes Store

What are the mixes made by apple called and how do I find them when in the store on iPod touch?

Aaron, They were called "iMix." They seem to have been discontinued iin iTunes 11.

Audio Mixer

I am using PE4 and would like to know if there's a simple way to eliminate the audio that is recorded with video which shows up as Audio 1 in the mixer. When I have added a sound track and am editing in the sceneline I have to decrease the Audio 1 level for each added clip. I would like to turn off the Audio 1 and only mix the added soundtrack. Mute turns the Audio 1 off but doesn't keep it off when going back to review the video. Thanks, John P.

John,
Open Audio Mixer, set Mute and then keep Audio Mixer opened. You can drag a corner to minimize the size and drag it to a position, where it will not be in the way, if you need the screen real estate. If you exit from Audio Mixer, it defaults back to playing all Audio Tracks.
This works differently, than in Pro. There, I keep my Audio Mixer docked into the Panel with Effects and Source Monitor and just Tab between those individual Panels. I do not know what sort of Workspace changes might be in PE7, but this is a little problem for me, as well. Still, with the Audio Mixer made quite small, it's not in my way. Since my PE4 is on my 17" laptop (and I do most of my editing on a dual 21" CRT workstation), I've had to learn about Workspaces in a new way (for me, at least). In Pro, one can also just Mute an entire Track in the Timeline, without even using Audio Mixer. It also has little features, like "locking" a Track (Audio or Video), which I love. However, the interface in PE4 was re-designed to simplify general editing for the user-base. It also costs about US$600 less, than Pro, so one must be prepared to give up a few features.
Hunt

How to **dramatically** improve mix clarity!!!!

Simple answer:
M I X - O U T - O F - T H E - B O X ! ! ! ! ! !
You need:
1) an audio interface with multiple outputs (at least 8)
2) an analog mixing device: a Dangerous Music 2Bus is great, but also your dusty Mackie 16:2 will do the job. Switch off every EQs, filters and compressors on the analog board and set the faders to 0 db; you only need the summing bus of the mixer.
3) a A/D converter or a DAT machine or an audio interface with good analog inputs.
Send stereo stems of instrument submixes to 4, 8 or 16 Logic stereo outs, according to the number of audiocard outs and mixer ins.
Mono channels will be good for mono instruments: main vocal, kick drum, snare and BASS are my favorite ones to be mixed in mono.
Now you have an analog signal that needs to be re-digitalized.
The best option is to get a A/D converter, such as my Apogee Mini-Me, with USB out. I then use a laptop with Amadeus II to record the 24 bit file.
Here comes the real trick: separate the stems *ONLY AT THE END* of the mix stage, when you feel quite satisfied of the song.
After the separation, you will notice that the Logic Outs that you are using (i.e. 8 stereo outs) are no more close 0 db, but much less, because each out has less sounds summing.
Now RAISE THE MASTER VOLUME, so that the loudest output (usually the kick drum) is about -0.5 db. You will need to lower the master fader of the analog mixer about 3 or 4 db.
Now listen to the analog mix... what a difference! you will likely need to fine tune it, because the improved clarity will reveal many details that got lost in the digital mix.
Try to bounce a digital mix made within Logic (or Protools, of course) and compare it to an analog version... even if you use an old Mackie you will be blown out by the difference!

My opinion is that Cerla did give an excellent tip for dramatically improving mix clarity, only it's not exactly the tip that was intended to be given.
The key, from what I've personally experienced through my own mixes, is in Cerla's comment that "you will notice that the Logic Outs that you are using (i.e. 8 stereo outs) are no more close 0 db, but much less, because each out has less sounds summing".
A lot of people complain that the mixes they make inside the box of a DAW don't sound nearly as good as the mixes they made in an analog studio. But they're not mixing the same way. When you were recording to tape did you track everything at +6db? When you were mixing from that Studer 24trk through an SSL 6000 did you bury the master section's needles? Why is it that engineers who would never do that in an analog studio insist they must record everything into Logic/PT with all levels peaking at 0dBfs?
So here's the question: does your analog-summed test mix sound better because the analog circuitry in your Mackie 1604 sounds better than the summing algorithms in Logic, or does the Mackie win your test because you didn't push its faders up until the output LEDs refused to dip below the red?
I wonder, if you redo the test and rather than focusing on getting the best mix possible through the Mackie instead focus on making the gain staging through the Mackie the exact same as the gain staging you used on the in-the-box mix if you'll find that your analog mix has gained some of the 'typical digital harshness' that makes everyone wake up screaming in the middle of the night.
If so, and you feel like playing some more, try doing an in-the-box mix in which none of the track levels, including the master, go above -6db. Then, when your mix is as good as you can make it without breaking the -6db ceiling, push the master up to -1db with your favorite mastering plugin (or just push the fader up and let your mastering engineer finish it). It's just something to try, maybe to your ears this will be the worst thing yet. Or maybe you'll find that you can give that Mackie 1604 to the kids down the street who can put it to good use in their garage band's practice room.

Unbelievable Mix! Check this out...

Even before I had logic, I was always infatuated with this website because of the phenominal sounds the demos generated....Now that I have professional equipent (thnx 2 logic) and a whole lot more experience, I was wondering if anyone can give some constructed criticism on the demo, in MY opinion, the overall mix is Astronomical!!! No matter how loud I turn up my monitors the sound doesn't distort, and on top of the the sound is 100% CRYSTAL CLEAR...can anyone tell me how I can acheive this mix? This is the mix i'm longing for!!!!.....I just loveeeeee Clarity please help me out...
http://www.modernbeats.com/demos/EthnicPercussion-Demo.mp3
http://www.modernbeats.com/demos/KlubKlapz1Demo.mp3

re ethno perc. it sounds good because: there is lotza space. the voice over is
placed back in the mix (voice under?) to give a sense of scale.
the melody instruments are about the same level as the vo. the bottom end percussion has a long release time giving a sense of power and scale.
but the biggest feature is the very quick "snat" in the transients of the high percussion, giving it presence, even at mp3 quality. actually i hope some of the brittleness goes away with the true recording. the bass end gets very low, so to hear it on small bookshelf type systems, try boosting the bass below 80 or so Hz.
G4 450DP Mac OS X (10.4.4) digidesign, motu, apogee

FIX for 10.4 Safari 2.0, WMP .wmv .avi files not playing

Microsoft is serving up at least two different versions of WMP as both being current. The link from the page titled
b Microsoft Windows Media Player Download
(in the windows area, but a d/l for the Mac) is the older BAD plugin for Mac (Not working with 10.4). I actually got this page as a top search result.
The pages here #1 and here #2 are current and working WMP plugins.
If I can get
b one
person to confirm it as an independent source, for each link, as the solution to this problem we can put this one to bed, and hopefully make it sticky.
If anyone is so inclined and know the link, copy this and submit it to MS. I'm too busy to scour their poorly organized site to find the web master bug link.

John, thank you!
I've been unable to play CNN and other movies online since late in the Panther upgrades and into Tiger. I tried many different tricks. And for the record, I had to download both of those links in order to get it to work! Downloading the first didn't work, but by downloading both, and (I guess) adding some additional file to mix made it finally work. First time I've been able to view a CNN movie in about a year.
I wish I could tell you exactly what occurred to get it to finally work, but I do believe your theory is correct: there are different versions of Media Player, and you need a combo of ... something... to get it to work properly.
Thanks again.

Almost perfect the third time around; space bar...

Here's my short MacBook Pro story.
Got one, whine, sent back. They replaced it, got another one with a whine. This time they said they'd only repair it. I sent it for repair and they couldn't repair it so they replaced it. Third MacBook I get doesn't whine but it has this annoying issue.
On the right side of the space bar (the side I use most often, more like always) someone is wrong. It makes a 'squeek' sound when I press on it while typing and it doesn't feel firm when I press on it at all. Sounds like I need a new keyboard right? Problem is, this would be the third time I would be going without a computer in the last two months and every time I do this, I really lose productivity.
So, do I have any options? I really would like to solve this another way (physically myself, unlikely or could the keyboard be replaced at an Apple Store?)
Thanks.

i am sorry you have had so many problems...
i have hd repairs at apple where they lost my hardware for months...
they eventually made it right...
call support, complain loud enough to get a dispatcher and ask for freeies...
they say they will not.. but they will
regarding your keyboard... at least a straight swap is only a couple days.. a dispatcher will send you an airbill when they see the MBP scanned into FedEx's shipping system.. as long as it is on its way they can release a replacement..
since MBP's are shipping pretty quick these days you should only be down a couple days.... there is no reason for you to accept anything less
if they tell you otherwise, threaten to call the local news and tell them you want to return the unit if they will not accomadate you.. they will overnight the replacement and probably through some free RAM or an upgrade int he mix....
regarding the whine, I see this from time to whine. (sorry) ... basically, here is what I note.. most do whine lightly under low load... some louder than others.... the whine sometime disappears.... I would (if you get another that has a whine) relax and run quiet macbookpro or open photobooth for a month or two... then address the issue.. here is why.... wen you run XP.... MBPs are silent..... did you get that.. the software can correct the whine.. it is a power managment issue... apple is balming hardware.... but it is a hardware issue.. they WILL get it ironed out and then some day in the near future you will get a software update and whamo.... no whine
i would not send mine in if it whined and I would advise anyone that has a whiner to install XP.. see if it whines.... it won't.. call apple and tell the tech when you report the issue... if you send a report to apple using the software in your computer..... mention that XP's power managment does a better job on their hardware than they do....
lastly, i want to point out that intel has noted the noise issue when the processor is idle..and has a driver for the core duo that is newer than bootcamps... additionally, XPSP2 has a specific update for the core duo's power regulation you can download from MS.... they have more experience working on this hardware.. it makes sense they would have it figureed out a bit...
ok... really lastly, why am I the only one I ever hear that is completely convinced it is a software issue? I mean.. has ANYONE ever had a MBP that whined (not the screen noise reported) when running XP????
anyone....
WHY IS APPLE NOT ADDRESSING IT THAT WAY????
*sorry to shout.. just hoping somebody at apple reads the thread and pays attention*

When I try to record audio with Soundflower, the recording has no audio. What am I doing wrong?

I am an amateur DJ trying to record a mix made in Cross DJ. I followed a tutorial instructing me to use Soundflower to route my system audio to QuickTime and have had no problem routing. Yet when I record the audio with QuickTime, the recording plays no audio. What am I doing wrong? I really need this mix recorded and I have no intention of downloading extra software.

This is because you have Punch on the fly enabled under Options (top menu)>Audio>Punch on the Fly.... signified by the letter P instead of the letter R

Topic : Alesis Master Control Problem (to previous post unanswered fixed)

Topic : Alesis Master Control Problem to the original post user: Garrud
Me:111984cz i have an answer to ur problem.i too had the same problem with cubase 5 ,Nuendo 4 and any of Steinberg softwares with the alesis master-control studio interface. i hope u run into this to learn my fix.
the problem is check ur midi input on your actual track.make sure it says to (master-control midi port) and not (all midi inputs).as for your device manager settings set to (master-control port) don't set your midi to all or master control port as it will interfere .now it will work perfect.this is for all who have the same problem as well.hope this helps many as i spend a lot of hours of trouble shooting.i almost thought there was something wrong with my mixer.have a great day guys!!
Original post:
I've installed the MasterControl driver as instructed and followed the logic set up instructions provided with the MC and all that seems to happen is the Controller acts as a midi keyboard playing different notes rather than the intended function.
e.g if i touch one of the faders it plays a high pitched note and if i move the fader it acts like the note is being pitched, like a pitch bend function on a keyboard.
Very strange...cannot figure out whats going on
PLEASE HELP I'M GOING INSANE
MacBook Pro Mac OS X (10.6.4)

I too had the same problem and resolved it.
However, I have had nothing but issues with the Alesis Mastercontrol since it arrived last week. I purchased mine second-hand as a replacement to a Fire-Wire / Analogue mixer made by Mackie (Onyx 1220). A fantastic amp, but not a control surface.
I decided I wanted an all rounder, plus something I could place in-front of my iMac so I could work on the fly.
So...
1) Alesis Mastercontrol
2) 1 x Rode microphone in Ch1
3) 1 x Rode microphone in Ch2
4) Peavey guitar in Ch3
I use Logic Studio Pro 8.
I finally figured out how to get the Alesis to behave and interact with Logic. So far so good!
I then ran into a series of issues that are frustrating me.
I cannot get the microphones to mute properly (I would also complain about the poorly position gain dials at the back of the unit for the microphones. So poor indeed that I have purchased an Art mic preamp to slap into the back (not arrived yet) and by-pass the rear controls).
I also cannot get my semi-acoustic Peavey to record at all. I can hear it through the control desk, but it is much lower than expected and I am getting nothing when I try to record). In record mode the pair of mics record and I can't get the 3rd channel to operate, although it looks like it's functioning on the screen. I try MUTE / SOLO and selecting the correct channel, but nothing!
All I can do is record myself playing guitar through the mics I cannot switch off.
Strange machine! Almost wishing I'd not sold my Mackie Onyx 1220 so swiftly.

Yamaha MSP5a vs. Yamaha HS50M vs M-Audio monitors (BX8a or BX5a)

I currently own a pair of M-Audio BX8s that I use for DJing. I need another pair of monitors for my home studio though. I really like my friend's Yamaha monitors. Any audiophiles that can give me a breakdown of the difference between the two Yamahas?
I can get the BX8a's for around $380, the BX5a's for $250, the MSP5a's are like $500 and the other Yamahas are $400.
I guess part of me thinks I shouldn't have 2 pairs of M-Audio speakers.

Just a follow up-
The Presonus got sent back as well, the s/pdif would not sync, the (digital) mixer made noise with every pot movement, the main outs emitted a horrible whine & the software plugs never loaded correctly. Other than that, it was a fine unit.
I just yesterday got a Mackie ONYX 400F that thus far is the most solid-in terms of not dropping the FW-of the three & the pres sound magnificent. There have been some reported issues on the forums, but I've not experienced any. It was a b-stock from MF for 399 so I am naturally a bit anxious, but I'll leave it on for 44 days & see what happens.
-d

10.6.8 Wifi Mac Mini Core Solo Problems

Hi All,
I have had my beloved Mac Mini core solo (1.5ghz) since 2007 and have had regular upgrades to keep it alive (upgraded hard drive, ram etc.).
A couple of days ago I upgraded the airport card - it previously was only 802.11 a/b/g, but I now have the atheros 9280 802.11 a/b/g/n successfully installed into the machine.
The main reason for doing this is that my previous airport card just never seemed to work at all; I have an iphone and ipad and they both successfully connect to my Orange livebox router with no problems whatsoever, yet my Mac Mini did not connect at all having tried everything I can. Therefore my final solution was to arrange an update of the airport card to the new atheros one suggested by my local Apple dealer.
I brought the Mac home, and tried to attahc to my wifi router to immediate success. It had full signal strength and was working flawlessly. I then turned the machine off, went out for a while and then came home to find it was not working again and kept searching for the wifi router and asking for constant passwords. After a long time, it seemed to work again but after I turned the machine off it lost the settings (depsite me asking network settings to save via the locked button) and I am constantly repeating this process.
I am therefore wondering if anyone can help. The atheros 9280 airport card information is as follows (from the system profiler):
Software Versions:
Menu Extra: 6.2.2 (622.2)
configd plugin: 6.2.5 (625.6)
System profiler: 6.0.1 (601.1)
Network preference: 6.2.2 (622.2)
Aiport Utility: 5.5.3 (553.20)
IO80211 Family: 4.0 (400.40)
Card Type: Airport Extreme (0x168C, 0x8F)
Firmware version: Atheros 9280: 2.1.14.6
Locale: FCC
Country Code: DE
Supported PHY Modes: 802.11 a/b/g/n
Supported Channels: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,36,40,44,48,52,56,60,64,100,104,108,112,116,120,1 24,128,132,136,140
Wake on Wireless: Supported
Status: Network Service Inactive
Just to also add that its Snow Leopard 10.6.8, Intel Mac Mini core 1.5ghz solo, and my Orange Wifi router is quite old (around 2006) so supports a/b/g - I was thinking that this may be the fault but why would all my other apple systems have no problems with this connection?
Any help would be really appreciated as I'm going a little nuts here!
fdsbh

Really? I thought Sno was supposed to be more efficient?
I'd say that SL is more efficient on a machine it was made to run on. Apple didn't exclude the single core Intel processor, probably because they didn't have to change their code like they would have for a PPC processor but part of the efficiency is it's ability to split services to the separate cores in the CPU. You only have one, so that part of the improvement is of no use. All of the processes the OS handles and splits to multiple CPU cores are worthless and your programs will just have to wait until the CPU has time for you.
Meanwhile, the programs you are running are more powerful and provide higher quality and really need the extra core. The speed of the ram, the buss, and the hard drive are not as fast as your MacBook either. All of this data has to be moved around quite a bit from the drive to ram and then back to the drive.
Christmas is coming
WinXP will run on a 600Mhz PII processor with 128MB's of PC100 ram, but you wouldn't want to. It's not a lot of fun to work with or work on.
Unless there is some whiz bang program or technology that you need from SL, I'd take the machine back to Leopard or even Tiger, which it probably ran pretty well.

865PE Neo2(6728) D-Bracket hangs at Memory Detection Test

This is terribly annoying... I just bought the mother board... Its a 865PE Neo2(6728)800mhzFSB the processor is P4 2.4ghz 800mhz, 512k l2-Cache. I dont know who made it like i know nothing about northwood or whatever, it says Intel on the box... I have 512MB of "Legacy Electronics" PC3200 64x64 DDR... I also just bought a NVdia G4 Ti-4200 64mb DDR 4x AGP made by Pixelview. I have a 160GB WD 8mb Cache 7200 HD... Ok the problem is when i go to boot up the computer, the VIDEO doesnt come on, and when i installed the "D-Bracket" the lights hang at 3 light, top right green all other red... Says in the manual that problem is memory detection test, testing onboard memory size, will hang if damaged or not installed properly. Ok. I have no idea how that wo;uld happen so, just to check i took out RAM, no dice, i changed video cards to MX440 G4, no dice, i tried disconnection the PCI slot which has the 160GB hard drive connected(why it needs this i dont know, according to WD WinXP needs...) none of this changes anything.. How do i check the onboard memory or could it be anything else? Ok thats all i have thanks for the help!!

Did you tried to boot up the system without the D-Bracket?
Yes it still does nothing, no video... Thats why i put in the D-Bracket. It doesnt sound like its going through the POST either.. I dont know if computers do that anymore thou;gh haha..
If you did, did you change to another piece of RAM to test?
I have no more DDR to put in, only SDRam and im sure that wont work.. I tried moving to different slots, 1 3 and 4 thinking maybe it was backwords i dunno... Didnt do anything, and you USED to be able to take the ram out and still boot into bios etc...
Did you change any settings in your BIOS?
I havent even gotten video, nada... Black screen.
What is the wattage of the PSU you are using now?
Where do i find the wattage? The watts on the case is uh... 350 or 400 one of the two... The case says USB Deluxe P4 Case... And the watts on the Power supply is 115 if thats what you were wondering... Hope that answer the question

I use the oldest intel iMac, 1.86 GHz Intel I have iTunes 11.1.2 on it but it will not open. Do I need an different iTunes?

My iTunes will not open when I click on it. It thinks it does, it records that it was opened but it is inaccessible to me. I wonder if I downloaded one that is too modern for me. I just downloaded iTunes 11.1.4 but I discover I need a 2 GHz processor and an Intel Core 2 Duo Hard Drive for that version. It makes me wonder if I needed that for the 11.1.2 version. I run OS 10.6.8 and that is the requirement for the 11.1.4 version. I have only an Intel Core Duo hard drive. It is the first Inter iMac that was made.
Looking for help. Susan

11.1.4 simply specifies and Intel Core processor and 10.6.8 so it should run fine. I should start by going to (user)/Library/Preferences and deleting all .plist files beginning with com.apple.itunes (there will probably be quite a lot of them) - do this with iTunes not running, of course. See if it then opens: you will need to reset your preferences.

Raid Setup Guide 865/875 LSR/FIS2R Rev 1.04

On-Board Raid Setup MSI 865PE/875P
Revision History
Revision 1.0 (January 2004)
- Original Raid Article
Revision 1.01 (February 2004)
- Reformatted text and fixed spelling/grammar
Revision 1.02 (October 2004)
- Added warnings to temporarily disconnect ALL drives including Zip drives during formatting Raid drives for WinXP.
Revision 1.03 (October 2005)
- Reformatted text and added links to download Promise/Intel Raid floppies if user is missing them.
Revision1.04 (February 2006)
- Minor BB reformatting
Intro
Equipment List For Tests
Description of Tests
Pre-Raid Setup Bios Tweaks
Raid Setup On Promise Controller
Raid Setup On Intel Controller
--->Intel- Migrating from single SATA to Full Raid Array
Intro
This guide is intended to help people configure their Bios and setup Windows for Raid using the Intel ICH5R controller and the Promise FastTrak 378 controller. Although all the tests were done using Raid-0 the methods described should be virtually identical to setting up Raid-1 provided the user is aware of the fundamental differences between the two. It should be useful for anyone with an MSI 865PE/875P chipset on motherboards with LSR and FIS2R suffixes. Before continuing, please read the FAQ thread posted by Maesus and the Raid manual(s) that came with your motherboard. There's also some good info regarding Raid Here and Here and Here
Keep in mind this guide is intended as a reference to help you. It is not a manual. I do not work for MSI and my equipment and time are limited. You will have different equipment and different versions of software.
All the data below is based on tests that I ran and I tried to avoid using any theory that I did not test. If you feel I’ve missed something obvious or if you have something you feel should be added to make this guide clearer or simpler, please PM me with your thoughts. If you have a specific problem that this guide does not help you with, post a detailed thread in the forum on the main page.
Equipment List For Tests
MSI 875P FIS2R Motherboard
Bios 1.8
Enermax EG365P-VE (350w) PSU
P4 2.6c CPU
Kingston KHX-3200A2 2x512MB Memory
Radeon 9800Pro AIW Video Card
WD 400JB 40GB/8MB cache IDE Hdd
2-Seagate 80GB 7200.7 SATA Hdd's
Liteon 52x32x52 CDRW
Floppy Drive
Tests
Generally, tests were as follows:
Configure 2 SATA on Promise controller(serial3&4) as Raid0 and install WindowsXP Home SP1a on Raid
Configure 2 SATA on Promise controller(serial3&4) as Raid0 and add Raid to an existing WindowsXP installation on IDE drive(IDE1)
Configure 2 SATA on Intel Raid controller(serial1&2) as Raid0 and install WindowsXP Home SP1a on Raid
Configure 2 SATA on Intel Raid controller(serial1&2) as Raid0 and add Raid to an existing WindowsXP installation on IDE drive(IDE1)
Configure 1 SATA on Intel Raid controller(serial1) and install WindowsXP Home SP1a on it. Then add 2nd SATA on Intel Raid controller(serial2) and migrate to Raid0 using Intel Application Accelerator-Raid edition.
IDE drive used in these tests was pre-installed with a fresh copy of WinXP Home SP1a using default settings and the following drivers all from MSI setup CD and Raid Floppy Disks that came with motherboard:
Intel INF files - version 1002
Gigabit Lan drivers - 7.0.37.0
SoundMax drivers - 5.12.1.3538
Catalyst 3.7 & Multimedia Center drivers from standard ATI CD came with video card.
Pre-Raid BIOS Tweaks
Before I continue, I'd like to point out a few changes from the defaults that I alway make to Bios before I attempt a WinXP install or hardware change. I can't guarantee that they all apply to you but none should make things worse. If anything differs from a setting that you feel is fixing another problem you're having, by all means leave at your prefferred setting. Anything related to performance and overclocking can be raised again AFTER the Raid is all setup and everything is running smoothly.
Standard Cmos Features
The only thing I change here is to enable "32bit transfer mode" whenever I connect new devices to the Intel IDE controller.
Note: Devices attached to the Promise controller and the Intel Raid(when it is enabled) will NOT appear in the standard Cmos page
Advanced Bios Features
Everything on defaults is usually fine except I always change the following for WinXP:
APIC ACPI SCI IRQ - Enabled
Boot Device select is also on this page and you'll be changing it after all the hardware is setup; more later.
Advanced Cipset Features
Confirm that the memory timing "by SPD" is enabled
PNP/PCI Configurations
Clear NVRam option I always set to "YES" before the first boot after making hardware changes. I'm not sure how important this is but I understand that's what you're supposed to do. I believe it forces the motherboard to detect hardware changes. It reverts to "NO" after the reboot.
PCI/IDE Busmaster set to "enabled" to speed things up outside of Windows.
Integrated Peripherals (Before Raid for most flexibilty)
Onboard Promise IDE - Disabled if you have nothing attached to IDE3 and Serial 3&4
ON-Chip IDE Configuration:
Native Mode (Supported by WinXP- Allows all devices connected to IDE 1&2 and Serial 1&2 to be detected)
SATA Only or PATA Only (select the one that you boot XP with)
Keep SATA Active - Yes (if option available)
Keep PATA Active - Yes (if option available)
PATA Channel selection - Both (if option available)
Configure SATA as Raid - No (if option available)
Leave other settings here at default
Note: Some older Bios versions may appear different than above
Frequency/Voltage Control
Dynamic Overclocking - Disabled
Performance Mode - Slow
Dram Frequency - Auto
Adjust CPU Bus - 201 (for "c" type cpu's)
DDR Voltage - 2.65 (minimum for Dual-Channel Mem stability)
AGP Voltage - 1.55
Note: some features above may not appear with your Bios
Note: performance & overclocking features can be increased again AFTER the Raid array has been setup and is stable with Windows.
Raid On Promise Controller
This procedure should work for anyone adding a Raid array to a system already having XP installed on another drive on the Intel controller or intending to install Windows XP on the new Raid array.
Note: IDE 3 and Serial 3&4 connectors are controlled by the Promise controller.
Note: It is possible to setup Raid arrays using 2 IDE drives on IDE3 or even 2 SATA & 2 IDE drives. I only tested 2 SATA drives on Serial 3&4 connectors.
Note: It is possible to setup Raid 0+1 using 2 IDE drives on IDE3 and 2 SATA drives on Serial 3&4. See HERE for a related thread.
Note: It is possible to setup SATA or IDE drives on the Promise controller as separate drives NOT using Raid but I did not test this. See your manual.
- Attach the SATA drives to Serial 3&4 connectors and ensure that both power and data cables are securely connected. Most SATA drives do NOT need any changes to default jumper positions if any(check Hdd installation instructions).
- Boot into Bios
Integrated Peripherals:
Set Onboard Promise IDE - As Raid
- Save and reboot computer
- Use control-F keys during the boot(when prompted-goes by quickly) to enter the Promise Raid Bios.
Note: You will only be able to enter the promise Bios if you have set the Promise controller to "As Raid" AND there are devices connected and detected by the Promise Bios.
- Use the menus to configure the Raid for your preferences.
Note: I can't say which settings you should use for creating the Raid. It depends on many things. Do some research.
- After saving the Raid array, reboot to Bios.(you should see the configured array for a second or two during the post and it should be "functional")
- In Advanced bios Features>>Boot Device Select:
Set the order you prefer to boot from
- If you already have XP installed on another drive and are just adding the Raid for an extra drive, Ensure that the list is still appropriate and includes your XP drive.
- If you will be installing XP on the new Raid, make sure the new Raid array is in the boot list and any other hard drives are NOT.
Note: Typically, I put the disk with XP first and use F11 key during post to boot from another device. This is not required though.
- Save bios
Important!: If you are installing XP on the new Raid array, you should now shutdown and either disconnect or disable any other drives connected until AFTER XP is installed. This includes USB/Zip drives.(See "Bugs" below).
If Installing XP On The New Raid Array(others skip to below):
- Boot from the Windows XP Setup CD and use F6 key when prompted(at the beginning).
- Follow prompts to load the WinXP Promise FastTrack 376/378 Controller from the floppy that came with motherboard(If Required Download Floppy Here). There are a number of different choices on the floppy. PICK THE RIGHT ONE.
Note: if using Win2K with the floppy, you can scroll down to get more driver options on this screen. It's not readily apparent on the screen.
- Continue setup and Windows should now show you the new Raid array as a single drive available to install to. If it shows other drives that you have connected, re-read the "important" note above and the related section on "Bugs" below.
- When XP setup makes its first re-boot, make sure the floppy has been removed or depending on your settings it may give you a scary moment. Yes I did this(tries to boot from floppy).
- After XP is up and running, you can re-connect/re-enable any drives you disconnected earlier. If they have been formatted, they should show up immediately and be assigned letters after your CD/DVD drives.
- You can also install the Promise Array Manager software(from MSI CD utilities tab or download) which adds some array management settings.
If XP Already Installed On Another Drive(and you're just adding the Raid as an extra storage disk):
- Boot into WindowsXP.
- As Windows starts, it should detect a new Raid device and offer to install drivers.
- Select Cancel. It will tell you that it was unable to install new device. If you want you can confirm the new device is present by checking Windows device Manager. It should show the new device with a yellow exclamation mark beside it since the drivers aren't installed yet.
- Download the appropriate drivers or use the MSI CD that came with motherboard.
Note: The MSI CD detects devices connected and shows available drivers/utilities depending on what it sees. You might not have seen the Promise drivers when using the CD before but now that you have a Raid array connected to it, the drivers will be availble from the MSI setup CD.
- Install the drivers and re-boot
- Device Manager should now show the Raid properly identified by XP.
- If the Raid array was not previously formatted, you can now use Windows Disk Manager (Start > Run and type diskmgmt.msc) to Initialize and then format the Raid array.
- The Raid array should now show in Windows Explorer with it's own drive letter.
Bugs/Surprises
- Trying to install WinXP on the Promise Raid while my IDE drive was connected to the Intel IDE connector resulted in Windows installing boot files to the IDE drive and the rest on the Raid drives. This was especially bad since I had another installation of XP on the IDE drive which was overwritten. The work-around was to disable the IDE drive until AFTER XP was setup on the Raid array.
Update: There have been a few posts on the forum since I wrote this guide where people installing XP have had problems similar to the one above with USB/Zip drives connected so i am adding them to the list of drives to disconnect while installing XP.
- When setting "Boot Device Select", if I selected "NO" for "boot from other devices", the motherboard would ignore my selection and still boot from other devices if the ones in the list were unusable.
- Be gentle with SATA connectors on the motherboard. They can stand firm downward pressure but not a lot of side-to-side pressure.
Raid On Intel Controller
This procedure should work for anyone adding 2 SATA hard drives for a Raid array on a system already having XP installed on another drive or intending to install XP on the new Raid array.
Note: IDE 1&2 and Serial 1&2 connectors are controlled by the Intel ICH5R controller. Only Serial 1&2 can be configured for Raid arrays.
You can also install a single SATA drive and configure the system for Raid BEFORE installing XP on this drive if you intend to add another SATA drive later to form a Raid array. This method was also tested. I will refer to this for the rest of the thread as the Raid-Ready Method.
Note: If you install WinXP on a single SATA drive without enabling Raid and loading Raid drivers, you will NOT be able to migrate the XP disk to a Raid array at a later date. Reinstalling XP would be required.
Note: There is no performance advantage to having a single drive with Raid enabled. But doing so makes the disk Raid-ready and XP reinstall unnecessary.
- Attach the SATA drive(s) to Serial 1&2 connectors and ensure that both power and data cables are securely connected. Most SATA drives do NOT need any changes to default jumper positions if any(check Hdd installation instructions).
- Boot into Bios
- In "Integrated Peripherals>>On-Chip IDE Configuration" set:
Native Mode (Supported by WinXP- Allows all devices connected to IDE 1&2 and Serial 1&2 to be detected)
SATA Only (Even if you will be booting XP from a PATA drive)
Keep PATA Active - Yes
PATA Channel selection - Both
Configure SATA as Raid - Yes
Leave other settings here at default
Note: Some older Bios versions may appear different than above.
- Save Bios and reboot computer
- Use control-I keys during post(when prompted-goes by quickly) to enter the Intel Raid Bios Utility.
Note: If you are using the single SATA Raid-Ready Method, you can skip the steps involving the Intel Raid utility. Go to the step for setting Boot device select in main Bios.
Note: You will only be able to enter the Intel Raid Bios if you have set the "Configure SATA as Raid" option to "YES" AND there are devices connected and detected by the Intel Raid Bios.
- Use the menus to configure the Raid for your preferences.
Note: I can't say which settings you should use for creating the Raid. It depends on many things. The Intel utility does describe the different options well though.
- After saving the Raid array, reboot to Bios.(you should see the configured array for a second or two during the post and it should be "functional")
- In Advanced bios Features>>Boot Device Select:
Set the order you prefer to boot from;
If you already have XP installed on another drive and are just adding the Raid for an extra drive, Ensure that the list is still appropriate and includes your XP drive.
If you will be installing XP on the new Raid or using Raid-Ready Method, make sure the new Raid array or raid-ready drive is in the boot list and any other hard drives are NOT.
Note: Typically, I put the disk with XP first and use F11 key during post to boot from another device. This is not required though.
- Save bios
Important!: If you are installing XP on the new Raid array or using the Raid-Ready Method, you should now shutdown and either disconnect or disable any other hard drives connected until AFTER XP is installed. This includes Zip/USB drives. (See "Bugs" below).
If Installing XP On The New Raid Array Or Using Raid-Ready Method(others skip to below):
- Boot from the Windows XP Setup CD and use F6 key when prompted(at the beginning).
- Follow prompts to load the IAA Raid Driver for ICH5R (If Required Download Floppy Here) from the floppy that came with motherboard. I only had 1 driver to choose from on my floppy but if you have more, CHOOSE THE RIGHT ONE!
- Continue and Windows Setup should now show you the new Raid array or Raid Ready drive as a single drive available to install to. If it shows other drives that you have connected, re-read the "important" note above and the related section on "Bugs" below.
- When XP setup makes its first re-boot, make sure the floppy has been removed or depending on your settings it may give you a scary moment. Yes I did this(tries to boot from floppy).
- After XP is up and running and INF files and other important drivers installed, you can re-connect/re-enable any hard drives you disconnected earlier. If they have been formatted, they should show up immediately and be assigned letters after your CD/DVD drives.
- You can also install the Intel IAA-Raid Program(from MSI CD utilities tab or download) which gives some info and adds the array management settings(Not many. Just the enable/disable cache setting and the migrate to raid option).
If XP Already Installed On Another Drive(and you're just adding the Raid as an extra storage disk):
- Boot into WindowsXP.
- As Windows starts, it should detect a new Raid device and offer to install drivers. Select Cancel. It will tell you that it was unable to install new device. If you want you can confirm the new device is present by checking Windows device Manager. It should show the new device with a yellow exclamation mark beside it since the drivers aren't installed yet.
- Download the appropriate drivers or use the MSI CD that came with motherboard.
Note: The MSI CD detects devices connected and shows available drivers/utilities depending on what it sees. You might not have seen the IAA Raid drivers when using the CD before but now that you have a Raid array connected to it, the drivers will be availble from the MSI setup CD.
- Install the drivers and re-boot
Note: If the IAA Raid program detects that the Raid controller is not enabled or no device is present, it will NOT allow you to install the drivers/utility.
- Using Windows Device Manager should now show the Raid device properly with no problems.
- If the Raid array has not been formatted, you can now use Windows Disk Manager (Start > Run and type diskmgmt.msc) to Initialize and then format the Raid array.
- The new drive should now appear in Windows Explorer with it's own drive letter.
Bugs/Surprises
- Trying to install WinXP on the Promise Raid while my IDE drive was connected to the Intel IDE connector resulted in Windows installing boot files to the IDE drive and the rest on the Raid drives. This was especially bad since I had another installation of XP on the IDE drive which was overwritten. The work-around was to disable the IDE drive until AFTER XP was setup on the Raid array. It is safe to assume this can occur with the Intel controller as well since I believe the problem occurs because of how WinXP setup addresses the hard drives.
Update: There have been a few posts on the forum since I wrote this guide where people installing XP have had problems similar to the one above with USB/Zip drives connected so i am adding them to the list of drives to disconnect while installing XP.
- Be gentle with SATA connectors on the motherboard. They can stand firm downward pressure but not a lot of side-to-side pressure.
Migrating XP System Disk To Raid On Raid-Ready System
This part describes how to use the Intel Application Accelerator-Raid edition to migrate an existing WinXP system disk (1-SATA) to a 2-SATA Raid array.
This procedure is actually very well documented in the last part of the Intel SATA Raid manual that ships with the motherboard but I thought I’d add it to make this thread more complete.
Please note that to use this feature of the Intel raid software the disk you are migrating FROM must have been made Raid-Ready as described above. Basically, this means that Raid should have been enabled in the Bios and the drivers installed from floppy during the WinXP install.
Note: I tested this by migrating to a Raid0 array but Raid1 should work also if the latest Bios and version of Intel-Raid application used.
- Open the Intel Application Accelerator Raid utility.
- With the “Raid” tab window open, right-click on “Raid volume” and select “Create from Existing Disk” as seen below.
- Follow the next several steps to choose the type of Raid array and the strip size.
Note: 64kb strip size is good for general purpose and 128kb best for most desktops and work stations according to Intel. Anything smaller is for specialized purposes. You should research this a little because you can’t change it after easily.
- After configuring the array for your preferences, you will face a couple of warnings telling you that “All data will be deleted from the Raid-controlled drive(s) and is unrecoverable” and ask if you want to continue. Obviously all data(if any) on the new drive you’re adding will be lost but the OS and other data on the disk you’re migrating FROM will be striped to the new array and will remain intact.
Note: Any complex disk procedure such as this carries the risk of losing data. A backup of the disk is important BEFORE beginning the migration process. Don't say I didn't warn you.
- The migration process can take a long time. You should see the window below during the operation.
Note: With just a default WinXP installation, migrating to 2-80Gb drives took about an hour for me.
- After the migration is complete, you will be prompted to re-boot to complete the process.
- During the reboot, as the Intel Bios comes up for a couple of seconds(don’t blink) you will see the 2 drives configured as an array and they will be listed as “functional”.
- After the reboot, you should have a fully functional Raid array with 2 SATA drives and all data from the single drive will have been striped or mirrored into the second one. Check Windows Disk manager(Start > Run and type diskmgmt.msc) to see the status of the new drive. See bugs/surprises below.
Bugs/Surprises
The only problem I had with this test came in the form of a small surprise after everything was completed and the computer had rebooted. Although the Intel Application Accelerator showed everything functioning normally, Windows explorer showed my Raid drive as 74Gb in size instead of the 150Gb or so that I expected. After checking Windows disk Manager (Start > Run and type diskmgmt.msc), I found that the missing GB’s were in fact there but were unformatted. Unfortunately, Disk Manager does not seem to allow merging or extending partitions so I ended up using Partition Magic 8 to format the empty space and merge it with the rest of the partition. This seemed to work fine and I ended up with a single 150Gb drive showing up in Windows Explorer. I also briefly tested the performance to confirm that it was operating as a Raid array.
I know there is a utility for Win2K called DiskPart.exe that is run from command console to extend NTFS partitions but if anyone knows of an easier way or a FREE utility that will format/merge NTFS partitions that they have confirmed works, please PM me so that I can include a reference to it here.
All the data above is based on tests that I ran and I tried to avoid using any theory that I did not test. If you feel I’ve missed something obvious or if you have something you feel should be added to make this guide clearer or simpler, please PM me with your thoughts. If you have a specific problem that this guide does not help you with, post a detailed thread in the forum on the main page.
Vango44

Great work vango44!
Here are some RAID performance statistics I gathered while testing RAID on my system. The testing software was Winbench 99. The hard drives tested were new Seagate ST380013AS drives, formatted NTFS. Winbench was running on a third drive that is not included in the tests and should not affect the results.
The drives were reformatted between tests and chkdsk'ed to try and keep things "apples to apples".
No hardware or software changes other than the RAID setup/connections were made between tests.
Higher numbers mean better performance.
I also ran the same tests on the newish WD Raptor 10K drives:
I couldn't stand all the noise the Raptors made, so I returned them.
On my motherboard:
SATA 1 & 2 = Intel RAID controller
SATA 3 & 4 = Promise RAID controller
If the test title does not include "RAID", then it was a single drive test.
Unfortunately, I don't have a spreadsheet version of the above stats. Otherwise I'd create nice bar charts for us and it's would be easier to deduce performance.
Perhaps some kind reader will OCR the pictures, put them into Excel, and make some nice bar charts for us?
Hope the info helps.

Recently upgraded, considering downgrading...anyone else having these issues?

Hi all,
So within the last month, before (and unfortunately, RIGHT before) my 3-year Apple Care expried, I belatedly made the decision to upgrade the RAM of my 2.53 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo refurb'd MacBook Pro to its 8GB max, in prep for upgrading to Mountain Lion from Snow Leopard (I was told by AppleCare that I could make such a jump no problem).
Frankly, as a whole since then, I have NOT been entirely pleased:
1) While the notification system is convenient, I have yet to see the point/purpose of any of the new programs.
2) I REALLY dislike the new inconveniently disappearing/reappearing "scroll bar" that used to be on the right-hand side of all my web browser/word processing windows, which essentially forces me to search for it and/or use the "Down" arrow to scan through something, as opposed to just autmoatically being able to drag down to the bottom/halfway/etc mark, as I could before.
3) Finder's left-hand window--of my Favorites, and most importantly, connected Devices-- is almost as bad to navigate. Now, I seem to have to resize the whole window to find a flash drive I've just put in-- or, the Server icon at my job every morning-- wheras before, it seemed that they all just showed up automatically in Snow Leopard.
4) I also dislike how I can no longer automatically tell-- in any given Finder window-- exactly how much space is left on my Hard Drive or any External/Flash Drives, and instead have to "Get Info."
5) With the hidden boot partition-- and fortunately, I backed mine up to an external flash drive as well-- I can no longer be certain that I'm backing up my drive properly: the program I had been using, Carbon Copy Cloner (I've never been a fan of Time Machine, which from my admittedly limited experience is too simple and not that customizable) not only now costs money, but now gives me a variety of error messages... leaving me essentially looking for a new-- preferrably freeware-- backup program (suggestions?)
6) Perhaps most worrisome, I've noticed now that my computer is running louder, the drive acting faster, and getting hotter than it EVER did before (which you can understand is a major concern, in light of the backups issue). At least once, I've had to Force Quit Finder after the "Spinning Wheel" and NOT had it restart automatically, on another occasion, it wouldn't let me Restart my computer.
The 2nd party store that installed my new RAM casually recommended I invest in an internal Solid State Drive beforehand, but now, it seems almost like a requirement! And while I understand that switching out your old drive is ultimately probably a good investment to prolong the life of my MBP, when you consider that I only paid some $20 to upgrade to Mountain Lion and now have to potentially look at paying another $200 for a fast SSD that I didn't need before to keep my whole system up to speed, you can see how maybe I'm not getting the better end of the deal.
That said, I am strongly considering downgrading BACK to Snow Leopard... after all, I mainly use my computer for web-browsing, word processing, watching/ripping/burning CDs and DVDs, and some Avid/FCP work... and it seemed to do all of that OK on Snow Leopard.
Still, I'm already really concerned over how easily I can do that now... sure, I still have the original Snow Leopard Install DVD, sure, I've been backing up my drive with all the User content/files/text documents/photos/music/Mountain Lion programs/etc, but there's no guarantee that the programs I got (some of which friends installed) will still work afterwards... added to the fact that I'll probably now have to pay the Genius Bar guys/a 3rd party company to safely do the downgrade for me.
So: I am being hypersensitive? Am I the only one here who's noticed their MBP hard drive running faster after upgrading to Mountain Lion? Should I not be concerned, or not upgrade my HD? Is there ANY way to customize/deal with the browser/scroll bar/Finder issue complaints I mentioned?
Please HELP!!

Upgrading from SL to Mt. Lion takes some getting accustomed to, but
some of your problems could be solved by configuring the preferences in the Finder,
for example: Look at the list of changes from SL to Mt. Lion compiled by Pondini:
OSX Tips Mountain Lion Changes
OSX Tips Some Changes in Lion
2) I REALLY dislike the new inconveniently disappearing/reappearing "scroll bar"
Turn them on again permanently, only you will not get the arrows back, (System Preferences > Scrollbars > Always)
Now, I seem to have to resize the whole window to find a flash drive I've just put in-- or, the Server icon at my job every morning-- wheras before, it seemed that they all just showed up automatically in Snow Leopard.
You can collaps sections of the sidebar by toggling the "show/hide" button to the right of the caption, or option/drag the "Devices" brick of the sidebar to the top of the list.
4) I also dislike how I can no longer automatically tell-- in any given Finder window-- exactly how much space is left on my Hard Drive or any External/Flash Drives, and instead have to "Get Info."
Finder's main menu bar > View > Show Status Bar
Pondini's summaries will give you plenty of hints on how to tame the lions and to break them in to suit your needs.
Regards
Léonie

Mix Made In 7.1 on PB is ~2db Louder on 7.2 intel MiniMac

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