Mixing audio for DVD

Hello, can I borrow a peck of wisdom please?
I'm experienced in mixing audio for UK broadcast standards, but I now find myself in need of producing DVCAM masters which will go on to be encoded to DVD.
Can anyone give me any tips / point out any obvious pitfalls?
So far the main issue seems to be that DVD authors expect a much smaller headroom for their audio e.g. 0.5-3 dB as opposed to 10dB for broadcast. Should I try to accomplish this on tape or should I ask them to normalise the material before they encode?
Do I generally need to compress more?
Is DVD more or less forgiving of peakiness and short sharp spikes in level.
Any recommendations for good texts / faqs etc for audio on DVD?
Thanks in advance for your thinking time.
Jim

I once made a DVD with levels at a bit below 0dB and I heard some distortion.
where did you hear the distortion?
AFAIK there's no technical reason why you shouldn't go to 0dB. But keep in mind that when using AC3 the audio has to be compressed. And depending on the material and AC3-settings the distortion might have occured in that step.
cheers
Martin

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Audio for DVD

I know this might be a bit off-topic, but since I'm a Logic Pro user, I thought it would be ok to ask this here:
Does anyone know the maximum level for audio used in a movie on DVD?
I once made a DVD with levels at a bit below 0dB and I heard some distortion. But it does not have to be at -9dB, does it?
Thanks in advance!

I once made a DVD with levels at a bit below 0dB and I heard some distortion.
where did you hear the distortion?
AFAIK there's no technical reason why you shouldn't go to 0dB. But keep in mind that when using AC3 the audio has to be compressed. And depending on the material and AC3-settings the distortion might have occured in that step.
cheers
Martin

Re Compress Audio for DVD

I have over time used Compressor to create my DVD files using the 90min preset. Now with Compressor 2 you can use the Dolby Digital setting to save some space.
Is it possible to take my existing audio files on my demo(Aiff) and re-compress them to dolby digital to free up some MBs on the DVD so I may add more work. I just would like to skip having to re open old projects and import tape etc.
Thanks

If you have an aiff audio file that you've used with the associated video, just drop it into compressor and use the DVD AC3/Dolby2 preset to encode it.
Then take the ac3 file and substitute it in your demo.

Any free way to encode 5.1 audio track for DVD?

Besides the limited 3-use SurCode for Dolby Digital that comes with Premiere, is there any free way to encode or convert a 5.1 PCM WAV file to a surround format for DVD?
Thanks!

I can't find the post, but I saved it...Here it is:
Like most of you, I was annoyed to find out I couldn't create AC3 surround sound files with my CS4 software, and also that we got downgraded from Audition to Soundbooth. We all paid a lot for it! I know many people have ranted about that already, so enough said.
Here is a workflow that gets around that problem without ponying up for the SurCode Plug-in, and/or buying Audition!
To convert your mixed 5.1 audio, or stereo audio, to the DVD standard AC3 file that Encore wants, download the latest version of Audacity here:http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ It is available for Mac OS X, Microsoft Windows, GNU/Linux, and other operating systems. If you don't know already, it's free!
Now, before I start getting flamed, about Audacity, it works great! The UI is not the most modern, but the quality is top-notch. I've used it for years and most complaints about it are unjustified.
You'll need to download the latest version: "Beta: 1.3x - for advanced users." There will soon, I hope, be an Audacity 2.0 stable release. Until then, use the Beta release for this workflow.
Note: I'll focus on Premiere Pro CS4, because that is where I originally troubleshooted this, but something similar will work for the other Adobe products that use sound.
Workflow:
Create your mixed 5.1 surround sound audio in Premiere, and output the audio only by going to File > Export > Media, and selecting "Windows Waveform" as the output. You should only have "Export Audio" checked. Verify the format in the Summary section. You should see something like: 48000 Hz, 5.1 Surround, 16 bit. Now under Audio codec, make sure "Uncompressed" is selected. Click Okay, and Adobe Media Encoder should launch. Click "Start Queue" and your audio file will be created. You'll get an interleaved 6 channel wave file. Not all applications will open it, but Audacity will.
Note: When you mix your surround sound in the Audio Mixer, you'll place your little "Puck" where you want the sound to come from. Picture yourself in the middle of the "dish," if it's a puck, isn't it in a rink, as in hockey rink...ah, but I digress. Anyway, you'll notice that volume meters in the 5.1 (6 channel) Master section are laid out in the following order: L,R,LS,RS,C,LFE. Also, if you open a 5.1 audio file in the Source panel, you'll see the same order from top to bottom: L,R,LS,RS,C,LFE.   Soundbooth also does it that way. Ahh....Adobe...nice try.
The actual channel order should be L,R,C,LFE,LS,RS. That's the order that you'll probably have to assign in the "Audio Output Mapping" section in the properties menu to get your channels to play correctly with your surround sound hardware. L,R,C,LFE,LS,RS is also the order that interleaved files use. So after you create your 5.1 file, and open it in another audio program that displays them in the "proper" order, like Audacity, you'll see your tracks laid out from top to bottom in that order. I'm not sure why Adobe does it that way, but oh well.
Surround sound primer:
The LFE channel is not, despite popular misconception, a subwoofer channel. Bass from all the channels in a surround sound Amplifier is summed and sent out to the Subwoofer. The LFE channel is supposed to be used only for very low frequencies, to create extra ...oomph. I think that is the technical term. It is not supposed to be used for bass frequencies from the other tracks. It is for explosions, dinosaur footsteps, ...etc.
Audacity will open DVD ".vob" files, and even let you select which stream (usually Language) to open. As an example, open up a movie with some action in it like Ironman (The movie starts at "VTS_03_1.vob") and look at the LFE channel. It's the 4th track from the top in Audacity. You'll see it's silent except at parts where there is thumping AC/DC music at the Intro, or explosions. It's not used as a subwoofer channel!
With that in mind, you may have noticed, unless I'm missing something, that there is no way in the Premiere Mixer to assign an audio track only to the LFE channel. Sure, you can dial up the "Bass Clef" knob to 0.00 db, and send a mono channel's audio to the LFE channel, but there is no place to put the "Puck" that only outputs to LFE. There is one for the center channel, but without someplace to put it, your 40 Hz dinosaur footprint "Thump" is going to also be assigned to some of the other channels. Which channels depends on your "Puck" placement. This is not correct. Again, unless I'm missing something, Adobe needs to correct this oversight. We'll get back to this problem with a solution later, but first let's continue with the AC3 issue.
At this point you should have your wave file. If you want to apply any global changes to all 6 channels, you can open it in Adobe Soundbooth and trim the beginning or end, and apply effects to the entire file. You cannot, however, make changes to individual channels. Audacity will! We'll get to that later.
Encode with Audacity:
Install the software and go to Edit > Preferences > Libraries, and click on "Download" for the "FFmpeg Library." This is the library that Audacity will use to create the .AC3 file. Once installed, the library version should show up next to "FFmpeg Library Version" While the "Audacity Preferences" window is still open, select "Import/Export" and select "Use Custom Mix", this is used to export a 5.1 channel file. Now you're ready to open your .wave file from Premiere. Drag and drop it in the Audacity workspace and you should see 6 mono tracks laid out from top to bottom in the following order: L,R,C,LFE,LS,RS. Audacity will let you edit the individual tracks, unlike Soundbooth, thanks Adobe. But for now, we'll keep it simple. Set your "Project Rate" in audacity in the lower-left corner to what you want the AC3 file to be. For DVD, chose 48000 (Hz). If you leave it at 44100 (Hz) Encore won't import it.
Your almost done. Now let's export the file. Go to Files > Export... > and select "AC3 Files (FFmpeg)" in the "Save as type:" drop-down. Click the "Options..." button and set the "Bit Rate:" for your file. For 5.1 AC3 audio, probably 448. Now enter a file name and click "Save." This will open the "Advanced Mixing Options" window. This allows you to re-map the tracks to a different channel order. It should be correct, and it should show "Output Channels:" set to 6. Press "OK" and you're done.
Presto, you have a 5.1 channel AC3 file. Use that in Encore, or whatever DVD creation program you use, and when you play your DVD you'll have full 5.1 audio coming out your surround sound Amplifier. That is if you have one.
Test your file:
If you want to test your file, you can do a couple of things. Since Soundbooth and Adobe Bridge won't even open AC3 files, and Encore will open but only play the Left and Right channels in the preview, you'll have to either import the file into Premiere, or use another media player.
If you got Premiere to play your surround properly, then you can drag and drop the file into the "Project" panel and preview it from there. You will hear all 6 channels in the correct speakers, but I did notice that the quality is not very good. Maybe Premiere doesn't decode AC3 all that well. I heard some crackle that isn't in the file. How do I know it isn't just a bad encoding job by Audacity? Because I played the file with the VLC media player, and Cyberlink PowerDVD on the same computer, and also on a DVD in my home theater system with no artifacts. Maybe Premiere doesn't decode AC3 files well.
The VLC player, will play almost any file in the known universe, and at least on my computer, it automatically played the AC3 surround file, created by Audacity, with all the channels mapped correctly. That's right, full surround out my speakers with only default settings. It's a great player. Get it for free here: http://www.videolan.org/
Test with Encore:
So far so good. Now open Encore, drop the AC3 file in an empty project, throw it on a Timeline and build the project without Video, It will autoplay without a menu this way. If you set the End-Action to the same AC3 file it will repeat continuously. Either burn this to DVD-RW and test it in your DVD player, or better yet, Build the project to a DVD Image instead, and mount it in a virtual DVD   Drive with a program like "Virtual CloneDrive."
If you don't know what that is, or how to do it, it is very simple. Go to:http://www.slysoft.com/en/ and download "Virtual Clonedrive." It is free. It tricks your operating system into thinking you have another physical DVD drive. In fact, it can create up to 8 virtual drives. Now you don't have to waste time burning, and erasing DVD's every time you make a change to a project. You can build your project as a DVD Image from Encore, save the .iso file to your Desktop and "mount" it (load it) in Virtual Clonedrive. You're computer will now think you loaded a DVD into a physical drive, and launch whatever DVD player you have installed. Mine launches "Cyberlink PowerDVD" which plays the AC3 audio-only DVD in full surround sound on my computer.
Building and testing projects this way will save you endless hours. If you need to make a quick change, just "Unmount" the .iso in Virtual Clonedrive, rebuild your project to the same filename, and "Mount" it again. Instant testing!
Now, as promised, back to that LFE Channel problem with Premiere that I mentioned:
Audacity will let you modify the individual channels in your interleaved 6-Channel file. So don't put anything in that channel in your Premiere mixer. Leave the "Bass Clef" knobs at full CCW position ( -00 db ). The bass from the other channels will go to your subwoofer automatically in your Amplifier.
Now if you have some low frequency effects files, open them in Audacity. You can open multiple instances of Audacity at the same time by going to "File > New." Then, copy and paste them into the LFE Track at the correct point.
Audacity newbie Hint: Audacity doesn't yet have a "Mix-Paste" function, so to avoid altering the track length as you paste in your clips, do the following: Select the LFE track by clicking on it's info area. The info area should say something like "Mono, 48000Hz" Then press "Delete," That will remove everything from the track. Now copy and paste your clips into the track by clicking once with the "Selection Tool" where you want the clip to start, and selecting "Edit > Paste." If you need to fine tune the position of the pasted clip, use the "Time Shift Tool" to move it left or right. If you work from left to right, then you won't push clips over when you paste new ones in.
There is another way to do this by opening up new tracks, using the "Mix and Render" function, and re-ordering the tracks to maintain the L,R,C,LFE,LS,RS channel order. But that's for advanced users.

I created in iMovie, and extracted audio from one of the clips to use in the title sequence. All is well, export to iDVD and it plays OK, but when I burn the DVD the audio for the titles does not play. Any suggestions?

I created in iMovie, and extracted audio from one of the clips to use in the title sequence. All is well, export to iDVD and it plays OK, but when I burn the DVD the audio for the titles does not play. Any suggestions?

I am on a MacBook Pro with OS 10.6.7 running iMovie '11 and iDVD 7.1.1. Thanks for any input.

Optimal Audio Sample/ Bit Rate for DVD?

In using recorded material to add to DVDs for family and friends, that is, non-commercial, what is recommended formatting for the audio file? Soundbooth seems to default to 48000 Sample Rate/32 Bit but if I use that am I achieving anything over a simple 44100 Sample Rate/16 bit, since the human ear cannot detect above 20000Hz? I want the DVDs to sound as good as possible in STEREO.I don't want to cross-post, so sorry if this is wrong forum.
Thanks...

I'm not positive about this, but I think they used 48KHz simply because most professional audio/video gear uses that same sample rate. This makes it easier to tramsfer audio from DV, DAT, etc. without the need for resampling.
As for why 48 in the first place? This has to do with the Nyquist limit... and that's way too deep for this thread!
Higher bit depth is another thing all together: This represents the number of possible volume levels (dynamic range) of each sample. 16 bit has 65535 levels which is a dynamic range of 96 dB. This is fine for final delivery -- assuming that the audio was well-mastered at an appropriate volume level.
During recording and editing, however, where it is likely that adjustments to dynamics (compression, expansion, noise gating, fading) and effects will be applied, it is best to use a higher bit depth so that less information is lost (quantized) on successive transformations of the audio. It also will keep broadband noise from creeping in when the audio is amplified.
For example, if you have audio recorded in 16 bit and then you amplify it to be 20 dB louder, your dynamic range has decreased to 76 dB and the noise floor has been raised -- meaning there is a constant whitenoise "hiss" in the background.
32 bit audio is different. The dynamic range is sufficient enough so that moderately large amplification will not neccessarily result in audible background noise.
The 32 bit audio is then downsampled during mastering to 16 bit for final delivery (often with aid dithering, noise shaping, etc. to avoid distortion and give the "illusion" of greater dynamic range)
I do agree that 48 KHz is a little bit silly for DVD when the audio is AC3 compressed anyway. I am fairly certain that none of these ultrasonic frequencies will survive AC3 encoding -- even at high rates.

Mixer + Audio Interface Combination best for Logic?

I have struggled for the last year with a totally unreliable and unfixable Mackie Onyx 1220 with built in sound card ( which is completely dodgy and keeps disconnecting itself from my Mac. It is definitely not a Logic issue).
There was a thread about a mixerless set up here on the forum a while back which persuaded me to try an expensive MOTU interface but I didnt get on with it and sold it for this current package.
My question is: do any of you have a strong suggestion for make of mixer + audio interface.
I have a small studio for overdubs and need at least 4 mic inputs in the mixer and then a few channels for midi modules/keyboards etc
I was looking at the Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 +... what mixer?
Thanks for your input
Music Spirit

For impartial product advice see... the website of the manufacturer?
The best interface is the interface operated by the best engineer.
So you'll have to become the best engineer first.
http://mhsecure.com/metric_halo/

A slide show with audio created in PSE 9 plays fine in edit. When brought to Premier Elements for dvd burn, the audio no longer plays. It appears in the edit, but no audio is played. This happens consistently. What setting might be wrong?

A slide show with audio created in PSE 9 plays fine in edit. When brought to Premier Elements for dvd burn, the audio no longer plays. It appears in the edit, but no audio is played. This happens consistently. What setting might be wrong?

H-SPhoto
That Photoshop Elements 9.0.3 Update has generally been discouraged by the Photoshop Elements gurus. But, I am not going to factor that into this at this point.
This is what I would ask you to look at in the Elements Organizer 9 accessed from the Photoshop Elements 9 or Premiere Elements 9.
a. Create your slideshow in the Elements Organizer 9/Create/Slideshow/Slideshow Editor. Then use the Output option of Edit with Premiere Elements.
From your description, you are probably using the Output Option of Burn to Disc DVD which will take your slideshow directly in the Disc Menu section of Premiere Elements 9. The preferred transfer of the Elements Organizer 9 slideshow to Premiere Elements 9 Editor is by the non wmv route "Edit with Premiere Elements" not the wmv route of Burn to Disc DVD.
Let us explore if any of the above is involved in your issue and then we will decide what next if necessary.
Thanks.
ATR

Is there a way to have some sort of stereo mix audio input for mac?

Is there a way to have some sort of stereo mix audio input for mac? also so i can have a voice over?

polyglotinc wrote:
Actually, after scouring the web, I see that RogueAmoeba also has a free utility called LineIn which simply sends the audio in to the audio out and doesn't interfere with other programs like iTunes!
On the other hand, after downloading and trying it, there is a noticeable latency between what goes in and what comes out.
The latency is in the computer, not the software. Most of the latency is in the A/D and D/A conversion.
You need to connect the analog input to the analog output directly to get zero latency.
Check this page:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=368834

Best quality conversion for DVD with audio?

This has to be easier than it seems. I have an hour long video I want to compress with the best resolution for DVD, but Compressor help tells me I "must convert the video into MPEG-2 (SD and HD projects)," but this is video only.
I just want to compress this 60GB video losing as little quality as possible and throw it on a DVD with audio, but I just can't make sense of Compressor to find the best way to do this.
Thanks for your help!

Thanks for the response. I did try this, save for the Create DVD Job Action, but it just creates one audio and one video file. I'm trying the Create DVD job action now, so hopefully that will work.
Here is a screenshot of my batch. Does this look correct?
Thanks again.

Using compressor3 for DVD but no audio? Any suggestions?

I made a quicktime ref movie of 1 hour show and dragged into compressor 3 ... but no audio on quicktime?

Hi:
For DVD use you have to encode your video to MPEG2 (I think you did it) and your audio to AIFF or Dolby 2 (AC3) in separated files.
Hope that helps !
Alberto

What is the advantage of exporting mpeg-dvd vs mpeg for dvd if mpeg does not need to transcode audio

What is the advantage of exporting mpeg-dvd vs mpeg for dvd if mpeg does not need to transcode audio and also burns to dvd?

The MPEG2-DVD preset also produces a DVD spec-legal file. If you use the generic MPEG2 preset, you can too easily create an out-of-spec file that will have to be re-transcoded by En.
Jeff

My share operation failure occurs after about 5 seconds for DVD and Apple Devices. I can share to a master file, but without audio. Help?

My share operation failure occurs after about 5 seconds for DVD and Apple Devices. I can share to a master file, but without audio. Help?
It has error number -50.

If it only happens with this project, it's probable some media files have become corrupted.
Those may be render files. Make sure background rendering is off. Select the project in the browser and from the file menu, choose Delete Project Render Files; choose All from the dialog. Without rendering,try exporting.
If that doesn't work, use an optimized version of your DSLR clips. (Right click on the clips in the browser and hit Transcode.)
Russ

Mixed audio/video playlists - suggestion for Apple

Hi all,
I'm wondering if there's any way to convey suggestions to Apple about the way we'd like to see certain things work on the iPod? Specifically, I find they way my new 5G iPod handles mixed audio/video playlists to be extremely dumb: videos play only if you access them through the Video menu, but if you just go to Playlists and select a video file, you get the audio but no video.
Surely when you select a video it should play the video, and when you select audio it should play that, right? The current situation is very much not the Mac way: it doesn't "just work". I hate having to remember whether I want to play a video or audio file - I'd rather just have one unified Playlists entry, and have each file do the appropriate thing when I select it.
Searching through the Apple site, I can't find any way to submit requested features. Maybe there isn't one . . .

iPod Feedback.

Help with Format for DVD Project

I have been using FCP to create video with two tracks of audio (one instrumental & one vocal).
I want to learn about format for output to DVD. I have exported as QuickTime movie and stereo downmix so that I have one track of audio in DVDSP and when it plays on 2 speakers I have the two channels of audio - one on instrumental, one vocal. Cool. To get that I must use Custom Settings as I learned from another thread posted here last week or so.
Question #1:
+What format do I use when I enter that custom setting window for the Aspect Ratio?+ I think it should be 4:3, yes?
Question #2:
Maybe I should be using Compressor. If yes - +how do I get those 2 tracks in FCP to get into that stereo downmix format? How do I get the 2 separate audio files in to compressor and output to DVDSP?+
If in that process I end up with 1 video file and 2 audio files and import those assets into DVDSP, +Will I be able to have one audio track that has 2 channels? or will I be able to have 2 audio tracks that play on two different speakers?+
I seem to be able to get the results I want most of the time, but I am basically phutzing around and somehow God honors it - I wish I knew more what I was doing.

smidi wrote:
Question #1:
+What format do I use when I enter that custom setting window for the Aspect Ratio?+ I think it should be 4:3, yes?
Depends on the source material, if it is 4:3 then 4:3 would be proper if it is 16:9 (HDV or anamorphic would in all likelihood be the ones you are using (?) then 16:9 would be the aspect ratio
Question #2:
Maybe I should be using Compressor. If yes - +how do I get those 2 tracks in FCP to get into that stereo downmix format? How do I get the 2 separate audio files in to compressor and output to DVDSP?+
In older version of AC3 encoder (a.Pack) you could use two seperate files in and assign left right
To export each side individually you should mute one audio track then export the other then reverse to get the other file (also look at page IV-147, IV-151 of the Final Cut Pro Manual - Chapter is called Exporting Audio for Mixing in case we looking at different versions)
But if you bring the two audio files into DVD SP like that you will hear only one audio track (in DVD SP) at a time.
If you take a look at Chapter 7 Page 96, Page 100 of the PDF (at least in the PDF I just popped up, not sure which Compressor you are running, it is in the section Creating Dolby Digital Professional Files) it describes the encoding selections a bit more.
Are you running into an issue? Sounds like you are not (which is good )

Mixing audio for DVD

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