Persistence of Profiles (DNG 1.2)

Is anyone else seeing this issue: I delete a profile from my computer (rigorously gone) and it continues to appear as a viable selection in Camera Settings in RAW?
XP SP3
I also seem to have issues with making new profile appear -- I am placing them in C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Support\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles in either of the two subdirectories.
I am also mimiking the naming conventions that I see for my camera (1Ds Mark III)
Thanks

Under XP (I have the family one), DNG Profile Editor wrote the profile in the C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR USER NAME\Application Support\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles
And Adobe raw open at the same time, when you load a profile, the
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Support\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles and the
C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR USER NAME\Application Support\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles
So may be you deleted the profile from the camera raw sub directory in "All Users" but keep a copy in "YOUR USER NAME"

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Help me understand matrix profiles (DNG camera profiles)

I'm guessing it's a fairly simple question, so please bear with me as I'm working my way round trying to understand the DNG format:
After the de-bayering step, are DNG camera profiles pure 3-channel mathematical curves? I know Adobe DNG editor allows for adjustments from the Color-checker patches & there's some hue sliders etc, but do these build into RGB curves, or is it some kind of additional mild LUT (or something else) applied over the top?
Thanks!
Bert

read here how DNG (dcp) profiles are guiding (or rather how info there is being used by a code) the color transform in Adobe converters = http://wwwimages.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/dng_spec_1.4.0.0.p dfутили
also Sandy Mc... utility is useful to peek inside dpc profiles data = dcptool.sourceforge.net
may be also the following link = Dcp or Icc Profile?
and do a search for posting from Eric Chan (madmanchan) and participants like VitNovak ... here and also forums like LuLa

Different Colors and Lights during import of a converted DNG

Hi all,
i've recognized a problem if i want to import a DNG file whis was previously converted by the Adobe DNG converter.
I'm using a Pentax Camera which generates PEF-Files of about 10 MB each. I'm using the DNG converter to reduce disk space (the converted ones are only 5 MB included the JPEG preview).
Now i've seen that the pictures doesn't look like the original picture if i import them into lightroom. They are less colorful and 'colder' than the originals. This could be seen directly if i import one file in two formats (PEF, DNG) side by side.
It looks like Lightroom/ACR doesn't recognize the embedded camera profile correctly. After opening the file with the DNG profile editor (from Adobe Labs) it looks correctly and i can see, that the Pentax-Profile is used. But this doesn't do either Lightroom or Photoshop CS 4 with installed ACR.
In a different tool (Capture One), i can see also the differencies and the profile 'DNG default' is unsed. In this tool i'm able to select the camera which is used for taking the picture. If i do this, the colors look correctly as soon as i change it.
Any ideas for this? I bought Lightroom for a lot of money and i don't want to change my tool again.
Thanks

Hi Dave,
yes, thats generally what i want to do.
I have the PEF-Files out of my camera and i convert them with the Adobe DNG converter to the DNG format. The old Pentax K100D is using uncompressed PEF, thats why the pictures are twice the size than the converted DNG
If i import these files for further processing into Lightroom, they are looking similar to the originals viewed with another application (e.g. the pentax development tool) for a second, after that Lightroom is changing the preview to the settings of the Adobe Profile. Colors are much more colder and less colorful. If i try to change the profile in the developement tab, there are no visible changes to the picture.
I've downloaded the DNG Converter and Camera RAW. There are several profiles included, but i don't know how to use them with Lightroom or Photoshop CS4 (with installed ACR).
I've created a screenshot of the differencies so you know what i mean.
Screenshot
On the left side you can see the developed JPEG via PEF out of the Pentax-Software (Silkypix), on the right is the developed JPEG out of the DNG via Lightroom. Both files are without any further changes to the development process.
The left picture corresponds to the original conditions.

Where are the profiles...

i've updated to acr 5.5 and installed all the necessary profiles, dng converter etc. however, in the camera icon under adobe standard nothing shows up no camera neutral, landscape, faithful etc...
is this because i have to have these picture controls turned on IN CAMERA?
about all the new update does as far as i can tell is denote the type of camera i shot the picture with eg. coolpix 5400, 5000 or D300
can anyone explain how to get the camera profiles to appear under adobe standard?
thanks,
tws

tws25 wrote:
i've updated to acr 5.5 and installed all the necessary profiles, dng converter etc. however, in the camera icon under adobe standard nothing shows up no camera neutral, landscape, faithful etc...
is this because i have to have these picture controls turned on IN CAMERA?
about all the new update does as far as i can tell is denote the type of camera i shot the picture with eg. coolpix 5400, 5000 or D300
can anyone explain how to get the camera profiles to appear under adobe standard?
thanks,
tws
You do not state if you are on Windows (and the version of Windows) or the Mac. If you installed the profiles with the Adobe installer, they should be in the correct directory. The directory with Windows depends on how you were logged in during the installation. With my Windows 7 machine, my camera profiles are in the following directories:
c:\ProgramData\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles\
c:\All Users\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles\
And the profiles made using the DNG editor are in:
c:\users\Bill\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles. AppData is a hidden directory and you need to enable hidden directory display to find it.

Problem with DNG Color Profiles in Lightroom 5.4

Hello folks,
I recently updated from LR 5.3 to Lightroom 5.4 and since then I am having problem when using dng color profiles which were created with Colorchecker Passport. Every time I use such a profile which was created for my Nikon D 800 I get very greenish tones in the pictures.
I use Windows 7 Pro on a HP Z 210 Workstation. The monitor is a hardware-calibrated Quato which was recently calibrated.
Does anyone have this problem too and - if yes - know how to fix it?
Thanks!
Yours, Albert
PS: As English isn't my mother tongue I apologize for any mistakes in the text above.

Hello Andrew,
I do have a Nikon D 800 and a Fuji X-E1. I haven's noticed a problem with the Fuji so far. I think I will recalibrate my monitor tomorrow and see if the problem still exists.
I can supply raws and DNG profiles but I don't know where I should upload them - I suggest I could do it on my own webspace. Would that be ok?

DNG camera profile - which to trust, Adobe's or X-Rite's?

I found that dual-illuminant DNG camera profiles created with X-Rite's ColorChecker application and Adobe's DNG Profile Editor give different visual results (the profiles were produced using the same set of 6500K/2850K illuminated photos). I'm now in trouble which profile(s) to trust, I assume Adobe's is correct...
Andreas

b2martin_a wrote:
I like the DNG Profile Editor better.
Me too. The purpose of the twisting is for more pleasing color. Cool dark greens, but warmer light greens; dark midnight blues, but warmer cyany light blues, deep dark reds, but warmer light reds...
Note: this exagerates what often happens in real life: shadows are cool, sunlit colors are warmer...
The linear profiles may be more accurate, but the twisted profiles may look better.
Obviously this is subjective, and may depend on the shot and the purpose for it...
My favorite profile is a customized version of Adobe Standard created with DNG Profile Editor - a little dimmer in the upper-midtones/lower-highlights, a little less cyany blues, a little cooler greens, and slightly warmer (less magenta-y) reds.
Rob

Converting RGB to DNG without affecting color profiles

Hi guys
I'm working with the DNG SDK in C++ for some time now. I need to be able to take a raw RGB (not camera raw) and convert it into a dng file. After playing arond with it for a few days, I realized creating the camera profile drastically affects the resulting dng image.
I can't seem to produce a dng file that was identical to the input source. My picture appears very washed out and I end up using the adobe color profiler to try to bring the image back close to it's original color.
I'm trying to find a way to produce dng files without the need to affect the colors in any way, the resulting picture should be bit identical to that of the raw RGB input file.
I'm not even sure if I can do this considering the usage of the dng format.
UPDATE
I've realized that my program is loading the RGB buffer into the fData of the stage3 image object. I have a feeling I need stages1 and 2 but i'm unsure if I need to and if so, then i will probaby need a source DNG to produce those stage1 and stage2 unless I can get stage1 or 2 from stage 3 (appears it works vice versa).
I'm able to do the reverse (DNG to RGB raw) by extracting the buffer from the stage3 render. but in this case, all the metadata has been filled in by the input DNG. However, going from RGB to DNG, I don't have the metadata to fill into stage 1 and 2.

My understanding of the JPG is only middling. I thought I understood that it uses anchor pixels and either a translation table of some sort or difference mapping, using 8 bits per piece of information.
If that were the case, surely changing the translation from CMYK to RGB would be fairly simple.
In this case, the usage is Ebay and they only accept JPG, PNG (and maybe BMP and GIF, I didn't look that closely), but require RGB. I was actually quite surprised to find that JPG allows CMYK since, as you say, anyone dealing with CMYK is going to be dealing with commercial printing and few people who deal with commercial printing would play around with JPG.
I always stick to TIFF or PSD for workflow, but JPG is popular for a reason - when it comes to web, JPG is the only format that can deliver manageable file sizes with full-screen or "large" images for web. Our top level banner photo is 2590x692 and needs to be under 400kb for sane download speeds. PNG couldn't touch that. Even with the aforementioned 1800x1200, PNG is nearly 2mb, while I can maintain very decent quality with a 500kb file with JPG that works well for 'zoom in' type usage.
So there's no way around JPG. It's just annoying that the first person to touch a random selection of the pics was primarily an Illustrator user and saved *some* of the pics in CMYK mode.
It's like that old story about the farmer who didn't want anyone to steal his watermelons, so he cleverly posted a sign "None of these watermelons are poisoned", only to find a note the next day saying "Now, One of these watermelons is...".
Far more work to fix 'some' of the images compared to just doing it right the first time.
But then again, for workers like that, if you can't trust them with an easy job, you could hardly trust them with more complicated jobs...

I have downloaded DNG Profile Editor 1_0_4 and prepared a profile which I can not see in my Camera Raw 6.0 (I have photoshop CS5). Could you please give me an advice?

I have downloaded DNG Profile Editor 1_0_4 and prepared a profile which I can not see in my Camera Raw 6.0 (I have photoshop CS5). Could you please give me an advice?

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DNG Profile Editor: Can't create profile from JPG file

Guys, could you tell me why DNG Profile Editor fails to create color table using 4 colored circles ? It says "Unable to check white balance using gray patches. Please use the four color circles to identify the four corner patches of the chart and try again" even though I places four circles properly (it works with DNG files shot with my Nikon D700).
I created this DNG file from JPG file by opening it in Camera Raw plugin and saving as DNG file. Original JPG was shot on camera of Samsun Galaxy S phone. I know I'm crazy but I want to have color profile for it All patches are properly exposed after slight correction of Exposure slider in Camera Raw.
I'm using latest beta3 build
Here is link to DNG and JPG file I'm trying to use
http://www.box.net/shared/4v2rzlzjfp
Thanks!

If you convert your JPG to a DNG can you change the profile to the one you computed from the other JPG you converted to a DNG?
Profiles are not for JPGs. Profiles are for RAW files that ACR supports. You can't (easily/ever) get a RAW file from your Galaxy S and Adobe doesn’t' support that RAW format even if you could.
To see if your profiling is working, you can used the ColorCheck module from a trial version of Imatest that you download from www.imatest.com and look at the color-error.
You can also try the Read_Color_CC24.jsx script from Rags-Gardner:
http://www.rags-int-inc.com/PhotoTechStuff/ColorCalibration/

Create DNG Profile - Why does it look different in the DNG Editor vs LR/ACR?

Hi everyone, I am sorry if this has been covered before -- perhaps you could give me a link to the relevant info.
I have a client who shoots with a Leica DMR. The reds are way to saturated and magenta. We created a new camera profile in the DNG editor using a color-checker chart, shot at D6500 and Tungsten. Looks great, and Lightroom recognizes it. The issue: when we look at a photograph in the DNG editor with this profile, it looks much better. When we look at the same photograph in LR/ACR with the profile selected, the reds are still too saturated and magenta (though way better than without our profile). Why would a photo look different in the two applications, with the same profile?
As shown in DNG Editor:
As shown in LR:
Thank you for any light you can shed on this.
Laura Shoe

Here is an additional comparison further highlighting the magenta issue (amongst others). Shot with Leica R9 w/DMR(firmware1.3) using Leica Vario-Elmarit-R 35-70mm at ISO 100, f/4.8, 1/60. Manual WB=4912K, no Exp Comp.
Here is screen shot of same DNG image. Un-altered in either app., no presets, no sharpening, or noise reduction. CaptureOne (v4.8.3) on the left, and LR2 (v2.6)
Here is what the above screen shot looks like thru CS3:
you must click on image to see CS3 rendering - browser is not accurate
Anyone no what's going on?
PS the images were shot just shy of perfect focus to test sharpening in both apps, same levels applied to both images (C1 on left, LR on right). Here are the results:

Canon 5d2 DNG +custom profiles = bad preview in Bridge?

I'm using DNG Profile Editor (1.0.0.39 Beta 2) to make custom profiles for my new Canon 5D Mark II, and then using DNG Converter (5.2) plus Photoshop CS3 Bridge to process images. All on Windows XP.
After my 5D2 custom profiles were in place I noticed that the image preview in Bridge CS3 was "bad." The Bridge preview is very blurry and does not update when changes are made to the DNG file via ACR. For example, if I change exposure in ACR and click "Done" or "Open in Photoshop, the change is saved OK in the DNG file but the Bridge preview remains the original blurry image.
Took a long time to figure this out because I did not immediately associate the problem with the creation of custom profiles. Older 5D2 DNG files previewed OK in Bridge, as did DNG files from my other cameras. I even re-converted some old camera raw files to DNG and they previewed OK in Bridge. There are custom profiles in place for those older cameras.
I spent a lot of time on the usual suspects - purging cache, reseting preferences. All to no avail. Then I removed all my custom profiles and deleted the index.dat file. Ran DNG converter again to make new DNG files from the 5D2 raw. Now the Bridge preview was OK. Then I restored my custom profiles and converted raw to DNG again, getting bad Bridge previews again. Yet the previous converted files would still preview OK in Bridge.
My conclusion: The DNG converter is using camera profiles during the conversion, and in the case of 5D Mark II raw files is creating an error. I'm guessing it is putting an embedded jpeg in the DNG file that somehow confuses Bridge.
I've repeated the tests many times now. I've changed the DNG Converter "jpeg preview" preference to none, medium and full. For the 5D2 files I get bad Bridge previews on all settings. But I get good Bridge previews on my Canon 20D and Canon 1Ds DNG files regardless of any settings. Regardless of the presence or absence of custom profiles, regardless of the jpeg preview size, regardless of the ACR default settings.
So I'm hoping the Adobe team can take a look at this. Or anyone willing to confirm or deny my tests. I don't have an easy way to post a DNG file, but could email one of my "bad" ones to anyone willing to take a look.

The lack of response to this post forced me to keep testing. Now I've more closely pinpointed the problem and found an easy work around. First some background.
ACR camera profiles are stored in two places. The Adobe supplied profiles are in:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles
and your custom profiles are in:
C:\Documents and Settings\yourusername\Application Data\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles
Adobe Camera Raw, and it turns out the DNG Converter, both build an Index.dat file in this last folder. Apparently this index is built by scanning both camera profile directory trees and building a list of all the profiles it finds. It then sorts that list alphabetically by the profile name that is embedded in the file, not the Windows file name.
The "Adobe Standard" profile for a camera has a file name like "Canon EOS 5D Mark II Adobe Standard.dcp", but embedded in that file is the profile name of just "Adobe Standard". That's why only "Adobe Standard" shows up in the drop down list of profiles in ACR. And that's why "Adobe Standard" appears before "Camera Faithful", which appears before "Camera Landscape". It's alphabetical order.
Now, when you create a custom profile with the DNG Profile Editor, the "Export" function puts "Canon EOS 5D Mark II" on the front of the name. If you are an idiot, like me, you type over all that with something simple like "5D2 Bouce Flash" for the profile name. But wait, "5D2 Bounce Flash" sorts alphabetically before "Adobe Standard" and appears first in the ACR drop down menu. Sounds OK so far.
But then the magic occurs. The DNG converter uses the camera profiles. It actually accesses that Index.dat file, and if it does not exist, the DNG converter will rebuild it, just like ACR. Why it does that I can't imagine. Seems to me that the DNG converter should be simply converting raw to DNG and passing the EXIF and embedded camera jpeg along as is. What need does it have for camera profiles?
Anyhow, if that 5D2 profile is first in the list due to its alpahbetical name, the resulting DNG file will confuse Bridge. Bridge will display a fuzzy preview and will never update that preview, or the thumbnail, when you make adjustments in ACR.
But if you name the 5D2 custom profile such that it sorts alphabetically after "Adobe Standard", then all is OK. The DNG files can be previewed and thumbed OK by Bridge. So I named my custom profile "My 5D2 Bounce Flash", a simple workaround.
Now I can move on to more important things. Like generating a good custom profile for the 5D2. So far the Adobe Standard profile beats anything I've generated. Especailly if I remove that curious Point Curve which can sometimes muck up the shadows.
And now that Bridge previews are "OK" I can work on the mystery of why Bridge Previews of 5D2 DNG files do not match the previews of their equivalent TIF or PSD files. If you're curious you can see samples and read more about that here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=30748423

Lightroom 5.7 Not Showing Camera Profiles from DNG File

Hello,
I just installed Adobe DNG Converter 9.0 and converted some Nikon D7200 fles to DNG for import into Lightroom 5.7. This works fine except for the Camera Specific profiles not showing up. Only Adobe Standard shows up.
When I open the same DNG file in Adobe Camera Raw in Photoshop CS6, [it] properly shows all the camera specific profiles for the D7200. What am I doing wrong?
Here is what the develop module Camera Profile drop down menu looks like in LR 5.7
And in Photoshop CS6 Adobe Camera RAW ( ACR ) 8.7.1.311
Thanks for your insight.

gonzalu, the reason is because the profiles are installed separately for Camera Raw vs Lightroom.
If you're using Lr 5.x, then to get the extra D7200 profiles visible in Lr, you'll need to manually copy/install them. Try looking here:
C:\ProgramData\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles\Camera\Nikon D7200
and copy the contents of that folder to here:
C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles
(where you should substitute your actual username, above).
Then restart Lr and the profiles should be visible now.
(You don't need to do this step if you're running Lr CC, because the new profiles are included with that installation.)

Capture nx 2 sharpening and DNG profiles..

I recently have had an (albeit quick) fiddle with nx 2 and was wondering if anyone else had noticed what I have...
1. The sharpening in NX2 seems to yeild much nicer details and less "criss cross" artefacts.
2. The DNG profile for nikon (in my case D3) vivid does match pretty well, but has a purple tinge to it that is horribly exaggerated if you start to process the image at all. The NX rendering seems a lot more natural, or less forced.
Any advice appreciated. I would love to stay in Lightroom for everything, but looking at the files I may not.
Thanks.

ok, a little more playing and the colour noise reduction seems to play a very big part in the "poseriztion" sharpness that Lightroom is producing. If I set it to off or set lower than default (say to 10) it does help level the playing field a lot more with regards to the sharpening.

What is the correct icc profile for jpegs extracted from DNGs?

Are they always sRGB, or always something else? do they need an icc-profile assigned for colors to be interpreted properly? is the correct profile available as metadata that could be read using exiftool or such?

Profile/color space can be anything - there is a DNG tag called "PreviewColorSpace" that allows for:
0 = Unknown
1 = Gray Gamma 2.2
2 = sRGB
3 = Adobe RGB
4 = ProPhoto RGB
Good practice would be to attach an ICC profile to the preview, but I don't think there's any requirement to do so.
Sandy

Questions about DNG Profile Editor recipe code

I have been playing around with DNG Profile Editor. With a text editor I made the following recipe:
I have some questions:
1. Right now I have my control points at 60 saturation. Will using two points for each color (say 70 and 40) make my changes more consistent across darker and lighter shades of the specific color?
2. Does DNG Profile editor respect HueLow and HueHigh, are they just placeholder numbers, or are they ignored if two points are close to each other?
3. What does FeatherAdjust do? I'm guessing it controls the rate of drop off of the corrections. Is the value respected by DNG Profile editor when it creates a profile?
Thanks for your time and attention, -Bruce.

1. For now DNG-only. Here's why:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#PEOnlyDNG
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyNameDNGPE
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyPESeparate
2. Standalone for now. See above links for why.
3. Use the 'Preview Color Changes' option in the Options menu.
4. You can use 'Apply Raw Adjustments' in the Options menu to see your raw adjustments. This is __not__ recommended for building a general-purpose profile because you are then optimizing a profile with specific image adjustments in mind, rather than building a profile based more on the inherent camera characteristics.
5. True, that is a limitation of this implementation.
6. I am not sure what you mean. The Chart Wizard automatically optimizes the color patches in a test shot based on reference values for many physical charts, which is more practically useful than the numbers printed on the reference card that comes with the chart.
7. Make sure you avoid color casts in the bottom row. The PE is picky about making sure your gray patches are relatively neutral. It is an attempt to help you get a better profile.
8. Use 'Show Affected Colors' from the Options menu.
You may wish to read this page carefully and thoroughly:
documentation
It is the reference online documentation for the DNG Profile Editor and a few of the things you wish to do, such as preview all color changes, apply raw adjustments, and visualize the extent of each color adjustment, are all documented there.

Persistence of Profiles (DNG 1.2)

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