ProColor RGB or Adobe RGB ?

I have always run Adobe RGB on PS (now CS3)... have it "automatically convert".
*When I go to PS it is normally because the Output will be to a Printer in the End (and also a web version) ... (also have my camera set to Adobe RGB, "although" I always shoot RAW ... never know when you might run out of space lol)
OK, so because LR is PROphoto RGB ... is it NOW better to Export ALL my images from LR using PROphoto RGB and not have PS CS3 "auto convert" all my images to Adobe RGB anymore? (my default in PS CS3 is to work in Adobe RGB)
* YES, whenever I Print in office ... or send a Profiled JPG to a Printer SITE ... I am using a Printer ICC or converting to the ICC.
lol, have a feeling I might know the answer ... but want to confirm if it is in FACT better to be working in PROphoto RGB all the way?
And that most is doing it this way ....
HG

On 3/19/07 6:45 PM, "M Behrens" wrote:
Or is the "working color space" of LR inconsequential since you cannot get an image out of LR without seleting an embedded color space that the image is converted to? I read somewhere that ProPhotoRGB isn't really the working color space of LR, it mentioned Mellisa or Love Child. If LR has its own color space and simply converts on output. Monitor display is simply another output to sRGB, if calibrated having an ICC file to assist in conversion.
There are two color spaces to consider. One you can control, one you cant. The internal color space for all processing in LR is ProPhoto RGB using a linear encoding. We cant mess with that and theres no reason to.
We can export to three color spaces, two smaller than the internal color space (sRGB and Adobe RGB (1998)).
I dont have any issues doing everything in ProPhoto RGB 16-bit. With a totally raw workflow, thats easy. Where things get a tad dicey is using existing rendered images in LR. They have a color space before you import them. So in theory, you could be moving from sRGB to ProPhoto RGB (internal color space processing) then out to either sRGB again (which seems like a good idea) or Adobe RGB (1998) or finally, ProPhoto RGB. It would be cool if LR could somehow honor the original and output color space. So if you start with sRGB, you get sRGB (but again, theres a conversion to ProPhoto RGB/linear gamma if you do any corrections).
If you stick with 16-bits going out of LR, I doubt youll have an issue doing this theoretical sRGB to ProPhoto RGB dance but I suspect if the original color space was sRGB, that was for a reason and I suspect many want to honor that. Of course, if you start with a color space thats not one of the three spaces that are supported for export, its kind of moot. IOW, you can end up witb any color space you wish, as long as its sRGB, Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB.
Melissa RGB (Love Child RGB) is a cute name for the space thats used to represent the histogram and percentage values. Youre never really dealing with this space.
Applications dont have a color space? Well they use a color space for processing so yes. In the case of LR, the internal color space used is ProPhoto RGB as defined by this specs white point and primaries (chromaticity values) but using a linear encoding (what some would call a gamma of 1.0). Melissa RGB is the same expect its using the sRGB tone response curve (what would incorrectly be called a 2.2 gamma encoding). Then you have three options for a color space in which to encode your images upon export out of LR.

Similar Messages

PROPHOTO RGB versus ADOBE RGB-should they look the same?

satisfied with editing an image in LR, I then opened it into CS5 and converted it's profile to adobe rgb, the are marj=kedly different in color,tone,brightness, etc.
i use imac,8GB ram 27" display, os 10.6.6 and I use eye one to calibrate my monitor once per month. LR 3,3 and Photoshop CS5.
searched forums and found nothing i could clearly understand. The prophoto rgb version of image is bright and cheerful but adobe rgb version is dull but probably more accurate.
am prepared for humility so how about some advice

Bob_Peters,
you are absolutely correct.
i just read about the uses if the "assign" and "convert" variations. i will read them again.
a little humility is a fair price to unscramble thoughts.
thanks, again,
vince

Apple rgb vs. adobe rgb, fcp and photoshop

fcp 5.0.4
mac os 10.4.11
photoshop 9.0.2
in the past when i've edited jpegs in fcp (jpegs came from photoshop with color working space of sRGB), they export to QT washed-out. I think i've found a solution (afer much googling) so i wanted to ask if this sounds right to you.
in photoshop i hit 'convert to profile' and choose 'apple rgb', with Engine: 'Apple ColorSync'. when i take these jpegs into fcp, then export them to qt, they look much better, not washed out. i just wanted to check this with you b/f i go ahead and convert many many photos.
thanks!!

i've done many of these sequences in the past, using jpegs, and quality looks fine to me (for web).
if you use tiffs, does that allow for better-looking dissolves for web delivery? i know it 'should', since tiffs are higher quality than jpegs, but want to know if you've compared this factor side to side online. thanks.
do you know about the rgb question?

Photoshop in Adobe RGB 16 bit don't fill a layer with paint bucket and a color 35.40.35.100.

I create a new file in RGB profile Adobe RGB 16bit
take the paint bucket and fill the layer with a color created by selector with the following parameters 35.40.35.100 CMYK and RGB corresponds to 24.20.18 the result is a full level of color 76.73.63.9 but in RGB corresponds to 24.20.18 because the values in cmyk not match ??

Could you please post screenshots (with the pertinent Panels visible) to illustrate the issue?
Are you not aware that you cannot reliably define a CMYK color in RGB because the transformation is performed through the Profile Connection Space (Lab) and depends on the involved Color Spaces/ICC profiles (edited) and the Color Settings?

Can you show slideshow within Lightroom 4.4 in Adobe RGB color space?

Can you show slideshow within Lightroom 4.4 (not export out from LR) in Adobe RGB color space provided that you are using a wide gamut monitor which is capable and hardware calibrated & profiled to show such color space?
If this is possible, what is required to do so in Windows 8 and i7-4770 & HD Graphics 4600 platform or does LR take care of it automatically?
This is very basic question, however, I could not find a clear answer/info from LR documentation, so wish that someone can advice.

Those settings are probably stored in a plist somewhere in ~/Library/Preferences. If you can locate the appropriate file, you should be able to copy it to all the network user folders.

Color management: Adobe RGB 1998 issues in print module

When printing to a JPEG file from the Print Module, I've noticed that the "Adobe RGB" profile differs substantially from the "Adobe RGB (1998)" profile supplied with Windows.
When viewed with Photoshop, the "Adobe RGB" images are much more saturated than the image previews from the Lightroom window. Photoshop displays the same "Adobe RGB (1998)" profile for both files.
I have tried to reinstall Lightroom, but this has not solved the problem.
It seems that when selecting "Adobe RGB", Lightroom is in fact converting the image to sRGB, but embeds the "Adobe RGB (1998)" profile.
ICC profile selection: http://julianchoquette.com/fichiers/forum/lightroom-color-a.png
This will output files that look like the previews in Lightroom: http://julianchoquette.com/fichiers/forum/lightroom-color-b.png
Profile selection pop-up: http://julianchoquette.com/fichiers/forum/lightroom-color-c.png

Yeah that is completely different. My guess is that this is the bug I mentioned before. It should not happen but clearly does. It works normally on my system (I just tried again).
>Note that both dialogs do not display exactly the same name for the Lightroom provided Adobe RGB profile. http://julianchoquette.com/fichiers/forum/lightroom-export-dialog.png
That's normal and doesn't mean anything. On my computer it actually says "AdobeRGB" without the (1998) that yours shows but I believe that's simply a difference between the Mac and PC version. You can try whether it does the same thing if you select prophoto. But somebody with Vista x64 and LR 2.3 should try the same thing to see if this is a bug specific to the PC version of LR.

RAW output to an adobe rgb and srgb look identical in bridge but different in PS on wide gamut monitor.

Photoshop CS6. Wide gamut HP LP2475w monitor. Spider 3 Elite calibrated. Working space adobe rgb. When outputting a raw to Adobe RGB jpg it looks a bit whacked with color blotches/jumps in PS. The sRGB of it does not. BUT......in bridge they look identical. The adobe rgb jpg almost acts like viewing an image in a non-color aware browser on a wide gamut monitor. Like bridge shows it right but photoshop is showing it whacked out. I can't tell what is lying to me and if there is even a problem with the image. Here is a half second 2 frame gif alternating between the two from a screen cap. http://www.extremeinstability.com/hmm.gif Abrupt blotchy color changes with the adobe rgb when viewed in photoshop. And again, when you look at the two images in bridge they don't show that, they look identical.
Thanks,
Mike

I guess I now learned that Bridge only generates srgb previews. So I see them the same in there I guess. Looks like it comes down to the adobe space and jpg. Oddly enough an 8 bit adobe tiff covers it fine without breaking up. Can see the 3 on this gif. http://www.extremeinstability.com/3.gif

Adobe RGB (1998) Missmatch

When I do the following:
1) Importing an image into Aperture (eater saved in Camera as Adobe RGB (1998) or in Photoshop CS3 with Adobe RGB (1998)
2) Within Aperture: Edit with Adobe Photoshop CS3
then Photoshop gives me this Mismatch Window:
Embedded: Adobe RGB (1998)
Working Space: Adobe RGB (1998)
OSX 10.5.4 has an Adobe RGB (1998) Profile so does Adobe CS3.
How can I solve this Mismatch. The same Profile is in two locations.
a) Library: Application Support: Adobe: Color: Profiles: Recommended: AdobeRGBN1998.icc
b) System: Library: ColorSync: Profiles: AdobeRGB.icc
bc

Odd thatn it would give you a mismatch when they're the same profile.
In Photoshop go to Edit >> Color Settings
Make sure RGB is set to Adobe RGB (1998) in the Working Spaces area.
Also make sure that RGB is set to Preserve Embedded Profiles in the Color Management Policies area. This setting should stop the error messages unless you have "Ask when Opening" checked.
Thay's all I can think of.
DLS

Converting RGB images (sRGB or Adobe RGB) to 709 color space.

I'm trying to determine the correct way to convert RGB images (sRGB or Adobe RGB) to 709 color space. I can't just use the "covert to profile" function to do this because it does not produce results that fall within the 16 to 235 range that 709 dictates. I've read that you can simply use the "Levels" adjustment and change the output levels to 16 to 235. While this would clearly compress the luminance to the correct range, I'm not entirely clear if the end result would be a proper conversion (i.e. if color and gamma, for example, would be technically correct.)
I noticed that converting the profile to "HDTV (Rec. 709)" does alter the image, so I'm wondering what the result would be if I did both this AND used the levels control to compress the output range to 16 to 235.
Thanks for any feedback on this.

(1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._709
(2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._601
The transfer functions for Rec.709 (1) refer to the range [0..1] or for 8 bits per pixel [0...255].
It seems that the clipping, black=16 and white=235 has to happen after the application of the
transfer function. If this should be true, then we don't have a level compression but a level
clipping at both ends, as already for Rec.601 (2), like here:
The ICC-Profile HDTV(Rec.709) in Photoshop contains the primaries and the white point
(both like that in sRGB) and the transfer functions for [0..1], coded by a LUT with high resolution,
as found by Profile Inspector. There is no clipping.
By the way, that`s the internal profile name, I don't know the file name of the profile.
Softproofing, source in sRGB, target HDTV(Rec.709), without clipping:
With numbers not preserved: no change of the appearance, as expected.
With numbers preserved: shows the effect of different effective gammas.
Your questions are very clear and I'm not sure whether my comments help. The information
in the internet is not convincing.
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

Image Processor applying Adobe RGB profile

Image Processor thru CS4 64bit is changing my CMYK files to Adobe RGB when saving as jpg.
I have 'Include ICC Profile' checked.
It is not running any other action.
Could someone enlighten me as to why this is happening please?
And if there is some code I can change to force it to retain my chosen profile?
Hope someone can help
Thanks

I had a look at the version that ships with CS4. There is a function named 'this.saveFile'. That function has an if statement 'if ( this.params["jpeg"] )' and finially in the if statement there is another if block... ( line 1551 )
            if ( DocumentMode.RGB != app.activeDocument.mode ) {
                ConditionalModeChangeToRGB();
If you change that to...
            if ( DocumentMode.RGB != app.activeDocument.mode || DocumentMode.CMYK != app.activeDocument.mode ) {
                ConditionalModeChangeToRGB();
The scirpt should now save your jpgs as cmyk if the doc is cmyk or rgb for other modes

Changing Colour Space - How do I save an image in Adobe RGB 1998?

I wish to submit an image but it is required to be "Saved in Adobe RGB 1998 colour space".
Any suggestions?

Export it an open it with Preview and assign Adobe RGB using preview
LN

For P.O.D. Printing: How to Set Adobe RGB Color Space

Hello and thanks in advance,
(I'm using InDesign CS 5.5 on a Mac.)
I need to set the proper PDF export settings
For printing a book on demand, with color drawings inside on the text pages.
The onnly instructions that I have been able to find, say this:
"Submit your graphics in the Adobe RGB color space, withprofile embedded."
The Big Question: How do I do that ?
I know enough to start with
File --> Adobe PDF Presets --> Press Quality
Then I click on the "Output Menu"
and here's where I start to get lost.
for
Color Conversion ...
I think I should select "Convert to Destination"
for
Destination
I think it should be "Adobe RGB (1998)"
Now in order to embed this profile,
What should I select under:
Profile Inclusion Policy ?
And is there anything else I should be doing to get these inside color images printing nicely ?
Thanks again,
IthacaAuthor (aka ZorbaTheGeek, but the forum would not let me log in with my old screen name)

Virtually all digital printing is done via either PostScript or PDF. In the former case, the PDF is converted to PostScript viat use of Acrobat and in the latter case, the PDF is sent directly to the digital printer.
In either case, CMYK is in fact the actual destination color space. There are no real RGB printers!!! What is true is that non-PostScript / non-PDF printers (typically low end laser and inkjet printers as well as specialized inkjet and dye sublimation photo printers) do take in RGB via drivers and convert that to CMYK, but I don't believe that is what you are dealing with.
Our recommendation at Adobe for best printing results, whether for offset or digital printing, is to export PDF as PDF/X-4 with no color conversion using the default CMYK color space (SWOP CMYK) or if instructed otherwise by your print service provider, one of the other CMYK color spaces provided by Adobe or by the print service provider themselves. FWIW, most on-demand digital print devices do have settings to fully emulate SWOP CMYK printing conditions. Using PDF/X-4 in this manner allows the existing color content in your InDesign document to be properly tagged in the output PDF file and converted to CMYK at the digital printing device's RIP.
(It might also assist us if you can provide a pointer to the explicit instructions provided by your print service provider.)
- Dov

Photobook: Way too dark sRGB/Adobe RGB

I've just received my third photobook. We make one each year and the previous ones have been great. I already found out that it's advised to use only sRGB images. Since there are no warnings when importing with another profile or any profile-conversions, my 100+ euro book has some very dark pictures.
I'm not satisfied by the result. I'm no noob to colour (as a graphic designer) but is it so hard to check for a profile and convert it? It looks good on screen but the print looks bad.
Anyone had this issue before?

Contact Apple - http://www.apple.com/benl/support/photoservices/returns/
As to has anyone else seen this issue - yes - pretty much anyone who uses Adobe RGB has the issue of dark prints - if you want to avoid that then you have to avoid using Adobe RGB - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdobeRGB_colorspace - It is different than the sRGB color space - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGBcolorspace - and is not compatible with the Apple printing service
The sRGB color space is well specified and is designed to match typical home and office viewing conditions, rather than the darker environment typically used for commercial color matching.
Ergo - use the Adobe RGB that is designed for commercial color matching and things will be darker
expect it - it is what it is - and don't use it if that is not what you want. It is not an error or wrong - but it is different and if you choose to use it then you will get the predictable results.
LN

IPhoto export images w/Adobe RGB

I shoot in RAW (Nikon), import image file to iPhoto, do some minor edits, and export to JPG (max quality) or TIFF. When I open with Preview and do COMMAND-I, I noticed the exported file now has Adobe-RGB as the color space.
How I can export (from iPhoto) to sRGB color space?
Can I convert/re-assign the color space from Adobe-RGB to sRGb in Preview or any other appication?
Thanks

Welcome to the Apple Discussions. Where do you export the file to? Are you using iPhoto to do the editing or a 3rd party editor like Photoshop?
Is there a menu option in the camera's settings windows that lets you assign a color profile? If there is what is it set to. Does editing a photo that hasn't come from your camera result in the Adobe RGB profile?
How is your iPhoto Advanced preferences set up?
Click to view full size
If it is not checked then check it, import a RAW file, do you edits and check the profile. If it is checked, uncheck it and run the same text.
For photos already edited and exported out of iPhoto you can use this Applescript to losslessly embed the sRGB color profile in the files: *+Embed sRGB Profile-Applescript+*. You can download it from Toad's Cellar. It must be applied to image files outside of iPhoto.

Adobe RGB Monitor Problem

I own a dell 2408wfp monitor that works with adobe rgb. photoshop seems to realize that and automatically adjusts the preview colors of srgb images so that it "matches" the srgb color settings. when exporting the image and previewing them in a browser the colors are - of course - way more intense, i guess that's because the browser dosn't render them for an adobe rgb monitor. the problem: the preview in photoshop on my adobe rgb monitor dosn't look nearly like the result on a normal srgb display. colors are just wrong. i get the best (=best matching) results when lowering the color intensity in the monitor settings and look at the result in my browser.
is there any way to disable the "monitor profile" in photoshop, so that it just displays the colors "wrong"/too intense?
thx for your help!

Thanks Dag and others. I apologize if I seemed frustrated, above, especially to Lundberg02 if he has taken any offense. None was meant!
Please permit me a bit of philosphizing for a moment...
You may take all this with a grain of salt, or as the ravings of a madman. It is in NO WAY intended to accuse or label anyone. Instead I simply request you keep an open mind...
I think the one thing that seems to apply stronger to the color-management realm than most others, for some reason, is that people who have found their footing initially believe that their way is the "best" (or sometimes "only") way to actually make color-management work, because it works for them, and because it was pretty difficult to reach this level initially. Out of the goodness of their hearts they want to try to bring others to their level of understanding. They simply have not realized yet that there are still higher levels of understanding.
I only offer this, to those who think this way, because I have been there: Your next level of understanding (and there always seem to be more levels) brings the realization that there is no "one" or "best" way to work - it depends on needs. It is at this stage that you finally realize that all those settings and features represent either the minimum set (or possibly even still a subset) of all the controls REALLY needed to get things right, and that quite possibly others will want to choose different ones - and even different workflows - than you have chosen. It is at this level where one begins to see why what seemed like poor terminology at first was actually chosen.
The next level beyond the above is a maturing of the understanding, over time, where one learns to sometimes change settings to meet changing needs, and one begins to actually exercise all the features and controls in daily operations to better meet his/her goals. It is at this level that one finds oneself revisiting ideas tossed out early on as "invalid" or "wrong", such as setting up a system to use a standard profile instead of a custom one. This is the level where one starts to understand how half-baked the whole system of color-management is, taking into account the OSs, browser and the web, and things beyond just the color-managed apps you use, because of its history.
The next evolutionary step - what has been referred-to above as the "Fraser" level - finds one developing one's own custom profiles, such as linear (gamma 1.0) working spaces or those with special gamuts, to suit particular needs not covered by what's already available. It is at this level that one can develop properly color-managed software, and innovate in the color-management realm (e.g., marry color-management into OpenGL, which has none).
Is there a next level? I haven't reached it, but I believe there must be one. I've not stopped learning.
At all levels, people at lower levels will tend to think any advice you may give is suspect, or outright wrong. Just try to be tolerant - one day they'll understand too.
My best advice:
Color-management is no more important than, say, Angry Birds. It's just stuff that happens on a computer. So don't take it too seriously and try not to get upset over it. And keep climbing the steps!
-Noel

ProColor RGB or Adobe RGB ?

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