RAW vs JPEG colours

Hi,
I've been having a sort of a problem or a question for a long time already.
Namely, are the colours of JPEG and RAW quite a lot different? To me RAW colours look very unnatural and weird (If you are interested and it is of any help, then I can later add some straight-from-the-camera RAW and straight-from-the-camera JPEG images). What actually makes me think, there is sth. wrong with my computer's or programs' settings, is the fact that when the thumbnails of RAW are first previewed (I have tried various programs like Lightroom, DxO, Capture One etc), they look pretty much like JPEG-s, but when I click on them, the colours of both the large-scaled images, as well as the thumbnails, become flat and very off.
I have thought it is because of incorrect colour management settings, but I myself can't find any solution to it either.
So, has anyone else been having similar problems and have you found a solution, or is it just me with a silly problem?
I searched for similar topics, but I couldn't find any at the moment.
Thanks

You just have to remember that RAW images have no processing done to the in
the camera. It is the raw data from the sensor. JPEGs and Tiffs (if you
camera supports that) do have processing done to them things like
brightness, contrast, saturation, sharpening not to mention I suspect other
things that we have no use control over in the camera menus (most cameras
let you set the amount of sharpening, contrast and the like). So the
difference you see between the RAW image and the JPG is as if you took that
RAW image and made adjustments to it. Besides having the ability to control
these basic adjustments with RAW you also get a much wider range of editing
capabilities with RAW that you don't get with JPG. With JPG when a highlight
is blown or a shadow is totally black there is more times than not not much
you can do about it, that data is lost and gone forever. However, with RAW
you can far more often than not recover the image data because it hasn't
been thrown out.
RAW is a lot more work, not doubt about it. That is one of the reasons I has
taken me so long to move away from JPG or TIFF. However, with Adobe
Photoshop Lightroom or Bridge and ACR it has becomes a ton more easy to
process the several thousand RAW images that I shoot when I go out to
photograph. I think it is just part learning curve and part having the
software that makes the processing a lot less work.
Robert

Similar Messages

RAW vs JPEG questions

2 Questions: Is there an advantage to importing raw vs jpeg into aperture?
If importing both, which to save as master? Why?
Thank you,
katy

It will depend at lot on the camera (possibly lens) and how much you like the JPEG rendering it delivers.
There are lots of thing to consider and the link Allan provided is a good background for understanding the different implications. But the landscape is changing and there are some areas that are perhaps a good subject for further discussion.
In general terms, there are three areas where raw may be the only way to salvage an image that was captured poorly:
Bad Exposure
Poor Choice of white balance
Excessive Noise Reduction
If your image suffers from any (or all) of these, then the JPEG is probably ruined and can't be recovered (although it may be made usable at lower resolutions). So if you or your camera are prone to producing images like these, raw is a safety net that can save your images.
Excessive noise reduction (which destroys detail) was the main reason I started using raw, as some premium compacts always threw away too much detail, even at their lowest noise reduction settings. Exposure and White balance were under my control, but not the noise reduction.
But in recent years, the JPEG processing of many cameras have improved enormously and it is creating a bit of a dilemma.
Sensor efficiency has led to lower noise, and camera JPEG engines (CJEs) have become more sophistocated, delivering excellent results straight out of camera.
With lower noise has come improved dynamic range, and CJEs have introduced dynamic range optimisation to allow more of the shadow and highlight data into the final image using custom tone curves for different scenes.
Colour procsessing is continually being tweaked with many cameras (Fuji and Olympus in particular have a very strong signature look that many people enjoy want to preserve).
For some users with good computer knowledge and image processing skills, there is still a motivation to use raw as they are able to use the tools to get the very best out of their images and produce superior renderings. Although even among these, I know of quite a few who admitted they were struggling to produce renderings from Fuji X100 raws that were as good as those from Fuji's CJE.
But for many people, being sat in front of the computer tweaking their images, and being expected to learn the tools and techniques to do so, is just not their idea of what photography is about. So these improved CJEs are offering them real benefits to get on with shooting, and use the computer primarily for organisation and publishing, with perhaps some of the more simple editing; crop, straighten, etc.
But in the last year or two, in some areas the CJEs havent just been catching up, they're actually moving ahead, at least over third party converters like Aperture, Lightroom, C1 etc (the manufactures own raw processing software should always be able to match and beat the CJE).
Most of these areas can be grouped under the heading "Lens based Optimisations". From automated removal of distortion, CA, vignetting and moire, to the new sophistocated sharpening algorithms that are based on the manufacturers actual lens performance data to apply exactly the right kind and amount of sharpening to each part of the image based on the lens used and the aperture setting.
Even if the converters provide all the tools to compete with this level of sophistocation, unless it can be fully automated, it still could become a case of more effort for less accurate results.
For my own workflow, I have recent found combinations of camera settings that deliver very pleasing out of camera JPEGs and so have begun shooting Raw + JPEG, importing both to Aperture with JPEG set as the master. This means many of my images are now near 'publish-ready' immediately on import, but for any images where I messed something up, or just don't like the JPEG results, I've still got the raw to fall back on.
Andy

The raw portion of a referenced master got separated from its jpeg pair when I was relocating originals. Can I recombine the raw and jpeg pair?

Hi, I'm a fairly new Aperture user and have just started storing my photos on an external hard drive. An error message appeared when I was relocating originals of a project. It stopped relocating at one image, saying that the jpeg file did not exist. I found the raw file name under the new project folder that I was relocating it to, but it's jpeg pair did not move. The file names look identical except one ends in .JPG and the other as .NEF. I tried to combine originals, but I got the same error message and when I looked at the files the raw now had (1) attached to it, whereas the jped didn't. The Aperture window started to close unexpectedly many times. I tried Repair Permissions and Repair Database and that seemed to stop Aperture from closing unexpectedly, but the raw and jpeg pair are still in separate folders. How can I get them paired up again or does it matter? I'm using Mac OS X and Aperture version 3.4.5.
Thanks,
sophie

If you don't take care when choosing the location for referenced images, you can create some problems for yourself.
From an operational perspective 'Managed' images means Aperture will take care of the image file storage for you, 'Referenced' means you will take care of it yourself.
There are a number of things that may have happened but this is what I think is most likely:
If you shoot a lot of photos with the same brand of camera, eventually you'll end up with duplicate file names, for example two different files called DSC_1234.NEF. If you attempt to store these in the same folder yourself, worse case scenario is you may inadvertently overwite one of the files. If you use Aperture to relocate, you'll get one of the files with a new name of DSC_1234 (1).NEF.
So your first step is to figure out what these files really are. Are they duplicates, or are they different files with the same name, and do they each have a matching .JPG
Aperture has the tools to fix up the problem, but you need to confirm what the problem is first.
If you don't have many of the (1) files, it may be worth continuing your 'relocate' to subfolders - making sure your subfolder hierarchy doesn't cause duplicate names to be stored together. Then when everything else is stored correctly, address the problem images by moving them to where they should be, with the right name and the JPG/NEF pairs together.
You can then search for missing files in Aperture and use the 'Locate Referenced Images' to reconnect them with Aperture.
Andy

How do I process multiple files and turn them from raw to jpeg

How do I process multiple files and turn them from raw to jpeg. Ive tried and it seems to go through the files but doesnt seem to process them or store them in the selected folder

Yes that was the first thing I did. Then I used the process multiple files and selected a new folder to put them in and selected use open files and selected to turn them into jpeg. The images flash on the screen like they are being processed, but the folder never appears in library. Is it possible because there are a couple 16 bit files open that this corrupts the task. Do I need to create the folder first. Will elements not create the folder on its own.
Thanks Vince

I have uploaded raw and jpeg files directly from my camera to my iPad (latest version) I have processed them in snapseed and want now to transfer back to my pc for further processing. How can I do this will a flash drive work?

I have processed my raw and jpeg files on my iPad using Snapseed . What format are they saved in on the iPad and how do I transfer them back to my pc where I use photoshop elements. Can I use just an ordinary flaws drive with the USB adaptor? Thanks any help would be appreciated.
Lynne

The camera connection kit can only be used to import photo/video files form a camera, SD card or USB flash drive. You can't import other types of files. You can't export any type of files using the camera connection kit.
Importing Personal Photos and videos from your iOS device to your computer.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4083
 Cheers, Tom

Help with managing RAW and jpeg images and installing iphoto 9

Greetings: Fist, let me make the neophyte apology and plea - I'm sorry, I should have come here first; I didn't and now I need your help.
I have just purchased a macbook pro (still in its box) with updated software for my older imac os x. I have a number of Canon related photo editing programs (that came with my 40D digital SLR) and Adobe photo elements 6 for mac on the imac. Following some erroneous advice I have made a complete mess of the pictures folder's content by trying to delete images directly from that folder (there are now 6000+ images in the folder, many of which are duplicates(?). Most of the images are not tagged or labeled and some have been organized in/by iphoto (I corrupted the iphoto's library structure very early on by disrupting and editing its images - which might explain why iphoto had a difficult time 'finding' and displaying some of my photos). The picture folder now holds jpegs, smallRAW images (a Canon 40D photo format) and various duplicates of the orignal images - (some of the duplicates don't display as images, but as jpeg logos, which, when opened contain duplicate image or are completely black) The first time I downloaded RAW images into iphoto 6 the RAW data displayed as a black image. When shooting in smallRAW on the Canon 40D, the camera produces a jpeg image for 'easy viewing and editing in the camera' but it looks as though iphoto 6 made duplicates of the jpeg and the RAW data and stored them in different locals in the picture file. In an attempt to get the number of images down, I have been trying to delete them from the picture folder. (My daughters both download images rather indiscriminately in hopes of 'editing them on the computer' which inevitably does not happen) and there is a lot of experimental bracketing of images - shooting raw and different Camera formats etc., all of which need to be cleaned up before I proceed.
Sometime in the not-too-distant future I would like to have iphoto 9 running on my imac with a clean library of images and a seamless way of downloading, editing and storing images (including the RAW data).
The macbook pro is for my highschool-aged daughter, who will run iphoto 9 but not have any RAW image data on her system. She would like to copy some of the old iMac's images to put into her own iPhoto 9 library (probably using a disk, email or on-line photo service - ideally, I would like to be able to copy and remove a number of those images from my HD and give them to her for the macbook)
A few questions and queries: Can I 'dis-able' iphoto 6, while I delete images (RAW and jpeg) from the picture file? (and is this even a good idea).
Once I have edited the # of images down to a reasonable size, should I re-launch iphoto 6, rebuild the iphoto library and then update to iphoto 9 or skip v6 and rebuild with v9?
And now for the 'how stupid is this guy question' - I really had planned to purchase an external backup; but between new the macbook, car repairs and braces it has never come to fruition. So, I have never properly backed up my images. What is the bare-bones, least expensive method for me to do this? I'd even consider burning everything to disks if that works. I can't afford the $ to purchase a new external hard drive right now (really). Budget is set aside mid-November for one though.
I've been looking through some other discussion boards and it looks like I'm not the only one having RAW image issues. I know that shooting smallRAW with the companion jpeg is probably not helping things but I take my camera equipment on extended canoe trips - and we like the ease of on-the-spot editing with this format.
Thanks in advance for your help - Mark

Terence, Is the picture folder the primary source for the images or does that data reside somewhere else?
If you gathered them there, then yes.
I really don't want to have to go through 14,000 images looking for the pictures that I want to keep (or is that my only option?).
Only you can decide what you want to keep.
Why does the computer keep making copies of the images and filing them under date and events?
That's how iPhoto works. It's not a problem usually, only you did go in there and make a problem, and now we are trying to fix it.
You advise not to muck around in the picture file via preview,
No I don't. I advise not to much around in the iPhoto Library Folder.
but if I download images through a program other than iPhotos - image capture or adobe aren't I doing that anyway?
Adobe what? Adobe is a software manufacturer who make many excellent applications, you need to be more precise. And no, if you import photos with Image Capture or “adobe” no you are not interfering with the iPhoto Library Folder.
Can you edit a base image file somewhere and remove it from the HD without iphoto making a copy of it and storing it somewhere else?
This is stunningly easy. Don't use iPhoto. Use an image editor.
I want to look the negatives, decide which ones I want and throw the rest away. Can that be done or am I way off course?
Yes, and iPhoto (or similar apps) make this really easy.
Hook up your camera. Import the pics to iPhoto. Go through the imported pics. Trash the ones you don't want. Then process the ones you do. But you must learn how to use iPhoto to do this successfully
To trash: put the pic in the iPhoto trash and empty it. This removes the file from iPhoto and the Hard Disk.
Process it: If you want to use another editor: You can set Photoshop (or any image editor) as an external editor in iPhoto. (Preferences -> General -> Edit Photo: Choose from the Drop Down Menu.) This way, when you double click a pic to edit in iPhoto it will open automatically in Photoshop or your Image Editor, and when you save it it's sent back to iPhoto automatically. This is the only way that edits made in another application will be displayed in iPhoto.
Regards
TD

Best practice for photo format: RAW+PSD+JPEG?

What is the best practice in maintaining format of files while editing?
I shoot in RAW and import into PS CS5. After editing, it allows me to save as various formats, including PSD and JPEG. PS says that if you want to re-edit the file, you should save as PSD as all the layers are maintained as-is. Hence I'd prefer to save as .PSD. However, in most cases, the end objective is to share the image with others and JPEG is the most suitable format. Does this mean, that for each image, its important to save it in 3 formats viz RAW, PSD and JPEG? Wont this increase the total space occupied tremendously? Is this how most professionals do it? Pls advice.

Thanks everyone for this continued discussion in my absence over two weeks. Going through it i realize its helpful stuff. During this period, i downloaded Aperture trial and have learnt it (there's actually not much learning, its so incredibly intuitive and simple, but incredibly powerful. Since I used iphoto in the past, it just makes it easier.
I have also started editing my pics to put them up on my photo site. And over past 10 days, here is the workflow I have developed.
-Download RAW files onto my laptop using Canon s/w into a folder where i categorize and maintain all my images
-Import them into Aperture, but letting the photos reside in the folder structure i defined (rather than have Aperture use its own structure)
-Complete editing of all required images in Aperture (and this takes care of 80-90% of my pics)
     -From within Aperture open in PS CS5 those images that require editing that cannot be done in Aperture
     -Edit in CS5 and do 'Save', this brings them back to Aperture
     -Now I have two versions of these images in Aperture - the original RAW and the new .PSD
-Select the images that I need to put up on my site and export them to a new folder from where i upload them
I would be keen to know if someone else follows a more efficient or robust workflow than this, would be happy to incorporate it.
There are still a couple questions I have:
1 - Related to PS CS5: Why do files opened in CS5 jump up in terms of their file size. Any RAW or JPEG file originally btn 2-10 MB shows up as minimum 27 MB in CS. The moment you do some edits and/or add layers, it reaches 50-150MB. This is ridiculous. I am sure I am doing something wrong. Or is this how CS5 works with everyone.
2 - After editing a file in CS by launching it from Aperture, I now end up with two versions in Aperture, the original file and the new .PSD file (which is usually 100MB+). I tried exporting the .PSD file to a folder to upload it on my site, and wasnt sure what format and size it would end up with. I got it as a JPEG file within reasonable filesize limits. Is this how Aperture works? Does Aperture allow you options of which format you want to save the file in?

Adobe Camera Raw (ACR), Jpeg Files and Metadata

I have been using Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) with my Canon EOS 30D, an 8 MP camera, for a while now. I would make non-destructive changes to the raw file (.CR2) in ACR where the changes would be stored in an adjoining .xmp file. Jpegs of the unedited and edited camera raw files would be created so I have a before and after versions of the images that can be viewed anywhere.
Now I have a Canon EOS 5D Mark III, a 22 MP camera and the raw files are much larger. I’m looking at using camera raw on jpeg files for some for my more casual photo shoots in order to save disk space. From what I have read, I can use ACR on jpeg files and that the changes would be stored in the metadata in the jpeg file. Is there a way for the changes to be stored in an adjoining .xmp file so that the original jpeg file is not modified, much like it is done with the .CR2 files?
I am using Adobe Photoshop CS5 on a Windows 7 machine. All software is up-to-date.
Also, I have found that Adobe’s camera raw handing is different than the raw handling of the photos using Canon’s software (DPP). Is there a way to make ACR closer to what Canon’s software does?
Thanks,
Mike

Probably not going to happen.
I agree, Canon's color is better than Adobe's in general - I just didn't know how good the Camera Standard profile might be for your particular camera. I had hoped maybe they'd made it a very close match.
Some time ago I got a very nice genius-level Camera Raw forum member named Vit to make me a custom profile that exactly matches the Canon color for my 40D, even to the point of emulating the way Canon fits the entire gamut of the captured image into the sRGB color space, so I'm more than happy.
Others might tell you that you're silly for wanting the color to match, but I understand completely your position - if you do get that kind of feedback just ignore it and push on.
Once you've set up a default to use Camera Standard, you may well be able to tweak the dozens of color controls to bring the Adobe default into line with the Canon color. I did that once before getting my special 40D profile, comparing embedded raw file JPEGs with the Camera Raw preview display with a variety of images - it was tedious but effective.
Best of luck.
-Noel

Understanding Camera RAW with JPEGs

I usually work on the design end, hence I rarely work (professionally) with files straight-from-camera. I get the stuff after the photographers are done with it.
However, that is slightly changing and so I have a question about the Camera Raw plugin in Photoshop. In particular, processing JPEG images with it.
If I understand correctly, it does not actually modify the JPEG image itself, but merely saves the correction information as metadata in the JPEG file, which is then re-constructed when the JPEG is re-opened.
This would (assuming I understand it properly) make it a "safe" way of tweaking JPEGs as unlike most JPEG operations, no resave/quality-loss is occurring. Only the metadata is changing.
Am I correct or have I horribly misunderstood this process?

I can appreciate that - my own plug-ins all do their work in linear space as well for the advantages thereof. However, it's not as if one can't get good results with the normal Photoshop tools, which for some reason seem to be out of favor... One can convert to a linear profile to work on it in Photoshop proper, for example (though one has to craft or find a linear profile to use for that, as none is provided by Adobe). I do my astroimage processing that way.
I might change my workflow to involve Camera Raw where JPEGs are concerned IF Camera Raw could be set to write its metadata back to a sidecar file or the central database instead of rewriting the JPEG file. I understand that it is not rewriting the actual image data, but I just don't want it writing back to my JPEGs at all.
-Noel

My Photoshop Elements 12 is downloading two copies of each photo and there is no Automatically Stack RAW AND JPEG Option in the Download Box.

My Photoshop Elements 12 is downloading two copies of each photo and there is no Automatically Stack RAW and JPEG Option in the Download Box.

Anwesha,
Yes.
I have clicked on it, selected “Stack” and all is now fine, with both versions of the photo readable by “unstacking”, using the side arrows !!
Thanks for that.
Regards,
Wayne

I burned my first iDVD andpicture quality is not good. Originals are excellent. My photos are shot in raw or jpeg, both are not sharp when I view my DVD. I viewed it on my 1080 dpi tv and my new apple computer.

I burned my first iDVD andpicture quality is not good. Originals are excellent. My photos are shot in raw or jpeg, both are not sharp when I view my DVD. I viewed it on my 1080 dpi tv and my new apple computer.

There are many ways to produce slide shows using iPhoto, iMovie or iDVD and some limit the number of photos you can use (iDVD has a 99 chapter (slide) limitation).
If what you want is what I want, namely to be able to use high resolution photos (even 300 dpi tiff files), to pan and zoom individual photos, use a variety of transitions, to add and edit music or commentary, place text exactly where you want it, and to end up with a DVD that looks good on both your Mac and a TV - in other words end up with and end result that does not look like an old fashioned slide show from a projector - you may be interested in how I do it. You don't have to do it my way, but the following may be food for thought!
Firstly you need proper software to assemble the photos, decide on the duration of each, the transitions you want to use, and how to pan and zoom individual photos where required, and add proper titles. For this I use Photo to Movie. You can read about what it can do on their website:
http://www.lqgraphics.com/software/phototomovie.php
(Other users here use the alternative FotoMagico: http://www.boinx.com/fotomagico/homevspro/ which you may prefer - I have no experience with it.)
Neither of these are freeware, but are worth the investment if you are going to do a lot of slide shows. Read about them in detail, then decide which one you feel is best suited to your needs.
Once you have timed and arranged and manipulated the photos to your liking in Photo to Movie, it exports the file to iMovie as a DV stream. You can add music in Photo to Movie, but I prefer doing this in iMovie where it is easier to edit. You can now further edit the slide show in iMovie just as you would a movie, including adding other video clips, then send it to iDVD 7, or Toast, for burning.
You will be pleasantly surprised at how professional the results can be!
To simply create a slide show in iDVD 7 onwards from images in iPhoto or stored in other places on your hard disk or a connected server, look here:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1089

Camera RAW ruining JPEGS, cant disable

I have CS3.
Certain jpeg files now ONLY open with Camera Raw in PS, no matter what I do. I just want to open them regularly, but I cant get ACR to go away, and ACR is corrupting the color somehow when it opens them this way.
Under preferences, (in both PS and Bridge) I have disabled 'prefer camera raw' for jpeg, but that still doesnt help.
The problem is the color gets ruined when opening them with ACR, no matter what color space I choose from within ACR when developing them, the files get a washed out appearance, and once opened this way, cant be fixed via normal methods, ala 'converting to' or 'assigning' the right color profile.
Note that other jpegs not opened with ACR before seem fine and unaffected, they do not open via ACR in PS, they just open normally in PS, and I see the expected 'color profile mismatch' if relevant.
Also note that the files that are getting ruined by ACR look OK in Bridge and from within the ACR preview window itself, but once opening into PS, they look totally different.
Can someone please tell me how I can stop ACR from ruining them or just disabling ACR for good? Thanks. The files are essentially unopenable as they are right now, and I dont see any 'clear' develop settings options as later versions of PS seem to have.
Thanks!

Thank you!!!
From your screenshot I realized I did not have those options available, so I upgraded from camera raw 4.0 to 4.1, and sure enough, they included those options in the update.
Once I unchecked them, the notorious ACR did not open!
I still wonder why the color gets corrupted by ACR, but am not the biggest fan of ACR anyway, so will not use, long live Lightroom, LOL.
Do you know, is there a 'limit' to the level of ACR I can upgrade to from within CS3?
Anyway, Thanks again for saving me,

Does Aperture work on my RAW or JPEG files?

When using Aperture only one image appears, although both RAW and JPEG are stored originally. What am I actually editing, RAW or JPEG? How can I tell what is happening?
Thanks

Hello, that depends on how you imported your RAW-jpeg pairs.
With the above setting the RAW will be used, with "jpeg as master" the jpeg.
To change your setting after import, see this post:
Re: How do I work on my raw files and not the jpeg files that currently dis
May 8, 2010 5:48 PM
Regards
Léonie

PSE 7 RAW to JPEG

I seem to remember in the past I could convert pictures in the RAW format to the JPEG format using PSE 7. Now all I can do is convert the RAW to a JPEG 2000 format. I have XP. Windows Media player won't open a JPEG 2000 file. Any ideas why PSA 7 doesn't have a RAW to jpeg converte?

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I cannot download photos in raw and jpeg into aperture from canon 5d mark111

I cannot load photos from canon5d mark3 into aperture in raw and jpeg, any ideas?

Don't believe the RAW's from that camera are supported yet. See OS X Lion: Supported digital camera RAW formats

RAW vs JPEG colours

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