Recovery connected to noise reduction rendering

Just noticed when I crank the recovery slider up (ACR 4.4 Profile), Lightroom stops rendering fit view with color noise reduction applied when I get to 55 in the develop module. i.e. at recovery of 55 and greater, no color noise reduction is applied, 54 and below, color noise reduction is applied.
Not sure what to say about it - just an interesting observation for the hyper-inquisitive...
R

Yeah, it does tend to dull a photo, however with ACR 4.4 (a linear profile) it can be cranked all the way to 100 without screwing up the hues, and I often crank it all the way up as a test and then lower to taste... - that's when I noticed the unexpected connection with the color noise reduction.
PS - I sometimes use recovery to recover highlights (and dim the light tones as side effect), then use the tone curve to brighten the light tones back up.
Summary:
- With ACR 4.4, I feel free to use recovery 0-100 - often in conjunction with the tone curve to compensate for side-effect repression of non-highlight tones. With non-linear profiles, I strive for highlight-recovery=0 in most photos, due to unfavorable hue shifting.
- For some reason, Highlight Recovery amount is affecting Lightroom's decision about whether to render color NR in the fit view.
Cheers,
Rob

Similar Messages

Is Lightroom really better for noise reduction than Adobe Camera Raw?

That's what I keep hearing from Lightroom users (who don't use Photoshop or barely touch it).
Which is better? or are they exactly the same? I'm not referring to a specific version, but I am personally using the latest Cloud versions of everything. I haven't tested it visually, I'm just now getting familiar with Lightroom.

Given the same version number, Lightroom and Camera Raw have the exact same sharpening and noise reduction. The only differences in ACR and LR are usability or UI aspects, the controls and rendering are the same.

How do PS CS3 Noise Reduction Filters compare with dedicated third-party plug-ins?

Am I missing something by not installing a dedicated Noise Reduction application into my PS CS3? Can Neat Image, Noise Ninja, Noiseware Pro, etc. do something that the PS CS3 Noise Filters can't do? Do these third-party aplications do it better?
Since I like flashless photography, and I generally carry with me small-sensor compacts when I travel, I'm frequently confronted with the problem of digital noise. I've always wondered how the third-party noise reduction applications perform in comparison with the Photoshop Noise Filters. I hope someone in this Forum has been able to acquire direct experience on this topic and will be kind enough to share this experience with us.
Kindest Regards,
Conrad

Conrad,
ACR 4.3 has better NR (noise reduction) than previous versions and can handle NR in most normal situations. However, available light photography with a small pixel sensor may require more NR and the specialized plugins such as Noise Ninja, NeatImage, and NoiseWare Pro can do a better job. I have all three and they do an excellent job, but I currently use NoiseWare most of the time.
Here is a demonstration of NoiseWare vs ACR NR, using 100% crops of an image taken with the Nikon D200, 1/320 sec at f/2.8. The image is reasonably sharp at normal viewing conditions, but has quite a lot of luminance noise. It was rendered with ACR and the settings were exposure +0.85, brightness +60. One thing you learn early in this type of shooting is to expose to the right to reduce noise, but this may conflict with stopping action and reducing camera shake. More exposure would have helped this image, and one should try to avoid exposures requiring this amount of positive exposure adjustment.
The results are shown below, followed by some discussion. Other comments are welcome. Color noise is not prominent in this image and I left color NR at its default.
ACR, No sharpening, no NR
ACR, Luminance NR 53, no sharpening
ACR, No NR, No sharpening, NoiseWare default, no sharpening
Noise reduction and sharpening are antagonistic processes. It is important that NR is applied before sharpening--you don't want to sharpen noise. Following NR there is an inevitable loss of detail, and some sharpening is necessary to restore the detail, but this also brings back the noise. One can use masks and blend if sliders in Photoshop in both NR and sharpening to mitigate some of these effects, and Bruce Fraser discusses the details in his excellent book on sharpening.
If you use an add on such as NoiseWare, you should turn off luminance sharpening in ACR. In doing so, you lose all those nifty sharpening features that have recently been added to ACR. I leave color NR at the default. It has a minimal effect on detail.
In adjusting the NR in ACR at 100% viewing, I estimated that a luminance setting of +53 was optimal. Beyond that, blotchy artifacts appear in the image.
For NoiseWarePro, I used the default settings with no sharpening. The NR effect is dramatic, but detail is lost and some sharpening is needed. This could be applied in NoiseWare or in Photoshop, perhaps with a plugin such as PhotoKit Sharpener. Personally, I have found that PK does not work well with this type of image because it bring back noise and produces artifacts.
In all of these examples, sharpening is needed following the NR. One could try to use surface masks to keep sharpening in Photoshop with the unsharp mask away from the edges. However, I find it is difficult to get a good surface mask, and I don't take the trouble.
For now, I use the sharpening built into NoiseWare. I don't know how it works internally, but it does have a slider for detail protection, and you can play with this to get the best result. It would be best to have the robust NR of the add ons built into ACR much like NoiseNinja is built into Bibble Pro. However, this is an ACR forum and I would expect that ACR is the preferred raw converter of those who frequent this forum.
After expending this much effort on the post, I hope to get some helpful feedback.

Camera raw filter 8.x artifacts (not posterization, not banding) when using noise reduction

hi. i use camera raw filter for frequency separation, using noise reduction. And these strange lines keep appearing and messing everything up.
What is this and how do i get rid of them. Maybe it's a bug of some sort? It looks like ACR is breaking the image to pieces and working with them individually and combining them back.
If the sliders are not 100-0-0, the lines reduces, but is still there

I am seeing the same thing in a random test image someone else posted of buildings at night. The discontinuity becomes more apparent if you maximize the sharpening but it is not there in the saved result so appears to be the difference between rendering for the display and rendering for output:
The output TIF does not have it:

Noise reduction not working on Lightroom 5.4 MAC

I have experienced that the noise reduction that I apply to my pictures is only visible in the develop area of the software. As I switch to library it disappear and the same happen if I export the picture in any kind of format.
I post a screenshot where you can see a sample picture with the desired noise reduction applied (on the right) and the same picture as it shows in the library area (on the left). Switching between this two areas (library and develop) results like a noise reduction toggle.
Dropbox - example.tiff
Is there a way to solve this bug?
Thank you.

Usually Develop-Fit view is crispier than Library or Export, when there has been enough noise-reduction added to an image to make it seem smooth, and people complain that sharpening is not being applied; however, in this situation through extreme noise-reduction settings, an artificial coarse texture has replaced the fine-grained noise which seems to manifest differently in Develop Fit view, and the complaint is that Library has no NR applied.
In more detail, there are two issues, here, both of the user's doing, not LR's:
1) A user-expectation that the Develop non-1:1 zoom is accurate regarding Detail settings. It is not. For years there has been an exclamation-point warning on the Detail settings section that says to view things only at 1:1. If a user doesn't see or ignores this warning then their expectation is wrong, as in this situation.
2) The Luminance Noise-Reduction Detail slider has been increased from the default of 50 to the maximum of 100. This has the effect of converting the fine-grain noise into a course angular texture, which is easily visible at reduced sizes except in the inaccurate Develop Fit view.
In the following side-by-side at 1:1 zoom, the lefthand panel is as per the user settings with the Lum-NR-Detail slider set to 100, while the righthand side has the Lum-NR-Detail slider set at the default of 50, with all other user settings remaining the same:
I would summarize what is occurring not as a bug but a different response of the inaccurate Develop-Fit rendering to a different coarseness of noise that is caused by an extreme setting of the Lum-NR-Detail slider. Since there is no resizing and no sharpening in the Export settings, I don't think the 1/3 bug has anything to do with anything.
It would be nice for the original poster (OP) to describe exactly what is wrong, after knowing that the Develop view is in accurate if not viewed at 1:1.

Returning to ACR for noise reduction, while in Photoshop

Is there a shortcut back to noise reduction in ACR ~ while working on an image in Photoshop?
Of course if it's opened as a smart object you can return to raw but there are heaps of things you can't do to a smart object...
The onlty way I can think of is to save and close the file and then open it (again) in RAW. And that's a bit of a round about way to do it.

NanceeArt wrote:
The onlty way I can think of is to save and close the file and then open it (again) in RAW. And that's a bit of a round about way to do it.
That's the only way and also note that going noise reduction on a rendered image vs a raw image is suboptimal...you really want to be doing the noise reduction BEFORE you render the file. A raw Smart Object would be useful in this situation.

Improvements: Noise Reduction Shadow Details, Geometry Correction & More

Loving what I'm seeing so far. Experimented with this last night and was very pleased what I could do in 10 minutes:
http://frontallobbings.blogspot.com/2012/01/lightroom-4-beta.html
Almost negated any need for HDR bracketing. I'm impressed. That said there's a few things I'd like to see still:
1. Noise Reduction shadow weighted areas. It would be nice to selectively control noise in only areas that really need it. Especially in terms of shadow recovery, only that area needs the noise reduction applied. It would be nice to have a dark/light slider to apply to that specific function.
2. Geometry Correction. This needs a serious update guys. It fixes a few things, but there's many other applications that do it way better (DxO Optics for one). It's a little too basic and could use better keystoning controls. I get better results from DxO Optics rather than use a Tilt-Shift lens.
3. The publish modules are still very antiquated and limited. No control over profile selection and still no way to update folders from previously published images. You guys need to really hire Jeffrey Friedl to do your modules. He's done amazing work with most of his plug-ins.
Good work so far with this version, looking forward to the release.

terrylam wrote:
1. Noise Reduction shadow weighted areas. It would be nice to selectively control noise in only areas that really need it. Especially in terms of shadow recovery, only that area needs the noise reduction applied. It would be nice to have a dark/light slider to apply to that specific function.
This, please!
Selective NR with brushes it great, but trying to use that to do NR in shadows is a real pain. Just a slider to weight NR to shadows would be a real boon. Ultimately it would be nice to have a full set of NR controls for shadows with a threshold slider to adjust when it kicks in.

Lightroom Noise reduction versus DPP

I have been playing with DPP for al little while because the EOS 50d wasn't supported until a few days ago. DPP has some kind of intelligent support of NR depending on the ISO of the photo. If I analyzed it whell it is supporting the NR level of the camera itself.
Is it possible to do this kind of NR in Lightroom also?
I know I can make defaults for an ISO level, but it would be very nice if Lightroom is able to get this kind of information from te RAW file. The same accounts for the sharpening, but this might be tricky.
Regards,
Olaf.

>I read on the internet that Canon and Nikon don't want to share that kind of information. Stupid! They don't sell software, so it shouldn't matter to open the information of their RAW files.
Well Nikon sells their Capture NX software. They don't give it away with their cameras (except for some short running promotions) like Canon does.I do believe Canon charges for updates. You would think that it would be in the camera maker's best interest to make their files as readible by anybody as possible as it makes their cameras more attractive to buyers, but they have a very strange worldview in which the RAW files are their files instead of the photographer's and that their software is by definition better in processing their files than any third party because they know all the secrets. They actually say stuff like that! Quite astonishing. The only thing we can do is to tell them what we think of that bull.
>Lightroom doesn't apply any luminance nr by default. This also accounts for the higher ISO levels?
Even at zero there is some luminance NR I think. There is also noise reduction and sharpening inherent to the tuning of the demosaicing algorithm. I think the tuning between more sharpness and less noise is dependent on ISO.
>Are there any more options which are depending on the ISO of the photo by default?
Where do you get this kind of information? I can't find any about this in the online help of Lightroom.
I think some intricacies in the color rendering also respond to this but that's probably the extent of it. Thomas Knoll (check the credits in Lightroom to see who that is) and others on the Lightroom/ACR teams have posted on this forum about these things as well as some people in the know. So I 'm giving you second-hand info here but you should be able to look back on this by searching for posts by Thomas and others. Doing this is very instructive anyway regardless of the subject.

Are sharpening and noise reduction working in 1.0?

I went to see if they'd made any improvements in the noise reduction area, and can't get any of the noise reduction or sharpening settings to effect the image at all. The settings definitely aren't making any changes to the visible image in normal or 100% view.
I tested this on an ISO1600 image to make sure there was visible noise.
Is anyone else seeing this lack of effect?

The server may think it's serving that page to some user-agents, but it ain't working for any over here:
$ curl -o file.jpeg -v http://learningtosee.org/aux_photos/sharpening_test.jpg
* About to connect() to learningtosee.org port 80
* Trying 204.16.138.5... * connected
* Connected to learningtosee.org (204.16.138.5) port 80
> GET /aux_photos/sharpening_test.jpg HTTP/1.1
User-Agent: curl/7.12.2 (i386-pc-win32) libcurl/7.12.2 zlib/1.2.1
Host: learningtosee.org
Pragma: no-cache
Accept: */*
< HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found
< Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 21:31:06 GMT
< Server: Apache/2.0.52 (CentOS)
< Vary: Accept-Encoding
< Content-Length: 311
< Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 311 100 311 0 0 2159 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 0
* Connection #0 to host learningtosee.org left intact
* Closing connection #0
$

Noise reduction won't display properly in LR 3.4.1 Develop Module

I encountered this issue first time last night - noise reduction will not show in "Fit" view of the Develop module for pictures that have a graduated filter applied as well. Having said this,
- The pictures display correctly in Library Loupe view (Fit and 100%)
- The pictures display correctly in Develop module when zooming in to 100%
- The pictures display correctly in Develop module when clicking in history on Luminance smoothing (first picture). Selecting the next step in the history, Add Graduated Filter, displays the picture without noise reduction (second picture - I tried on a virtual copy the other way round - first have a graduated filter and then apply noise reduction, but doesn't work either. Noise reduction just won't display in Develop module / Fit View once a graduated filter is applied as well.
Has anyone else seen this behaviour or, even better, found a solution? I already tried purging the raw cache, no success. Working on Windows 7 / 64bit.
Thanks,
Andreas

Jeff, I had difficulty understanding this same issue as presented at the link I posted above. With my low-noise Canon DSLR RAW images I simply couldn't see the onscreen rendering issues they were talking about. It even appeared this might be unique to Mac platforms and Windows 32 bit OS, since my Windows 7 64bit system didn't appear to have this issue.
Following suggestions to shoot a picture at -4 F stops and then increase exposure by +4 F stops in LR helped me get a better understanding:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/3857767#3857767
Granted this is an extreme shooting situation, but it helps demonstrate what happens when using exposure, fill and HSL sliders to increase exposure significantly (+2 to +4 EV) in specific areas of the image. Now you have noise that will be visible in smaller exported scaled images, perhaps even those sized for posting to the web.
The issue is at lower ISO settings (camera specific), view sizes less than 1:1 have no noise reduction applied (Mac & Windows) or sharpening applied (Mac & Windows 32). There appear to be platform differences in the way sharpening is applied, because on my Windows 7 64bit system sharpening is applied at all ISO and all view sizes including "fit" view, but noise reduction is only applied at higher ISO settings – the same as all others have described. I wanted to point this out since it is one of the reason I had difficulty duplicating what the OP was seeing.
We know sharpness and noise reduction settings interact with each other, so it is important to have both applied in the onscreen image to determine their affect. Using images with additive Exposure, Fill and HSL slider settings approaching +2 to +4 EV, there is simply no way to see accurate rendering without both noise reduction and sharpness applied at all view sizes, including “fit” view. This can occur with low ISO images, not just at some predetermined camera specific high ISO where noise becomes predominant.

Noise Reduction output Issue

Every time I apply noise reduction in LR3 Beta 2 the adjustments appear in the preview window in LR but as soon as I export as jpeg the processing dissapear. It only happens with noise reduction - all other processing stays on the image. Any Help?

I do notice a difference between the image quality in the Library vs. Develop and noticed that shortly after i had posted the most recent response. I am just a little confused by your post when you say that the effects are only displayed on a 1:1 or higher scale. When i apply any form of NR the previewer - even at FIT - still shows adjustments happening. Is it simply rendering what it thinks may be adjusting or can it not comprehend the larger scale so it just smooths out some details?
And even at that, if i am able to achieve a desired effect in the previewer of Develop - shouldn't Lightroom be able to export that image that is it showing me? I am confident that i am able to reproduce the desired look in photoshop - basically through some smoothing - but the ability to create that in LR would save a lot of time.
I digress i am not very confident in my use of Lightroom as i have only been using it for a brief time - switching primarily from aperture i find lightroom a lot easier and more efficent.

Noise reduction filter???

Does anyone know of a high quality FCP-compatible video noise reduction filter for HD footage? Is there even such a thing?

All of the software that works with this does this... soften the picture.
The controls are precise however, and I've used it with really low light footage to advantage.
Denoise is a video noise reduction filter plugin for FCP google it... render is awfully slooooooo. Color renders faster. free download of demo with big red x thru all footage I think. Lots more controls.
Jerry

Audio noise reduction in iMovie 09?

I have some video shot with a Nokia N95 mobile phone. Some of the audio is recorded directly with the phone, some experimenting with connecting an external microphone. The sound recorded with the external mic is better but I still get a lot of noise / hiss. I think that with iMovie 06 (which I no longer have installed and can't download from the Apple site) there was a relatively simple noise reduction filter. I can't see how to do the same with '09. Any suggestions on how to (rapidly) clean up audio from mobile phones (or from video shot with digicams, for that matter)?
And if anyone has any tips or hardware hacks that would allow me to improve the sound while filming with a mobile phone I would be very interested to hear them.
Many thanks!

I have the same problem. The best imovie is and the only solution to this problem is the imovie HD. I can't belive what's happening with the imovies... What's happening with apple software? What's happening to apple??

Noise Reduction/ Integrating into FCP Workflow

Why does STP render out the entire masterclip when I'm processing only a few seconds of that for noise reduction?
So let's say I'm happy with STP rendering out that entire 20 minute masterclip of audio, then why doesn't STP/FCP then reflect the noise reduction on other clips in the FCP timeline taken from the same masterclip???

Bill-
You shouldn't be losing keywords just by virtue of running a batch in PS- double check the image's info after Export and before batch operation.
Next, make a PS action to do this. Then, from that have it make a droplet. Place droplet in LR folder for such, then make a custom Export preset in LR that calls in the droplet at the end of the choices. (Choose sRGB for your color space)

B8080 (10 HD+) How I can OFF "microphone noise reduction" at video-recording?

With my Yoga 10 HD+ (model B8080) I have very bad sound than I recording (and play) sport-disco competition (with modern loud music) than I seating at scene (not under big dynamic loudspeaker).
B8080 can't record this music...
I listen only trash (crunch and sound holes).
How can I to OFF "microphone noise reduction"?
to test recording without reduction.
Thans for help!

Yes, you are right - you do already have most of the parts to the answer of your question.
For clarity here's the whole procedure:
1. Make sure you have cloned your drive properly, using Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper!*, and had set the clone to be bootable in the relevant utlity's preferences.
2. With the external drive still connected via FireWire, restart the PowerBook.
3. Upon hearing the startup chime, press and hold down the 'option'/alt key until you see the Startup Manager.
4. Select the icon of the drive you want to boot up from.
5. Click the 'right arrow' icon to boot up from the drive you have chosen.
*SD! has an option to automatically reboot from the external drive after the cloning process.
15" 1.25GHz/12" 1GHz PBs, 2xPPC Mac minis, 12" iBook G4, Mac OS X (10.4.7) Cube, 2xTAMs, iPod 4G & nano 2G, iPs, AEBS, AX

Recovery connected to noise reduction rendering

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