Rendering HDV in AE 7.0?

I currently still have AE 7.0. I'm trying to render a High Def project, and I'm having a difficult time figuring out all of the render settings. The only way I've found so far to create a High Def output that I can import into my NLE is to use QuickTime. But it creates completely uncompressed video at ~10GB / minute.
Is there a way to create HDV or some other equivalent compressed HD output in AE 7? Or do I need to move up to CS4 to get anything other than this uncompressed format?
Thx

>Is there a way to create HDV or some other equivalent compressed HD
>output in AE 7? Or do I need to move up to CS4 to get anything other >than this uncompressed format?
Neither. HDV is generally read-only in AE as are several other of those camera source formats. Only Premiere can generate and transcode some of them natively. In your case you should simply consider using Quicktime with a different CoDec or switching to MPEG 4/H.264 with a sufficiently high data rate, though in AE7 the latter is only supported via Quicktime, too.
Mylenium

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Can't view un rendered HDV 1080-30 on time line

I captured HDV video I shot on my JVC GY HD200 to Final Cut 5.4. When I drop the sceen on the
time line it has to be rendered once I render if I move it then it wants to be rendered again.
This is driving me crazy... I just want to edit the project then render it. The only way I can
view the video is to scrub the time line. HELP...Please

Steve, I am taking a shot in the dark here but I think that you may be new to FCP and video editing? Am I right?
I think that the most helpful thing that I can do is to point you to some resources. Start with the big box of manuals that came with your software. They can also be found in the help menu. Study how to set up FCP. You want to look at things like anamorphic, HDV, viewer.
If you don't find a solution there then search these forums for anamorphic, and HDV.
It's not that I don't want to help you, it's the give a fish or teach to fish kind of thing.
K

CS5 renders 24p HDV as alternating lines?

I'm having issues rendering HDV 1080p24 sequences containing Sony V1U 1080i 24pSCNA footage. If I render a timeline preview or render out a sequence through Adobe Media Encoder the rendered footage looks pixelated as contrasting detail flickers/shimmers. It looks exactly like Premiere Pro is rendering each frame by alternating between fields. I have tried turning on Maximum Render Quality and Maximum Bit Depth in both the sequences and Adobe Media Encoder, as well as changing the 24p Conversion Method in Playback Settings, to no avail.
The original footage Premiere captured from tape looks perfectly fine when played back in a third-party media player. Aside from some tearing on movement it also looks fine played back in Premiere using the Mercury engine accelerated by an NVIDIA GTX 470. The issue only occurs when a preview is rendered or the sequence is rendered out through AME (even when previews have not been generated or used for AME's rendering).
I've checked the interpret footage dialog, but there doesn't appear to be any useful options. Changing the footage's framerate to 23.976 merely slows down the footage, so PPro must be performing reverse pulldown on the fly in the sequence.

No, I'm editing in an HDV 1080p24 sequence. I wanted to edit and export as 23.976p, so that's why I chose that preset.
According to the preset's description, it is "For editing with IEEE1394 (FireWire/i.LINK) HDV equipment. 16:9 progressive-scan 1080p HD video at 23.976 frames per second. 48kHz audio."

Problem playing back HDV from FCP HD

FCP 5.0.4
I am doing my first HD project and am experiencing a problem I cannot solve.
Using both a Sony HDV HC1 and Sony HDR FX1 as playback devices, I cannot get the video to play back from FCP using HDV1080i60. Under Video playback, the options for the HDV are grayed out for the only firewire options:HDV(1440 x 1080) 30fps and 25fps. However, the option exists under Print To Video, and when chosen, will send HD1080i60p video to the cam>hi def monitor.
I have tried every possible setting on both cams to find a solution. Using DV NTSC I can get a work around. The cam's will both capture and control via FCP. Thanks for any advice.

No HDV decks will allow you to monitor external video from FCP through them UNLESS they are in the recording mode. So they just don't support this like DV devices do.
You need to look at a card for this. Least expensive would be the Intensity cards from Decklink. I like the MXO from Matrox too for this too... does more output, but has no input... I use an Io HD for that... and turn that slow rendering HDV to ProRes.. much faster rendering, and visually lossless.
Jerry

ProRes vs HDV, actual advantages?

We have been capturing and editing in HDV. Alot of heavy compositing, motion work, etc. We have been setting the render control to ProRes while working within an HDV timeline.
I have seen a lot of people who capture ProRes right off the bat, and do all their work in ProRes. There are claims that you get better effect handling and editing efficiency by staying in ProRes.
Have there actually been any tests out there that prove I should work entirely in ProRes? rather than just render my HDV timeline as ProRes?
There are so many opinions out there that it is hard to decide what I should do. I have done tests with ProRes vs HDV and I am not noticing drastic differences in working with the two. Yet, when I read on the boards, there are tons of people saying ProRes yields better effects and render times.
I understand the technical issues as to why ProRes is the better format for post-production (long gop, i-frames, etc etc)....but I'm just not actually seeing much of a difference while working between the two formats!
Can anybody convince me with some facts as to why I should work in ProRes as opposed to a ProRes rendered HDV timeline?

I switched totally from HDV to ProRes last year, including even switching to AVCHD cameras (I had a Sony V1U, and now have two Panasonic HMC-150s).
The advantages for me were huge. When shooting HDV on tape, I almost never had a complete one hour MiniDV tape without at least 1 or 2 dropouts. Shooting AVCHD to SDHC cards, I've completed hundreds of hours of footage and never had a single frame dropped.
I log and transfer to FCP using Pro Res right from the start. No waiting for 'Conforming HDV'. I can put my footage on a timeline and start editing right away; much faster and smoother throughout the whole process.
The only disadvantage I can see to ProRes are larger files, but as mentioned above, storage is cheap these days.
I'm not suggesting you should go as far as switching your entire acquisition format (cameras, etc.), but I would at least try capturing your HDV footage as ProRes for one short project, and see if you notice any differences in speed and/or smoother workflow while editing and rendering, etc.

Local Edit Proxy VS Rendering on Server

My projects are shot on HDV, uploaded as productions to FCSvr with edit proxies set for ProRes 422 proxy. Many of these projects contain Photoshop graphics, usually "builds" of bullet points or logos. Will I see a difference in image quality, specifically the graphics, between rendering locally with checked out edit proxy files and outputting the project to compressor on the FCSvr, which is, as I understand it, working from the original HDV files and original Photoshop layered files? Does FCSvr modify Photoshop files that are downloaded for local editing in any way?

Sorry I haven't replied sooner. Holidays.
1) FCSvr doesn't process stills that are used in FCP projects, it only makes note of their link to the project so it can check them out if necessary. When FCP is addressing a still it will either be the original on shared storage or a copy of the original that was downloaded upon checkout of the FCP project from FCSvr.
2) I doubt there is much of a quality difference between HDV and ProRes Proxy. All ProRes codecs are 10 bit and are designed to not degrade across multiple transcode passes. If anything, ProRes Proxy is capable of higher image fidelity than the 25Mbps MPEG-2 used by HDV. However, since you are starting with HDV, you don't gain anything in the upsample to ProRes. But you certainly don't lose anything either. Maybe some quantitative image analysis would show slight differences, but I bet you can't see any with just your eye.
3) It should be a wash. I'm pretty sure FCP renders HDV as ProRes anyway (might be wrong, but there are definitely other long-GOP codecs FCP handles that way). Either way, the fact that ProRes won't degrade the image data of the HDV means that using either one as a source should yield functionally identical output quality. FCSvr doesn't do any rendering. All it does is catalog media and hand that media off to Compressor for any transcoding. Any rendering of a composite will take place via FCP based upon whatever media it is linking to.
Honestly, if you don't see a difference in image quality looking at your HDV and the ProRes Proxy derived from it side by side, I see no reason why you shouldn't just do all your work and outputs in ProRes. Save the HDV as a source and a backup, but I don't think you are missing anything keeping your workflow in ProRes after ingest and transcoding.

HDV playback devices

I'm looking for a playback device to use for my edited footage of 1080i HDV (sony HDR FX1). I've been reading many forums and until Blueray or HD DVD arrives the options seem to be D-VHS, a HD DVR or more recently I came across the JVC ProHD DVD PLAYER (SRDVD-100U).
Does anyone have any experience of the above? in particular the JVC seems to be a good solution. One problem is that my footage is in 50hz (european version of HDV) and want to ensure compatibility.

No HDV decks will allow you to monitor external video from FCP through them UNLESS they are in the recording mode. So they just don't support this like DV devices do.
You need to look at a card for this. Least expensive would be the Intensity cards from Decklink. I like the MXO from Matrox too for this too... does more output, but has no input... I use an Io HD for that... and turn that slow rendering HDV to ProRes.. much faster rendering, and visually lossless.
Jerry

Aspect Ratio is Officially Jacked Up

Forum,
I read some other threads on this similar problem, but this one seems like even more of a maze than some other stuff I've come across. So any help would be greatly appreciated!
I exported my entire rendered HDV,24p, ProRes 422 sequence back to FCP from Color. Some of it has maintained the same aspect ratio and some of it is now an entirely different ratio. Could this have anything to do with my latest QT 7.5 update? I'm sorry if this post is looks similar to others, but judging from the posts I've been reading, the project settings and media formats seem to be the crux of the matter.
With that being said, it would probably take me forever to find someone with the identical problem that I'm facing.
The craft of editing is such a whacked up mess, yet we all love it!
Von

JPo,
I don't understand why there would be mixed resolutions if I shot everything the same. There was originally a 3:2 pulldown but I removed it prior to sending to Color.
Under Item Properties>Format, all of my clips are labeled as 1920x1080 despite all the different aspect ratios that are being displayed from clip to clip.
My suspicion is that it has something to do with the geometry room because I wrote in a previous thread about a problem with aspect ratios changing while I was in Color. The advice given to me at the time was not to do any scaling or rotating in Geometry, but make those changes in Color.
So, I made sure to reset all of my geometrical changes back to there original state. Although the issue with different aspect ratios (in Color and FCP both) was not fixed.
I think what I might have to do is send a copy of the original ungraded project to Color and regrade the whole thing minus any scaling or rotating. What do you think about this plan?
P.S. I'm thinking that using Geometry for user shapes in conjunction with the secondaries room should be okay just as long as there's no scaling or rotating. What do you think?
Thanks for helping me as my project has come a long way and I just can't wait to knock this grading out!
Trey

Problem playing back dvc pro video

Hi,
I'm currently having hugh problems in playing back DVC pro 50 format in Logic Pro. The logic Pro i had is in a mac with 2.26 duo core intel with 8g of ram. It seem that the video never play in the right speed. It's a problem on the new release of logic Pro?
Thanks.

No HDV decks will allow you to monitor external video from FCP through them UNLESS they are in the recording mode. So they just don't support this like DV devices do.
You need to look at a card for this. Least expensive would be the Intensity cards from Decklink. I like the MXO from Matrox too for this too... does more output, but has no input... I use an Io HD for that... and turn that slow rendering HDV to ProRes.. much faster rendering, and visually lossless.
Jerry

OpenLDAP proxy vs. Directory Proxy Server?

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gee, that's not a loaded question, is it! :-)

Sorry I haven't replied sooner. Holidays.
1) FCSvr doesn't process stills that are used in FCP projects, it only makes note of their link to the project so it can check them out if necessary. When FCP is addressing a still it will either be the original on shared storage or a copy of the original that was downloaded upon checkout of the FCP project from FCSvr.
2) I doubt there is much of a quality difference between HDV and ProRes Proxy. All ProRes codecs are 10 bit and are designed to not degrade across multiple transcode passes. If anything, ProRes Proxy is capable of higher image fidelity than the 25Mbps MPEG-2 used by HDV. However, since you are starting with HDV, you don't gain anything in the upsample to ProRes. But you certainly don't lose anything either. Maybe some quantitative image analysis would show slight differences, but I bet you can't see any with just your eye.
3) It should be a wash. I'm pretty sure FCP renders HDV as ProRes anyway (might be wrong, but there are definitely other long-GOP codecs FCP handles that way). Either way, the fact that ProRes won't degrade the image data of the HDV means that using either one as a source should yield functionally identical output quality. FCSvr doesn't do any rendering. All it does is catalog media and hand that media off to Compressor for any transcoding. Any rendering of a composite will take place via FCP based upon whatever media it is linking to.
Honestly, if you don't see a difference in image quality looking at your HDV and the ProRes Proxy derived from it side by side, I see no reason why you shouldn't just do all your work and outputs in ProRes. Save the HDV as a source and a backup, but I don't think you are missing anything keeping your workflow in ProRes after ingest and transcoding.

Fatal error when saving HDTV project to tape

Hello,
when trying to save a HDTV project (50 min.) to tape PE3 starts transcoding (HD activity observed), but after appr. 30 seconds I get the following error message:
"A fatal error occurred: [..\API\Inc\BE/Audio/AudioSubBuffer.h-105]. The program has to be terminated"
PE3 then crashes completely, not being able to save the project.
I'm using Windows XP SP3 with latest updates. There are 20 GB free space on my HD. I am able to save the project to a HD folder as a *.m2t file without any problems.
Any idea what is causing the error?
Heinz

The reason I suggested was that standard DV-AVI files sometimes give this error on burning, and it can be resolved by first exporting to DV-AVI and then burning this file. I am not aware of the source of the issue but this error message has appeared a couple of times previously in the forum.
Regarding the 2GB of HD space, this might be a file generated while conforming the audio. You should start a new folder for each project. then when you have completed the project you can delete the folder and clean up the temporary files generated for the project.
See this FAQ:
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bbc8177
One re-rendering pass will not affect quality too much. I have found that PE3 is good at re-rendering HDV. Best way to check is to view both files and see if you can determine any difference.

Less rendering with DV vs HDV?

how much more processor intensive is HDV? i am thinking of shooting HDV then downconverting it from the camera to my macbook pro for editing. should i edit in native HDV or will DV be much faster (less rendering, and better for use in Motion also)

Yes ... but .. time code capture capture of HDV isn't always frame accurate with DV timecode capture, so you may need to muck about with the sequence, not just for resolution changes (titles may not end up in the same place, once you convert the sequence from DV to HDV)
For a more archival project, like a wedding (if they don't divorce over getting the 70" plasma TV, they will want the happy day on it in the end, even if that's 5 years from now) I would work in HD, create a HD master (on tape, or disk) and then, as a separate project, using the mastered footage, make a SD DVD from that.
I've been promoting this HDV to DV workflow with this tutorial:
http://www3.telus.net/bonsai
Other have differnt methods of achieving the same thing, not least, going out to HDV tape, then re-ingesting as DV - which is much faster than my method.
However, I made that walk through for FCP 5.0.3 (i.e. before the Intel compatible 5.1 version) so, it may be out of date. In particlar, compressor may now 'just work' when creating DVD encoding from HDV timelines.
I plan to revisit the subject in a week or so, when I have my new machine up and running with 5.1.2

Hi, I can't figure out why I can't render on my timeline. I highlight the segment hit "Apple-R" and it gives me a weird message about "conforming HDV video...." and the bar goes as far as 60-66% and holds there forever. It never renders even partially.

Hi, I can't figure out why I can't render on my timeline. I highlight the segment hit "Apple-R" and it gives me a weird message about "conforming HDV video...." and the bar goes as far as 60-66% and holds there forever. It never renders even partially.

Yes, I know. I have been working with HDV for some time. I am wondering why it doesn't render when it needs to.. the red and bright-green lines are above, and I've set the render settings such that ANYTHING I highlight and hit apple-R will render. But its not rendering at all.

Slow rendering in Macbook Pro, FCP, HDV. Solutions?

I have edited a few short films in dv-pal, but since I recently bought a HDV camera (Sony HDR-FX7) I want to edit next film in HDV 1080.
I have a Mac Book Pro 2,33 with 2 GB RAM and Final Cut Studio.
What can I do to make the editing process speedier?
I have heard of AJA Io HD and it’s probably the perfect choice if I could afford it. Is there any more inexpensive alternative?
Or can I change my settings in Final Cut for faster rendering?
/Thanks

"Your problems with capturing are another issue altogether."
I really do appreciate all the great input from you who know so much more about this software than I do' .. it's a life saver. I'm here because my computer blew up, and was replaced by an Intel machine.
If that hadn't happened, I probably wouldn't be here .. I would be somewhere with my camera.
Be that as it may, I have no real trouble capturing .. I'm sure if I had a couple hot young girls on a beach in Hawaii .. and cut it just right .. you would pay 29.95 to see the rest. Just kidding? .. Thanks much for the insight .. Best.Chris

Export HDV rendered as ProRes 422?

I've searched the forum and can't find this topic specifically addressed, so here goes a new question.
Sequence is HDV (1080i60) which is set to render ProRes 422 (there's a reason for that, below as a note).
It's quite a long sequence (an hour and 20 minutes) with almost everything color corrected (just the FCP color corrector). So when I finally rendered "all", it took its own sweet time basically rendering everything. I checked the render files, and sure enough, they are ProRes 422, 1440x1080i as expected.
When I go to export, if I use "current setting" (not self contained) it writes everything again as an HDV file (kind of expect that) and doesn't use any of those costly (time and space) reference files; if I specify ProRes 422 like the render files (not self contained), is dutifully writes new files as well.
Is there any way to export this as a "reference" movie and have it use the render files it's already spent a bunch of time making? Either export takes about as much time to do as that rendering did originally on my G5 2.5 Quad: about 4 hours or more. Not to mention doubling the disk space requirement.
Note: the reason I used ProRes 422 rendering was that if I render in HDV (what I usually do), there are severe quality problems with parts of the movie; it seems that keyframed scaling and cropping cause a problem with HDV when it renders. INterestingly, the preview is fine, and ProRes 422 rendering is fine. and when I say quality problems, I mean extreme blockiness: like 16x16 blocks: it's awful and I think it is a bug (which I asked about here some time ago and go zero answers).
Eddie O
Message was edited by: Edward A. Oates
Message was edited by: Edward A. Oates

Everything that has already been rendered (prores 422) wants to get rendered again. I haven't determined what happens if I go ahead and let that render take place and then export from the ProRes 422 time line since the render takes a long time. Remember that the only reason that I need to do all of this is because if I render in the HDV time line using the sequence codec, I get problems that are there even if Quicktime opens the HDV render files. It's kind of a serious bug in FCP 6.0.2 which has not been addressed (I have sent it in as "feedback" some time ago).
I edit in HDV because it is fast enough for me and I don't "conform" (that is, render) until the end when I about 95% sure I'm done. So I use only 13GB/hour instead of about 50GB/hour. There are only a couple of places where I need > 1 stream (transitions between camera shots, a very few picture in picture effects).
I guess maybe the work flow for me (given my preference to save disk space for now) will be to edit in HDV until I get what I want, and then instead of "conforming," copy the sequence to a ProRes 422 time line and let that render. Hopefully, if I export that as a "reference" movie, it will use the render files as the reference files.
Thanks,
Eddie O
Message was edited by: Edward A. Oates

Rendering HDV in AE 7.0?

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