RGB colors become dull in Acrobat PDFs

I'm using CS6 and when I create a PDF, the RGB colors appear much duller than the original source file. The shift is about (if not exactly) what you would see if you converted an RGB document with bright colors to CMYK.
I'm on a Mac using the latest update to OS X. My typical process for creating a PDF is by starting with Photoshop JPEGs and using the "Combine Files in a Single PDF" function, or by exporting an InDesign document (with RGB art) directly to a PDF.
If I open the exported PDF in either Adobe Acrobat Pro (10.1.4) or the latest version of Adobe Reader, the bright, saturated RGB colors in the original document appears noticeably dull in the PDF.
I've experimented with several different Color Settings to no avail, including different RGB settings (sRGB, Adobe RGB (1998), etc.). Currently my settings are using Bridge to Synchronize my Color Settings across my CS6 apps (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat) and have confirmed they are all reporting a Synchronized state.
My overall Color Setting is "Monitor Color" (though I've also tried others, including the default North American General Purpose). My RGB Workspace for all apps is set to the Profile of my Dell monitor, which was created with Apple's built-in calibration tool (not the best, I know, but wouldn't account for a difference as dramatic as this.) And my Color Management Policies under these Syncronized settings are all automatically set to "Off".
As a test, if I export my RGB InDesign document to a JPEG and open that file back in Photoshop, the colors are fine—unchanged from the original look as they originally appeared in Photoshop. It's only when I go to Acrobat that the colors shift to a duller version.
I keep looking in Acrobat preferences for a "Display PDF with Embedded Profile" or something along those lines, but Acrobat Color Management settings are the same as all my other CS6 apps.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
R

Yes, I too suspect OS X 10.8 being the problem.
Apple's Preview shows the colors fine. I also opened the PDF in Photoshop - fine.
I even converted the colors in Acrobat X to a different color space (ProPhoto RGB). Still looks bad in Acrobat, still looks fine everywhere else. Also single images in the ProPhoto RGB PDF sent from Acrobat to Photoshop look fine and show the correct profile.
Just like you I happen to see this the first time on Mountain Lion. It also seems to be connected to the monitor's profile somehow. Here's why I think so:
Photo Mechanic by Camerabits (www.camerabits.com, a professional image viewing and rating program recently had issues with colors. They looked way over saturated or very dull, depending on whether the programs CMM was off or on. But the effect looked different on three different machines I checked.
A Mac Pro with NEC PA271 and NEC Multi Profiler
A Mac Pro with NEC 2690WUXi and NEC Spectraview II
A MacBook Pro 17", calibrated with Datacolor Spyder 3 Pro
All Machines on OS X 10.8.x
On one machine the reds got over exaggerated, on the other it had a orange-green tint. And so on.
The developer of Photo Mechanic gave me a special error logging version and with the log I sent him he eventually was able to fix it. Seems to say a lot if you ask me ...

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Preserve RGB colors in PDF/X

Is there a way to preserve RGB colors in a PDF/X document?
I always believed a PDF/X-3 allows RGB colors, but does flatten transparency. I tried that but all RGB colors become CMYK, even with "no color conversion" set in the output tab. We need it for large format printing.
A "normal" PDF (High Quality Print...) preserves RGB colors, but it doesn't flatten transparency which gave us too many problems in the past.
I'm not sure about when the colors are seen as "Device RGB" or "Calibrated RGB" in Acrobat either. What's the difference, and when does InDesign export it as Device or Calibrated RGB?

You can think of a PDF/X file as a PDF file that has already gone through a set of "preflight parameters". For example, the following "rules" apply to ALL PDF/X files - thus if the file complies with PDF/X, you don't need to bother checking such things.
ALL fonts are embedded (may be full or subset)
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No annotations, form fields and the like covering over the page content
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How can I preserve RGB color within Adobe PDF?

I'm using Acrobat Pro 9.3.1, OS 10.6, and I'm creating PDF output from Keynote, strictly for on-screen viewing. I would like to use Acrobat Pro to create a compact PDF file with screen-resolution graphics, however I keep running into problems with color changes applied by Acrobat.
The document contains bright RGB colors. It also contains images, some of which are high DPI resolution.
* If I use the OS X "Save As PDF..." feature, the generated file is about 32 MB. Opening the resulting file with Preview, the file looks fine. Opening the resulting file with Acrobat, though, shows the bright colors in the file as very drab-- almost as though it's been compressed into CMYK space. Once it's in Acrobat, I can use the PDF Optimizer and save it as a mostly-adequate 10 MB file, but the color issue is annoying.
* If I use the "Save as Adobe PDF" feature, and save the file with "standard" settings, the resulting PDF file is 27 MB. If opened in Acrobat, it shows the same CYMK-like color compression, and if opened in Preview, it shows the bright colors.
* If I use the "Save as Adobe PDF" feature, and save the file with "PDF/A-1b:2005 (RGB)" settings, the resulting PDF file is 50 MB. In both Acrobat and Preview, it shows up with full and correct colors. So obviously Acrobat is capable of handling RGB after all. But this format is not really compatible-- it throws a warning about viewing in that format, and has all kinds of graphical glitches. And, the file is even larger than I started with.
So, what I would like to know is this: How can I set up acrobat to let me produce those nice 10 MB files, without showing the funny color compression?

p taz wrote:
Ummm... not quite sure where you get that from, colour managed means converted as per settings in the device or application. Acrobat preset for PDFX/1a specs a conversion to cmyk. Other presets include RGB or unconverted and these are chosen by the app or user.
This is where your problem is, something inside Keynote is applying a conversion. I was just eliminating the obvious, not just for you but for other, less knowledgeable readers.
Preview will use the monitor or sRGB profile and the only way to make sRGB or equivalents look flat is to feed it an untagged file that belonged to a very different gamut.
3. Yes, conversion is happening. That's what I'm trying to prevent.
By definition, not converting means UNmanaged.. what you were calling unmanaged before is actually MISmanaged.
As mentioned, Acrobat, to my knowledge does not convert without being told to. That instruction comes from the built-in actions of the application in question or a user choice and you may not be able to address the former. If the former was the case then you might be able to work around by preparing your original file in a small gamut like sRGB and then it doesn't matter what Acrobat does unless you chose an unsuitable conversion at the user level.
> Acrobat preset for PDFX/1a specs a conversion to cmyk.
Okay. That confirms what's going on. Is there a way to turn this setting off, open the file, and then save it?
>This is where your problem is, something inside Keynote is applying a conversion.
No, actually keynote is irrelevant. You can blame it and its color mismanagement all day, but the fact is that the change happens when it's opened in Acrobat with the default settings. We know this because PS or PDF generated by keynote shows up okay in Preview or in that RGB PDF generated by distiller. It's absolutely unambiguous. I know that Acrobat is capable of converting the file without converting the color because it can make that RGB PDF. I know that my monitor isn't totally whacked because if I view that same "RGB PDF" on a different machine and/or OS, it look fine there too. But what I want to know is how to create that "RGB PDF" without the crazy bloat and iffy file format. There must be some settings that can be applied in Distiller to get this done.
From the suggestions that have been made here, it sounds like not many people have actually used recent versions of Acrobat Pro or Distiller on the Mac. (Options like "Email Files" and "PDFX4 2008" aren't there, converting PS files appears to broken, print to PDF is broken....) That's okay, I don't expect you to know everything about this. But, telling me just to not use the color blue or that my other programs are to blame isn't exactly helpful either. Am I asking the questions in the right place? Is there some Adobe tech support venue that's more appropriate?

If I save my Ai file as PDF the colors become washed out.. What is it and how do I change it? I've searched the web for it for hours..

Heres an image of the result.

As for the resolution problem: upsampling an image doesn't improve its quality, because there's simply not enough information there.
As for the warning you get: it's most likely caused by RGB color mode or by placed RGB content that interacts with other content in the file (e.g. because you applied transparency)
In English it's this one:
As far as I see it there's no alternative to learning the basics of printing, color management and transparency. This is nothing that can be done by some forum posts.
Printing:
http://rufus.deuchler.net/2011/06/adobe-publishes-a-new-creative-suite-555-printing-guide. html
You need to understand what's happening on conversion of RGB to CMYK color space, which will happen when printing to offset presses. When you print on office printers, something else happens and all kinds of color may come out, because these machines sometimes do their own color correction and everything depends on how you set up the machine.
Provided you check the PDF in Acrobat: you need to set up color management there as well. This might lead to the differences (greenish) you're seeing.
Find a good book on color management and read the manual:
Creative Suite * Understanding color management (there's more about the subject)
As for transparency:
http://partners.adobe.com/public/asn/en/print_resource_center/Transparency-DesignGuide.pdf
http://partners.adobe.com/public/asn/en/print_resource_center/TXPGuide.pdf
Before sending files to a print service provider you need to get information on how they need the file. Most providers won't accept PDFs generated with "No color conversion". Or they won't guarantee for the output.
What you see on your monitor won't necessarily match the printed result unless your system is correctly calibrated and color management set up. And even then there might be differences.
Can't you contact this former colleague, pay him an amount of money and let him teach you the tools of the trade?

RGB color in inDesign changes (washed out) after exporting it to PDF

Hi,
I am new to InDesign and i have a hard time figuring out how could I export my InDesign file to PDF without affecting the color.
This is what I do.
1. I created a new document with Transparency Blend Space set to Document RGB
2. I created a box using the rectangle tool and filled it up with RGB color, R=126 G=12 B=110
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4. Instead of the color i wanted, the color was changed to a lighter color, or washed out.
5. THis happens even in text have the same RGB setting.
How could I export it to PDF with the same color, without being washed out?
I really appreciate your help on this. Thanks.

That sounds like the Color Picker, which works a bit differently in ID than in Illustrator or Photoshop. If the cursor is not in one of the RGB fields when you say OK you won't get RGB color. You can see this by noting the text in the Add ... Swatch button. My guess is you added the color as the CMYK conversion which is a bit lighter.
You might want to use the panel menu in the Swatches panel instead, or the new swatch button at the bottom of the panel while holding down the Alt key to open the new swatch definition dialog. You want to create a Process color and change the type to RGB, then enter the values in the RGB fields. Or if what you want is really Pantone 249U you can define a Spot swatch and choose Pantone Solid Uncoated and then specify the 249. I'll warn you though, that CS6 uses Lab values for displaying spot colors and 249U is considerably lighter than either the RGB you specified or the 249C. In earlier versions the book value conversions were used. Even when using Lab display values through Ink Manager in CS5, the coated and uncoated swatches incorrectly look the same in ID, and in Illustrator CS5 you would need to turn on overprint preview to see a difference.
Here are a couple of screen captures from PDFs exported from ID CS5 and CS6 using High Quality Print. The colored boxes with the lables were pasted from Illustrator CS5 to be sure I was using the same color definitions and that theywere behaving as native objects. Below are the same boxes placed:
and here is how the screen looked in CS6 in ID (notice the difference in the placed .ai file -- the screen preview is NOT using the Lab values, although it exports with them):
I don't know what the content is and how you present it, but it doesn't sound like a web page. That said, if you choose Web for intent in Document Setup you can still use print size paper sizes for the document and change the rulers after the doc is created to read inches or millimeters or other units of your choice instead of pixels and the file will use default RGB swatches and default to RGB when making new colors.

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Preserving RGB color in PDFs

Bare with me because my lack of knowledge on this topic is alarming...
I teach online photography classes and make my lessons (originally created in Word for MAC) available to my students via downloadable PDFs.
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How can I preserve my RBG color AND make sure the PDFs are still compatible for my students to download?
The image on the left is my Word document (with the correct blue coloring) and the image on the right is my PDF (with the inaccurate blue coloring.)
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide - I'm stumped!

I wanted to add that I did search this topic in advance but (perhaps it's my lack of knowledge on the subject) was still unable to figure out a solution.

Printing RGB colors - Conversion to CMYK?

Hi,
I have been working for a little while in converting my old RGB colors to CMYK printer friendly colors.
However, I carefully choosed my printing friendly CMYK colors to be as close as possible to the RGB colors but the prints are dull !
On the other hand, when I print my file withj RGB colors using the PDF Distiller tagged with Adobe1998 profile and send the file to the printer, colors look smarter !
It means that the CMYK colors I picked myself are not good enough anf the Color Managment in Adobe PDF or Illustrator are better than me ! As follows:
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Both ouput similar quality prints, and better than my own CMYK colors !
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Hi,
Thanks for your response. I put these color issues on hold because I had no time to search more on that recently...
However, I have still lots of questions about color conversion!
When I said "carefully choose" CMYK colors, it means CMYK colors printable and which look similar to my old RGB colors on-screen. But of course, screen is not enough!
What I noticed is that when I print my old RGB colors (not in printer color space), Adobe Reader or Illustrator were able to make good conversion to CMYK for printing.
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Cheers

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So, upon investigating, I realized that my color space in Illustrator was RGB... Damn... I must have overlooked that... When I convert (in Illustrator) to CMYK, I get those strange colors again.
When I export to PDF, the Output is "no color conversion", so it's not being converted to CMYK yet...
Plus, I just linked the AI files in Indesign when I placed them in there.
So, Indesign must be converting the file to CMYK? And that's why the colors change once I convert to PDF? What do you think?
Also, I used InDesign to place the files so that I could create a 2-page pdf easily that the printer could work with. I had a 4-up handbills page in there that I was planning on printing as well.
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For P.O.D. Printing: How to Set Adobe RGB Color Space

Hello and thanks in advance,
(I'm using InDesign CS 5.5 on a Mac.)
I need to set the proper PDF export settings
For printing a book on demand, with color drawings inside on the text pages.
The onnly instructions that I have been able to find, say this:
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File --> Adobe PDF Presets --> Press Quality
Then I click on the "Output Menu"
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Our recommendation at Adobe for best printing results, whether for offset or digital printing, is to export PDF as PDF/X-4 with no color conversion using the default CMYK color space (SWOP CMYK) or if instructed otherwise by your print service provider, one of the other CMYK color spaces provided by Adobe or by the print service provider themselves. FWIW, most on-demand digital print devices do have settings to fully emulate SWOP CMYK printing conditions. Using PDF/X-4 in this manner allows the existing color content in your InDesign document to be properly tagged in the output PDF file and converted to CMYK at the digital printing device's RIP.
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RGB colors become dull in Acrobat PDFs

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