Sharpness of Moving Subjects Indoors

So I was a wedding photographer for years and shot square format using lots of different techniques both indoors and outdoors. The subject rarely moves unless dancing. So there was lots that can be done.   Now, I shoot a Mark4 and a Mark3 but mostly of my children during their life’s events. Yes I shoot at work (not my primary role but rather an ancillary duty), but typically outdoors where ample light is not a problem.
When shooting my kids at their karate tournaments, it is typically in a gymnasium. Yes there are some windows and lots of metal halide lights. But when trying to freeze the type of a katana during karate forms demonstration, one must crank up the shutter speed.   Like 640 plus. This just kills the ability to use a non grainy ISO. typically at 12,800iso at F3.2 just to keep the exposure in the ball park.
And of course it never fails some mom posts a pic with an iPhone that is tack sharp and I need to hear why are my photos grainy.   Granted the iPhone was not freezing the action to the same degree, but it is pretty damned good.
I guess my question, without using a flash, any recommended settings that will offer good results at freezing the action with keeping the ISO out of the grain.

mgrabow wrote:
Sorry 1D MK4 and 1D MK3.   I typically ise a 16-35mm 1:2.8L   I have an 85 1.2L  but because of how the events are layes out I need the flexebility of a wide angle zoom when close.  If I am in the stands I can use a prime but the 85mm requires too much croping in afterwards and makes the problem worse.   My bugger zoom is a 4.5-5.6L  so that forces me to push the ISO higer.  Cant really change my position as I am not the house photographer and I am limitted where I can stand.
16-35mm is sorta wide to get many types of sports shots... though it's better on an APS-H camera like yours when you can get as close as in your example. Plus f2.8 is the max aperture it or practically any other zoom provides. At least it's got USM focus, which is fast in most cases. (Don't know what your bigger f4.5-5.6L zoom is, but I would guess it's the 70-300L that has USM and is also fast focusing, though the aperture somewhat limits it to "good light" conditions).
85/1.2L is a wonderful portraiture lens. But even though it's USM, it  is not the fastest focusing or most ideal for sports/action. With such an extremely large aperture lens capable of rendering razor thin depth of field, a "long throw" focus mechanism is used to emphasize accuracy, at some cost to speed. This is not typical of USM lenses. They are usually the fastest focusing. For example, the EF 85/1.8 USM is noticeably faster focusing than the 85/1.2L. 85/1.2L II is faster than the original, but still not as fast as the f1.8 lens (which is also a lot smaller and lighter). EF 28/1.8, EF 50/1.4, EF 85/1.8, EF 100/2, EF 135/2L are all very fast focusing USM lenses. So are the EF 70-200/2.8 and 70-200/4 lenses, though they are one or two or even three stops "slower".  
Looking at your shot, I don't see that foucs is likely to be your concern, but see another likely problem... the type of lighting being used. I'm guessing it's either flourescent, sodium vapor or mercury vapor. All these types of lighting are quite challenging for most cameras, because the lamps actually cycle on and off at a high rate (120 times per second in the US, 100 hz in some other parts of the world). This "fools" the camera meter and often the white balance as well. Another reason to shoot RAW, to have more latitude to correct missed exposure or white balance. The relatively recently introduced Canon 7DII has a new feature that's said to be able to compensate for this lighting effect. I haven't used it (yet), but if it works reasonably well it might be a real game changer for those of us who get stuck shooting in these types of lighting conditions often.
You should further research and experiment with noise reduction. I've had the good fortune to get some guidance from someone who did a lot of testing with 7D (original) like my cameras, and has provided a lot of info on high ISO work with them. It's a combination of using extra + Exposure Compensation, using a Noiseware plug-in with Photoshop. and with particularly high ISOs even applying different noise reduction in each of the color channels.  
At least you can be certain you're getting much better shots than the folks with camera phones, in the background of your sample shot!

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    Some third party lenses also make use of focus drive similar to Canon's USM, to help with focus performance. Sigma's HSM and Tamron's USD lenses are examples.
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    Canon also has noted that the 18MP models are somewhat prone to camera shake blur - probably due to the high density of pixel sites on the sensor - and recommends keeping shutter speeds up to be sure to get a sharp shot, even with IS lenses. There was a white paper about this, on Canon's website. I don't know if it's still available online.  
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    Alan Myers
    San Jose, Calif., USA
    "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
    GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
    FLICKR & PRINTROOM 

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  • Z3 Compact scenes not working in manual camera mode

    Hi. That's my problem: when I use manual camera, the scn button is grey and not working, so the HDR. They worked when I bought the phone, at Christmas... No mod root etc. Please help me!
    Solved!
    Go to Solution.

    http://support.sonymobile.com/global-en/xperiaz3compact/userguide/Using-still-camera-settings/
     It has to be set on Manual mode at 8mp 
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    100
    Sets the ISO sensitivity to 100.
    200
    Sets the ISO sensitivity to 200.
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    Sets the ISO sensitivity to 400.
    800
    Sets the ISO sensitivity to 800.
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    When taking a photo, it can be difficult to hold the device steady. The stabiliser helps you by compensating for small movements of the hand.
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    The preview of the photo or video apears for 5 seconds after you shoot it.
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    The preview of the photo or video appears for 3 seconds after you shoot it.
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    The photo or video opens for editing after you shoot it.
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    The photo or video is saved after you shoot it, and no preview appears.
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    "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." Kurt Cobain (1967-1994)

  • 5D Mark iii AF system - necessary for hobbyist photographer?

    I take pictures of just about everything, including running/playing children. My biggest complaint about my current camera (a high-end point-and-shoot. Definitely time to upgrade!) is that it doesn't focus well on moving subjects, nor does it focus well in low-light conditions (or do anything in low-light conditions, really). I would like to purchase the 6D, but if it's going to give me trouble every time I try to focus on moving people, then it's not worth 2000 dollars. The 5D Mark iii apparently has amazing AF but, honestly, it almost seems overwhelming to me. My choices are a crippled AF or a complicated AF, and I'm not sure what to do. As a hobbyist photographer who often shoots moving subjects, will the 6D be adequate? Or should I buy the 5D Mark iii and just plan on spending a good amount of time with the instruction manual?

    Wow, thanks for your advice, everyone! And you're right; money doesn't buy skill so I shouldn't waste an extra thousand as an attempt to make up for my weaknesses.
    My camera is essentially attached to my hip; I take it everywhere and shoot anything that interests me at the time. However, I can pinpoint two conditions in which I spend the most time shooting. I photograph a LOT of events, maybe half of which are indoors with varying lighting conditions. I also enjoy taking pictures at night in the city - people and stationary objects/settings. I currently use manual focus for night and low-light indoor conditions (which is frustratingly difficult when people are moving), and I use a tripod and long exposures for most of my night pictures (which is limiting). Even then, the pictures rarely turn out as sharp and vivid as I would like. The thought of a camera that can produce better quality images in the dark or low-light AND that can AUTO focus in said conditions sounds marvelous, and that's the reason I'm aiming for full frame. It sounds like some of the crop sensor cameras may be better than the 6D for all the events I photograph, given their AF capabilities, but I'm okay with sacrificing some AF (within reason) and some cash for quality night and low-light shots. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that full frame is necessary for all this though? I just read reviews and saw sample images and was impressed with the pictures coming out of full frame cameras in low-light and night conditions. I don't have hands-on experience with crop sensor cameras though, so I may be underestimating them. Please correct me if I am wrong in any of my assumptions!
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  • Just bought T5i looking to get zoom lense

    I am a novice with a camera. I just bought a T5i kit that has a zoom lense 55 to 250. I am considering the sigma 120-400mm F4.5-5.6 DG APO OS HSM. Because it is almsot twice the zoom. I am also thinking of getting a 1.4x canon teleconverter for the canon 55 to 250mm lense instead of the sigma, I know the canon 1.4x will decrease the picture quality but how much is the question. So which lense do I buy? 
    I am going to use it for my granson's hockey and football games and I love to take picture of birds in the wild. Any and all thoughts would be apreciated.
                     Joe
    Joe

    The tele converter won't work on the EF-S 55-250 zoom.
    For indoor sports like hockey, or for any sport played at night, it is a challenge to get good shots cheap because you have dim light and moving subjects together. You need a wide aperture to let a lot of light in, and that tends to be expensive.
    This one, the Canon EF 135mm f/2 would work well for the sports but would be short for birds unless you lure them in close with a feeder : http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-135mm-f-2.0-L-USM-Lens-Review.aspx
    It gives a very wide aperture, letting like 8 times more light in than your kit zoom can, and it gives razor sharp images. It costs 1/2 of what the 70-200 f/2.8 IS 2 costs, and is twice as bright, though shorter and less versatile. See http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-70-200mm-f-2.8-L-IS-II-USM-Lens-Review.aspx
    Scott
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  • When will Sony release the new firmware 14.3.A.0.761?

    I'm getting tired of my Xperia Z1 camera. It's super grainy and blurry. Superior Auto mode doesn't help. In Manual setting the ISO and Red-Eye Reduction option don't work. They are unclickable.
    My Xperia SP works a very liiiiiiittle bit better in Manual settings > Resolution 2MP (4:3), Night Portrait scene, Flash OFF. But with the Xperia Z1, it seems like there's no other way or option to take even a single good picture.
    Sony Software Team..... PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, fix it!!!!!!!!!
    Hopes Xperia Z1 and SP are not my last phones by Sony brand.

    Here are some tips to effectively utilize your Z1 camera: (based on my personal experience)
    1. Increasing ISO setting increases camera sensitivity w/c means lesser blur when taking moving subjects. Take note, you must get the right setting for this. ISO algorithm increases sharpness therefore more noise and grainy pictures if tweaked badly. It is best to set ISO setting to "AUTO" mode. This setting increases the chance of getting the right or acceptable ISO setting in Z1.
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    3. Do not use superior auto if you already know your scene. Sometimes superior auto fails to suggest the right SCN. For example you go outside of your house on a bright sunlight, you already know that it is sunny. Then superior auto indicates a face icon w/c means soft skin or face detection. This is not right, instead go to manual mode tap SCN and use HDR backlight correction, that setting is more suitable strong backlight scenes. Always use the SCN option in manual mode if the options available there fits your environment or scene. What if the scene you are taking does not included in SCN option in manual mode? Then it is time to use superior auto in these situation. If I'm not mistaken, superior auto uses the BIONZ processing algorithm w/c is optimized for up to 32 different SCN. Some of the optimized SCN included in the BIONZ processing algorithm are the low light SCN symbolizes the candle icon, flower icon for macro shots etc. These settings are not available in the SCN manual mode and can be used only in superior auto mode. Remember superior auto only uses 8MP not 20.7
    4. Use superior auto in most low light conditions.
    5. If you do not prefer using the manual SCN options. It is best to set the white balance options first before tweaking other options in manual mode. Set the right light condition for the right scene. Select the sun icon when shooting unser the sun, fluorescent icon in inside the house or under a fluorescent lamp, bulb if shooting in a bulb lighted environment etc and you'll be stunned and shocked with the Z1 camera capabilities.
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  • Action zoom lens

    I have a Rebel T3i and I go to a lot of sports games, so I need some suggestions for action/zoom lens. I'm obviously not a professional photographer haha (: so I have to scratch off those large telefoto lens that the professional photographers use at games.

    It's not that the professional photographers WANT to spend all that money on those high-end lenses... but there are attributes which set those lenses above the others.
    The f-stop describes the size of the opening in the lens (the physical aperture) relative to the length of the lens.  The larger this opening is (the smaller the ratio) the more light the lens can collect when the shutter is open (and as a side-effect... it also produces a shallower depth of field ... that's the range of distances at which a subject will appear to be more-or-less in acceptable focus.)
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    However... if you are shooting either indoor games or outdoor night games played under artificial lighting then collecting enough light to allow for a fast shutter speed can be a real challenge.  To address that, low focal-ratio zoom lenses are ideal (e.g. f/2.8 zooms lenses) but these lenses aren't cheap.  To create a low focal ratio means that the diameter of clear aperture has to be large as compared to the focal length.  That means that each lens element must be physically bigger than it would be in a typical lens.  This creates a problem because large lens elements work like prisms near their edges in that they try to split light into their constituent "rainbow" wavelengths.  To combat that issue (which they refer to as "chromatic abberateion" or "color fringing") they have to create extra corrective elements.  That means these lenses are not just bigger and wider, but also have more physical glass in them and are more difficult to make.  This results in a more expensive lens.
    The professional sports photographers would much rather buy inexpensive lenses... if only they could get away with it.  
    If your'e shooting ourdoor games... the EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM may do the trick.  If shooting in less favorable lighting (indoor games) then the EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM II is certainly a fantastic (but not cheap) lens.  The EF 70-200mm f/4L USM is a MUCH less expensive alternative but it's 1 stop slower (it collects half the light when the shutter is open).  For outdoor games a longer focal length is desirable... usually around 300mm.
    Tim Campbell
    5D II, 5D III, 60Da

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