Srgb color space question

Does Lightroom convert jpg files to srgb color space when exporting?

LR converts them to the colorspace specified on the Export panel. There are several choices, including sRGB. You may need to expand various sections to see the option.

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Question: sRGB color space profile icm

I am trying to convert a file to color space sRGB color space profile.icm. The profile is located in my library on my hard drive under recommended profiles but it does not appear in the drop down menu under edit/convert to profile. Any ideas about why? I have performed this task on my MAC at my college but can't seem to do it on my MAC in my studio...

LR converts them to the colorspace specified on the Export panel. There are several choices, including sRGB. You may need to expand various sections to see the option.

New ICC v4 sRGB Color Space May Prevent Clipping Converting From ProPhoto RGB

Just discovered and tried out this new sRGB color space downloaded from this page:
http://www.color.org/srgbprofiles.xalter
Here's a cropped demo with histograms of a raw image I've been working on in ProPhotoRGB in ACR 3.7 and CS2:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26078880@N02/2874068887/sizes/o/
Please disregard the PRMG name in the demo. I got confused as to which was which on that site and thought that this version of sRGB was a PRMG=(Perceptual Reference Medium Gamut) profile. It's called sRGB_v4_ICC_preference.icc.
Note the different color shifts using the Perceptual intent and unchecking Black Point Compensation=(BPC). Neat little features embedded in this profile, but not sure about how it renders certain colors close to clipping in the shadows. That site doesn't recommend mixed use of ICC v4 with v2 color spaces and output device profiles but I did it anyway just to see what it does.
Who knows this may be the equivalent of handing scissors to children, but I'm just one of those curious children and thought I'ld share anyway.

I'll try to respond to a few items above.
The digital values in a Pro Photo RGB file should generally be the same as for a ROMM RGB file. The exception is that all possible Pro Photo RGB values are "legal" but not all ROMM RGB values are "legal." ISO 22028-2 restricts the legal ROMM values to those with PCS LAB values between 0 and 100 L* and -128 to +128 a* and b*.
There is no enforcement if you use the illegal values in a ROMM file but as some of these values do not represent possible colors this is not advisable. I think it is good practice to try to stay mostly inside the ICC v4 PRM gamut with Pro Photo/ROMM images. You can check this using the gamut warning profile on the ICC site.
If you have a Pro Photo RGB image you should just assign the ROMM profile to it. Converting to ROMM RGB should not change anything in the ideal sense but there is the possibility to introduce rounding errors and mismatch black points.
The main difference between the Pro Photo RGB profile and the ROMM RGB profile is the former includes black scaling to zero (as is common with v2 color space and display profiles) and the latter does not (as is required with v4 profiles).
In the duck picture, the reason for the difference is the ROMM profile black is at L*=3 so this is where the lowest blacks land when converting MRC to v2 sRGB (which has the sRGB blacks scaled to L*=0). In this case leaving BPC off is analogous to turning on "Simulate Black Ink" in Photoshop Proof Setup.
All the ACR color space choices are v2 profiles with black scaling. If you want a v4 profile embedded you have to assign it (if you have a corresponding v4 profile) or convert to it.
Both the sRGB and PRM gamuts fit within the ROMM RGB legal encoding range, but if you use a v2 profile with black scaling you should always turn on BPC when combining with a v4 profile. Otherwise the v4 profile will think the v2 profile represents a device with an infinite dynamic range. When BPC is on the Color Engine scales the black point of the source profile to the black point of the destination profile.
The sRGB gamut extends outside the PRM gamut in some places, and the PRM gamut extends outside the sRGB gamut in other places. If you convert using a colorimetric intent in either direction some of the gamut will be clipped. The purpose of the sRGB v4 perceptual transforms is to minimize clipping in both directions.
I can't do this justice here but basically scene-referred images are encodings of the scene colors and output-referred images are encodings of the picture colors on some medium for which the picture colors have been optimized. You can make a scene-referred image by setting the ACR sliders (except the white balance sliders) to zero and the curves tab to linear. You make an output-referred image when you adjust the sliders to non-zero values to make a nice picture as viewed on some medium. For example you might adjust the sliders differently to get the best results printing colorimetrically on glossy photo paper vs. on plain office paper.
Often an important part of the transform to output-referred includes a midtone contrast and saturation boost. While there will likely be some highlight and may be some shadow compression, it is misleading to think of this transform only as a compression to some output medium dynamic range. In some cases the output medium dynamic range is larger than that of the scene.
Usually the transform to output-referred is more complicated than a simple gamma function.
Regardless of the image state (scene-referred or output-referred) the sRGB, Adobe RGB, or Pro Photo RGB nonlinearities will be applied to create the image data that you open into Photoshop.
We are working in the ICC to prepare more information for posting on this topic.

How do I save images into an sRGB color space?

Hello,
I'm trying to do this to a batch of images. I'm not up to writing scripts.
But I can't even convert one RAW image to an sRGB color space.
Any thoughts?
Much appreciated!
Matt

There's a link at the bottom-center of the Camera Raw dialog. Click it and you'll be able to set the color space for output of the conversions.
-Noel

SRGB monitor and SRGB color space in After Effects

Hello, I would like to ask some really basics about color correction. I do mostly animations and editing that plays on web and television sometimes. Im using a dell 2713hm monitor. Should i use the sRGB profile when i color correct? Also should i set my After Effects also to sRGB color space? thanx

My monitor comes calibrated in sRGB i think. But in any case, i m getting the spy4elite tool these days so will fix this issue.
So lets suppose it is. And please lets keep the explanation as simple as possible, cause i have read A LOT and i got confused.
From my understanding when having 8bit and i need to export for web, i should use the sRGB both in profile monitor, in AE color management and in output module? If that is correct, i wanna know what i do when i do 32 bit compositing, and also what i do when i got things for television (either motion graphics/3d or footage)
thanx

From Stage3Image() to sRGB color space

I get my image this way dng_image* image = (negative->Stage3Image()); I have to manimulate with it and then I want to covtert it to sRGB color space. I tryed to do gamma 2.2 and white balance with white point from camera, but colors are still different.
I think that I should use this matrix camera2RGB for conversion but I don't know how.
dng_camera_profile* profile = negative->CameraProfileToEmbed();
dng_color_spec spec(*negative,profile);
const dng_matrix camera2RGB = dng_space_sRGB::Get ().MatrixFromPCS () * spec.CameraToPCS ();
profile->HasColorMatrix1(); returns true
profile->HasColorMatrix2(); returns true
negative->HasCameraNeutral(); returns true
Sorry for my language skill
Thank you
Petr Kocich

Broadly, (and speaking from memory) what dng_render does is to convert
into a linear (gamma 1) ProPhoto space, apply a tone curve, etc, then
convert to the final output color space.
The mathematics are conventional color matrix maths. You can find a
lot of references on the web. Including some I wrote : http://chromasoft.googlepages.com/colorspacepapers
The other place to look is at the documentation of CMMs such as
littleCMS: http://www.littlecms.com/
What littleCMS does is exactly the same, if a bit more generalized, as
what the DNK SDK does in regards of color management.
Sandy

Color Space Question For Printing

I have multiple newbie questions so please bear with me
Normally when working in photoshop, I tend to use the RGB color space as I need the use of filters and other effects not available in CMYK, Now when printing flyers E.g A4 Sized I tend to save the PSD in RGB (Without Flattening) and then importing it into a CMYK color space in illustrator and then exporting as a PDF, as illustrator gives me the option to create bleed as well as trim marks, I have never exported a PDF from photoshop as it always gives me the option of photoshop pdf which is kinda heavy.
My question is, is the process I use okay for printing? or do I first need to convert it into CMYK? or just export from photoshop itself? Also, the other reason I use illustrator is if i'm making a business card with two sides, since text is better exported from illustrator.
Could anyone tell me a simpler process for creating for digital print? Especially if I need to do some items in illustrator as well.

>> images are still a bit washed out with a warmish/ yellow cast to them, particularly, my black and white images
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if the monitor profile is reasonably good:
Open a RGB file in Photoshop (flatten if not already flattened).
Press M key> Drag a selection> Com+Shift+U (Desaturate).
Com+Z (to toggle back and forth).
If the unsaturated selection looks neutral you've got a reasonably fair monitor profile.
If selection has color casts (not neutral) -- you have a bad monitor profile
+++++
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if a bad monitor profile is whacking out your Photoshop color:
Monitors/Displays (control panel)> Color> highlight AppleRGB or sRGB (don't run Calibrate), quit and reboot.
If the Photoshop colors are back under control, then the problem was most surely a bad monitor profile go back into Monitors/Displays> Color and Calibrate a good profile highlight (load) sRGB, or preferably, the monitor's OEM profile as a starting point.
If you are using a puck, it is likely defective; or your monitor hardware is the culprit...search it on Google by model number

HSB Color Space Question - How Many Colors Are There In Photoshop

Hello guys, I have a sort of basic question that I have been trying to figure out for a few days.
I am trying to find out how many colors there are in the Color Picker when the Hue radio button is selected.
I know there are 256^3 RGB (#Hex) colors, and I am trying to find some relationship when I am coloring with HSB color space in Photoshop.
It just confuses me because the Hue slider goes from 0-359 and the S and B goes from 0-99...
So how many HSB colors in Photoshop are there? Am I missing out on some colors by using HSB color space in Photoshop as oposed to using RGB?
Are there the exact same amount? Are there more and there are duplicates in HSB space mode?
Thank you all for all your help, much appreciated
Travis

misterfowly wrote:
I know there are 256^3 RGB (#Hex) colors, and I am trying to find some relationship when I am coloring with HSB color space in Photoshop.
It just confuses me because the Hue slider goes from 0-359 and the S and B goes from 0-99...
So how many HSB colors in Photoshop are there? Am I missing out on some colors by using HSB color space in Photoshop as oposed to using RGB?
The deficiency of such mathematical models is that they do not take into account noise and human perception. In an 24 bit RGB space (8 bits per channel) there may be 16 million colors, but this assumes that there are 256 discrete levels in each color channel. You could increase the number of colors by using a 48 bit space. In practice, noise will reduce the number of discrete levels, and this will vary with the camera and ISO used in that camera. For example, consider the Nikon D5000 as evaluated by DXO. At base ISO the camera can resolve only 21.8 bits of color information and this decreases to 15.6 bits at an effective ISO of 2079 (camera ISO setting of 3200).
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Nikon/D5000
Then you have to consider how many of these colors can actually be differentiated by the human visual system. If you can't see a difference, it really doesn't matter.These differences are difficult to quantitate. One such effort uses MacAdam ellipses shown in this Wikipedia article on a CIE 1931 xy plot. How many of these ellipses are contained in the CIE xy space? The DXO site has similar ellipses for real world camera images.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacAdam_ellipse
See this RIT FAQ for a more sober real world analysis. The actual number of colors is in the millions, but likely not 16 million.
http://www.cis.rit.edu/mcsl/outreach/faq.php?catnum=1#219
In a real world situation, I would not be overly concerned about differences between the RGB and HSB spaces, but one could increase precision by using a 48 bit space.

Color Space Question

I've imported a jpg created in photoshop with embedded sRGB profile(via Save for Web), but when I soft proof to Lightroom's sRGB profile I see out-of-gamut colors. Is Lightroom doing something with the imported color space?

It's a bug. In both ACR, LR and Photoshop. Of course it show no OOG colors but shouldn't. Ignore it. In fact, the OOG overlay which predates Photoshop 5 with real soft proofing isn't at all useful.

Color space question for photoshop cs on mac os10

I'm sure this has been beaten to death here before. I've been dealing with color space issues for months now, and I'm about at my wits end.
I realize that I should be saving in sRGB in order to get the same looking photo on the web that I get in photoshop. I go image-mode- convert to profile- destination space- profile: srgb profile. I've tried saving for web. I check "ICC" when I do that. When I just save an image as a jpeg (from a tiff), I check the box that says, "embed color profile." Still, my images look washed out on my website (which I made with iweb)- which I'm trying to put my images in a new web interface (flash palette) and my images STILL look washed out. The weird thing is, I NEVER have this issue when I upload images to photobucket or to the photography forum that I frequent.
What the heck am I doing wrong??
Thanks,
Hope

>> images are still a bit washed out with a warmish/ yellow cast to them, particularly, my black and white images
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if the monitor profile is reasonably good:
Open a RGB file in Photoshop (flatten if not already flattened).
Press M key> Drag a selection> Com+Shift+U (Desaturate).
Com+Z (to toggle back and forth).
If the unsaturated selection looks neutral you've got a reasonably fair monitor profile.
If selection has color casts (not neutral) -- you have a bad monitor profile
+++++
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if a bad monitor profile is whacking out your Photoshop color:
Monitors/Displays (control panel)> Color> highlight AppleRGB or sRGB (don't run Calibrate), quit and reboot.
If the Photoshop colors are back under control, then the problem was most surely a bad monitor profile go back into Monitors/Displays> Color and Calibrate a good profile highlight (load) sRGB, or preferably, the monitor's OEM profile as a starting point.
If you are using a puck, it is likely defective; or your monitor hardware is the culprit...search it on Google by model number

Color Space Question... using Lagarith Lossless Codec.

Hi all,
I use the Lagarith Lossless Codec for all my source editing files importing into Premiere Pro and for exporting to my encoder I use.
My question is this. I found that most of my sources are in YUV color space, so when I prep them for editing using VirtualDub, etc... I export them to Lagarith Lossless Codec in the YUY2 color space setting. The size difference between using RGB and YUY2 is enough to make me want to just use YUY2. So when editing those prepped files in YUY2 in Premiere Pro and them exporting the in the same YUY2 color space configuration, does it degrade in quality at all? I heard somewhere that Premiere Pro ONLY edits in RGB color space. So am I really messing up here or is it safe to do what I am doing?
Thanks in advance!

Premiere Pro will keep the color space of the original media. And many of the effects can now also operate in YUV space (They are marked by the YUV icon.) However, any effects you use that are not marked with that icon will force an RGB conversion.

Print & color space question

Have an illustrator cs6 file I just sent to a client for printing. It has linked rgb and CMYK files. When I sent the file I forgot to convert the rgb images to CMYK. They were linked psd and tiff files. Don't have direct contact with who will print. Do I need to worry about the RGB images outputting poorly? Or will Illustrator handle the conversion ok just in case printer doesn't check the files carefully.

You haven't said a word about what kind of document it is or what kind of images it contains.
For all anyone trying to advise you knows, it could be a $60,000 press run of a poster for the next blockbuster movie. Or it could be a $60 run of a flier for the local Girl Scout troop. Or anything in between.
The image may be a commissioned studio portrait of the hottest current rock star. Or it may be a simple geometric graphic for which no one but you knows the "correct" color anyway.
I'm not being a wise-guy. I'm making a point that far too many people who sweat blood over color calibration overlook entirely: How color critical is it? That's the first and foremost consideration regarding any practical answer to your question.
Designers have been placing RGB images in documents destined for process separation ever since the 80s, and the vast majority of the time, for most practical purposes, the automatic conversion to CMYK comes out fine.
It's quite doubtful that anyone is going to hold a spectrophotometer up to your printed piece and then publicly crucify you as a color-ignorant dolt. (There are plenty of such dolts sweating blood over hair-splitting color calibration, all the while oblivious to the far more dramatic improvement possible with a little color correction.)
It's probably just fine; but so far only you know how color-critical the job is.
JET

RGB color space in LR3 - does it convert back to sRGB on export?

First off, I've only had LR3 for two days so I am a complete novice. I've been reading my book and just came across the part about RGB color space. I shoot with and use sRGB, which apparently LR will recognize. However, it states that the develop module uses Lightroom RGB. My question is, when I export my edited photos to PSE8 (or to a folder on my desktop to save and email for my daughter's business), does it export them back as sRGB? I know there is a lot of controversy over the whole RGB thing, but after my research on the matter, I have decided that sRGB is the best for my particular situation. I'm just making sure I don't have to check something or convert them back if they don't automatically change out of LightroomRGB.

ColeeLou2,
Some additional thoughts to what has been said already:
I shoot with and use sRGB, which apparently LR will recognize.
The color space you chose on your camera (sRGB, AdobeRGB) only affects the JPEG rendering in your camera. It does not affect the RAW file, as a RAW file is not in any color space. Upon import of a RAW into LR, it will be rendered in a ProPhoto RGB color space with an sRGB tone curve (Jao will correct me if I'm wrong ) for use within LR.
My question is, when I export my edited photos to PSE8 (or to a folder on my desktop to save and email for my daughter's business),
I would suggest using an sRGB color space upon export for external uses (like emailing to your daughter), but use ProPhotoRGB when going into PSE in external edit. This way you will have all the color information possible available in PSE, and PSE will recognize the ProPhotoRGB color space.
Beat Gossweiler
Switzerland

The availability of color space in RAW, TIFF and JPEG files

This is useful if your new to DSLR photography.
This is Nikon response on my question in the discussion: View photo metadata
I'm assuming that you know that Adobe RGB shows about 50% and sRGB 35% of CIELAB color space.
In a DSLR camera like the Nikon D800 you can select a color space (Adobe RGB or sRGB) in the shooting menu.
In Adobe Lightroom 4.3 the RAW metadata shows no color space info. Therefore I asked why not?
In the (Dutch) Nikon D800 manual on page 84 (about RAW) and 274 (about color space) and Nikon FAQ website there is no descripton about the color space availability/behavior in RAW, JPEG and TIFF files.
In the book "Mastering the Nikon D800 by Darrel Young" on page 125 - 126 is written: "If you shoot in RAW format a lot, you may want to consider using Adobe RGB....."
All experts on this forum answered: color space does not apply/affect the RAW data file or RAW files have no color space.
The respone of Nikon Europe Support (Robert Vermeulen) was: In Nikon D800 NEF RAW files both color spaces (Adobe RGB and sRGB) are always physically available. In JPEG and TIFF files only the in the shooting menu selected color space is physically available. So the forum experts gave the correct answer!
Of course you can convert afterwards a JPEG or TIFF file with sRGB color space to Adobe RGB but you don't get more colors.
When you install the Microsoft Camera Codec Pack or FastPictureViewer Codec Pack they only show color space metadata for JPEG and TIFF files and nothing for RAW because color space "doesn't exist". I thought the codec packs removed the color space metadata for my RAW files.
Adobe Lightroom also can not show color space for RAW files because that "doesn't exist".

Van-Paul wrote:
The respone of Nikon Europe Support (Robert Vermeulen) was: In Nikon D800 NEF RAW files both color spaces (Adobe RGB and sRGB) are physically available. In JPEG and TIFF files only the in the shooting menu selected color space is physically available.
I still think this is an evasive answer that doesn't really pinpoint the exact chain of events that take place. They are:
1. The raw file contains the naked data captured by the sensor. This is just a very dark grayscale image.
2. In the raw converter it is encoded into a working color space to process the information. In Lightroom this is known as "Melissa RGB", or linear gamma Prophoto. It is also demosaiced to bring back the color information.
3. From Lightroom it can be exported to one of the familiar color spaces like sRGB or Adobe RGB. This is, in principle at least, a normal profile conversion.
These three steps are what the camera does to produce a jpeg. So the basic steps are the same, the camera is just doing it automatically (and usually butchering the image in the process...).
This Darrell Young is, I'm sure, an excellent photographer, but in this he is seriously confused and just propagating a common myth. Anyway, thanks for bringing up this discussion, hope you didn't object too much to the tone of the answers... Our only concern here was to get this right and with no room for misunderstanding.

Color problem with ProPhoto RGB color space

Hi, everyone,
I have wery special problem I think. I use MacBook pro 15" with retina display, adobe Photoshop CC and when I export RAW (from Nikon D7000) from Lightroom 5 to Photoshop with settings: 16 bit TIF, color space: ProPhoto RGB I have a problem with displaying the correct colors. As you can see in this picture:
My problem are some "green" artefacts in absolutely black and white picture. I tried myself to solve this problem and found the following facts: when I convert picture into Adobe RGB or sRGB color space is everything OK - without green artefacts.
But here is one important fact: I have calibrated monitor by datacolor spyder4elite and problem with ProPhoto RGB incorrect color displaying is only when the color calibration configuration is loaded. When I change my display calibration to standard apple color LCD profile than is everything OK.
But using uncalibrated monitor and also Adobe RGB color space are no right solutions for me.
My question is why I have problem with displaying ProPhoto RGB color space in photoshop under calibrated monitor profile and can anybody help me please?
Thanks for answers.

That's a classic example of the basic problem with 16 bit color. There is no solution that I know of.

Srgb color space question

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