Color Space Question

I've imported a jpg created in photoshop with embedded sRGB profile(via Save for Web), but when I soft proof to Lightroom's sRGB profile I see out-of-gamut colors. Is Lightroom doing something with the imported color space?

It's a bug. In both ACR, LR and Photoshop. Of course it show no OOG colors but shouldn't. Ignore it. In fact, the OOG overlay which predates Photoshop 5 with real soft proofing isn't at all useful.

Similar Messages

HSB Color Space Question - How Many Colors Are There In Photoshop

Hello guys, I have a sort of basic question that I have been trying to figure out for a few days.
I am trying to find out how many colors there are in the Color Picker when the Hue radio button is selected.
I know there are 256^3 RGB (#Hex) colors, and I am trying to find some relationship when I am coloring with HSB color space in Photoshop.
It just confuses me because the Hue slider goes from 0-359 and the S and B goes from 0-99...
So how many HSB colors in Photoshop are there? Am I missing out on some colors by using HSB color space in Photoshop as oposed to using RGB?
Are there the exact same amount? Are there more and there are duplicates in HSB space mode?
Thank you all for all your help, much appreciated
Travis

misterfowly wrote:
I know there are 256^3 RGB (#Hex) colors, and I am trying to find some relationship when I am coloring with HSB color space in Photoshop.
It just confuses me because the Hue slider goes from 0-359 and the S and B goes from 0-99...
So how many HSB colors in Photoshop are there? Am I missing out on some colors by using HSB color space in Photoshop as oposed to using RGB?
The deficiency of such mathematical models is that they do not take into account noise and human perception. In an 24 bit RGB space (8 bits per channel) there may be 16 million colors, but this assumes that there are 256 discrete levels in each color channel. You could increase the number of colors by using a 48 bit space. In practice, noise will reduce the number of discrete levels, and this will vary with the camera and ISO used in that camera. For example, consider the Nikon D5000 as evaluated by DXO. At base ISO the camera can resolve only 21.8 bits of color information and this decreases to 15.6 bits at an effective ISO of 2079 (camera ISO setting of 3200).
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Nikon/D5000
Then you have to consider how many of these colors can actually be differentiated by the human visual system. If you can't see a difference, it really doesn't matter.These differences are difficult to quantitate. One such effort uses MacAdam ellipses shown in this Wikipedia article on a CIE 1931 xy plot. How many of these ellipses are contained in the CIE xy space? The DXO site has similar ellipses for real world camera images.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacAdam_ellipse
See this RIT FAQ for a more sober real world analysis. The actual number of colors is in the millions, but likely not 16 million.
http://www.cis.rit.edu/mcsl/outreach/faq.php?catnum=1#219
In a real world situation, I would not be overly concerned about differences between the RGB and HSB spaces, but one could increase precision by using a 48 bit space.

Color Space Question For Printing

I have multiple newbie questions so please bear with me
Normally when working in photoshop, I tend to use the RGB color space as I need the use of filters and other effects not available in CMYK, Now when printing flyers E.g A4 Sized I tend to save the PSD in RGB (Without Flattening) and then importing it into a CMYK color space in illustrator and then exporting as a PDF, as illustrator gives me the option to create bleed as well as trim marks, I have never exported a PDF from photoshop as it always gives me the option of photoshop pdf which is kinda heavy.
My question is, is the process I use okay for printing? or do I first need to convert it into CMYK? or just export from photoshop itself? Also, the other reason I use illustrator is if i'm making a business card with two sides, since text is better exported from illustrator.
Could anyone tell me a simpler process for creating for digital print? Especially if I need to do some items in illustrator as well.

>> images are still a bit washed out with a warmish/ yellow cast to them, particularly, my black and white images
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if the monitor profile is reasonably good:
Open a RGB file in Photoshop (flatten if not already flattened).
Press M key> Drag a selection> Com+Shift+U (Desaturate).
Com+Z (to toggle back and forth).
If the unsaturated selection looks neutral you've got a reasonably fair monitor profile.
If selection has color casts (not neutral) -- you have a bad monitor profile
+++++
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if a bad monitor profile is whacking out your Photoshop color:
Monitors/Displays (control panel)> Color> highlight AppleRGB or sRGB (don't run Calibrate), quit and reboot.
If the Photoshop colors are back under control, then the problem was most surely a bad monitor profile go back into Monitors/Displays> Color and Calibrate a good profile highlight (load) sRGB, or preferably, the monitor's OEM profile as a starting point.
If you are using a puck, it is likely defective; or your monitor hardware is the culprit...search it on Google by model number

Color Space Question... using Lagarith Lossless Codec.

Hi all,
I use the Lagarith Lossless Codec for all my source editing files importing into Premiere Pro and for exporting to my encoder I use.
My question is this. I found that most of my sources are in YUV color space, so when I prep them for editing using VirtualDub, etc... I export them to Lagarith Lossless Codec in the YUY2 color space setting. The size difference between using RGB and YUY2 is enough to make me want to just use YUY2. So when editing those prepped files in YUY2 in Premiere Pro and them exporting the in the same YUY2 color space configuration, does it degrade in quality at all? I heard somewhere that Premiere Pro ONLY edits in RGB color space. So am I really messing up here or is it safe to do what I am doing?
Thanks in advance!

Premiere Pro will keep the color space of the original media. And many of the effects can now also operate in YUV space (They are marked by the YUV icon.) However, any effects you use that are not marked with that icon will force an RGB conversion.

Color space question for photoshop cs on mac os10

I'm sure this has been beaten to death here before. I've been dealing with color space issues for months now, and I'm about at my wits end.
I realize that I should be saving in sRGB in order to get the same looking photo on the web that I get in photoshop. I go image-mode- convert to profile- destination space- profile: srgb profile. I've tried saving for web. I check "ICC" when I do that. When I just save an image as a jpeg (from a tiff), I check the box that says, "embed color profile." Still, my images look washed out on my website (which I made with iweb)- which I'm trying to put my images in a new web interface (flash palette) and my images STILL look washed out. The weird thing is, I NEVER have this issue when I upload images to photobucket or to the photography forum that I frequent.
What the heck am I doing wrong??
Thanks,
Hope

>> images are still a bit washed out with a warmish/ yellow cast to them, particularly, my black and white images
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if the monitor profile is reasonably good:
Open a RGB file in Photoshop (flatten if not already flattened).
Press M key> Drag a selection> Com+Shift+U (Desaturate).
Com+Z (to toggle back and forth).
If the unsaturated selection looks neutral you've got a reasonably fair monitor profile.
If selection has color casts (not neutral) -- you have a bad monitor profile
+++++
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if a bad monitor profile is whacking out your Photoshop color:
Monitors/Displays (control panel)> Color> highlight AppleRGB or sRGB (don't run Calibrate), quit and reboot.
If the Photoshop colors are back under control, then the problem was most surely a bad monitor profile go back into Monitors/Displays> Color and Calibrate a good profile highlight (load) sRGB, or preferably, the monitor's OEM profile as a starting point.
If you are using a puck, it is likely defective; or your monitor hardware is the culprit...search it on Google by model number

Srgb color space question

Does Lightroom convert jpg files to srgb color space when exporting?

LR converts them to the colorspace specified on the Export panel. There are several choices, including sRGB. You may need to expand various sections to see the option.

Print & color space question

Have an illustrator cs6 file I just sent to a client for printing. It has linked rgb and CMYK files. When I sent the file I forgot to convert the rgb images to CMYK. They were linked psd and tiff files. Don't have direct contact with who will print. Do I need to worry about the RGB images outputting poorly? Or will Illustrator handle the conversion ok just in case printer doesn't check the files carefully.

You haven't said a word about what kind of document it is or what kind of images it contains.
For all anyone trying to advise you knows, it could be a $60,000 press run of a poster for the next blockbuster movie. Or it could be a $60 run of a flier for the local Girl Scout troop. Or anything in between.
The image may be a commissioned studio portrait of the hottest current rock star. Or it may be a simple geometric graphic for which no one but you knows the "correct" color anyway.
I'm not being a wise-guy. I'm making a point that far too many people who sweat blood over color calibration overlook entirely: How color critical is it? That's the first and foremost consideration regarding any practical answer to your question.
Designers have been placing RGB images in documents destined for process separation ever since the 80s, and the vast majority of the time, for most practical purposes, the automatic conversion to CMYK comes out fine.
It's quite doubtful that anyone is going to hold a spectrophotometer up to your printed piece and then publicly crucify you as a color-ignorant dolt. (There are plenty of such dolts sweating blood over hair-splitting color calibration, all the while oblivious to the far more dramatic improvement possible with a little color correction.)
It's probably just fine; but so far only you know how color-critical the job is.
JET

Question: sRGB color space profile icm

I am trying to convert a file to color space sRGB color space profile.icm. The profile is located in my library on my hard drive under recommended profiles but it does not appear in the drop down menu under edit/convert to profile. Any ideas about why? I have performed this task on my MAC at my college but can't seem to do it on my MAC in my studio...

LR converts them to the colorspace specified on the Export panel. There are several choices, including sRGB. You may need to expand various sections to see the option.

Can you show slideshow within Lightroom 4.4 in Adobe RGB color space?

Can you show slideshow within Lightroom 4.4 (not export out from LR) in Adobe RGB color space provided that you are using a wide gamut monitor which is capable and hardware calibrated & profiled to show such color space?
If this is possible, what is required to do so in Windows 8 and i7-4770 & HD Graphics 4600 platform or does LR take care of it automatically?
This is very basic question, however, I could not find a clear answer/info from LR documentation, so wish that someone can advice.

Those settings are probably stored in a plist somewhere in ~/Library/Preferences. If you can locate the appropriate file, you should be able to copy it to all the network user folders.

Asking the Bridge Team: Bridge "working color space" setting when one does not have the Suite?

Common sense tells me there is really no such thing as a
"working color space" in Bridge, because
Bridge is not an image editor, just a browser
Therefore, this may turn out to be a purely academic question; but that doesn't keep my curiosity from forcing me to ask it anyway. ;)
Is there a way to set the Bridge
"color settings" when one does not have the suite?
The only Adobe program I keep up to date is Photoshop, so I've never had the suite. My version of Photoshop is 11 (CS4) and I run updated
(not upgraded) versions of Adobe Acrobat 7.x, Illustrator 10.x and InDesign 2.x. Consequently, the Synchronize color settings command is not available to me.
It seems to me that Bridge is behaving like a proper color-managed browser (e.g. Firefox with color management enabled), in that it displays tagged image files correctly and assumes sRGB for untagged image files. This normally works fine.
But what if I wanted Bridge to assume my
Photoshop color working space for untagged images
so that it behaves the same as Photoshop? I'm just curious, as I deal with a minuscule, practically negligible amount of untagged files.
My reason for bringing it up now is that I don't recall this being explicitly mentioned in forum replies when users inquire about color settings in Bridge. A recent post regarding Version Cue in the Photoshop Macintosh forum got me thinking about this. Just wanting to make sure that I'm right in my assumption that
there is really no such thing as a
"working color space" in Bridge, because Bridge is not an image editor, just a browser.
Thanks in advance.

Hi Ramón,
Thanks for sharing the outcome of your tests. However, I may have found a bug/exception to Bridge's colour management policy!
It appears that CMYK EPS photoshop files are not colour managed in Adobe Bridge, even if they contain an embedded ICC profile.
I've tried every combination in the EPS 'Save As' dialogue box, so it doesn't seem to be an issue with file encoding. Also, Bridge doesn't rely on the low-res preview that is held within the EPS itself.
My guess is that Bridge is previewing the CMYK EPS with a Bridge-generated RGB image, but it's being displayed as monitor RGB (assigned) rather than colour managed (converted to monitor RGB). For most users the difference will be barely perceptible, but the problem became very noticeable when using Bridge to preview Newsprint CMYK images on a wide-gamut monitor (images that should have appeared muted really leapt off the screen!).
How do I report this to the Colour Police at Adobe?!?

Rendering Chroma 4:2:2 with color space 0-255

Hello Everyone.
Just as a warning I'm fairly new to video editing, so I will probably not say this right. I have a screen recording that I used FRAPS to collect, and then I packaged it into an .AVI container w/ a lararith codec , and a 24bit RGB color scheme in video dub. I have then opened and edited that video in Premiere Pro and want to export it. The problem that I'm having is screen recording has a LOT of color between 0-16 and 235-255, so any broadcast color space I use makes the video look awful. I was wondering if anyone knows how I can render out with a 0-255 color space and a decent chroma subsampling (my guess is 4:2:2).
Thank you everyone for your help.

No, you are asking the right question, and I understand your problem. I just can't recreate it.
I just took a really wild Quicktime video I downloaded from Videoblocks.com that isn't anywhere close to being broadcast safe, and I exported it to a Windows Media file.
The first picture is a screenshot from the video. (it is a set of lower thirds in one video - I am just supposed to use one at a time of course.
The second picture is the Reference monitor from frame 12;24
I exported the sequence to a Windows Media file and then imported it, putting it right on top of the other video on the sequence so I could make sure to be on the exact same frame. The third picture is the reference monitor from the WMV file on the sequence. As you can see, there is not much difference. Some, but you have to look closely.
So, my question to you, since I do not use FRAPS, is what are your sequence setting? Did you just drop a clip on the New button to create a new sequence with the exact right settings? And, are you making the mistake of using the renders to help you export?
The problem is that I don't understand your source material. I guess I could download FRAPS from somewhere and give it a try? I am just a bit busy with other things today.

The availability of color space in RAW, TIFF and JPEG files

This is useful if your new to DSLR photography.
This is Nikon response on my question in the discussion: View photo metadata
I'm assuming that you know that Adobe RGB shows about 50% and sRGB 35% of CIELAB color space.
In a DSLR camera like the Nikon D800 you can select a color space (Adobe RGB or sRGB) in the shooting menu.
In Adobe Lightroom 4.3 the RAW metadata shows no color space info. Therefore I asked why not?
In the (Dutch) Nikon D800 manual on page 84 (about RAW) and 274 (about color space) and Nikon FAQ website there is no descripton about the color space availability/behavior in RAW, JPEG and TIFF files.
In the book "Mastering the Nikon D800 by Darrel Young" on page 125 - 126 is written: "If you shoot in RAW format a lot, you may want to consider using Adobe RGB....."
All experts on this forum answered: color space does not apply/affect the RAW data file or RAW files have no color space.
The respone of Nikon Europe Support (Robert Vermeulen) was: In Nikon D800 NEF RAW files both color spaces (Adobe RGB and sRGB) are always physically available. In JPEG and TIFF files only the in the shooting menu selected color space is physically available. So the forum experts gave the correct answer!
Of course you can convert afterwards a JPEG or TIFF file with sRGB color space to Adobe RGB but you don't get more colors.
When you install the Microsoft Camera Codec Pack or FastPictureViewer Codec Pack they only show color space metadata for JPEG and TIFF files and nothing for RAW because color space "doesn't exist". I thought the codec packs removed the color space metadata for my RAW files.
Adobe Lightroom also can not show color space for RAW files because that "doesn't exist".

Van-Paul wrote:
The respone of Nikon Europe Support (Robert Vermeulen) was: In Nikon D800 NEF RAW files both color spaces (Adobe RGB and sRGB) are physically available. In JPEG and TIFF files only the in the shooting menu selected color space is physically available.
I still think this is an evasive answer that doesn't really pinpoint the exact chain of events that take place. They are:
1. The raw file contains the naked data captured by the sensor. This is just a very dark grayscale image.
2. In the raw converter it is encoded into a working color space to process the information. In Lightroom this is known as "Melissa RGB", or linear gamma Prophoto. It is also demosaiced to bring back the color information.
3. From Lightroom it can be exported to one of the familiar color spaces like sRGB or Adobe RGB. This is, in principle at least, a normal profile conversion.
These three steps are what the camera does to produce a jpeg. So the basic steps are the same, the camera is just doing it automatically (and usually butchering the image in the process...).
This Darrell Young is, I'm sure, an excellent photographer, but in this he is seriously confused and just propagating a common myth. Anyway, thanks for bringing up this discussion, hope you didn't object too much to the tone of the answers... Our only concern here was to get this right and with no room for misunderstanding.

Color Space Management & Final Color Output-not WYSIWYG?

I have constantly had problems with getting final output color to match what i am seeing on my monitors when color correcting. This has been a continual problem mainly with R3d footage and going to Prores...but for the sake of this discussion here is my prime example:
Start a new project in PrPro and clor from PrPro adding effects, 3 way color, 3rd party effects like Finesse and Colorista...then output the project to Tiff for master then convert from Tiff sequence to Prorest; H264 or anything else....But, when i output a prores file, and then open the prores file on its own--not brining it back into Premier...i notice a shift in colors....completely desaturated etc...this happens whehter i choose for gamma as "auto" or "none" when choosing codec settings for prores. I've had this continual problem for many years and the ONLY way i have found it to work is by using Apple's Color and then going to Prores....seems apple hardware and software work well together...but this cannot be an isolated incident with me only...AND coloring a project on your desktop and putting all that work into it and seeing it DIFFERENT at the end of the day is more than a let down...
...so maybe a discussion on properly setting a project for color work is in order...I came across another forum members website reToolednet and he had some great info on setting up the sequence timeline and video preview area that is great info...but even when i do that i cannot get a perfect match at the end of the output....Exapmples below all done in PrPro and then output to Prores 4444.
I've found info on Adobe site that does not seem current about setting project settings and color space, but no place in PrPro do i find that setting...is this only AE? OR...can we even do a proper color job within PrPr? or should that be done elsewhere?
Id like to go through the proper steps of setting workspace and color schemes for say a Prores output since that is likely 75% to 90% of everyone's deliverables in the tv realm....
Snapsot of Tiff sequence WITHIN PrPro (colored)
Final Output from PrPro to Prores--snap from actual QT prores file--(Desaturated)
When i began this project i had my sequence settings to R3d 1080p @ 29.97 and video previews to Iframe....
**NOW, i think i would have been better off to change video preview to my final output of Prores 4444...BUT, i tried that and still see a color shift.
**Note, i oriingally colored this on 5.5 with Matrox out to my color corrected monitors....and results on those monitors DO and WILL be diffrent than what you see on your computer screen....my monitors were set to rec709 and RGB at end of the line for viewing....but i see nothing within PrPro on how to set this....however at end of the day i do not get what i see on my preview monitors....

Thanks Jim....yes, i'm covered on all cc monitors and quite used ot viewing output on color calibrated...as well viewing both on the same platform/monitor....The BIG question is PrPr being able to do color work---and my question is why would it have all the color effects if it did not? But i agree with you....first place to start is can you do proper color work on PrPr AT ALL? no problem to do a quick web video...but can you properly color a for television product---I seem to think NO....i could not get colors in end to match....i can view out on PrPr view my I/O box (Matrox MXO2) and see great colors that i colored the project on to my FSI color corrected monitor....but then when i view the ProRes file back (not on PrPro)...but on it's own with its own codec engine...this is where things go awry and stray from colors i originally put on the images...
But this is a PARAMOUNT subject as Pr is offering coloring....i hate to bring this in, but in FCP i can get accurate colors on my Matrox and same when rendered out to Prores file....Again, i think Apple plays well with apple.....but as you say, there are a great number of varialbes involved in the preferences etc...within PrPr...seems to me AE may be better just by reading about it...but why not both?

Color problem with ProPhoto RGB color space

Hi, everyone,
I have wery special problem I think. I use MacBook pro 15" with retina display, adobe Photoshop CC and when I export RAW (from Nikon D7000) from Lightroom 5 to Photoshop with settings: 16 bit TIF, color space: ProPhoto RGB I have a problem with displaying the correct colors. As you can see in this picture:
My problem are some "green" artefacts in absolutely black and white picture. I tried myself to solve this problem and found the following facts: when I convert picture into Adobe RGB or sRGB color space is everything OK - without green artefacts.
But here is one important fact: I have calibrated monitor by datacolor spyder4elite and problem with ProPhoto RGB incorrect color displaying is only when the color calibration configuration is loaded. When I change my display calibration to standard apple color LCD profile than is everything OK.
But using uncalibrated monitor and also Adobe RGB color space are no right solutions for me.
My question is why I have problem with displaying ProPhoto RGB color space in photoshop under calibrated monitor profile and can anybody help me please?
Thanks for answers.

That's a classic example of the basic problem with 16 bit color. There is no solution that I know of.

PDF in CMYK color space?

I'm working on the most recent version of Pages from iWork 2008 running on the most recent version of Leopard, and I have to create a PDF in the CMYK color space for publication, but I do not have Acrobat Distiller.
Is it possible to create a CMYK PDF with ColorSync filters? I have tried using the "Generate PDF-X/3" filter, with "Generic CMYK" as the target profile and transparency flattening, but the printer still says that my PDF is in the RGB color space. If not, is there any other way to create a CMYK PDF from Pages or to convert a RGB PDF or PostScript file to CMYK using ColorSync Utility? Are there any alternatives without purchasing Adobe Acrobat? What about if I first convert images to the CMYK color space before importing them to Pages?
I have seen similar questions posted elsewhere, but I can't find a straight answer anywhere.

1. Obtain the ICC profile from the printer for his output device.
Correct. Either the shop printing condition or an ISO 12647 printing condition to which the shop can configure and calibrate the printing condition it is selling you. If the latter, you can get default ICC printer profiles for standard printing conditions at www.eci.org.
2. Create a filter in ColorSync Utility for generating PDF/X-3 documents with the ICC profile as the output intent (besides flattening the transparency and applying an appropriate resolution).
Correct.
3. Print to PDF in Pages.
Incorrect.
Your PDF/X-3 filter will become available in the system dialog for File > Print > Save as PDF. In saving as PDF you pick your PDF/X-3 filter as the template for the save process.
4. Use ColorSync Utility to modify the resulting PDF with the filter I created in ColorSync Utility.
(or 3-4. Print directly to PDF through the filter from Pages)
Your second step to combine 3 and 4 is correct, your first step 4 to save to disk and then postprocess in the ColorSync utility is incorrect.
5. Send this PDF/X-3 to the printer.
Correct.
It seems that no hard conversion from RGB to CMYK should be necessary if I take these steps, is that correct?
Correct.
If I send the printer a PDF in the RGB color space, should it cause problems for him to convert the PDF himself to the color space of his output device?
No.
You create three channel RGB images in the RGB colourant data model (it's just a model, it is not a colour space which a size and a shape of the gamut).
You save your colourants to disk in TIFF or PDF format with the ICC profile for the capture colour space (e.g. the ICC profile for your specific scanner with a Kodak EktaChrome IT8) or correction colour space (e.g. Joseph Holmes' RGB working space for EktaChrome). This ICC profile is the _colour space_ that you can view in the ColorSync Utility as a specific size and shape of gamut. The colour space determines what colours the colourants in your TIFF or PDF image should reproduce on different colour devices.
You now have a pagination with photographic objects in three component RGB, and you know what colours those colourants are supposed to reproduce. You then include the production profile for the printing condition. Your source profiles must match to this destination profile in the matching session, so all your photographs get converted to the SAME ink limit, the SAME graybalance and so forth. This unifies the inking behaviour and the colour formation for your printing.
If you imagine that in your pagination you place photographs which are manually converted into four component CMYK using a different ink limit, a different graybalance and so forth then you have not unified your inking behavour and colour formation for the printing process. This is IDIOTIC because the only way to correct in this case is to change the calibration of the individual inking zones on the offset press - increasing or decreasing the cyan, magenta, yellow or black for that zone.
It used to be that lithography on the press was the only way to work. This was in the days of EPS and EPS DCS, and before that in the days of photographic printing masters pasted together manually piece by piece to make the printing planes. Nobody in their right mind works that way today.
/hh

Color Space Question

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