SSD Trim in 10.6.7

Trim for SSD in Mac OS X 10.6.7?????

There is an entry and has been for awhile in System Profiler going back to about when SSDs were included as BTO in Macs.
thessdreview
To step back a bit, the process of deleting a file with SSDs is such that the index is simply removed which tricks the system into believing the space is available. This issue was recognized early on where extreme slowing was observed in SSDs that had reached the point where all their space had been written to because, then, writing a block of data meant reading the are to be written to, deleting old data and then writing new data.
TRIM then came along where data blocks with deleted files were cleared automatically long before new data had to be written. This then ensured a faster SSD as the process of writing was simply reading the block to ensure it was clean and then writing the information.
Wear Leveling algorithms are a process whereby the firmware can actually ensure that each block of NAND is used evenly.
http://thessdreview.com/our-reviews/ocz-revodrive-x2-100gb-pcie-ssd-review-faste st-consumer-ssd-available/
Inside an SSD's DNA
http://www.diskeeper.com/blog/post/2010/12/31/Inside-SSDs.aspx
Here is Diskeeper on SSD and defrag (Windows):
http://www.diskeeper.com/blog/post/2011/01/18/Is-it-wrongunsafe-to-defrag-an-SSD .aspx
Optimizing SSD
http://forum.corsair.com/upload/Optimizing-Solid-State-Storage-with-HyperFast-Te chnology.pdf
What Microsoft has learned about SSD technology
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/e7/archive/2009/05/05/support-and-q-a-for-solid-state-dr ives-and.aspx
Corair: Restoring SSD performance and imaging Disk
http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=85344
http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-SSD-Reconditioning.html#Fixing
SSD support in SoftRAID 4
http://www.softraid.com/features.html
Great article from Wikipedia -
Write amplification (WA) is a phenomenon associated with Flash memory and solid-state drives (SSDs)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_amplification
OWC Mercury SSDs are top of the line though now with latest Sand Force 1200 and above there are a number of top tier SSDs to choose from (and Intel's 3G).
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internalstorage/Mercury_Extreme_SSDSandforce
http://macperformanceguide.com/SSD-RealWorld-SevereDuty.html
http://www.storagereview.com/best_drives
I'm using some Corsair F90 Sand Force but I was using 10K mechanical drives usually in RAID, so now it is small, fast, quieter and only one drive where I was using 2-3 before.
There are naysayers that will say TRIM isn't needed, but I'd really try to read what

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SSD Trim and recovery software

I have a crucial MX100 512G ssd and I know the windows 10 SSD optimize tool is SSD trim. However, after I ran the SSD optimization showing 100% trimmed, I noticed the trim didn't work because I could still recover my deleted files via data recovery software ( such as disk drill and others). Does it mean TRIM function will not wipe the block unless I do secure erase on the SSD, and people can still recover their deleted files even the SSD has TRIM function? I thought if SSD has TRIM, deleted data could not be recovered. ( I even left the computer idle over night, and I could still recover the files I deleted).

dummykid, have you checked files integrity after the recovery? That is, for example, if you have recovered .jpg file with a photo were the photo viewable?
The main function of TRIM is not to make data unrecoverable. Making data unrecoverable is a side effect of TRIM, one could say.
When a file is deleted from the drive the space it used to occupy should be TRIMmed and usually it occurs very fast. Recovery tools however, can still usually find the file with its name and attributes (size). This is because some data about old/deleted files can still be left in MFT (master file table) area.
When you delete data from the drive TRIM sends information to the SSD controller to help it clear the corresponding NAND parts. But I belive that the MFT works the same way with or without TRIM, that is it still stores some data related to deleted files, like name and size. But it is file content you really want to recover, not the file name and attributes only. Recovery tool will find the name and attributes of the file and it will recreate that file with the data taken from the drive, but the data itself can be completely different from the original or even empty. Check that out!
On my SSD I can 'recover' many photos (.jpg files) but they are unreadable, some of them have some random data and some have no data inside.

OSX 10.7, SSDs, TRIM, and so on...

Okay, so I have played with Windows 7 Home Premium on this wonderful little Booklet 3g for some time now. I hate it.
I am a Mac guy, through and through, and this will never change.
I have been running both Linux Mint 11 and Ubuntu 11.04 for the past two weeks and love them on the Booklet 3g, but the same ugly moster rears its head at every turn - the GMA 500 chip. What a lame and disappointing choice!
I found a Poulsbo driver for Ubuntu that *sort of* works (anecdoatal information - I have yet to try it) and a terminal apt-get command to (I think) install the same exact file in Mint 11. It works, but the cursor flickers non-stop and a lot of the tasty features of the GMA 500 are still locked out. At least the resolution is correct and looks great. Nice!
So, the main problems with putting on my retail Mac OSX disc (purchased just for such a project) was that the GMA 500 is not supported at all and there is NO SOUND - in OR out! This is a deal breaker for me as I am a musician and use Finale as my killer app. I MUST have working sound.
So no OSx86 foolishness (ahem - testing) for this Booklet right now.
However, Lion is WAY faster than anything ever in the line of OSX versions, AND it now has TRIM support for all Macs. (Recent versions of Snow Leopard have had it for MacBook pros that have the SSD option.)
With Lion being so cool (multitouch wonders and TRIM) and so fast, the idea of upgrading my Nokia with a decent SSD is now very attractive. And I may reinstall Win7HP, but will probably just stay with Linux Mint 11. If the OSx86 community manages to figure out Lion for this computer I might go that route as well as I would love to make this more comfortable and familiar to me if I am to use it a lot on the road as a Finale box.
Questions (after all that - sorry!):
If I am to use something OTHER THAN WINDOWS as my OS (the most likely scenario for thus netbook) which SSD would be the best choice for me? Does this even matter? I do not know if Mint has TRIM support, but Lion does for certain. Will that affect my choices?
With the plethora of Linux distros out today, which one seems to work best with this hardware setup? Joli OS (formerly JoliCloud) supports GMA 500 BEAUTIFULLY but is not a full OS. In my experience you have to have a connection even to get to the desktop. It is not cloud-based as they claim, but cloud-centric. If you are offline it is useless, or so my experiences have been. I HOPE this is incorrect as I really like the Joli OS quite a lot. Mint is do-able with tweaks for the GMA 500. Eveything else *just works* as it should. I like it. Any reason to change?
TRIM support is really needed isn't it? I do not fully understand it, but am stoked that the Mac OS now comes with it. Now I can try SSDs in my new iMac 27" i5 (it has the capability but is probably not fun to install. I will have to see about this.
Thanks for reading this rambling post. I have a lot of great ideas for this netbook, but because of the GMA 500 chip it seems like a lot of interest has waned. Shame about the RAM, too. What an idiotic idea. Oh, and the PATA/SATA bridge. Oh, dear. Maybe I need to sell this thing after all... ;-)
the elephant
mississippi, usa

In practicality you can't. You can set the preference in the Privacy pane of the Safari preferences to ask websites not to track you, but I don't believe Google honors that setting, and they most certainly store all sorts of cookies which you probably will get even if you set Safari to block all cookies since web programmers have ways around those blocks. All you can do is delete the cookies and other junk on a regular basis. Many cookies hide, so I use Cookie from SweetP productions which does a good job of deleting most if not all of the cruft web sites leave.
Regards.
Disclaimer: any product suggestion and link given is strictly for reference and represents my opinion only. No warranties express or implied. I get no personal benefit from the sale of any product I may recommend in any of my posts in the Discussions. Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited. You must be this tall to ride. Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear. Preservatives added to improve freshness. Contestants have been briefed on some questions before the show. No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

Question about ssd Trim in boot camp.

we all know that mac osx wont support trim function for ssd. Now if i installed win7 on boot camp. can i use boot camp to use trim?

Why not post in the Boot Camp forum? That's where you are more likely to find your answer.
http://discussions.apple.com/category.jspa?categoryID=237

SSD, TRIM, and Yosemite

I have a mid-2010 MacBook Pro that is showing its age. I decided a few weeks ago to perform an upgrade; to up the RAM from 4 to 8, and install an SSD, especially since the rave reviews I have read and the price drop over the last year or so. This has led me to read many many reports about possible issues with 3rd party SSD and how Apple has decided to update Yosemite that will not allow TRIM function. I'm curious is there anyone out there that can provide some real insight and knowledge. I know that there is a hack to disable the settings so you can still use TRIM, but I also read that for some of the new SSD you really don't need it. I don't know if that is true. And researching website after blog after message board, to hear both sides and I'm really up in the air. I can't afford a new laptop, but also can't afford to dump a couple hundred bucks into my current unit only to have it slow down over a short period of time, putting me back to square one. Not to derail the thread before it gets going but also wanted to see what everyone's opiniin is for brand of SSD. I'm leaning toward Samsung 850 evo but also like the comparable version of Crucial. My unit only supports SATA II, so maybe there is a better bang for my buck since that limitation.

Here is an article from the OWC blog on TRIM:
http://blog.macsales.com/21641-with-an-owc-ssd-theres-no-need-for-trim
I found this question and answer at the bottom of the article about the speed issue. In the answer, it's noted that the limitation exists on all 6G drives on his computer. Does that mean all 6g drives or just their Mercury 6g drives? I don't know the answer to that, but from what it implies, it means any 6g drives.
Marko.P @ 4:42 am on December 26, 2014
As I finally installed OS X Yosemite on OWC SSD and I tested it for speed…
But what should be the speed (read/write) on my new SSD, because I tested it yesterday (with Blackmagic Disk Speed Test) and it shows only write: 110MB read: 135MB is it possible???
Reply
OWC Ben M @ 10:47 am on December 29, 2014
Those speeds are normal for a 6G SSD in your iMac. As mentioned in the compatibility section of the 240GB Mercury Electra 6G SSD, A 6G SSD will only run at SATA 1.0 (1.5G aka 150MB/s) on certain Macs. This is due to the Nvidia SATA controller found in these computers not being able to properly down clock a SATA 3.0 6G SSD to the expected SATA 2.0 3G your computer is capable of. This limitation exists on all 6G drives on your computer.
As I said, check your model identifier and check to see if it is affected. Not all models are affected by this. If your computer is one of the affected models, then you will have to decide on taking a chance on other 6g SSD brands. They may be fine, but I just don't know.
Please remember that I'm not trying to put down other brands or steer you to an OWC. It's what I have and I can't comment on other brands because I've not tried any.

SSD Trim

I have Trim Support but how does this work? Is Trim automatic or can I initiate the process??

Shootist007 wrote:
Google "TRIM, How does it work".
You will get pages and pages for you to read and learn.
And once he learns, he can tell someone else in the future to "Google "TRIM, How does it work."
When people Google for help, a lot of that help is found on forums because others took the time to actually answer questions and explain things, unlike your reply that helps no one unless they want to go study a while. Anyone finding this forum while searching for answers (like I did) will get no help whatsoever. Most of the time what people need is a quick answer, not an education.
If you really wanted to be helpful, you should have provided links to pertinent information like these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_%28computing%29
http://solid-state-drive-review.toptenreviews.com/what-is-trim-support.html
http://www.techspot.com/news/52835-understanding-ssds-the-need-for-trim-overprov isioning-and-more.html
BTW, how'd you get to level 6 if all you do is tell people to go Google and learn?

Lion RAID0 SSD TRIM support

Hi all,
From what I've read so far it would appear that if I go to a RAID 0 SSD setup in my Macbook Pro... I'll lose TRIM support, even if both disks support TRIM by themselves?
I've got an Apple Supplied 128GB SSD and a Samsung 470 series 128GB SSD... I was thinking of reinstalling Lion (yes I have the bootable DVD) and configuring them in RAID 0, mainly to get one large 250-256GB volume...
Also, a lot of people are saying that 64Kb stripe size is the way to go....
Finally, someone mentioned about putting the disk utility into developer mode to elinimate the recovery partition off the Apple SSD?
Thanks for all feedback.

Cindy,
Thanks for the quick reply. If I'm understanding correctly, the SCSI unmap command was implemented in last November's Solaris 11.1 release but has since been disabled due to performance problems. I'm running the original November release with no updates so can I assume that SCSI unmap is enabled on my system? If so, do I run any risk of data corruption by staying with my current version? I'm currently running Solaris 11.1 from a SATA SSD.

Thunderbolt SSD TRIM option

Hi there.
I run iMac 27 (late 2013) with Core i5 CPU and 1 Tb HDD on board.
As you may know internal HDD's performance is not good in comparison with SSD, so I decided to buy external Thunderbolt SSD at apple web store and to instal OS X on it to increase system productivity.
However I read a lot concerning issues with impossibility to activate TRIM option on 3rd party's SSD manufactures. It seems TRIM is vital option for any SSD, and here is the question: shall TRIM be enabled, when running OS X on external Thunderbolt SSD (for example LaCie Rugged Thunderbolt SSD and etc.)
Cheers.

With an SSD from OWC, there's apparently no need for TRIM. In fact, OWC suggests disabling TRIM when using Yosemite.
http://blog.macsales.com/27116-disable-trim-before-upgrading-to-yosemite
http://blog.macsales.com/11051-to-trim-or-not-to-trim-owc-has-the-answer
...but I can't speak for prior Mac systems.

Where is the thinkpad x120e SSD TRIM driver?

i have a thinkpad x120e and i recently upgraded the harddrive to a OCZ agility 3 SSD. i read this post here to get the AMD SATA drivers, however the links are dead, i tried searching on the AMD site with no results, where can I get these drivers so I can enable TRIM on my SSD?
here is the post I was talking abou with the dead linkst: http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X120e-hard-drive-replacement/td-p/398635/page/...

Hello,
I had found the page a while ago when I went hunting for the latest drivers from AMD for my X120e. I believe that the X120e has a chipset which performs similar to AMD's 700 or 800 series chipset, but has been optimized for use with the E-Series CPU in terms of power management, probably due to a more efficient manufacturing process (just a guess on my part).
I installed all of the packages on my ThinkPad X120e. No problems noted after doing so.
Regards,
Aryeh Goretsky
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MOVED: SSD trim support on legacy ATA

This topic has been moved to Windows 64bit.
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=135446.0

Here is an example of a USB3 enclosure that will support SSD speeds:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003VKTJGW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&coli d=16WHQQ1HVMSYP&coliid=I3ILBGHOZ5JA43
or better yet:
http://www.amazon.com/MiniPro-FireWire-External-Enclosure-Silver/dp/B00655YT9C/r ef=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1398558272&sr=1-3&keywords=minipro+enclosure

Does SSD Trim work at disk or partition level?

Trim is enabled on my MacBook Pro (About this Mac etc), but the HD has a Bootcamp partition on it.
My belief is that the Bootcamp partition is not being trimmed...is this right? (Would love to be wrong)
As I understand it Trim in Windows 7 can only be enabled in AHCI mode and enabling AHCI seems difficult. Has anyone done it and got Trim working on a Bootcamp partition.

What kind of authentication do you use?
 Custom auth
 
 Did you put any processes on the login page after the "clear" process which is right after the "login" process?
 No. On the 101 page "30 Clear Page(s) Cache Clear Cache for all Items on Pages (PageID,PageID,PageID)" is the last process. But we do some db logging in db (IP, user logged).
 
 
 Check the request log to see if there is a request/url with more info about the item name that might be causing the problem.
 Could you be a little more specific
 
 BTW, could you at least tell me why this error happened? In few words...
 
 I see on forum that there are many points on that. We are receiving only that error. Shouldn't be after that some ORA...like:
Error ERR-1002 Unable to find item ID for item "REQUEST" in application "110". We do not get any error at all? Isn't that strange?

SSD Trim question:

question: Trim (not sure I fully understand it) but If you wipe the drive clean, does it retain its original speed?

For my early Intels, that worked for quite awhile to maintain the top speeds. But it was erratic and didn't last for long, sometimes not even throughout the day. As I understand it, OCZ doesn't recommend this so I haven't it tried it with them.
For my Intels I used to clone them, wipe the drives with DU, and copy the clone back again. I used Superduper to make the clones.
This is what I experienced, for example: With 3 80GB Intels in Raid 0, I was getting consistent top speeds of 730 MB/s Read. After only a few days, sometimes the same day, that would go down as low as 700 MB/s. Erasing the drive brought them back up again.
Now, however, after about 6 months(?), their top speeds are around 700 MB/s and I can longer get them higher. I've used QuickBench to gauge results in the $15 version of SpeedTools Test Suite.
"Trim", as I understand it, is either a function built into the drive, the OS, or both. I'm sure Wiki has something on it.

Trim (SSD) in 10.6.7 - ? and what happens to the SSD if not?

Am I up to date in assuming that there is no way to know when 10.6.7 will be released or whether it'll allow for using the trim function on SSDs (for all, not bizarrely just for new MacBooks)? And, second question, if 10.7 will indeed provide this function for all who's hardware permits it (like all MacPro, I guess)—what will happen to an SSD when in use for, say, 4 months without trimming? Will it degrade irreversibly, or will the use of that trim function then set it to the state it would have been in when trimming for 4 months constantly?
thanks a lot

There are a number of users, and threads, about using SSDs.
TRIM is an OS level feature.
OWC switched to Sand Force and the SF controllers have their own background garbage collection. I haven't seen much about the newest SF-2000s yet.
Allow for over provisioning (when I formatted a couple SSDs, Disk Utility seem to 'map' 5GB or 10%, not sure which, so maybe it sets aside some). I just would get a drive that has extra space.
You'll find Wikipedia has excellent articles on SSD, TRIM, write amplification and more. And Diskeeper blog has an article on the inner workings of SSD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_amplification
No it won't be irreversible if there is some. Just keep a backup clone though. And keep SSD to just OS and apps, or if using for scratch, but use a standard mechanical drive for all your data and other purposes.
http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-SSD-Reconditioning.html
There is a whole section devoted to SSD (70% down the page)
http://macperformanceguide.com/index_topics.html
The rest deals in speculation. Old axiom, we'll know when it gets there, not until.

Can't turn on trim support on APPLE SSD SM128

Hello,
I'm hving problem with starting trim support on my SSD (i'm new at this ssd thingy)...as stated in the topic its an APPLE SSD SM128...
I've downloaded and started the Trim Enabler app and rebooted my computer a few times, but still i get the same msg:
"the patch is active, but the trim is not working"!
btw, im on osx 10.8.3
Does anybody know what should i do?

I bought a used late 11' Macbook Pro which came with a apple braned SSD 120gb. I took it out and popped it in my old 06' intel core 2 duo 17" Macbook pro running lion. To enable Trim I downloaded Chameleon SSD, Works GREAT!!
download link
http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/43656/chameleon-ssd-optimizer
Ohh I bought a Samsung 840 pro 256gb and popped that in my late 11' (Mt lion) Macbook pro using Chameleon SSD Trim support on it. That too works flawlessly!!!!!!!!
Good Luck!
Keep us posted.

TRIM Support in Mac SSD

I am about to purchase my first Mac and Im so excited. But before I do I have a question about the SSD. I was not planning on buying the SSD, but instead just going to some 7200RPM HDD but realized the price was only an additional $90, a price you can not just go out and buy one at.
My only concern is the lack of TRIM in Mac OSX. Now, their is speculation (and partial proof) that Lion will have TRIM support, but from what I have researched TRIM is also a hardware variable and not just software. Does anyone know if the new MacBook Pro's SSDs offer TRIM support? Also, will my SSD, by Summer hopefully, be negatively effected by the few months of the lack of TRIM?
Thank you so much,
Ben

You do not need to run any UNIX (or any other) programs to 'TRIM' the drive. If the drive firmware supports TRIM (as all newer drives do) and the operating system supports the TRIM command, you will benefit from this feature. The way TRIM works is this:
When you delete a file from a drive, the operating system marks the space used by the file as free so it can be used again. On a mechanical hard drive this works fine and the space will get written over as needed. Unfortunately, the SSD does not know the difference between erasing a block and writing over it with new data, so they are treated the same. The problem that occurs with SSD is that each block on the drive has a limited number of write cycles it can withstand before failing so the SSD firmware tries to spread out the usage of blocks on the drive by a process called wear-levelling. This ensures that the drives last as long as they need to, but results in fragmentation of the drive. This is a lower level fragmentation than what is typically referred to when discussing hard drive fragmentation and is not really related. This low level fragmentation can result in reduced performance of the drive over time, as blocks are erased and data is moved around by the wear-levelling.
The drive manufacturers have worked wonders trying to minimize this effect with intelligent firmware, but it is still a measurable problem. This is where TRIM comes into play. If the TRIM command (a low level drive command, not something you run from within the operating system) is supported throughout the system, deleting of a file will cause the operating system to issue TRIM to the SSD instead of just marking the blocks as empty as would be done on a mechanical hard disk. The SSD then knows that these blocks are no longer needed and the drive firmware can then clean up more efficiently. The drive firmware will show the space as available (because it is) but will not actually perform a write to that part of the drive until a later time, when enough blocks are ready to be TRIM'd all at once. This works in conjunction with the wear leveling to reduce wear on the flash cells and prevent fragmentation from occurring. For a more detailed description of TRIM, I recommend checking out the articles by Allyn Malventano over at PC Perspective:
http://www.pcper.com/comments.php?nid=7488
That site is mostly geared towards Windows users, but the basics of SSD operation are the same, and Allyn is definitely an expert when it comes to storage technology.
As far as over-provisioning goes, this provides a way to reduce fragmentation without the need for TRIM support (although the SandForce drives also can do TRIM). Over-provisioning involves setting aside a certain amount of flash memory on the SSD (7-28% typically) that is not available (or visible) to the operating system. The firmware uses this extra storage space to more efficiently defragment and wear-level the drive and it is transparent to the operating system. This is why an Intel X25 G2 drive will benefit more from TRIM support than a SandForce based drive like the OWC or Vertex series ones. The above mentioned site also has some good articles about over-provisioning, including comparisons of the same drive with 7% and 28% overhead. It boils down to this: if you have a SandForce drive, TRIM support is not as important because the drive does a good job on its own. If you use a different SSD, TRIM support is very beneficial, and we should all hope that OS X delivers full support for TRIM in the near future. Also, the added expense for the enterprise level (28% over-provisioned) SandForce drives is normally not justified, especially in a single drive setup.

SSD Trim in 10.6.7

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