Startup options for older (tray loading iMac)

Hi All,
I have a hopped up iMac 333 (with Harmoni Firewire) that I'm trying to get refreshed. I've seen the KB of the keyboard startup options for newer Macs, but they claim that these count for slot loading and later. Does anyone have the list of keyboard startup options for older Macs such as mine?
Thanks!
Keith.

Here's a list. All should work except those requiring native FireWire:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75459
Richard

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Using 10.6 NetBoot v1.0 with Tiger client images on PPC tray-loading iMacs

Hi all - I'm a bit confused over some documentation I'm reading. I'm reviewing the "System Imaging and SW Update Admin" guide for Snow Leopard Server (available at http://images.apple.com/server/macosx/docs/SystemImaging_and_SW_Update_Adminv10.6.pdf) and am puzzled on a few things.
We have several older tray-loading iMacs that currently have client images served up from an old Xserve running OS X Server (Tiger). In the first part of the guide, I saw that the Snow Leopard System Image utility would not work for creating images from older PPC-based systems. However, later in the guide it refers to enable NetBoot 1.0 (which can run alongside NetBoot 2.0) for older clients - specifically including the tray-loading iMac.
So my question is, how can I go about retiring the old Xserve and still serve/maintain these Tiger client images on Snow Leopard Server?
Can I simply copy the images to the share point in the new Snow Leopard Server and enable NetBoot 1.0? Would I need to create a new image (using the Snow Leopard Server System Image Utility) that starts from a source Tiger installation disc and then add appropriate software as packages? Or can I simply use those existing images (with what I presume means software cannot be added) and serve them up on Snow Leopard Server?
Basically, I have those tray-loading iMacs running a fairly minimal setup (base operating system, ability to join to our LDAP server, and very lightweight open source programs). As (if) they die, we are replacing them with newer Intel-based systems. Having said that, there are still at least 9 or so of these tray-loading iMacs quietly humming along with no indication of failure in the near future (nice job, Apple). It's not a problem if I cannot add software to the images (as it seems most software would require Leopard anyway) - but I would like to serve these up on the network. Any thoughts/ideas?

You can copy your existing images to the 10.6 server, enable NetBoot 1.0, and they will be served up just fine. The only thing you would need 10.4 server for is to create new images.

Changing swap file location on tray-loader iMacs

This is not a question, but something I discovered that makes my old tray-loader iMac (the oldest iMac models) run Mac OS X much better.
As you may know, these oldest iMacs have an 8GB size limit on the boot volume. The largest stock drive on these iMacs was 6GB. That means if your upgraded hard drive is larger than 8GB, it must be partition so that the first partition is under 8GB (7.78GB on my iMac), and it must be the boot partition where the OS is installed (whether it's Mac OS X or 9).
In my case, I have a roomy 120GB hard drive (I believe the useable limit on these iMacs is 128GB). The first partition is just under 8GB, the second partition is the rest of the space, about 104GB. I have used every trick out there to move files (such as the iTunes music folder and most of my user/documents files) off to the second partition, to make free space on the boot partition as large as possible. So I have 3.5GB free on my 8GB boot partition. This is about 40% of the volume's total space so it seems pretty good, until you realize that most recent Macs have much more than the TOTAL 8GB I have, as free space on the boot volume. Mac OS X was just not designed to work well with small boot volumes...
Mac OS X uses the free space on the boot volume for its virtual memory "swap file." Considering these old iMacs max out at 512MB of RAM, virtual memory is being used quite a bit. But since space on the boot volume is very limited, low RAM and lack of free space can lead to performance issues. Here's what I observed. When I initially started up my iMac, I had about 3.5GB of free space. Over time, as I used more and more apps, that free space would diminish until I had only about 600MB remaining (as reported by a Finder window). At the same time, I noticed performance getting bogged down and more "chugging" sounds coming from the hard-working hard drive.
I've known about changing location of the swap file, but never tried it until recently. During the Mac OS X boot process, the Mac sets the location of the swap file. By default, the swap file resides on the boot volume (I believe most other Unix-based systems use a dedicated "swap partition" for the swap file). Since most recent Macs have large drives set up as one partition (and there is plenty of free space), and since many users have upgraded their RAM (and virtual memory is not as critical), swap file location is usually not an issue, and there is certainly no need to change the swap file location. However, on my iMac with an 8GB limit on the boot volume and 512MB of RAM, it made a noticeable difference.
I found one set of procedures on the web that was much better than the others I found for changing the location of the swap file.
http://www.math.columbia.edu/~bayer/OSX/swapfile/
On this page, there are two choices for Panther users. I used the one that works for both Panther and Tiger, because it appeared to me to be more straightforward. The author intentionally keeps the instructions somewhat technical to discourage users who are not technically inclined. I don't consider myself to be too "geeky," but I can follow instructions and type a few commands in Terminal.
After I changed the swap file location to a large mostly empty volume, I noticed much better performance when I have many large apps open at the same time. Performance no longer degrades over time, and the free space on my boot volume remains a constant 3.6GB.
The reason for this post is to share this information. Some users of these old iMacs may be noticing the same issues I had. This is a possible solution. However, if everything is OK with your set up, there is no reason to change the swap file location. If you try it, be sure to take the usual data backup precautions.
If anyone else has experience with changing swap file location, please post your comments here.

Problem has been solved:
background.setCapability(Background.ALLOW_IMAGE_WRITE);Thanks everybody for reading this :)

Startup options for daemons

Where should startup options for daemons be placed?
Should they be hardcoded in the respective startup script in /etc/rc.d?

twelvegates wrote:gzip -d </usr/man/man8/named.conf.5.gz | nroff -man | less
:shock:
man named.conf
twelvegates wrote:But this is not the chroot directory. That is, the working root directory remains the same if this one is specified. It's only used for relative pathnames in named.conf.
Hmm, well, I thought it was correct. I would suggest the following:
Add a request to the bug tracker to add a conf.d setup for named, or some way to specify options not configurable via a config file.
Then, I would just directly edit /etc/rc.d/named and add your chroot option in there until something is implemented.

Unable to install OS 10.3 on my tray loaded Imac 233 MHz Powerpc 750.

03Jan07
I am not able to install OS 10.3 on to my 10 GB hard drive. I get this message:
"You can not install Mac OS X on the volume. This destination is not within the first 8 GB of the hard disk".
I have reformated the drive several times and install Imac Firmware Update 1.2 . I continue to get the message.
What is the process to install Mac 10.3 onto a Tray Loaded 233 MHz Powerpc750 Imac? I got the computer with 10.3 already installed, so I know it is possible.
Thank you for your help with this matter.

04Jan07
Strider:
Thank you for the partioning advice.
I actually traded that computer with 10.3 installed for another model, a G3 tower that could not handle 10.2. Somehow the Imac had 10.3 without spliting the drive, so I assumed the drive did not need spliting.
The wireless antenna I bought for my Dad will not work for any version prior than 10.2, so I had to find a way to install the newer operating system. I hope the 256M RAM I just installed will be enought to do the job.
Thank you for your help with this. Do you know how the install 10.3 without spliting up the drive?
Regards,
Craig H. Henden

Upgrading a tray load iMac hard drive

I forgot thr solution to this but if some one could help me remember. I put a 40gb harddrive into a tray load purple g3 333mhz. When I try and install 10.3 it tells me I cant because my drive is not with in the first 8gb, What do I do to fix that?

While booted from the OS X installer CD, select "Utilities" from the drop-down menu. Run "Disk Utility" and it will list the hard drive. Select it and choose to erase it and partition it into (2) Mac OS Extended (Journaled) volumes. Make the first partition about 7.8-7.9 GBs, and use the remaining unused portion of the drive for the second partition. If you also want to install and boot from OS 9, be sure to select the "Mac OS 9 Drivers Installed" option.

What ARE the options for these fan-disabled iMacs?

I have started this as a new topic so as not to upset the members contributing to the below subject re. fast running fans :-
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2372777&tstart=0
The aim is to gain some practical advice for myself and others sharing the same problem.
My machine is a 4 yr old 6,1 iMac which 6 months ago started with this 'fans running too fast problem'. Initially intermittent, I am now in a position where my CPU and OD fans run at 4000-6000 rpm constantly when the machine is on. Progressing further the fans are now actually staying on for a full 5 minutes after I have properly put the machine to sleep. I have tried all the practical advice given in the above topic/thread to no avail.
Apple at the Trafford Centre were very helpful indeed and ran the diagnostics and hoovering for me last month and formally stated that it was due to CPU temp sensor failure - I was quoted £411 all in for a repair (logic board replacement required) but I came home with it to think. They tended to agree that it might be unwise to spend this when the machine is 4 yr old and may fail again for other reasons.
Working with this constant hum is driving me insane, I am just one of those who cannot stand it and soon therapy costs will kick in! Not to mention the wasted wattage. My idea is to buy a Mac Mini and tie it to an HP display for around £620 but does my iMac just go in the bin when it is fully functional otherwise?? Tried ear plugs, but my wife started slapping me to get my attention.
I could not bear it going for £70 on eBay, but I suppose I could harvest the HDD drive and RAM. Trading in seems to be a non-starter really. Joking apart, there must be people who are 'hard of hearing' who could benefit from this ever growing cohort of otherwise perfect machines?
My confidence in Apple has been reduced, especially when you others are getting the same problem out of the box! My only criticism was that the 'genius' I saw had not heard of the issue - despite the above thread. Finally there is the embarrassment when visiting friends ask what is drowning out the noise from my Thomson Freeview box and fish tank pumps!
Can't help thinking that beautiful 'exterior design' has impeded simple repair of a minor component.
Helpful, non technical suggestions gratefully received.

Distasteful as it is, it is generally not practical to repair motherboard level problems in contemporary consumer class electronics like iMacs. This is not so much because other things might fail but because motherboard repairs are themselves risky even for skilled technicians with all the specialized tools required.
Motherboards in these things are complex multilayer sandwiches of printed circuit traces with plated through holes making connections among them, tiny surface-mounted components, & other features that are well suited to economical highly automated mass fabrication but make most repairs a difficult & delicate operation. This is especially true for high speed electronics: not only must great care be taken to apply exactly the right amount of heat to remove & replace defective components without damaging them, adjacent components, or the motherboard circuitry itself; but also just not duplicating the shape of the newly soldered connection closely enough to the original can cause mis-operation because the affected circuits no longer meet the minimum bandwidth specs necessary to always process high speed signals correctly. (See the section in the Wikipedia reference titled "Reworking defective SMD components" for more about this.)
Of course, the motherboards could be designed with more easily replaced sub-assemblies like daughterboards & socketed components, but this both increases costs & significantly reduces achievable performance unless even more costly techniques are used in the initial design. This in turn increases bulk, requires more complex & expensive cooling systems, demands larger power supplies, & so on.
Basically, to do this right, you end up with something a lot more like a Mac Pro than an iMac, with a price tag to match.
In terms of your options, you can try to find a tech willing to work on the motherboard, but keep in mind all of the above about this kind of repair. You might be lucky. It may even turn out that the bad sensor is not on the motherboard or in the CPU itself, making the repair relatively simple & risk free.

Best options for mass pricing load/update?

Hi folks,
I need to design an interface to load PR00 pricing condition data into SAP from a 3rd party (custom) system. The interface will need to support (1) creating brand new condition records, (2) changing existing condition records (example i: price changes but effectivity dates remain the same, example ii: price remains the same, but the effectivity 'to' date changes, etc.), and (3) setting the deletion flag on existing records.
Any thoughts/comments on the best mechanism for getting these pricing updates loaded into SAP? LSMW vs. BAPI , etc? I've spent some time searching and see that there are some BAPI's out there, but that some folks are using LSMW or even BDC. I'm interested in hearing the pros and cons of the various approaches.
FYI, I'm on ECC 6.0.
Thanks in advance!
Allison

Hi,
Writing BDC and BAPI wil take time if your volume of DATA is huge then go for this option
Otherwise I suggest you use LSMW simple and quick method,
Kapil

I need a wireless option for older Mac desktop is there a good card or adapter I want to transfer hd video files over the internet. using a hotspot and wireless card in computer, any recommendations

Is there a good card I can put in the computer, and use with a hotspot? Any experience with uploading HD video files this way. DSL hard wired connection is too slow

As for the people on eBay, my only beef with them is that it has turned into a money hungry store instead of an auction place to pick things up inexpensively, like it used to be.
Agreed.
There is one, in particular, who really puts a dear price on his flashed cards.
Not a friend to the Mac community.
Of course, others see his prices, and say "Well, if he can, then so can I".....
By the way, I have been noticing the same cards, only for PC for around $30-$40, which lead me to believe that those are the ones they are "flashing". Sorry if that's incorrect.
It's OK.
I watch for the prime cards all the time.
Radeon 9800 Pro and XT PC cards have increased to the $50-$70 range.
Pros used to be $20-$30, XTs $30-$60.
Some guys here in Japan are trying to get $100 for Radeon 9800 Pro cards- vanilla PC versions.
The glut in Mac options has inflated the flashable PC card market dramatically.....
The Mac Edition Pro retailed for $200+.
$100 isn't bad for that card flashed to Mac... the XT gets $20-$50 more.
Try telling a PC guy that a Radeon 9800 is a $100 card..... the old boys laugh!
Adding to this is the recent influx of "new" Mac users, PC modders/users buying cheap, used G4's, and the demand for upgrades has increased as supply decreased.
If you see any rev 5.70 Geforce 7800 GS AGP cards, or any FireGl (Radeon) X800XT (unflashed) cards for less than $130, amazing is all that I have to say.
$30-$40, and I'll take 20 of each- cash!
Hmm, same goes for Geforce 6800 Ultra's......
I am just a little (or a lot) frustrated with Apple and Apple vendors lately. For obvious and not so obvious reasons. Please accept my apologies as I go through this phase.
We all have our days, and our reasons. At least, I know I do......
Apology warmly accepted!
Count me as frustrated, as well.
The new machines sure look nice, but when I tally up the price of the software that I own, which can't be run on Intel or 10.6x Macs, my room full of G4's look a lot nicer.

IPhoto options for older Macs?

- I have an early 2008 MacBook and am trying to order a picture calendar for the holidays
- A sweet little pop-up informs me that the photo store no longer supports iPhoto 7.1.5 ('08)
- In-app link to the iPhoto 9.5 upgrade page which tells me I must have Maverick to upgrade
-I can't upgrade to Maverick because computer is out of the upgrade model range
Are there any options or do I just use Shutterfly...?

Purchase a copy of the iLife 09 or 11 disc from a 3rd party retailer like Amazon.com or eBay.com.
iLife 09 has iPhoto 8 which will run on your Mac.
However, upgrading to iLife 11 will give you nearly the latest version of iPhoto with more features:
iLife 11 (iPhoto 9.4.3) will require 10.7.5 or later.
iLife 11 (iPhoto 9.2.3) requires 10.6.8 or later.
If you opt for iLIfe 11 install iPhoto 9 and update it to the latest version that will run on your Mac, 9.4.3 if you're running Lion or 9.2.3 if you're running Snow Leopard, thru the various updaters available from the Apple Downloads website: Apple - Support - Search.
OT

Original Tray-Load iMac will not boot

Hi all,
I have an Original TrayLoad iMac G3/233 that wont boot up. I hit the power button, the computer chimes, the screen turns the grey color like right before start up, but does not go any further, no happy mac face or anything. I have tryed booting off a CD, and resetting PRAM, but i get nothing. Any ideas?
thanks,
Allen

I pulled out the logic board assembly, and dissconnected everything from the motherboard, all the drives and cables, i removed the processor card and ram, and PRAM battery. I let it all sit for the night like that, then reassembled it, and it still does the same thing, it Chimes, the light turns from amber to green, then the screen displays a blank grey screen, yet does not go further, no HD activity, and when i put in an OS 9 CD. and hold down C, it doesnt do anything either.

Tray-loading iMac won't connect to the internet.

I'm trying to get my 266 MHz G3 iMac on the internet through internet sharing I wired it to my Digital Audio G4 (G4 has an airport card and gets to the internet from an 802.11g router) with an ethernet cable but the iMac says that it has NO IP ADDRESS and can't connect to the internet. What am I doing wrong? I did all the correct settings in the internet sharing panel on my G4. My iMac runs OS X 10.3 Panther.

I believe both your Macs are old enough so that you need to use a +crossover cable+ if you are connecting the two Macs directly.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2274
If you happen to have an Ethernet hub/switch, putting it between the two Macs will +reverse the connection+ so you can use two regular Ethernet cables, instead of one crossover cable.

How do I get beyond the single screen of recent content in this forum? There's no option for older pages.

Adobe, your forum software is terrible. And it differs from time to time and from product to product. Until recently, I could scroll through multiple screens of new/newly modified posts by clicking on a "more" bar. Now it's gone. How do I go beyond a single screen?

Nothing like requiring two clicks where one worked before. And multiple clicks to back out, as well. Plus, the discussion tab shows only highly compressed icons of each discussion, instead of a nice list.

I just bought my iMac G3 and I was excited and ready to install Mac OS X 10.3, unfortunatley my Mac is having problems selecting it as a start up disc. I really want this to work. Can anyone help me? Mine is a tray loader.

I went to school this morning and picked up the Mac OS X 10.3 software from my advisor, I was super excited to get out of my boring Mac OS 8.6. My Mac is a tray loader. When I put the disc in the tray, it has no problem reading it, but when I go to the file to install and I press the restart button, my Start Up disc couldn't make Mac OS X 10.3 my start up disc. And when I tried using the Start Up disc on the file, it would restart, but when my screen turns back on, it flashes a question mark with a folder behind it and a Macintosh symbol and eventually begins running OS 8.6 again. Please help me!

There are several things...
There is a firmware update that is needed for Mac OS X. Fortunately, you can still boot into the "classic" Mac OS, because you need to be able to do so to install the firmware update, if it has not been already.
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1263
The Mac OS X installation disc needs to be a retail disc, meaning a disc that was sold separately in a box for use with any supported Mac. For Panther (10.3), I recall that it was black with a big metallic X, and it comes on three CDROMs. If it's a gray disc that came with another Mac model, it probably will not work.
RAM - Your iMac needs to have a minimum of 128mb of RAM for Panther. At least 256mb (or more) would be highly recommended. 512mb is the max.
Hard drive - The largest stock hard drive in tray-loader iMac G3 was 6GB, which is not very large for Mac OS X. The installation of Panther will take up about half that space. This does not prevent booting the installation disc. It's just a consideration for doing the installation itself.
For a tray-loader iMac, you may want to go with Mac OS 9 instead (up to version 9.2.2). Panther is a good version of Mac OS X, but there is not that much software that works with it. On the other hand, Mac OS 9.x was the latest and greatest version of the Mac's OS for a LONG time, so there is a large library of old but useful programs. Some are still being maintained today, such as
http://www.floodgap.com/software/classilla/
Mac OS X on a tray-loader iMac G3 will feel quite sluggish. Mac OS 9 will feel snappy, and require much less RAM and hard drive space.

OS 10.2.8 on 233MHz tray loading Bondi Blue

I have installed OS10.2.8 on a 233MHz tray loading Bondi Blue and I am wondering if there are things I can do to optimize it. I have a 10GB HD and 256MB of RAM (maximum for this machine I read). Anything else I can do?
Thanks.

Maximum RAM for your machine is 512 with a 256MB module in each of the two slots. The bottom slot requires a low profile module. See here for what I mean...
http://www.datamem.com/partsthat_fit_list.asp_Q_M_E_iMac+233_A_MF_E_Apple_A_C_E
(standard disclaimer, not affiliated with the above supplier but have ordered RAM from them for my old tray loading iMac with very good customer service, so just your standard happy customer)
Although 512MB or RAM would certainly be an improvement over your current 256MB, 256 is not bad and if I had to choose one thing to update on your machine, I would be focusing on the hard drive first. 10GB is nothing. OS X will need a decent amount of free drive space for cache files, temp files, and general scratch disk area for doing stuff behind the scenes. While it probably doesn't need a lot, 10GB is small enough that your stuff may quickly fill it up, especially if you use iTunes and load in a lot of your CDs, and you may find your system getting bogged down as you start to approach filling 80+% of your drive. Considering how dirty cheap hard drives are now. My old 333MHz machine has an 80GB drive in it and it works great (and that one is still only running OS 9.2.2).
Keep in mind these older tray loading iMacs require drives over 8GB to be partitioned with the first partition under 8GB where OS X is installed. Although if you have OS X on your 10GB drive, you probably already knew that.
Patrick

Startup options for older (tray loading iMac)

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