Test color for offset printing cs4

I often have to create black and white publication which are then sent to a professional offset printer. However, the images (mainly photos) are often much darker after printing. I lighten the images in photoshop via curves but it's a guess as to how each image will print. I'd like to be able to find a set formula so multiple people can edit and place images with consistent results.
Has anyone had this problem? Is there a way to preview how a publication will look after offset printing?

i agree with both of the above posts. there's no "magic bullet" which will get every picture correct in every circumstance, it depends on:
the quality of the press being used; (is it a rusting POS with spent rollers and blankets, or is it a new machine with not many "miles" on it)
the resolution of the platesetter (assuming the artwork is being commercially printed using CTP);
the screen ruling that the printer is making the halftone dots, or if the printer is using FM/stochastic screening;
the finish of the stock (coated, uncoated, laser-paper, newsprint, matt, silk)
the brightness of the stock
there is a calculation to work out the shades of gray given the DPI of the platesetter (not the photoshop file!) and the desired LPI of the press. it is:
((DPI/LPI) squared) + 1 = shades of gray.
so for example, 2400 DPI @ 150 LPI = 257 shades of gray.
however, 2400 DPI @ 200 LPI = 145 shades of gray. so while the dots are finer, there are less shades of gray as a result.
ALSO, while a platesetter can generate fine dots at the correct screen ruling, it also depends how well the ink absorbs paper. if the paper absorbs ink too well (such as newsprint) the dot shape will grow (spread) and this gives "dot gain". this happens on coated stock too but to a lesser degree.
so ultimately the printer will be the go-to person in the OP's situation. i hope the mechanics behind it explain why asking the printer is the key here.

Similar Messages

How can I export to PDF for Offset printing including color and grayscale photo's?

After reading dozens of forum, I still don’t found the answer.
I made a photobook with full-colur and B/W photos for Offset printing. I want the B/W to be in grayscale to avoid color possible color shades. It seems InDesign doesn’t support grayscale, the images become way to dark. Even with exporting without any colour conversion or destination and/or including original colour profiles, the grayscale pictures are being exported to dark to PDF.
How can I export to PDF for Offset printing including color and grayscale photo’s?

Yes, the Photoshop & ID CMYK working spaces are the same
This can get difficult because the 3 programs handle soft proofing differently.
The working spaces don't matter, it's the document profile(s) that manage the preview. So here is the same grayscale image placed in ID on top and PS on the bottom. I've set my Photoshop info to show the doc profile in the lower left corner. I can see my InDesign's Document CMYK profile in my Proof Setup (the Working CMYK is different and isn't being used). Both profiles are effectively the same Coated FOGRA39 (Black Ink FOGRA in the case of PS).
But the previews don't match because I have Overprint turned off, so the InDesign preview is Gamma 2.2 or a "screen" media preview.
If I turn on Overprint preview I get a match because I'm soft proofing for print:

How to get black text in Aperture for offset printing?

I have a lot of text in my Aperture Books.
60 pages is like 300USD plus from Apple store!
Offset printing for 1000 copies is 3 USD each (and I am happy with that lower quality).
This is what my printer says:
The files for offset print generally should be prepared slightly different
then for digital printing.
I'm talking about the text.
Each black text (on the cover, inside pages, numbers of pages) should be
prepared in one black colour. Now is separated on 4 colours. Of course we can print it as it is but I'm sure that the final effect will
be not good. The black letters will be "fuzzy".
Is it possible to change some settings? (I get the same in Pages when I create PDF:s)
Help!!!
Stefan
Do I have to learn Indesign?

StefanGson wrote:
I tried to save as PDF-X and then I opened the generated PDF and if I use Acrobat
Advanced->Print Production and Output Preview and hold the cross over my black text I still get values for CMYK
I guess thats how you check it?
Hi, Stefan
I would suggest talking directly with the person you're going to deliver to and ask them exactly how they want it delivered, for example, fonts, pdf type... they usually have a spec sheet you deliver to and then pick the PDF from the print options in Aperture.
victor

2 color gradients for offset printing

i am setting up a job for 2 color offset and have 2 PMS colors. I have some artwork that has a gradient from one of the PMS colors to the other. Is this going to be something the printer can deal with, or do I have to do something to set it up for separations for the printer. I am stuck thinking how easy it is in 4 color, but haven't had to deal with this using only 2 colors. Thanks in advance for any information.

James: You're the kind of client I prefer! The more educated you are, the better off we both are! You have more tools under your belt and I have more productivity dealing with clean files. I applaud you fostering this relationship, it's NOT the norm!
And like you, I do wish for better things with every version of ANY program I work with. Bravo!
Scott: I never said FH had inherent output issues. I've imaged MANY FH generated EPS files not native FH files (which was my point in an earlier statement that I may not have conveyed well).
I also agree that the user has much to do with the success of any prepress job (though Corel's crappy Postscript was their own doing.) The issue, historically, was that Corel's suite was a lot of "bang for the buck" to businesses to cheap to pay for professional design. So they bought Corel and foisted on their secretaries (or gave it to their kids) and had "in-house design". (This is the same cause of the Publisher plague). So you had many amateur files coming from Corel but also the occasional pro was using it and using it well. (I've designed files in Corel 4 that I never had a problem ripping!)
Doug: "Graphic Find and Replace" does NOT make FH better than AI. Blending spot colors is a deficiency? Even today I caution people to use Blends sparingly. Gradient Meshes provide Spot to Spot blending capabilities. Do I say it's perfect and the most intuitive tool? No. But in the hands of those who give it enough time it is a masterful tool unequalled in FH. But it doesn't make AI better - it's just a tool other programs don't have. What about the Automation interface? When FH was Macromedia's, it's scripting dictionary was paltry. AI supports Applescript, Visual Basic, and Javascript. I build front to backend workflows for AI using various combinations of these. This doesn't make it a better program than FH - though it may be superior in this regard.
As far as conventions go, FH's Pen Tool is what YOU are comfortable with. You see it FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE. I have an associate that is by far the fastest and most accurate user of ANY Pen Tool I have EVER seen and he uses AI as his weapon of choice.
If you drop the qualifiers "flexible, elegant" (which merely describe YOUR feelings about it) you end up with one versus four. Appears to be a slam-dunk to you, I'm sure. But in practice, by a given individual, it may appear to make more sense and be faster than your experience. (Just like the cry for multiPage support in AI. I think this is a horribly bad idea but from many users' perspectives this is a must-have.)
I just don't understand why these forums become a continual p*ssing match between FH and AI users?!?!

Using Photoshop for offset printing projects (packaging) - simple or complex?

Hi,
I'm about to start a new project. It's a product package (box).
Normally, I would do this in Illustrator. However, I was wondering if I could do it all in Photoshop by saving the final output as a PDF.
I've only ever used Photoshop in 4-color process scenarios and numeric printing. In other words, "sky's the limit" scenarios, where all I need to care about is how it looks on the screen. I'm not sure how to attack this from the perspective of offset printing.
I've checked with the printer, and he says a CMYK PDF is fine. But that the basic rules of offset still apply.
First, is it realistic of me to envision doing this box in Photoshop? It would really save me a lot of time not having to switch back and forth from PS to AI the way I usually do in projects like these.
How would I go about telling a text layer to use a specific offset pantone, or pure black, for instance?
Am I making too big a deal out of something simple, or am I being unreasonably simplistic regarding something more complex?

...or am I being unreasonably simplistic regarding something more complex?
Probably yes (no offense). Just a few random thoughts:
- you can't do die, glue and fold lines in PS as you can't do specific other custom print marks required for stamping, foil coating, varnishing or whatever
- process colors in PS are limited to multichannel/ duotones/ tritones and since they will be raster, they will never print sharp, especially when printing on something like uncoated C or G flute
- similarly, barcodes and other required markings may not print correctly
So no, there is possibly no way you can do this in just PS. In particular the cutting part will require a complementary EPS/ PDF based on genuine vector data and it really doesn't hurt to have proper alignement crosshairs, either.
Mylenium

Resolution of Pages PDF for offset printing

I'm making a brochure for my wife's company. I've already made it in Photoshop (on my PC). I've duplicated it in Pages (tri-fold template). The pdf made in PS is about 25MB. The pdf made by pages is about 1.3MB. The printer wants files that are 350ppi. And now that I think of it, they also want them in the CMYK color space. Pretty sure Pages won't do that. Anyway, anyone made a document that was printed by a service (offset press)?
Dave
in Maine

I'd agree with what Peter says but for a possible few points.
1. As you have calibrated monitors, you presumably have a spectrophotometer and a monitor calibration / monitor characterisation package. The package should autoinstall the ICC profile for the state of the display and set the ColorSync Utility and the Display control panel correctly. However, take care that you don't override these settings manually. The typical mistake is to use the display profile as the profile for colour correction. The reason this is a mistake is that your display typically has a smaller colour space than your offset printing condition, except if you are printing on lowend gray newsprint or lowend gray magazine paper as in US SWOP. For any half-decent printing gamut, use a larger colour correction space such as ECI-RGB or AdobeRGB or if you are digital then PhotoGamutRGB by the pro photographers in Germany. If you can't define a colour in the colour correction space you can't define the colour in the output space - you have to have the colour to be able to print the colour.
2. In using the PDF/X-3 workflow, check with your printer for the bleed box and trim box. If you don't have to have transparency, try staying away from it in your design. The idea is that PDF is output to a determinate imaging area for the page itself, which you define in Page Setup, but printing processes have different needs of additional space and this additional space is customisable. If you do have transparency, set the transparency flattening appropriately in the PDF/X-3 dialogue. Finally, talk to your printer about the printing condition and determine if there is a house printing condition for which an ICC printing profile is available or if the shop supports ISO 12647 in which case you can get prebuilt ICC profiles at www.eci.org and the measurement data itself to build your own gamut mapping and black generation at www.color.org which is the home of the International Color Consortium.
Probably a bit rambling, sorry about that.
hh

Managing colors for perfecct printing not working

Hi all,
I think I have tried everything and all my prints look exactly the same (different from what is on the screen) so if anyone could help, it would be great! (This is a thank you pic for all the people who came to my wedding!). In all the of pictures, it seems like there is too much yellow and they miss some of the saturation.
For this specific shot, the camera was a Digital Rebel XT. My printer is a Canon IP4300. My screen was calibrated with a Spider Express2 using a gamma of 2.2. Oh, my screen is a 23'' cinema display.
First try:
I used the Spider2Express color profile for my screen, in aperture I setted the color profile to system managed and in the printer setting, I disabled the color correction in the color option tab.
Second try:
screen color profile: Cinema HD
Aperture profile: system managed
disabled color correction
Third try:
screen color profile: Spider2Express
Aperture: Canon IJ Color printer profile 2005
disabled color correction
I also played with the black point compensation and it didnt change anything in the output.
Also, when I play with the onscreen proofing I cant see any changes between these profiles: spider2express, Cinema HD and the oen from the printer. If there is one, it is too small for me to notice.
Finaly, the print preview all look exactly as what was on the screen.
I really dont understant where the problem can be so any help would be great!

Hi Alan,
I'll give it a bash to help,
firstly you'll have calibrated your monitor with the spider express and it'll have created a profile. Your display should be set outside of aperture to use this profile. Go to system pref's, displays, select the colour tab and select the profile spider created. This gives your display the profile to use in all applications.
Next If your using photo paper there may be a profile for the printer / paper combination from the paper manufacturer, check their web site. I use Ilford and have downloaded the profile for my Canon i9950 & classic pearl and installed it. This profile then appears in the view, proofing profile within aperture. You should not really use on screen proofing untill after you've made all your image adjustments and then finally use on screen proofing to check for posterisation and colour saturation.
So now on to printing, Perhaps the profile you've downloaded suggests a default paper type to use such as (seeing as it's a canon printer) photo paper plus glossy or photo paper pro and if to use black point compensation or not. We need to keep these settings in mind when we enter the print menu. Best thing to do is copy the sample single image preset and rename it to the paper type and size your using. Then in the print settings for that newly created profile you'll see a button for printer settings, select it and you'll be presented with another menu for printer settings. In the 3rd drop down menu form the top select colorsync, color conversion = standard and quartz filter = none.
then select quality and media from the 3rd drop down and select the recommended paper type in the profile you downloaded (it's normally photo paper plus glossy) and change print mode to top quality photo.
Next again in the 3rd dropdown select colour options and set colour correction = none.
Next go to special effects and make sure no options are selected and click done.
You're back in the print menu, select the paper size you are using and the orentation. In the colorsync profile select the profile name for your paper and you may click black point compensation if required. Note the gamma setting usualy set at 1, and your print resolution, I normally have use best DPI selected. Now save this as the renamed paper type you copied at the start.
Next is to run off a test print making sure you select this new paper settings in the print window and see how it looks. If you notice it's a little dark go back and adjust the gamma to say 1.15 to 1.20 and try again. Don't forget to save your adjustments.
As you use different papers and sizes you create these settings and just simply select the required ones for the print size / paper type your using at print time.
This is how I work and it gives good results. Also if your getting dark results all the time consider reducing the lumanance of your display from a recomended 120 / 140 Cdm to something less like 90 / 100 cdm. The apple displays can run a little "bright" for printing giving the impression of dark prints when compared to the screen.
Best of luck
Eoin

Black and white tritone for offset printing

Hi,
Im about to print a B&W book, and want to do it with three different inks (black, a dark worm grey, and a light grey) I prepared the files in photoshop in Mode/duotone and choose the three colors.. Id did some test with the offset press, I got quite good results, but I noticed that the black and dark grey are working in the highlights, which generate a grain. I want only the light grey working in the highlights. How can I control this? Should I work the duotones curves?
Thanks!

Yes, the curves will help. You can also determine how the colors overprint. The Black and Dark Gray curves could look like a "bell" curve, while the Light Gray would appear as an inverted bell curve ( if that makes sense ). You will see results as you adjust the curves. Good luck, sounds iike a nice project.

Best Practices for setting up InDesign Effects for offset printing.

I'm new to the forum so I hope I'm posting my question in the correct place. I'm a prepress supervisor for a company that receives most of it's work as PDFs exported from InDesign. I notice on more and more work (proabably 75%) our customers are setting up their effects in InDesign. We receive files exported from CS3 and CS4, mac and pc. Our prepress system is Prinergy 4.1. We have job options that we recommend customers use for PDF export directly out of the applicaton and we are currently testing PDFX4. The problem is we don't have consistent results with our ripped files, we often see artifacts around items that use certain effects (such as the bevel and emboss effect), many times the customer uses a drop shadow along with the bevel and emboss and we see "pixelation" or low-resolution "jagginess." Files that use feathering often drop part of the feathered image and if black text is touching an effect it will process out to CMYK. If we have the InDesign file it sometimes works to change how the effect is applied (text, object, fill), sometimes we have to flatten on export or write a PDFX4. If we are working with the customer's PDF we often have to flatten at the rip, save the PDF as a postscript file or request the native files to troubleshoot. Are there guidelines to applying effects in Indesign? We would like to try to document for our customers recommended processes for creating files.
Thanks!

Our strongest recommendation at Adobe for best PDF print publishing workflow results is to use the PDF/X-4 settings for exporting PDF from InDesign 6 and saving PDF from Adobe Illustrator 14. (The "draft PDF/X-4" support of InDesign 5 and Illustrator 13 was based on a draft version of the ISO PDF/X-4 specification that was significantly modified prior to final ISO standard ratification and publication!) PDF/X-4 provides for a reliable workflow in which live transparency and color management is carried in the PDF file itself; no "flattening" of transparency effects or color conversions occur until as late as possible in the print workflow, preferably at the RIP itself!
PDF/X-4 is an excellent choice for PDF if you have a workflow which uses the Adobe PDF Print Engine technology in the RIP. In your case, Prinergy 4.1 does in fact provide Adobe PDF Print Engine technology. Make sure that (1) you enable the Adobe PDF Print Engine as opposed to CPSI and (2) you don't refine the pages as part of the Prinergy workflow (that process ruins your PDF by converting to PostScript and converting back to PDF - not something you want to do for a reliable PDF workflow with transparency and color management).
Note that even if you do use PDF/X-4 and properly configure your PDF workflow system / RIP, it is still incumbent upon the designer to produce reasonable content. Just because "it looks good on the screen" (additive screen color) doesn't mean that it will reasonably translate to ink on substrate (subtractive printing color). Adobe does provide guidelines for use of transparency and color on its website for use by designers to guide them.
- Dov

Enlarging images for offset printing

Hi guys,
some images I have to include to the project has insuficient size {sometimes less than half {125 DPI instead of 300}. What's your opinion when considering the best way to enlarge them. Should I just place them to ID and without any pardons export the final PDF or is better to enlarge each one manually? I am just curious to hear your experiences.
Thank you

MikeWenzloff wrote:
The DPI doesn't matter much. What does matter is the pixel dimensions. Resizing upwards in ID will make the images fuzzy. More fuzzy the larger you increase their on-page size.
So if the images are being sized downwards after placing them, the effective DPI increases. Sized larger and the effective DPI is decreased.
If it at all matters, there are two reasonable options. One costs, does a little better job: a plug-in for Photoshop. The other is free: Smilla Image Enlarger. Smilla will do a pretty decent job as long as you are beginning with a quality image and are not unduly sizing upwards.
Either way, you would do so on each image. That is unless you are beginning with images that can be resized exacly the same amount without changing the WxH ratio. Then Smilla can process a queue.
Take care, Mike
Thank you Mike,
sorry, I was not clear enough — I was talking about Effective DPI. Thank you for your time!..

Offset printing settings for PDF/X-3:2002

Can anybody advice me the best settings of PDF/X for offset printing?
Thanks in advance

The PDF/X-1a:2001 and PDF/X-3:2002 standards are based on PDF 1.3 .... settings, to print the PDF/X directly.
minikperi
yuju
glitter

Offset Printing Question

Hello,
I need an advise on how to print a very deep blue color on offset printing. I am doing a catalog for an artist who uses very nice deep blue color. His technique of applying the color is very special, so when seen with human eye it is very illuminating. Professional photo can capture the effect decently, but numerous trials on different publications show that offset printing can't get anywhere close to the original color by the artist. Sometimes it gets muddy grayish blue, but sometimes it gets more to the purple side with a lot of magenta in it.
If you are curious what kind of art I am talking about, you may visit www.chimeddorj.com
The reason is that cyan, magenta and a bit of black can't really create a pure Cobalt Blue. So I was thinking if there was a way to add an additional printing separation for a pure blue color from Pantone. That way the Spot Pantone blue that is closest to the artist's color will act as a base and CMYK color will add necessary shades depending on the situation.
Does it sound reasonable? Does any one think it will work? I need your opinions or expertises.
Also, do you know any other web sites with forums specifically dedicated to commercial print topics?

Dear John Danek,
I hope everything is well with you. I know that you are one of the most active participants of the adobe forums. I would like to ask your help on a pretty complicated Photoshop problem. I thought you may have some experience printing in Solid colors and separating them into channels.
I am trying to print a book using two solid colors in addition to the 4 process colors. But the solid colors will not be applied just plainly. The photographic images will have certain areas printed in solid colors that will diffuse smoothly with other 4 colors. If you would like to get a better understanding of my problem, you could visit my previous post on adobe forums under these links. You have added your entry on the second link almost a year ago.
http://forums.adobe.com/message/5929818#5929818
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/953122
I found a printer who made me a test print with my channel separated files. Although the saturation and overall color quality has improved a lot, the test came out quite bad because I didn’t separate the channels right. I want the solid color to diffuse smoothly with other 4 colors. So I need to learn to make the separations in a right way.
If you are willing to take a look at my sample print and the color separated PS files, I can send them to you in a link. I have a high expectancy that this is going to work eventually. For now it is just a matter of separating the colors in a right way.

Interactive PDF - Offset Printing

Hi all,
I'm hoping someone can advise me on the best way to set up an Interactive PDF for offset printing? The underlying PDF is a high res PDF with bleed and trims. However, I'm not sure what happens with the form fields. Any thoughts?
Mac 10.6.7
InDesign CS5
Acrobat Pro 9.4.4
Cheers,
Tricia

Form fields are a tricky one, as it depends on where you're ripping the separations. If you print to separations from Acrobat, the data in printable form fields will appear on the plates as part of the page content. However most hardware RIPs will either throw an error, or ignore form fields, buttons, etc. and just print the page content. in the PDF specification form fields, buttons and annotations are always RGB, so you can't for example have a text field with "cyan" text, it'll be the multi-plate equivalent shade of "blue". As a special case, in Acrobat the default black text fields are separated to a single plate (K) even though on screen they're RGB 0,0,0.
It's also important to make sure your underlying PDF is in the correct color space. Exporting to "PDF (Interactive)" from InDesign means you'll convert everything to DeviceRGB, but for offset you want to keep everything in (or convert to) CMYK, with or without spots, and presumably want to embed profile information too. You only have access to the "output" controls when you export to "PDF (Print)" - using that route you can still export your form fields and multimedia, but they'll remain in RGB no matter what you do.

Developing InDesign docs for both print and web

I develop InDesign documents for offset printing but now the organisation wants to drag itself into the 21st century by also putting these same documents up on the web (as interactive web pages that respond to user input). I am looking for a broad outline of the best way to tackle this, just so that I don't waste too much time trying to learn the wrong technology or the wrong software.
I have started to tag my documents with XML, so I am thinking that the route to the web is from InDesign to XML then via XSLT or CSS to XHTML. Is that the best and/or only way to do it? I assume DreamWeaver will also feature in the equation at some point.
These documents are test questions. They are pretty simple. All the paras will have para styles but there will be some overrides of the font like bold, italic, underline, subscript, superscript. Presumably these all need to be tagged with XML, perhaps using character styles? There are lots of inline graphics (ai and psd files) that will have to be converted to png, I guess. I also have attached metadata via XML attributes and I want that metadata to get to the web page and help direct the action based on user input (like which answer they give to a question).
Since I have always worked on print documents, I don't know XSLT, CSS, XHTML or even HTML so I just want to get started on the right foot.
Any suggestions welcome, including perhaps good tutorials or other resources. And obviously I want to automate this process as much as possible using scripts.
Thanks,
Brian

Hi Brian,
I wanted to do the same at my work, but my boss didn’t allow me this. So, I have a general idea about how to do it, but have no chance to implement it into a working solution. In my opinion you answered correctly to your own questions and you are on the right track.
As to tutorials and resources, I couldn't find much information on the subject so far.
The best tutorial I know about is in this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Designers-Guide-Adobe-InDesign-XML/dp/0321503554
(Chapters 9-11)
See also this tutorial:
http://indesignsecrets.com/how-to-export-basic-html-out-of-cs2.php
All the
paras will have para styles but there will be some overrides of the font like
bold, italic, underline, subscript, superscript. Presumably these all need to
be tagged with XML, perhaps using character styles?
There are a couple of ready to use scripts that do this — you can run such a script and then Map Styles to Tags.
There
are lots of inline graphics...
That's good — inline graphics are better then stand alone ones for XML export.
I don't
know XSLT, CSS, XHTML or even HTML so I just want to get started on the right
foot.
The above mentioned book gives you basics on all these topics, but it's not enough — you'll need a good book on Dreamweaver as well. I'd recommend you Dreamweaver CS3 The Missing Manual Series.
Kasyan

Pdf Import; Offset Printing

Hi Everyone....I have my files in Pdf format and I want to do "OFFSET PRINTING"...I have Corel Draw Graphics Suite X5 and Adobe Illustrator CS5 for OFFSET PRINTING....but when I Import my files in these softwares... Dimensions of Pdf Files get disturbed and the image (Imported Pdf File) which opens in these softwares have text misplaced from their original position (Note: Dimensions, Font, Format & Style are important for my work)
So is there any other way to do "OFFSET PRINTING" or any other way to import Pdf files to these softwares without losing its dimensions....
Please reply ASAP.....

Why don't you do the "OFFSET PRINTING" from your "PDF FILE"? This can "ACTUALLY BE DONE."

Test color for offset printing cs4

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