Tone curve "region" disappeared

hello,
i am running lightroom 3 on mac os 10.6.8. i use lightroom constantly and have never had any problems. i started lightroom today and went to the develop module only to discover that under the "tone curve" panel, i no longer have any sliders for highlights, lights, darks, and shadows. the graph portion of of the panel is there, containing the actual tone-curve, but everything else is missing. anyone have any ideas on this? screen grab of the panel is below.
thanks!

Click on the small curve icon in the bottom right hand corner of the Curve panel (you can see it in your screenshot) and the curve will change back to sliders.
The curve that your screenshot shows has actually one big advantage over the other: You can drag the end points of the curve vertically up / down to set your black point or white point.
For instance you drag the bottom left point of the curve vertically up until it shows about 5%. And correspondingly you drag down on the right top end to about 95%. That ensures that you have detail in the highlights and in the shadows.
WW

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Hi Dan,
OK, so now I'm confused... I have removed the profiles for the monitors (one for each) and now use the manufacturer supplied one and haven't been able to get a crash since yesterday when I did the change. I'm not 100% confident the bug has gone, but it's passed my "it should happen by now" criteria. I'm wondering if the size of the .icc profiles could have an influence. When I calibrate my monitors, I always do a full calibration which stores the data as a full LUT iccview.de lists it as:
Description Tag:
Monitor_2_17-03-2011
ICC-Tag: BToA1 (Colorimetric)
Calculation: LUT with 35937 grid points
Header:
size = 690296 bytes
CMM = 'APPL'
Version = 2.4.0
Device Class = Display
Color Space = RGB
Conn. Space = XYZ
Date, Time = 17 Mar 2011, 15:50:32
Platform = Microsoft
Flags = Not Embedded Profile, Use anywhere
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Dev. Model = 0x0
Dev. Attrbts = Reflective, Glossy
Rndrng Intnt = Perceptual
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Description Tag:
DELL U2410 Color Profile,D6500
ICC-Tag: XYZ Matrix
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Header:
size = 6756 bytes
CMM = 'ADBE'
Version = 2.0.0
Device Class = Display
Color Space = RGB
Conn. Space = XYZ
Date, Time = 1 Mar 2010, 14:15:19
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I am finding that the new sliders in LR4 are extremely effective. I am wondering if routine Tone Curve adjustments are helpful any more. How do you feel about using the Basic Sliders for adjustments, and not using the Tone Curve? What would I be giving up by abandoning the Tone Curve?

EricBier wrote:
Jeff,
... I am at a loss to achieve precision using the Tone Curve in Lightroom since any move affects the entire image creating undesireable effects in areas I am not focused on. If I do not go to Photoshop, I tend to use the Adjustment Brush or the Graduated Filter in Lightroom to affect different areas differently, after setting the Basic Sliders.
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For the last few years I've been teaching a Photoshop class that emphasizes curves techniques like that in PS. I'm a new LR user and was surprised at how many images can be improved even without masks and with the relatively crude curve adjustments of LR.

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When I adjust RGB values on the curve (eg I pull down the blue to warm things up a bit) the "linear" in the option menu below the curve changes to "custom". When I then change the tone curve to medium or strong contrast, it nicely obeys and thus so, but what then surprises me is that the Blue curve in the RGB settings is again totally flattened out...does it retain the prior adjustment or does it just ignore it ? I only noticed just now on a relatively ok picture so it's easily enough to check but still it's odd that an earlier slider adjustment seems to disappear.
Anyone who can enlighten me on this ?
Tx. Frederic

Not sure if I understand. Let me try to explain my workflow : usually i start with camera profile (i'm a landscape guy) then basic panel tweaks,color temp if needed, a bit of the cool shadows/highlights, some blacks,clarity etc. then perhaps a graduated filter or lens profile...i hardly ever use the contrast slider (I never liked it in previous LR versions and haven't really touched it now) - BUT then my next move usually is to fool around with the tone curve, before (LR3) mostly via the sliders, now (LR4) mostly via the presets (linear,medium,strong) because I get confused between highlights/whites in BP then highlights/lights etc in TC panel, so I don't bother with those sliders in the TC panel anymore and I just click the presets. Now at long last back to my question : sometimes I try to use the new tone curve RGB to correct a blue tone or so, and then the preset name changes into "custom" and at the same time the curve nicely slopes the way I nudged it. When I then click on one of the presets in tone curve to L,M, or Strong the curve readjusts again.if I then check back on RGB blue channel again there is a nice straight diagonal as if nothing ever happened but the color tone seems to be preserved..net net it seems to do the right things to the pictures but the curve tells something different and that's what I don't get...
Sorry for the all the talk but I don't know how to explain it better. Perhaps I should just post a video of the dam thing.
Cheers. Frederic

Lr3 Tone curve Tutorials ?

I've done some googles for Tone Curve Tutorials but have not had much luck finding much - can you folks point me to some well explained or 'good' ones please?
Thank-you ~

Ian, thanks a lot for your interest in my problem.
Ian Lyons wrote:
Not sure what your issue issue because you can place as many or a few points on the Point Curve as you need to maintain control.
My problem is that the global effect a single point move entails forces me to use a large number of points. In order to adjust a local region (e.g., lift a small range of the midtones but leave everything else the same), I have to use at least seven points. Try this:
Start from a straight, unedited curve.
Insert a point at ~36.9 (X-axis) and move it up to 50% (Y-axis)
Insert a point at ~67.8 and move it down to 50%
Insert another point at ~50 (between the first two) and keep moving it up and down from 20% to 80%; watch the shape of the overall curve while doing this.
See how the "highlights" and "blacks" parts of the curve are heaviliy influenced while you are moving that middle point? Because of this, I find myself putting in more and more points to stop areas I don't want to see affected from changing shape. Try yourself to insert points to stop the local effect you want to achieve from having a global effect. You'll find that your additional "stop the effect"-points will themselves cause a non-local effect that you'll have to stop with further "stop"-points, etc.
I do realise that the tone curve needs to be smooth (mathematically, there shouldn't be any discontinuities in its first-order, or even second-order, derivation). I therefore understand the rationale of using splines and I also realise that LR is not the only program handling tone curves this way. However, I think the effect of moving one point is too global (i.e., non-local).
Still assuming the scenario above, try to put two "stop the global effect"-points at ~78/78 and 88/88 (in an attempt to have the highlight region unaffected by moving the point at 50. Then go back to step 4, i.e., move the point at 50 up and down. See how the shape of the curve between 88 and 100 still changes with large moves of the point at 50? That effect is completely unnecessary to make the curve smooth. It is just a side effect of using a particular kind of spline for the tone curve.
I hope I better expressed myself this time. Please let me know if a screenshot would help. It would be great if you could try the scenario and see whether you agree that some of the non-local effects are not really what the image editor intends.
P.S.: For recreating effects similar to that of the parametric control in a more precise way, I agree that the point edit mode works well. It is the "adjust small ranges of tonal shades" use case where it fails. I don't need the latter often but when I do, using the points is very laborious and often I feel like stopping before I got what I wanted because it is just too much of a hassle to fight all the ripple through effects.

Tone Curve beginning & end points - not moving

I am not the most technical guy in the world so I'll try to explain this as best as I can. In LR 4, why am I not able to drag the Tone Curve points up and down at the very start and end of the of the graph like in LR 3? I can drag them up and down everywhere except at the start and end points of the axis. This is one of my most used editing areas so it's quite disappointing and I can't get the result I want in LR 4. I have presets from LR 3 that can change the starting point on the tone curve but I can't fine tune it. Hopefully I explained this well enough because I would love some help on this. Cheers.

I think it's normal behaviour as per:
When you try to move vertically , the curve follows the lighter grey shape: this is region editing.
To do point curve editing click on the little graph curve and then you can do what you want, as per:
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Thanks Rich.,
That did it.
Wayne

Tone curve "region" disappeared

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