Warp Stabilization turn my video black, if I use more then "just stabilize".

Hey guys,
I've just started using the Master Collection of Adobes CS6 and I my first task was to stabilize a video.
So I opened it in Adobe After Effects and used the Warp Stabilizer.
Everything is fine, if I use "just stabilize". The video is shaky in it's little box.
But if I use more then that, the video turns black.
I want to use the option stabilize, crop, scale.
So, any idea what went wrong?
Thanks for reading.

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So, the first image is jsut before it gets to the stabilized section....
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Am I missing something stupid here?
Thanks

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[ email address removed by forum host ]

Harm is correct. It would be better to edit in the program where you keyed out the green. However, if you really must ...
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Thanks Jim.
The source stitched 176 frames for my test are about 1gb. So trying to get to the bottom of it without someone having to dl them (and it will take a while to put them up). The 8 frame version shows the same effect happening, just exaggerated. But its a fair call to assume maybe it would not happen with enough information to work with.
The original http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/full_ae_1080.mov I had tried at the time using detailed analysis as well to see if it fixed the issue, and the results were very similar.
I'd also found that using subspace warp instead of PSR (position, scale rotation), or even just P (position) seemed to generate some additional warping there in the output, and certainly for my footage did not result in making it better.
However, I have re-run the full footage starting from frames not a movie using detail analysis and subspace warp since you running that over the originally processed 1080 footage seemed to do a pretty good job.
The results are here : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/full_ae_1080_warp.mov?dl=1
You can see the warp is really messing it up, and the zooming is not fixed. Left hand side easiest place to see it.
Note I've found putting ?dl=1 on any of the links actually downloads them for anyone having issues with it simply playing in their browser. The way I am visiually checking any of these for issues (as many are at 1fps) is to load them into quicktime, change it to View, loop. Then In quicktime 7 holding FFWD. In quicktime 10 hitting forward until it runs at 8x. Looping at 8x is where you can really see the issue.
The files I had not broken out seperately that are in the source files upload were the results in after effects just using the 8 frames. Here they are seperately.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/1080_rez_p.mov?dl=1
Position only.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/1080_rez_psr.mov?dl=1
Position scale rotate.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/1080_rez.mov?dl=1
Unstablized.
I presume even with subspace warp you get the same results or worse using these 8 frame files.
If you ignore the extra warping/twisting in the new file, you have the same results as the original http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/full_ae_1080.mov?dl=1
played at 8x. The easiest place to see it is the mid left side where you can see it zooming in and out. The fact that it really only starts happening a 3rd the way through makes me think its simply not dealing with the changes in zoom, or the later pan changes in the source file. It wierd the photoshop processed version comes out fine though.
I was really hoping it was a case of, "ah, I see why it can't deal with those 8 frames, it really needs a manual tracker/stablizer doing x,y,z" But of course I'd be even happier with a tweak to the automated warp stabilizer.
If I do a 2nd run on the sample file http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/full_ae_1080.mov I notice selecting P, or PSR does not fix it. Selecting Perspective or Subspace (which probably includes perspective) seems to go a long way and have a similar result.
Leads me back to thinking selecting subspace on the original footage just warps it, selecting P or PSR fixes all but the zooming thing, and then reprocessing with perspective is tackling the persective in isolation which it could not effectively do before. I don't know if that is because you cannot select P&R without S scale. Or because AE's perspective adjustment cannot work effectively with images that have scale variences in them or ?
I've now run the ouput from a frames start via P and PSR. Brought them back in and prosessed with subspace and P and PSR. Results seems to be no better. There is some special sauce here somewhere with the reprocessing. Maybe its the codec I am going out to in the middle, maybe its the aspect ratio, maybe its ???
Might be time to u/l the full source files I guess.
Thanks for sticking with me.

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Greetings,
I have a pretty strong editing rig with 24gig of memory but with CS5, I still only selectively used the warp stabilizer in After Effects for short clips I was editing in Premiere Pro. I guess both because of the link and render hassles vs. benefits and time involved. In short, I used in when I had to and it usually worked.
With having it integrated in CS6 Premiere Pro now, I was wondering how performance was and if it was feasable for using it on longer shoot segments. Say I am editing some older camcorder footage that is rather shaky. Could I take a 20 or 30 minute chunk and expect it to correct and render in a reasonable time? Is there any ballpark estimate of footage time vs. warp stabilizer analyze and finish time?
I can't wait to use this as I upgrade to CS6 but don't want to expect too much.
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BJBBJB1

Kevin,
Thanks for the on point link! Sigh....it still looks like it consumes a lot of resources. They recommend splitting clips at the 5 minute mark.
However, perhaps running a larger clip through the process and rendering it out in a lossless format, and then bringing it back in for editing might be the way to go.
Which, come to think of it, is what we had to do with AE!
But certainly having it integrated for short clip stabilizing is still very nice.
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Premiere Pro CC's Warp Stabilizer BUGS...see for yourself. (7.0.1 & 7.1)

I'd love to hear from Adobe Staff on this one. Hopefully they can focus on fixes over features for the next update, especially for one it's most touted effects.
Warp Stabilizer works great at stabilizing clips in Premiere Pro CC...but I'm beginning to learn that it's quite buggy. The two bugs below simply cripple the user experience when you use the effect a lot like we do. Here's a link to a sample project with just 2 clips (around 1 minute in length each) on two separate timelines with each clip stabilized using the Warp Stabilizer effect. It's only a sample/test project meant to show the issue which can be MUCH larger in a longer/bigger project. Relink to any longer media and you'll quickly see what happens when you have multiple warp stabilizers applied to a Premiere Pro CC project and how problematic it can be.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105331144/Warp_Stabilizer_SAMPLE_Project.prproj
See for yourself.
Two VERY Annoying BUGS and One Unfortunate Feature:
BUG #1: (It affects 7.0.1 and the new 7.1 Release/Update)
1) With GPU Acceleration Enabled and both sequences open, once the timeline render bar has turned yellow, hit save.
2) Now toggle to the 2nd sequence and you'll notice a delay/freeze as the render bar switches back to red and then yellow again.
3) Now toggle back to the other sequence and you have the same thing occur. Then, you can toggle back and forth with no delay...until...the project saves (or auto-saves) again...and then the delay/freeze will happen all over again.
4) Side Note: Even when you right-click on the sequence in the Project window, there's a delay. Right-click on a sequence with no Warp Stabilizers and the drop down list pops up immediately.
What's the Big Deal?: When you have tons more warp stabilizer effects applied to multiple sequences, not only does it take a while to save, but when it does, you are forced to wait while Premiere Pro freezes momentarily. This affects AUTO-SAVE too!!! The more warp stabilizers, the longer the wait. Our sequences have delayed up to 30-40 seconds depending on how much we've used warp stabilizer in each sequence. Imagine if you have Auto-Save set to every 30 minutes or less, well that means that every 30 minutes or less you'll be forced to stop while premiere freezes up for 30-40 seconds or so (depending on how much this effect is used). Other effects do NOT have this issue.
BUG #2: (It affects only the new October Release/Update of Premiere 7.1...this issue is NEW and does NOT occur in 7.0.1!!!)
1) Take the above project into Premiere Pro CC 7.1 (again, this does NOT occur in the previous 7.0.1 release) and hit FILE>EXPORT>Media.
2) You'll notice a delay while the EXPORT SETTINGS popup opens.
3) Toggle to different "FORMATS" in the export settings window and there's more delays every time the format is switched.
What's the Big Deal?: Again, this is a small sample project. When you have a much bigger project with lots more Warp Stabilizers applied to many more clips this "delay" can extend up to several minutes!!! Yes, on a recent project over an hour with MANY warp stabilizers applied to lots of clips, it took 7 minutes for the Export Settings window to pop up after hitting EXPORT>Media. And there was about a one minute delay now when switching formats. This occurs whether GPU Accleration is enabled or not. It ONLY occurs on Premiere Pro CC 7.1
UNFORTUNATE FEATURE #1:
We obviously use Warp Stabilizer A LOT. It's a great effect. The above bugs cripple the user experience. This last issue isn't a bug, but rather a default setting on Premiere Pro's warp stabilizer that should be changed. Within the settings of Warp Stabilizer there's a section called "Method". The default setting is "Subspace Warp". That sounds pretty cool. But in practice, and we have had lots of practice (eg. THOUSANDS of clips stabilized in just the last few months alone (no exaggeration)), we've found that switching the default method to "Position, Scale, Rotation" is a MUCH more effective way to stabilize a clip. Most of the time it cuts down on that "wobble" that you might see in complex moving clips...but more importantly, 9 out of 10 times it crops the video either the same or less than when you use the default method. By "crops less" I mean that the "Auto-Scale %" is less. Of those 9 times, I'd guess 7 or 8 of them would crop in on the video less while the other 1 or 2 times there would be no change to the Auto-Scale %. Less scaling = better.
What's the Big Deal?: Well, as cool as Subspace Warp sounds, our numbers don't lie. Again, we use this effect on HUNDREDS of clips every week. When you have to go into hundreds and hundreds of clips every week and keep switching the setting so the effect will work better, it gets old real fast. We end up wasting so much time doing this but it's worth it because the results are undeniable. Why not create a CUSTOM PRESET???! Well, that'd be nice if it worked...but it doesn't. The problem with a custom preset like that is that when you drop it on a clip, it doesn't activate/analyze the clip automatically so you have to manually go into the settings and hit analyze which negates any time saved. It's be great if the default "method" was simply changed to Position, Scale, and Rotation. Or at the very least, it'd be great if one could create a custom preset that would automatically activate/analyze the clip it's dropped on (just like the original effect does).
(BONUS FEATURE: It'd also be nice to have the ability to set a "max scaling %" too so you never crop in more than a preselected amount...but first things first...fixes over features.)
NOTE: I'm on a 2011 suped up iMac running OSX 10.8.5

[r]Evolution wrote:
Would it help to Render these Warp Stabaliized clips instead of leaving them in the sequence w/ the Effect applied?
Any way to "Batch" Warp Stabalize your media before editing so the effect is not needed during the edit?
Sounds like you guys could benefit from having your shooters use a "Stabalizer".
Thanks for the rendering tip rEvolution. Rendering the clips does help with BUG#1, however, I'm not sure if it would truly save us any time because of the constant need to render and rerender tons of very short clips with this effect as we make adjustments to the edit. Warp Stabilizer is GPU Accelerated so playback is really smooth which is great but why does saving a project have any effect on this and cause it to freeze up? And then it works great...until the next time the project is saved. Using any other effect, there is no issue (that I've found) when a project is saved or auto-saved.
Rendering unfortunately has no effect on BUG#2 in Premiere 7.1 (again, this bug/issue did not occur in Premiere 7.0.1)
Regarding "batch" stabilizing...I'm not entirely sure what you mean. We do stabilize dozens of clips at a time before editing because it's imperative for us to know which clips (the sections we've pulled) will stabilize effectively. And then once the longer edit is complete we end up pulling all the best shots from that long sequence and copy/paste it to another sequence to make a 2nd shorter edit.
To say we've gone back and forth about the use of stabilizers would be an understatement. The fact is that we've spent almost 4 years creating a unique way to shoot based almost entirely around the effectiveness of warp stabilizer. It's taken years of trial and error but our style of shooting effectively allows us to mimick and thus replace the need for stabilizers, sliders and cranes. The extra freedom allows us to get MUCH more varied coverage of live events. It's different, I know, but it's fun and rewarding having a unique style. Granted the extra work is passed on to the editing side, but it's worth it IMO especially if these issues were addressed/fixed.
Regarding the "unfortunate feature" I mentioned, I would be satisfied knowing the default method works great for others if one were simply able to apply a custom preset of the clip with the adjusted method and it activated automatically and began analyzing the clip without the need to manually go into settings and hit analyze. That would be nice.
Thanks again for your input.

Can warp stabilizer ignore a portion of my film?

I work at a film archive where we use a digital scanner to capture images from 35 and 16 millimeter film frame by frame. The result is a file with what we refer to as "overscan" where the perforations and some of the information from the preceding and following frames are visible.
This works very well and turns out beautiful results, but the film will often have a slight bounce to it. I've found that warp stabilizer works very nicely to reduce or even completely do away with this bounce on clips that have an immobile camera. I do not wish to stabilize camera shake (that wouldn't exactly be preserving the work), but I do wish to stabilize this bounce.
Is there a way for shakier footage, for example, a collection of home videos we've been attempting to stabilize, to be masked off in some way so that the Warp Stabilizer focuses only on the bounce of the film itself and not the shake from the original operator of the camera? I imagine there must be some way (without point-tracking, preferably) to focus the stabilizer on the perforations or some part of the film itself rather than the footage it contains.
I've looked at the videos where keylighting is used to "outsmart" the Warp Stabilizer's assumptions about foreground, but unfortunately that doesn't exactly work for my particular problem.
Any help is very much appreciated.

No, unfortunately not. At this point there is no way to differentiate between different types of shake e.g. by ways of additional trackers or mask paths like you can do in some plug-ins. It's an all or nothing thing.
Mylenium

5 things which should be improved in the Warp Stabilizer

1. Performance.
When stabilizing any footage I always ask myself: "What the heck is he doing there?!" not even a single core is really working hard. It looks like an idle background process The GPU is idle as well, as the analysis pass is only run on the CPU.
This maybe okay if you still need much work to do in Premiere. But often, the next steps DEPEND on the stabilization and you have to WAIT and WAIT and WAIT...
It's just painful to imagine that, running a machine with 8 cores, more than 8 times the amount of video material COULD be analyzed.
The free Deshaker for Virtualdub actually uses more cores (even though not at 100%) but analyzes at about 20-21fps compared to the Warp Stabilizer at about 4-8fps.
Admitted, the Deshakers results aren't nearly as good (especially with rolling shutter, which can be configured though, but you don't always know the right percentage for the cam you're using).
This also applies to opening projects with much stabilization data. It opens... and opens... rarely any disk activity and rarely any CPU or GPU activity. Again: WHAT IS HE DOING THERE? Just waiting for the clock itself?! Or is he sending it all to the NSA? That at least would explain the unneccesary delay:P (just kidding!)
2. Stabilization data.
For me, I wouldn't have any problem with storing it just inside a project folder or a separate file. Just add a checkbox into the plugin settings:
[x] Store stabilisation data in separate file/folder.
This may be then called [projectName].stabilization
Inside that folder, there will be maybe one file for every effect used in the project.
...or you can use the old way, if you don't have so much stabilization work to do.
3. Small bugs.
When using "stabilize only", the resulting frame, at least in Premiere Pro, has a HUGE "DC offset" sometimes. This is a term from music producing, but exactly fits in here. You can clearly see it when there are still images that shouldn't receive much of stabilization. They're somtimes shifted far out of the viewing frame, leaving big black borders, so you have to manually adjust the frame position to fit back into a "neutral" position. This could be resolved to let the whole correcting curve undergo something like a "low pass filter" which will try to keep the resulting frame SOMEHOW centered.
In this image above, from a longer clip, there isn't much motion at all. But you can see how far the offset from the actual video frame is. I have to do this for almost every video, also after I change the "smoothness" setting.
4. More control
I would LOVE to be able to disable "zoom detection", because it gives me lots of "Vertigo Effects" in many cases.
I heard this has been alredy addressed for CC.
5. Improvements / new features
One thing I always do with every stabilized video:
Instead of synthesize edges, which takes AGES to render, I just do the following:
I place the same clip, unstabilized, behind the stabilized clip (stabilized, borders only) and give the stabilized clip softened borders with "rough edges". This even still renders fine on the GPU.
This would make a great option for the stabilizer. Just call it "overlay over original with blurred edges" or something like that.
This has worked extremely well for any stabilized footage so far and isn't nearly as disturbing as the synthesized edges.
I'm considering to join the Creative Cloud, because unless I do this I don't expect to see any improvements in my old and out-dated Premiere PRO CS6...

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform to file a feature request... insert a reference to this message link

Warp Stabilization turn my video black, if I use more then "just stabilize".

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