Why does 'pacman' produce purely informational output?

My apologies if this dead horse has already been beaten. A brief search didn't turn up any forum topics that addressed this issue.
Many Unix programs adhere to the dictum that successful execution should produce no output unless something interesting or surprising happened. The canonical example is running 'ls' on an empty directory.
'pacman' doesn't follow this design philosophy even if the '--quiet' switch is given.
# pacman -Syq
:: Synchronizing package databases...
core is up to date
extra is up to date
community is up to date
multilib is up to date
As I understand it, the rationale is the desire to be able to use programs in a pipe. If the output contains purely informational text, then every program that uses that program's output has first to throw away the informational text.
Of course it's easy enough to quieten 'pacman'
pacman -Sy | sed '/^:: /d'
or even
pacman -Sy | sed '/^:: \|is up to date$/d'
So, I have a two part question: Why does 'pacman' produce purely informational text and why doesn't the '--quiet' switch really quieten 'pacman'?
Thanks for any insight.

I used firefox as an example of the differences between using query and search with and without the '-quiet' switch:
[karol@black ~]$ pacman -Q firefox
firefox 3.6.13-1
[karol@black ~]$ pacman -Qq firefox
firefox
[karol@black ~]$ pacman -Ss firefox
extra/firefox 3.6.13-1 [0,74 MB] [installed]
Standalone web browser from mozilla.org
extra/firefox-i18n 3.6.13-1 [4,47 MB]
Language packs for Firefox
extra/totem-plugin 2.32.0-3 [0,14 MB]
Totem mozilla/firefox plugin
community/arch-firefox-search 0.7-6 [0,00 MB] [installed]
Firefox Arch search engines (AUR, Pkgs, BBS, Wiki, etc.)
community/firefox-adblock-plus 1.3.3-1 [0,30 MB]
plugin for firefox which block ads and banners
community/firefox-noscript 2.0.9.8-1 [0,37 MB]
plugin for firefox which disables script
community/firefox-spell-ru 0.4.3-3 [0,50 MB]
Russian spellchecker dictionary for Firefox
unarch/firebrand 3.6-2 [0,00 MB]
A script to brand Firefox without recompiling.
unarch/swiftfox-athlon64 3.6.8-1 [9,42 MB]
Swiftfox is a prebuilt version of Firefox3, optimized for Athlon64 processors.
unarch/swiftfox-i686 3.6.8-1 [9,43 MB]
Swiftfox is a prebuilt version of Firefox3, optimized for i686 architectures.
unarch/swiftfox-prescott 3.6.8-1 [9,10 MB]
Swiftfox is a prebuilt version of Firefox3, optimized for Core Solo/Duo processors.
archlinuxfr/swiftfox-i686-fr 3.6.13-1 [9,51 MB]
Mozilla Firefox optimized build for OLD AMD and INTEL processors on x86 architecture (French version)
archlinuxfr/swiftweasel-amd-pgo 3.5.6-2 [9,59 MB]
Mozilla Firefox optimized build for AMD processors on x86 architecturei (with xulrunner 1.9.1.7).
archlinuxfr/swiftweasel-amd-pgo-fr 3.5.6-2 [9,60 MB]
Mozilla Firefox optimized build for AMD processors on x86 architecture (French version) (with xulrunner 1.9.1.7).
archlinuxfr/swiftweasel-intel-pgo-fr 3.5.6-1 [3,92 MB]
Mozilla Firefox optimized build for INTEL processors on x86 architecture (French version).
archlinuxfr/wto 1.0.3-3 [0,01 MB]
web tv orange sans firefox et enregistreur en python
cake/firefox 3.6-1 [0,95 MB] [installed: 3.6.13-1]
Mozilla.org Web Browser
cinan/firefox-pgo 3.6.8-2 [9,11 MB]
Mozilla Firefox customizable web browser (XULRunner independent, PGO optimized, 64-bit TraceMonkey)
cinan/mozplugger 1.14.1-1 [0,04 MB]
A Mozilla & Firefox multimedia plugin.
rfad/firefox-pgo 3.0.10-1 [8,09 MB]
Mozilla Firefox. XULRunner independent. And optimized for faster use :)
[karol@black ~]$ pacman -Ssq firefox
firefox
firefox-i18n
totem-plugin
arch-firefox-search
firefox-adblock-plus
firefox-noscript
firefox-spell-ru
firebrand
swiftfox-athlon64
swiftfox-i686
swiftfox-prescott
swiftfox-i686-fr
swiftweasel-amd-pgo
swiftweasel-amd-pgo-fr
swiftweasel-intel-pgo-fr
wto
firefox
firefox-pgo
mozplugger
firefox-pgo
I think this is how the switch is meant to work. I posted a link to a bug/feature request that deals with a similar issue to what you report here.
Maybe info about every repo - even if it's up to date - is printed for the sake of consistency?

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Why does pacman lock the database during downloads?

Something that's always irked me about pacman is the fact that it locks the package database during the download stages of package installation, before anything has actually been installed/committed. Is there a reason for this, and if not, would a suggestion/patch be acceptable?
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Last edited by itsbrad212 (2012-03-24 00:36:31)

krigun wrote:
Sounds reasonable, but the following scenario may or may not be a problem:
You have package A B and C installed:
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I think it's the same with apt-get.
That's an interesting point, although I'm guessing the package manager could check to make sure that all packages that it wants to update are present on the system right after it locks the db, and if for some (rare) reason that one is missing, skip it.
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What is that large package which you think is that big?
I think locking is present in all package managers in all distributions and it is a good Idea, so that someone can't install and uninstall a package at different terminals at the same time, and end up with a messed up package manager .
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How could it become messed up? I'm not proposing the database lock be eliminated, but rather wait until the actual installation process begins before locking it. It's no skin off anybody's ass if someone simply downloads packages simultaneously.

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Directed to dp:
dp wrote:the short times result, because you have some files already in ram
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Why does 'pacman' produce purely informational output?

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