Why won't TimeMachine backup?

Hi, all.
I am using a standard MacBook Pro 15 inch with normal memory. I have a 320 GB My Passport and I've been using it in conjunction with TimeMachine. Yesterday, I tried to backup more data after uploading new pictures. However, it was disrupted and a message popped up that explained that My Passport only has 69 GB but needs 219GB for the backup. I've never had this problem before...
But I decided to clear old backups and try to backup again. Even with more room available on My Passport, it's not allowing me to backup. Why not?
Any help would be great! Thanks!

From the addition of 219 GB of photos, I would guess you have more than 350 GB on your main disk.
TM or any backup disks should be at least 2x the size of the disk being backed up, for reasons that should be obvious now.  TM keeps "hsitorical" backups to allow recovery to different points in time.
Also, 350GB sounds like a bus-powered (powered by the USB cable).  Backup drives should be self-powered.
You can repartition that TM drive now, and continue trying to use it as TM.  But I think you should start by getting  an external/self-powered drive that is at least 2x the size of your internal disk (your aparent use of 200+ GB of new files suggests 3x).  Buy one that says "For Mac" to avoid formatting issues.
Just like you would not turn a screw with a hammer, you need to start with the correct tools.
After you buy this drive, start a new post "Preparing a disk for clone backups and re-using a 'too-small' TM disk".
You will get enough responses to help you set up a a valid backup strategy.
I have 2 external disks, 1 has a CarbonCopyClone backup and 1 TimeMachine, both are 1 TB, to backup my 500 GB startup disk.  So this is from experience.

Similar Messages

  • Why won't my backup to Icloud perform?

    I have been to the At&T store, they also tried unsucsessfully to perform a backup to Icloud, and they can't figure our why my Iphone will not back up to Icloud. There is plenty of available space and all updates have been done. Any ideas?

    This may be caused by a corrupt existing backup that needs to be deleted, or by data on your device that is causing the backup to fail.  To troubleshoot these, try deleting your last iCloud backup (if you have one) by turning off iCloud Backup in Settings>iCloud>Storage & Backup, then tap Manage Storage, tap your device under Backups, then tap Delete Backup.  Then go back and turn iCloud Backup back on and try backing up again.
    If it still won't back up, you may have an app or something in your camera roll that is causing the backup to fail.  To locate which one, go to Settings>iCloud>Storage & Backup>Manage Storage, tap the name of your device under Backups, under Backup Options tap Show All Apps, then turn them all to Off (including camera roll) and try backing up again.  If the backup is successful, then the camera roll and/or one of your apps is causing the backup to fail and you'll have to located by process of elimination. Turn the camera roll On and try backing up again.  If it succeeds, turn some of your apps to On and try backing up again.  If it succeeds again, turn some more apps to On then try again; repeat this process until it fails.  Eventually you'll be able to locate the problem app and exclude it from your backup.

  • TS3992 When I try to back up my iphone onto icloud it won't do it and I get a message saying "The last backup could not be completed." What am I doing wrong and why won't it backup?

    How do I get my iphone to backup?

    Welcome to the Apple Community.
    If your back up continually fails, you might try turning off back up on your mobile device (settings > iCloud > storage & backup) and then deleting the backup file from iCloud by swiping the backup file on the mobile device (settings > iCloud > storage & backup > manage…) and then turning back up on again.
    Being able to back up to the cloud can be very useful, especially if you don't have access to a computer or have infrequent access to one, however unless you specifically need to use iCloud for back up, you will find backing up to iTunes significantly more convenient and possibly more reliable.

  • My backup drive is no longer bootable after TimeMachine backup to it. Why?

    When I purchased a Lacie Porche 350 GB Firewire drive, I partitioned it properly via Disk Utilities and backed up my entire Hard drive using SilverKeeper to one of the two drives created by partitioning, resulting in an OS 10.4.10 Tiger bootable drive. Which I tested and it booted up perfectly. The day prior to upgrading to Leopard OS, I used SilverKeeper to back up everything on my hard drive again, since there were a lot of system software, security, also software programs and utilty updates on board since mm initial backup. Afterwards, I checked out the bootability of my back up drive (partition), which again worked perfectly.
    After installing Leopard, TimeMachine recognized and asked if I wanted it to back up my hard drive (with Leopard O)S to the same (it recognized) named backup drive (partition) and I clicked yes. TM's backup of my entire hard drive went quickly and without a hitch. I knew TM's backup was not a bootable type, but figured that I still had a bootable Tiger system on the same drive if I needed to use that in an emergency and decided to test that out again.
    Was wrong! Previously bootable drive no longer showed up in Startup Disk to select from in System Preferences. Thus no longer bootable! I now have 2 full backups of my entire hard drive (one with Tiger, the other with Leopard) on the one external drive, neither are bootable. Guess I can boot up from the installer DVD in emergency, but that wasn't the reason why I made a bootable backup drive to begin with.
    Don't know if and what TM did that rendered the formerly bootable drive unbootable. Did nothing to change the previously working bootable drive. Anyone else have similar experience after running TM? Idea of cause? Suggestions, or work-a-round? Is this a known issue, or should this be sent to Apple's Feedback?
    Thank you kindly,
    superush

    The TimeMachine backups were made to the same bootable clone partition that the Tiger bootable clone is on mentioned in my original post. The bootable clone was backed up there via SilverKeeper, which is included in the software that came with the 350 GB ,LaCie Porche external firewire drive.
    Am now thinking that perhaps that version of SilverKeeper, which was recognized by my OS Tiger, may not be recognized by Leopard OS, and when used TM to make backup to same partition cloned bootable drive, that may have made my bootable SilverKeeper backup clone null and void.
    Could that be the possibility?
    Best regards,
    superush

  • HT1766 Why won't my phone back up since I just bought additional iCloud storage--it spends hours saying "Backup in progress" and then it just fails?!

    Why won't my phone back up since I just bought additional iCloud storage--- it spends hours showing "Backup in Progress" and then it just fails?!  I have it plugged in next to the computer and I turn it off after hitting Backup but it never completes.... Should I just give up and try to get my money back?

    I'm having the same problem with my iPad (3). It's been saying that my last backup was 10/11/2012. I have tried rebooting (holding down the home and start keys to reset) and then trying to manually do a backup to the cloud. I have tried deleting the iCloud backups for all apps & setting all of them to not be included in the cloud backup (thinking that maybe one of the apps might be hanging the backup up). I have now deleted the last iCloud backup. I guess I will wait & see if it performs its backup overnight or something. As mentioned above, it has consistently been 1) plugged in, 2) connected to a wifi network, and 3) been in lock screen mode. And yet it hasn't been backing up either automatically (iCloud Backup is set to "on") or if I touch 'Back Up Now'.
    Here's something that's really annoying- these posts started last April but I see no sign that anyone from Apple Support has joined this conversation. (!!)

  • Why won't icloud merge or backup all my contacts?

    Why won't icloud copy all my contacts in Outlook?  Some are backed up and merged some aren't!

    I had similar problem.  This worked for me, hope it helps:
    In Mail
    Open Preferences>Accounts
    Select Advanced tab for the iCloud account
    Set Authentication to 'Apple Token'
    The Password field on the Account Info tab should now have disappeared.
    Mail no longer asks for password every time it launches.
    (now i just have to solve why mail launches an upgrade dialogue every single time it opens and then proceeds to try and re-download about 25,000 emails...)
    Why the Authentication method suddenly switched when I upgraded ML to Mav who knows, but it seems incredible that no-one at Apple came across this, it's one of their prime apps.
    In fact, since upgrading to Mav I've had numerous system wide problems with my iCloud accounts not connecting properly or stably - what on earth are the thousands of engineers at Apple doing?

  • MBP 2011: TimeMachine Backup to NAS via Wifi - Freeze. Why?

    Hi,
    strange situation:
    When performing a TimeMachine backup to my NAS (Drobo FS) my MBP crashed after about 30 mins (repeatable). This only occurs when using WIFI - no prob's via ethernet.
    Some more details:
    Max OS X 10.6.8
    MacBookPro8,2 (Early 2011)
    Intel Core i7, 2,3 GHz, 4 Core
    8GB RAM
    750 GB HDD
    Network:
    Router: AVM Firtz!Box 7320, Gigabit Router
    NAS: Drobo FS, 2TB + 1 TB + 1 TB HDD, Time Machine Share, 1,5 TB Share, connected to Fritz!Box
    WIFI: 2,4 GHz, WLAN-N 150 MBit/s
    Software:
    Trend Micro Security (same issue with new user account, without trend micro active)
    No problems with MacBook Air or MacMini.
    Any idea?

    Hi,
    strange situation:
    When performing a TimeMachine backup to my NAS (Drobo FS) my MBP crashed after about 30 mins (repeatable). This only occurs when using WIFI - no prob's via ethernet.
    Some more details:
    Max OS X 10.6.8
    MacBookPro8,2 (Early 2011)
    Intel Core i7, 2,3 GHz, 4 Core
    8GB RAM
    750 GB HDD
    Network:
    Router: AVM Firtz!Box 7320, Gigabit Router
    NAS: Drobo FS, 2TB + 1 TB + 1 TB HDD, Time Machine Share, 1,5 TB Share, connected to Fritz!Box
    WIFI: 2,4 GHz, WLAN-N 150 MBit/s
    Software:
    Trend Micro Security (same issue with new user account, without trend micro active)
    No problems with MacBook Air or MacMini.
    Any idea?

  • Please help: How to replace all data on mid-2010 MacBook Pro 15 with Timemachine backup from 2009 MBP 13

    OK so I bought a mid-2010 MacBook pro 15 from a friend and he did not erase anything before he gave it to me. I was previously working on a 2009 MacBook pro 13 and have a Timemachine backup from that which I would like to install on the MBP 15 replacing all of the current data.
    I have tried rebooting using the OSX disc that came with the MBP 15 but that won't work - I am assuming that is because the OSX disc is version 10.6.3 while the current OS on the MBP 15 is 10.7.4
    What is the best/easiest way to use the Timemachine backup of my MBP 13" to replace all info on the MBP 15"?
    This seems like something that should be easy but I have been trying to do it since last night and haven't found relevant info in the discussion forums. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
    Thanks!

    MacBook Pro 15" 2010
    Intel Core i7 2.8GHz M 640 Arrandale Cores 2  (2867)
    8GB max RAM 2 - 204-pin PC3-8500 (1066 MHz) DDR3 SO-DIMM
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M 512MB (15.85) (369) and Intel HD Graphics 3000 (10) (309)
    MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2012
    Intel Core i7 3520M Ivy Bridge Cores 2 (4519)*
    16GB RAM max actual (8GB Apple) 2 - 204-pin PC3-12800 (1600 MHz) DDR3 SO-DIMM
    Intel HD Graphics 4000 (unknown) (465)*
    The 13" is a more powerful machine and it has more RAM capacity.

  • My iPod will charge in the computer but not my iPod dock, my sisters iPod dock or the wall charger. My sisters iPod will charge in all and we both have the same sofware and generation. Why won't mine charge?

    My Ipod will charge in the computer but noy my iPod dock, my sisters iPod dock or the wall charger. My sisters iPod will charge in all and we both have the same software and generation. Why won't mine charge?

    Look the dock connector on your iPod. Look for abnormalities like bent or corred contacts, foreign material and cracked/broken plastic.
    Try:
    - A reset. Nothing is lost
    Reset iPod touch: Hold down the On/Off button and the Home button at the same time for at
    least ten seconds, until the Apple logo appears..
    - Restore from backup
    - Restore to factory settings/new iPod

  • HT1351 why won't my ipod nano sync automatically anyone? I got a new laptop, authorized it, but can no longer sync music. right now there is no music at all on my nano. Hellp!

    Hi
    Bought a new laptop and can't sync anymore. I enabled my laptop...should be all set. But, my nano now has no music on it! My music library shows up in itunes. Why won't music sync to my nano?
    Help!!argh

    Try:
    - Reset the iOS device. Nothing will be lost      
    Reset iOS device: Hold down the On/Off button and the Home button at the same time for at
    least ten seconds, until the Apple logo appears.
    - Unsync/delete all music and resync
    To delete all music go to Settings>General>Usage>Storage>Music>Tap edit in upper right and then tap the minus sign by All Music
    - Reset all settings                            
    Go to Settings > General > Reset and tap Reset All Settings.
    All your preferences and settings are reset. Information (such as contacts and calendars) and media (such as songs and videos) aren’t affected.
    - Restore from backup. See:                                               
    iOS: Back up and restore your iOS device with iCloud or iTunes
      - Restore to factory settings/new iOS device.                       

  • How to copy a networked TimeMachine backup to a USB drive and restore from it?

    Hi,
    I backup my MacBook Air with TimeMachine to my QNAP NAS which offers a TimeMachine backup service and I can restore data from it OK.
    Working in IT, and being a bit paranoid about important data loss, I am concerned that if I was robbed or my house burnt down I would most likely lose both the MacBook and the TimeMachine Backup on my NAS :-(
    To protect against this I have backup my (linux based) NAS to an external drive that I keep offsite. This drive is encrypted to keep my data secure with a Linux form of encryption (cryptsetup) and hence can't be plugged into a MacBook to try and restore from it - I doubt this would work either as the TimeMachine data is not located in the root of the drive.
    So what I have done to test my restore process is to mount the encrypted NAS backup that include the TimeMachine backup folders on a Linux machine and then copy the TimeMachine data to the root of an HFS+ formatted external USB drive.
    But, now I am stuck as how to try and restore something from this to my MacBook to see if the copy of the TimeMachine backup is good. If I press the Alt key on the TimeMachine icon, I can select an alternate backup device and when I enter TimeMachine to browse the data, I can browse the structure but there is no option to go back in time !! It seems like it is not possible to restore from this copy of the TimeMachine backup.
    Does anyone know if this should be possible, and if so, what am I doing wrong here?
    Rgds
    Gary

    For anyone else that may be in a similar situation, I can confirm that this does actually work.
    I am unsure why I was not able to mount the original sparseimage that I copied to the USB drive before, but I have gone through the entire process again and I could successfully mount the TM sparseimage onto my MacBook and restore files from within it using TimeMachine to my Mac.
    This is a Disaster Recovery solution only needed for if both my NAS and Macbook get stolen or damaged so I am happy with this solution for now.
    I will try the restore process several more times from my monthly backups to reassure myself that the first failure to mount the sparse image was an anomaly.
    This is the process that I have tested:
    Configure MacBook to backup to TimeMachine Service running on QNAP NAS device.
    Perform regular backup of QNAP NAS Device (Linux) including the TimeMachine backup data to an external USB drive with encryption enabled and store this device safely off-site
    In time of loss of both NAS and MacBook, Time Machine data can be recovered to another Mac without the need of the NAS  using the following process:
    Mount the external drive containing the backup of the NAS filesystem (ext4) which is encrypted onto a Linux host so it is readable - use the cryptsetup luksOpen options to access the encrypted filesystem then mount it.
    Mount a n empty HFS+ formatted USB drive  on the Linux host
    Use Rsync to copy the sparsebundle from the external NAS drive backup disk to the root of the USB Drive
    Insert the HFS+ formatted USB containing the sparesbundle into the Mac's USB port
    Double click the sparsebundle to mount it onto the Mac as a Volume
    Using Alt button and the TimeMachine icon, select use alternative backup disk and you should see the TM backup in the sparsebundle
    Enter TimeMachine and you should be able to restore any/all files
    Hope that helps someone else and thanks to LaPastenague for pointing me in the direction of some of the answers I needed.
    Rgds
    Gary

  • Why won't my Mac, with Mountain Lion installed boot up?

    I had problems getting my Mac to boot so I made a Genius Bar appointment at my local Apple Store.  The ran some tests and discovered a "disk i/o" error which they said indicated that my hard drive needed replacing.  Hard drive replaced, brought it home, restarted, set up, Disk Utility run (permission checks out, disk checks out), Time Machine back up loaded and still all I get is the grey screen with the apple logo and the spinning wheel (not beach ball).  Why won't it boot up?  Any ideas???

    Take each of these steps that you haven't already tried. Stop when the problem is resolved.
    Step 1
    The first step in dealing with a boot failure is to secure your data. If you want to preserve the contents of the startup drive, and you don't already have at least one current backup, you must try to back up now, before you do anything else. It may or may not be possible. If you don't care about the data that has changed since your last backup, you can skip this step.   
    There are several ways to back up a Mac that is unable to boot. You need an external hard drive to hold the backup data.a. Boot into Recovery by holding down the key combination command-R at the startup chime, or from a local Time Machine backup volume (option key at startup.) Release the keys when you see a gray screen with a spinning dial. When the OS X Utilities screen appears, launch Disk Utility and follow the instructions in this support article, under “Instructions for backing up to an external hard disk via Disk Utility.”
    b. If you have access to a working Mac, and both it and the non-working Mac have FireWire or Thunderbolt ports, boot the non-working Mac in target disk mode by holding down the key combination command-T at the startup chime. Connect the two Macs with a FireWire or Thunderbolt cable. The internal drive of the machine running in target mode will mount as an external drive on the other machine. Copy the data to another drive. This technique won't work with USB, Ethernet, Wi-Fi, or Bluetooth.
    c. If the internal drive of the non-working Mac is user-replaceable, remove it and mount it in an external enclosure or drive dock. Use another Mac to copy the data.
    Step 2
    Press and hold the power button until the power shuts off. Disconnect all wired peripherals except those needed to boot, and remove all aftermarket expansion cards. Use a different keyboard and/or mouse, if those devices are wired. If you can boot now, one of the devices you disconnected, or a combination of them, is causing the problem. Finding out which one is a process of elimination.
    If you've booted from an external storage device, make sure that your internal boot volume is selected in the Startup Disk pane of System Preferences.
    Step 3
    Boot in safe mode. Note: If FileVault is enabled, or if a firmware password is set, or if the boot volume is a software RAID, you can’t do this. Post for further instructions.
    Safe mode is much slower to boot and run than normal, and some things won’t work at all, including wireless networking on certain Macs.
    The login screen appears even if you usually log in automatically. You must know your login password in order to log in. If you’ve forgotten the password, you will need to reset it before you begin.
    When you boot in safe mode, it's normal to see a dark gray progress bar on a light gray background. If the progress bar gets stuck for more than a few minutes, or if the system shuts down automatically while the progress bar is displayed, your boot volume is damaged and the drive is probably malfunctioning. In that case, go to step 5.
    If you can boot and log in now, empty the Trash, and then open the Finder Info window on your boot volume ("Macintosh HD," unless you gave it a different name.) Check that you have at least 9 GB of available space, as shown in the window. If you don't, copy as many files as necessary to another volume (not another folder on the same volume) and delete the originals. Deletion isn't complete until you empty the Trash again. Do this until the available space is more than 9 GB. Then reboot as usual (i.e., not in safe mode.)
    If the boot process hangs again, the problem is likely caused by a third-party system modification that you installed. Post for further instructions.
    Step 4
    Sometimes a boot failure can be resolved by resetting the NVRAM.
    Step 5
    Launch Disk Utility in Recovery mode (see Step 1.) Select your startup volume, then run Repair Disk. If any problems are found, repeat until clear. If Disk Utility reports that the volume can't be repaired, the drive has malfunctioned and should be replaced. You might choose to tolerate one such malfunction in the life of the drive. In that case, erase the volume and restore from a backup. If the same thing ever happens again, replace the drive immediately.
    This is one of the rare situations in which you should also run Repair Permissions, ignoring the false warnings it may produce. Look for the line "Permissions repair complete" at the end of the output. Then reboot as usual.
    Step 6
    Boot into Recovery again. When the OS X Utilities screen appears, follow the prompts to reinstall the OS. If your Mac was upgraded from an older version of OS X, you’ll need the Apple ID and password you used to upgrade.
    Note: You need an always-on Ethernet or Wi-Fi connection to the Internet to use Recovery. It won’t work with USB or PPPoE modems, or with proxy servers, or with networks that require a certificate for authentication.
    Step 7
    Repeat step 6, but this time erase the boot volume in Disk Utility before installing. The system should automatically reboot into the Setup Assistant. Follow the prompts to transfer your data from a backup.
    Step 8
    A dead logic-board battery in a Mac Pro can cause a gray screen at boot. Typically the boot failure will be preceded by loss of the startup disk and system clock settings. See the user manual for replacement instructions.
    Step 9
    If you get this far, you're probably dealing with a hardware fault. Make a "Genius" appointment at an Apple Store to have the machine tested.

  • Why won't my FireWire HD partitions stay mounted on my desktop?

    Why won't my FireWire HD partitions stay mounted on my desktop? I recenly purchased a quad interface 500GB external HD from OWC (which is connected via FW800). I then partitioned it for TIME MACHINE, some room for a backup of my primary HD, and partitions for boot disks for LION, SNOW LEOPARD, & TIGER. All partitions seem to be OK as well as the backup I made of my primary HD (using SuperDuper). My Energy Saver prefs are set to sleep the display in 3 minutes and the Hard Drive in 15 minutes. I fried one of my processors on the old Quicksilver by setting the Hard Drive sleep to NEVER. Don't want to make that mistake again on this Mac Mini, but I'm afraid that it is these prefs that are causing the primary internal HD to sleep, and at the same time lose my new external HD. Mysteriously, I have a SimpleTech 160GB HD with two partitions connected via USB2.0 and these NEVER dissappear.
    Anyone have some helpful advice? It would be greatly appreciated.

    Well, it's now Sunday, around 11:00am. What I have discovered has nothing at all to do with Energy Saver prefs as I had previously suspected. This morning, after having unchecked the box that would "Put the hard disk(s) to sleep when possible," I woke the computer and discovered that once again all partitions of my new external hard drive were no longer mounted. So I thought of trying something new.
    Because I believed it to be insignificant, I failed to mention that this hard drive has two FireWire 800 ports. One is connected directly to the Mac Mini, the other I used to daisy chain a connection to my iSight camera (FireWire 400) using a bilingual cable. I wondered if the daisy chain might be causing a problem somehow. Incidentally, the iSight camera launches iChat whenever I turn the new HD off and then on again. An action which has always caused the missing partitions to mount. iChat launches even if the aperture cover is closed (turns camera off). Note: connected this way the iSight camera has been working fine.
    So this is what I tried next. I simply unplugged the bilingual cord connecting my iSight camera. The first time the computer went to sleep, when I woke it again all the partitions were right where they should be. So I took the next step by once again checking the box next to "Put the hard disk(s) to sleep when possible.” Now the Energy Saver prefs are once again set exactly the way they were before I bought this new drive. I left for church at 7:45 and returned around 11:00am. Again, when I woke the computer all partitions of the new drive were exactly where they should be.
    So, problem gone. But now how do I connect my iSight camera? And why is it causing all the partitions for the external drive to drop from the desktop every time the computer sleeps?
    I have a son in the Navy and use the iSight to video chat when he is overseas. Is there something obviously wrong about the way I had the iSight camera connected? I would certainly welcome any help or suggestions.
    Thanks in advance,
                   —Lakerunner

  • Why won't my iPhone vibrate anymore?

    Why won't my iPhone vibrate anymore?

    Basic troubleshooting from the User's Guide is reset, restart, restore (first from backup then as new).  Try each of these in order until the issue is resolved.

  • Why won't my nike and iPod app work anymore

    Why won't my Nike+iPod app work on my iPod touch anymore? I just get a red screen then it closes. Anyone have an idea why this happens. It work fine not to long ago but I went to use it today and it's not working.

    - Try a reset. Nothing will be lost.
    Reset iPod touch:  Press and hold the On/Off Sleep/Wake button and the Home
    button at the same time for at least ten seconds, until the Apple logo appears.
    - Next try restoring from backup
    - Last, restore to factory defaults/new iPod.

Maybe you are looking for

  • I tried to set up two users on one computer, now I can't make iTunes match work for either.

    Lots of people seem to be having multiples user problems on iTunes, but I can't find a solution to mine so please help. I got a new iMac.  Switched it on.  Connected to iTunes Match - all fine and dandy. After a couple of weeks I decided I should fol

  • Reading an xml file in the web services java file

    I want to read some data in the webservices file.so i am writing my own xml file through which i want to read data.but i am not able to read xml file from web services file.also , i am not able to put xml file in the .ear file,as there is no such tag

  • Is there a way to scan a string containing % (percent symbols) using the "Scan from String" function?

    I am communicating serially with a chilled mirror device and the input string syntax contains this text: "%RH=<input value>" I have not been able to figure out how to tell the function that the percent here is not a format specifier. Is this possible

  • Wierd Array Error

    So I was making a simple selection sort program that would read in an array and then sort it using the aforementioned method and received a very strange error. I have made similar programs before and never encountered this error and cannot find what

  • Pdf printing hidden lines

    Hi there, Acrobat X Professional 10.1.3. I keep bumping into files that contain & print horizontal lines throughout the document. I'm at a loss. These documents were sent to me from a client and not created here. You can see these lines in the thumbn