Working Capital "PILOT PROGRAM" we're the lab rats!

Question

I received an email introducing PAYPAL Working Capital end of Jan 2014. It sounded to good to be true but figured I'd give it a try. I was pleasantly surprised when in short order I was approved and given an offer. What wasn't clear if you didn't take all offered the rest would not be sitting in a hold pattern for you to may use of at a later time. The next day when going into the working capital link all I found was my balance due and no offset for the loan leftovers. When I called to ask I was told if I didn't take all that was offered what I didn't was not excessible. I was told once I paid off the loan I could apply for another one. Initially, had no intention of paying off early, but did some brain storming realized I could save myself some serious overhead with a plan I wanted to implement. To do that though I needed to have "some working capital". Here's where this doesn't fly as a tool to assist businesses. Having worked in banks for many years, I have a solid sense of the approval protoccols for bank loans. I was in no position to pay the loan off early, however I would only be out those resource for a few days, as I would have a new "Working Capital" funded and this time I would take all that was offered. In banking there are set parameters for loan approvals. Lenders know what their criteria is and can and WILL tell you what they will need, to approve your loan. ie; time in business, amount of income required based on amount of loan you seek, and what they will need to verify your income. There is no hidden requirements you would not know about. The lender wants your business and would like to make you a loan. It is how banks make money. If you were declined a lender/loan officer (a good one) doesn't assume you'll never be able to meet the requirements to get approved. However you might not even put yourself through the whole process because you know you are falling short on some of the requirements. However, even though you got a decline before you even applied, your not feeling badly. Why? Well it's not suppose to be a crap shoot. A good lender will discourage you from applying if your not ready. He will try to head your feet in the right direction, telling you exactly what you are lacking to get approve., He'll make suggestions, tell you what definitely works as a cure, what others have done and how they faired. If declined, he'll be able to tell you EXACTLY why. These are suppose to be business loans by a bank that you would hope understand the nature of business. Business loans require more documentation than an individual trying to buy a car. Business loans are based on sales and a specific time periods will be used to determine income. The business would than give them the figures based on the time frames the bank requested. Well the opposite happens here the lender is calculating our sells. We do not get a breakdown whether approved or not approved, of what figure they arrived at, what time frame they used, was it gross or net of their fees, if any sells were not calculated in, how many months were reviewed, and how many months were used to calculate our sales, is it a Jan to Dec 12 months, or is it 12 months back not using the current month, do you average out those months to account for the high's, low's, seasonal differences, that most businesses experience, there is a cap on these loans of $20,000 regardless if your sells warrant a larger amount based on the 8%, how much does a business need to make before you will approve and loan amount. Where are all the disclosures to explain all of this. The reason businesses aren't receptive to this is the way "WEB Bank" is handling it. I called explaining I wanted to pay off the my loan from Jan 28, so I could do another, and I needed to know that I would be approved. They told me they had no way to know until I paid off first loan. BAD lender not good lender if you can't answer that question. You are basing it on my sales, from set time period. You should have an app that uses the same criteria used to come up with an offer when we apply, except it is a calculator using the real information but doesn't set anything into motion on the banks side. However, now I know based on the latest up to date data I will get approved provided my loan balance is zero. This is BAD LENDER as it doesn't have the calculator in place and they are peddling a crap game. When businesses are trying to innovate and grow sales or just even maintain where they are....there "working capital" has to be for sure before they can begin to innovate. I ask what criteria would be used to consider the loan approval and was told 18 months than 12 months back for the sells from when you apply. Never did I here or see it that you had to make a certain amount. So even though I couldn't get a positive answer, I went back through my sales using April 2013 - Mar 2014. The first loan I did at end of Jan 2014. Even though assuming isn't good, the 12 month window they approved on, should of been Jan - Dec 2013 my regular fiscal year. Sales were slightly less but not significantly. So I felt confident I would have no problem re uping a loan. I paid the first one off in 90 days, my sales were remaining steady, had my account since 2007, only 90 days had past since the first approval. Everything was still in place that the first approval was given forward. So I devert monies from my B of A account which were needed to pay monthly expenses, and pay off my working capital. I tried to soon before the payment to pay off processed to apply for 2nd loan so I got a decline. I called and was told to wait a few days than try again. So I did, than applied, than again, and again to keep getting declined. When I called after much a do and demanding to speak to a supervisor, first everyone was eager to state declines could be based on consumer disputes, of which I have NEVER had even one. When I ask how they were using those to make a decison, their replies called out the BAD LENDER. The supervisor told me I was declined due to my sales. I ask her what period she used and she mumbled something about inconsistent sales and couldn't disclose any details. Than she went on to tell me this was only a pilot program and they were changing and revamping how it was handled nearly daily. REALLY a pilot program! PayPal isn't the one behind this but Web bank who pitched this to the owners of PayPal and sold the idea by telling them it would be using a set game plan. I wonder if the biggies at the top who agreed to this realize how it is being handled, and it's a pilot program and their changing the rules at will and uppsetting a lot of their clients. I don't believe they know what their doing, and I have to believe that some truth in lending laws are being side stepped. Aren't we suppose to be able to dispute payments. I felt mislead, by the information I received, and find this to be missing the human component for compassionate regard. Due diligence to not inflict harm doesn't seem to matter.either. This was and is inherently wrong to present a product that hasn't been thoroughly tested. to an unsuspecting audience. Given how I felt mislead and dupped with information that I recieved, than no one would verify, so I could know if they had made a mistake, I opted to use what is suppose to be in place is I tried to dispute the payment, and they wouldn't do it. Yet they have no problem any other time I called and wanted to dispute a payment. Both people I spoke to took on the roll they couldn't do that based on they didn't think I should and i needed to talk to working capital. I did never received an outcome that held up to the standards in place for ethical business protoccols, and why I want to dispute it. I told them it was not their place to determine who was right or wrong, that was for WCapital and I to hash out or a court of law. They were suppose to be supportive, and it was not their place to determine if I was justified, in my request. I bet if working capital gave me money and felt like I had gave misleading information to them, they would have not problen getting PayPal to pull that money out of my account. Shock given present days innovations that this got this far to PayPal clients. Are good lenders a thing of the past? Is customer service a thing of the past? Is this how class-action suits come about? Anyone out their at PayPal headqtrs paying attention or even care to give some of us that have posted are concerns a phone call so we can give mutual feed back?

Answer 1

I can attest to this information! The same thing happened to me. I paid off my capitol in 98 days to get a new one. I was declined!! I have no charge backs, no complaints, no disputes. I have been using paypal services for years. I was given ridiculous information from several reps. Finally, An empoyeemalibu4u wrote:
I received an email introducing PAYPAL Working Capital end of Jan 2014. It sounded to good to be true but figured I'd give it a try. I was pleasantly surprised when in short order I was approved and given an offer. What wasn't clear if you didn't take all offered the rest would not be sitting in a hold pattern for you to may use of at a later time. The next day when going into the working capital link all I found was my balance due and no offset for the loan leftovers. When I called to ask I was told if I didn't take all that was offered what I didn't was not excessible. I was told once I paid off the loan I could apply for another one. Initially, had no intention of paying off early, but did some brain storming realized I could save myself some serious overhead with a plan I wanted to implement. To do that though I needed to have "some working capital". Here's where this doesn't fly as a tool to assist businesses. Having worked in banks for many years, I have a solid sense of the approval protoccols for bank loans. I was in no position to pay the loan off early, however I would only be out those resource for a few days, as I would have a new "Working Capital" funded and this time I would take all that was offered. In banking there are set parameters for loan approvals. Lenders know what their criteria is and can and WILL tell you what they will need, to approve your loan. ie; time in business, amount of income required based on amount of loan you seek, and what they will need to verify your income. There is no hidden requirements you would not know about. The lender wants your business and would like to make you a loan. It is how banks make money. If you were declined a lender/loan officer (a good one) doesn't assume you'll never be able to meet the requirements to get approved. However you might not even put yourself through the whole process because you know you are falling short on some of the requirements. However, even though you got a decline before you even applied, your not feeling badly. Why? Well it's not suppose to be a crap shoot. A good lender will discourage you from applying if your not ready. He will try to head your feet in the right direction, telling you exactly what you are lacking to get approve., He'll make suggestions, tell you what definitely works as a cure, what others have done and how they faired. If declined, he'll be able to tell you EXACTLY why. These are suppose to be business loans by a bank that you would hope understand the nature of business. Business loans require more documentation than an individual trying to buy a car. Business loans are based on sales and a specific time periods will be used to determine income. The business would than give them the figures based on the time frames the bank requested. Well the opposite happens here the lender is calculating our sells. We do not get a breakdown whether approved or not approved, of what figure they arrived at, what time frame they used, was it gross or net of their fees, if any sells were not calculated in, how many months were reviewed, and how many months were used to calculate our sales, is it a Jan to Dec 12 months, or is it 12 months back not using the current month, do you average out those months to account for the high's, low's, seasonal differences, that most businesses experience, there is a cap on these loans of $20,000 regardless if your sells warrant a larger amount based on the 8%, how much does a business need to make before you will approve and loan amount. Where are all the disclosures to explain all of this. The reason businesses aren't receptive to this is the way "WEB Bank" is handling it. I called explaining I wanted to pay off the my loan from Jan 28, so I could do another, and I needed to know that I would be approved. They told me they had no way to know until I paid off first loan. BAD lender not good lender if you can't answer that question. You are basing it on my sales, from set time period. You should have an app that uses the same criteria used to come up with an offer when we apply, except it is a calculator using the real information but doesn't set anything into motion on the banks side. However, now I know based on the latest up to date data I will get approved provided my loan balance is zero. This is BAD LENDER as it doesn't have the calculator in place and they are peddling a crap game. When businesses are trying to innovate and grow sales or just even maintain where they are....there "working capital" has to be for sure before they can begin to innovate. I ask what criteria would be used to consider the loan approval and was told 18 months than 12 months back for the sells from when you apply. Never did I here or see it that you had to make a certain amount. So even though I couldn't get a positive answer, I went back through my sales using April 2013 - Mar 2014. The first loan I did at end of Jan 2014. Even though assuming isn't good, the 12 month window they approved on, should of been Jan - Dec 2013 my regular fiscal year. Sales were slightly less but not significantly. So I felt confident I would have no problem re uping a loan. I paid the first one off in 90 days, my sales were remaining steady, had my account since 2007, only 90 days had past since the first approval. Everything was still in place that the first approval was given forward. So I devert monies from my B of A account which were needed to pay monthly expenses, and pay off my working capital. I tried to soon before the payment to pay off processed to apply for 2nd loan so I got a decline. I called and was told to wait a few days than try again. So I did, than applied, than again, and again to keep getting declined. When I called after much a do and demanding to speak to a supervisor, first everyone was eager to state declines could be based on consumer disputes, of which I have NEVER had even one. When I ask how they were using those to make a decison, their replies called out the BAD LENDER. The supervisor told me I was declined due to my sales. I ask her what period she used and she mumbled something about inconsistent sales and couldn't disclose any details. Than she went on to tell me this was only a pilot program and they were changing and revamping how it was handled nearly daily. REALLY a pilot program! PayPal isn't the one behind this but Web bank who pitched this to the owners of PayPal and sold the idea by telling them it would be using a set game plan. I wonder if the biggies at the top who agreed to this realize how it is being handled, and it's a pilot program and their changing the rules at will and uppsetting a lot of their clients. I don't believe they know what their doing, and I have to believe that some truth in lending laws are being side stepped. Aren't we suppose to be able to dispute payments. I felt mislead, by the information I received, and find this to be missing the human component for compassionate regard. Due diligence to not inflict harm doesn't seem to matter.either. This was and is inherently wrong to present a product that hasn't been thoroughly tested. to an unsuspecting audience. Given how I felt mislead and dupped with information that I recieved, than no one would verify, so I could know if they had made a mistake, I opted to use what is suppose to be in place is I tried to dispute the payment, and they wouldn't do it. Yet they have no problem any other time I called and wanted to dispute a payment. Both people I spoke to took on the roll they couldn't do that based on they didn't think I should and i needed to talk to working capital. I did never received an outcome that held up to the standards in place for ethical business protoccols, and why I want to dispute it. I told them it was not their place to determine who was right or wrong, that was for WCapital and I to hash out or a court of law. They were suppose to be supportive, and it was not their place to determine if I was justified, in my request. I bet if working capital gave me money and felt like I had gave misleading information to them, they would have not problen getting PayPal to pull that money out of my account. Shock given present days innovations that this got this far to PayPal clients. Are good lenders a thing of the past? Is customer service a thing of the past? Is this how class-action suits come about? Anyone out their at PayPal headqtrs paying attention or even care to give some of us that have posted are concerns a phone call so we can give mutual feed back?
named "Hugh" was kind enough to try to assist me. Final result declined because of a formula in place that cannot be manually changed. I did everything correctly, it is absurd.