XP Install: OpenGL versus DirectX

Please, if anyone can give me advice on which version to install I'd greatly appreciate it.
My setup:
Windows XP
ATI Mobility Radeon 7000 32MB Graphics Card
Notebook Display
Java 1.4.1 SDK
Main focus is on large, fairly static models, so framerates are not a big concern. Memory management is.
I need to know which Java3d version (DirectX or OpenGL) to install. I've read so many mixed answers lately!
Thank you!
PS: I've been coding Java3D for a number of years now, always using the OpenGL version, but have heard that the newest release of the Java and Java3D SDKs may have brought the DirectX support to an equal, or higher, footing.

Hi bsuter,
Thanks for your response. In the past, have the
differences between D3D and OGL been primarily
frame-rate-wise?
I'm afraid I'm not really an expert on it, I only know from trial and error. From my limited experience most people seem to favour OpenGL, performance wise. I have an old laptop at work that I've installed j3d and that won't even work with DirectX but it does with OpenGL.
More importantly, I'm interested in keeping both
versions as you have been doing. Do you have any tips
on the best/cleanest way to do this? Do you have both
installed at the same time? Where do you specify which
one should be targeted/used by your Java3D programs?
I imagine you can only have one version copied into
the extensions folder at any given time.Again, I just keep an unextracted copy of both of the latest versions and test my software with both and see which it runs best on every time I change my hardware, I've never had both plug-ins running simultaniously. Your way sounds reasonable in theory but if one is going to run faster on your particular system then I'd imagine you're best off just sticking with that for the time being.
Hope this helps.
Tim.

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I have some experience in writing directx 7.0 in C++. I find that the IDirect3DDevice7 in directx7.0 does not support 256 colors but direct3ddevice in directx5.0 does.
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13.     Does the Javax provide the utility for 3D programming by hiding the 3D device or texture surface creation ?
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15.     Lastly, from my understanding, directx is a com api which can be used in every programming languages. Does it imply that with a directx sdk, I can write a directx application in C++, java, or vb ?
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I'm no expert in 3D graphics programming, but I have some experience. I'll try to answer some of your questions.
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3.     Can opengl work in every resolution 256 colors, 16,
32 bits?Yes.
4.     Does opengl work in every platform?OpenGL is available on many platforms. Look at GL4Java if you want to use OpenGL in Java, it's available on many platforms. Look at: http://www.jausoft.com/gl4java.html
5.     Can I write an opengl program in window platform
and run it in Linux without any modification or
compilation ?Yes, if you write it in Java. In C++ you will need to recompile the app.
6.     Does the opengl runtime different from platform to
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7.     If I deploy an opengl progam, do I need to deploy
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8.     Opengl is claimed to be open source. What does it
mean ? Can I modify the code of the opengl sdk or
runtime and re-complie it and make it my own version
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is special to a particular hardware eg. NVIDIA. Some
is not bounded to any hardware. What is the different
between them ? How can I choose from them ?If you have modern graphics card the driver includes support for OpenGL on MS Windows. For Linux you use Mesa I think. See GL4Java homepage for more info.
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12.     However I cannot find any directx code or
directive for importing the directx package in the
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13.     Does the Javax provide the utility for 3D
programming by hiding the 3D device or texture surface
creation ?Java3D is platform independent and hides things like the hardware, drivers etc.
14.     I find some code segment from MSDN which shows the
way to create a directdraw object in an applet. I
wonder what is the proper way to use directx or opengl
in java since my main goal is to create a directx
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api which can be used in every programming languages.
Does it imply that with a directx sdk, I can write a
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My recommendation is to go for Java and Java3D if you are inexperienced with 3D graphics programming. Use Java + OpenGL if you know about vertices, textures, transforms etc.

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This was my original posting:
I have recently bought a MSI GeForce FX 5900 XT VTD128. To my surprise I have exprerienced numerous crashes in games that use DirectX 8 or better. The games pauses and I get a blue Windows XP (retail version - 5.1.2600 - , without Service Pack 1) crash screen that says the game was stopped to prevent any damage to Windows and some things I should check (wich I did) and in the technical part:
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Games that use OpenGL or DirectX 7 or less seem to work fine. This was checked with Quake III and Severance: Blade of Darkness.
DirectX 9.0b tests on DirectDraw and Direct3D found no problems, plus all the files are OK.
Afterwards a friend who works repairing PCs, recommended a clean install with the latest drivers for the motherboard as well as the lastest 53.03 vga drivers (MSI version). All this to no avail; I get the same message.
I've also tried vga drivers 52.16 and 53.06 (Beta), as well as disabling Fast Writes in the motherboard BIOS.
A web search only lead me to some driver pages. MSI have no troubleshooting help about the matter, at least that I could find, neither in the manual nor the website.
I have tried using my old NVidia Vanta again and GTAIII works perfect.
Both cards use IRQ 19 and don't share it.
I've noticed that DirectX acknowledges different files to both VGAs. Vanta's principal controller file is nv4.dll whereas 5900's nv4_disp.dll. The small VDD files are nv4.sys and nv4_mini.sys respectively.
Also nv4_disp.dll has no digital signature while all the others do.
Is there any diagnostic utility I could use to better pinpoint the problem I'm having?
Thanks for reading this far.
After this cry for help I didn't want to wait for a star to fall so I kept on doing homework. I delved deeper into the forums and found in the mobos forum a thread with a reply that said that bios 7.40 for K7N2 delta-ILSR solved an incompatibility issue with Geforce FX 5900 and another with a way to clean the remains of uninstalled drivers.
I was not up to flashing the bios yet so I tried the vga in two other different PCs.
The first one had Win98 with a mobo M810MR with DIMM RAM. It worked awfully. It crashed when double clicking an icon, didn't run many games and even didn't pass the DirectX tests. That with 4X.XX drivers (I don't quite remember the version). With 53.03 (MSI version) I wasn't as unstable but still had many problems.
Another PC entered into the scene. One with WinXP and Linux, as well as a KT2V PRo Dual with DDR RAM. In WinXP still couldn't run any games or 3dMark. It even rebooted it a couple of times, just out of the blue. In Linux it worked fine but didn't try any 3D games (didn't have any). It was detected as a Generic GeForce FX though.
Before sending my vga to another region of the country (something I wasn't very prone to do in the least, as I had to pay for sending and retreiving it) so the vendor could try it and replace it (if he found it faulty).
THE ALMIGHTY SOLUTION: for those too eager to stand my babbling this is what worked.
I flashed the bios up to version 7.60 and uninstalled the drivers and used Driver Cleaner. It works without any problems now. I tried it in my other 'test' brand new WinXP install without using Driver Cleaner and it seems that flashing the bios was enough. Although I would recommend using it.
Well, that's all. I thought it could be useful to have all this in one piece.
Thanks to all that cared.

You guys didn't read the post fully SPAMMERS
He solved his problem by updating the BIOS to the latest version, he has the nVidia Chipset based motherboard and there was a known issue related to the FX series video cards. This is nForce specific.... period

GeForce FX 5900 XT, DirectX 8 & 9 games hang.

I have recently bought a MSI GeForce FX 5900 XT VTD128. To my surprise I have exprerienced numerous crashes in games that use DirectX 8 or better. The games pauses and I get a blue Windows XP (retail version - 5.1.2600 - , without Service Pack 1) crash screen that says the game was stopped to prevent any damage to Windows and some things I should check (wich I did) and in the technical part:
*** STOP: 0x0000008E (0xc0000005, 0xF7D83E2D, 0xBA2DC29C, 0x00000000)
*** nv4_mini.sys - Address F7D83E2D base at F7CD9000, DateStamp 3fb91de8
Those hexadecimal are not within the range of memory addresses the VGA card uses.
I get the error with Freedom Fighters, GTA Vice City, GTAIII, Crazy Taxi. The latter crashing much more than the former.
I tried ePSXe (the playstation emulator) using Pete's OpenGL 2 vga plugin, wich uses T&L and pixel shader and I had no problems.
Games that use OpenGL or DirectX 7 or less seem to work fine. This was checked with Quake III and Severance: Blade of Darkness.
DirectX 9.0b tests on DirectDraw and Direct3D found no problems, plus all the files are OK.
Afterwards a friend who works repairing PCs, recommended a clean install with the latest drivers for the motherboard as well as the lastest 53.03 vga drivers (MSI version). All this to no avail; I get the same message.
I've also tried vga drivers 52.16 and 53.06 (Beta), as well as disabling Fast Writes in the motherboard BIOS.
A web search only lead me to some driver pages. MSI have no troubleshooting help about the matter, at least that I could find, neither in the manual nor the website.
I have tried using my old NVidia Vanta again and GTAIII works perfect.
Both cards use IRQ 19 and don't share it.
I've noticed that DirectX acknowledges different files to both VGAs. Vanta's principal controller file is nv4.dll whereas 5900's nv4_disp.dll. The small VDD files are nv4.sys and nv4_mini.sys respectively.
Also nv4_disp.dll has no digital signature while all the others do.
Is there any diagnostic utility I could use to better pinpoint the problem I'm having?
Thanks for reading this far.

Sorry to hear about your problem m8, sounds wery strange!
Ive only exp. problems in "Beyond Good and Evil" and "Star Wars: KotOR", where the game suddently freeze's, but nowhere like your's does.
Hope someone got a solution to your problem!
neXuzDK

Why can't I install 3D API's?

I know this is not the first time somebody asks this question in this forum, but the solutions given so far didn't work for me.
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* Support for either OpenGL or DirectX as shown below.
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[http://java3d.j3d.org/installing.html]
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Hi guys sorry to bother you, and for such a long question.
I've just purchased a brand new MSI branded AMD radeon r7770 to replace my nvidia 8800gt graphics card which finally bit the dust last week.
Despite uninstalling the old nVidia drivers, trying the ones that came with the card and downloading and installing the very latest versions from both the AMD and MSI sites, I still cannot get directx to work. At first glance, the drivers look to be installed OK, (the Catalyst Control Center starts up etc) but none of my games run, and the desktop refresh is incredibly slow. KSP's crash log helpfully states that it cannot find the device driver. When I run Dxdiag.exe all the directx diagnostic tags are greyed out and the info box states that the card does not support directx.
The system is pretty ancient but should still be up to the task as it was a well speced gaming PC in its day:
Mboard: Asus P5K3 Deluxe (intel P35 chipset)
CPU: Intel core2duo Q6600 (quad-core)
mem: 4 gig Corsair ddr3 mem.
PSW: 600W
OS: Win XP pro SP3
I'm aware that this is an old PCI-E 1.0 board and the card is designed around PCI-E 3.0, but the computer boots up and starts Windows just fine. Both the Bios and Windows detect the R7770 correctly. (I'd have thought if this was an issue - it wouldn't go past POST at all and begin beeping like crazy!)
To muddy the waters still further, as a experiment, I installed an old radeon card for test (a crappy Sapphire hd 2600 pro PCI-E version), which is about the same age as the rest of the system.
I couldn't find the drivers disk initally, so downloaded the relevant ones from Sapphire and AMD. Got EXACTLY the same problem as above: it looks as the drivers have installed but no Directx support (which is daft as I used to use that card games until I could afford to replace it with the 8800)
I tried everything I could think of for hours (including disabling driver signing security, stopping anti-virus software, trolling through the windows/ inf, System32 and System dirctories to weed out anything ATI - you name it) then miraculously found the old drivers for the HD 2600. Installed them with no probem at all - everything worked just as it should!
So, I looks to me like the XP drivers on the web are now garbage. Anyone else have similar problems or know of a workaround?
I'm not exactly rich so can't afford Win 7 or the dreaded Win 8 (which I loath) or a new PC, which is why i'm soldering on with this dinosaur!
The only thing I haven't done is splat Windows and do a clean install, do you think that'll help? If so why did the old radeon drivers work (win has been cleanly re-installed many a time since I last used that card, so there was no legacy junk lurcking in the windows diectory or it's registry)
Do you think I'd have better luck with NVidia? If so could you kindly recommend an alternative from them? I know an R7770 is a bit OTT for such an old system, but they are dirt cheap at the mo and not much more expensive than much less powerful cards.
Anyone have any thoughts about UBuntu? If it is a driver issue or there is no workaround, I may need to consider this route. Trouble is none of my legacy games will run on Linux and i'm not sure virtualization is available for my mboard.
Anyways, thanks for your time and for any suggestions you might make
Regards
Mike

Hi Flex, thanks for the quick reply and for the advice.
In the end i got it going by changing the boot.ini settings.
They were initially set with the /3GB /fastdetect switch to force the WinXp kernal to run in 1GB, and not take up 2GB as is it's default.
It was set that way to stop a 32bit game (KSP) crashing every 10 minutes or so, through lack of addressable memory.
All I did was simply set the boot.ini back to its default and directx sprung to life. I reset it back to 3GB to make sure it wasn't a fluke and as soon as I did, it killed directx again.
Maybe its a driver issue afterall - probably lack of proper XP support by AMD (This dosen't happen with the old- - 2008 vintage - version 4 ATI radeon drivers.) or perhaps its because the card has twice the memory over my old cards and therefore needs to access a higher portion of I/O allocation than is available in 32bit WinXP.
Its all a bit ironic really as i'm finding the R7770 runs like crap under dirx9 - i'm getting about 30% the frame rate of my old Nvida 8800GT and, as I can't use the 3GB switch anymore, it crashes every 5 mins or whenever I play any resource intensive game.
As the crashes are caused by lack of available address spaces under 32 bit systems, I've bitten the bullet and got 64bit Ubuntu. Got this working in the wee small hours last night - including the R7770 using the AMD catalyst drivers for Linux. Hopefully that will sort things out (and gimmie an excuse to learn a proper OS!)
Wish me luck i can see another "steep learning curve" on the horizon!
Cheers
Mike

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