XServe-RAID Offsite Backup

I was hoping to use the left controller of the RAID to backup all my clients using TimeMachine and then have the right controller mirror that on the fly (so that would be RAID 50). I was then hoping that I could swap out ALL the right controller drives to store them off-site each week.
Would that plan be possible do you think? OK to take out all drives from the right controller at the same time, leaving the left RAID5 running on its own until the new set is put into the right controller to rebuild the RAID50 again? Make sense? Possible?
Thank you, Grant

However there just doesn’t appear to be any failsafe easy solution to backup the XServe RAID for offsite storage is there. Is is quite unfortunate and surprising and I would have thought there would have been a methodology worked out for this somewhere. But from what I am hearing, there isn’t.
Xserve RAID is a storage array box, and (somewhat confusingly) it's exceedingly uncommon to back up "just a storage box." I do know a few storage controllers that offer replication capabilities, but I'm extremely suspect that the tools work reliably. Storage controllers don't have all of the context on the processing that they need to perform reliable data replication; to ensure consistency.
It's common to perform remote replication via network and tools are available to do that. You almost certainly will end up with local customizations here, too.
The tools are specific to particular application storage involved; there's no Server Time Machine here, as you need use (for instance) mysqldump or you need MySQL replication for a MySQL database, and a different tool for another database. Or you need quiesce the databases.
Which leads various folks to punt on the process, to shut down down the server, and block-clone the disks involved. To quiesce the server. That too can likely be automated, with some scripting and a controlling host.
As for the remote storage (when not using a network), getting the data off-site then depends on what removable media is available. Ultrium tape has decent capacity and good physical reliability and speed, but tends to have poor support on Mac OS X Server, and Ultrium drives and loaders tend to be expensive. Removable disks do reasonably well here, and various options are available, but they're less physically reliable than tapes. For tens of gigabytes, flash media is a potential option, though it's not the speediest of storage.
Networking can be an option here for remote storage, depending on how small your delta (churn) and how good your compression is and how big your network pipe might be; your network pipe has to be big enough to manage your maximum available window.
If you're looking for turn-key, there are commercial products which claim to deal with this stuff. And unless they're using mysqldump or such for databases, I'm professionally skeptical at the integrity of the archives they create on an active server. (I've watched the storage and data archive folks claim to have solved this for thirty years now. They can mostly solve it, too, for some values of mostly.)
[Here is a MySQL mysqldump|http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/1336] procedure, which can serve to show how to do daily, weekly or monthly archives, and how to run mysqldump tool from bash.
(I am aware of one operating system that can mirror active disk data across a data link and across hosts and across storage controllers and can operate with fully distributed shared write, and that OS obviously and specifically targets high-uptime environments, but that OS environment is not cheap. And it's not Mac OS X Server. And even that environment can't correctly capture an active database for an offline archive; even there, you need to quiesce the database or use database-specific tools.)
It'd be feasible for somebody to create a (big, hairy) tool to catch all the usual suspects on a Mac OS X Server box. But then you have to maintain it across all of the slightly-weird installations, and you also have to deal with restorations. (I'd love to write a generic one of these; this would necessarily be a superset of Time Machine. This is a big and complex project, and one that would require extensive testing.)
Server boxes are not client boxes. Servers require real work and real thought and real configuration. And as production requirements increase, they also tend to require some knowledge of the shell and of scripting and writing (or acquiring) some site-management tools.

Similar Messages

  • Thoughts on xServe RAID replacement?

    Hi everyone. Thanks for reading.
    I am replacing an aging xServe RAID in a clients network. They currently use the xServe RAID as storage for their mobile home folders, company file shares (RAID 5 w/ 500GB storage), mailstore (RAID 1 w/ 250GB storage) and backup for other servers (RAID 5 w/ 3TB storage). This is hooked up directly via FC to an Intel xServe running 10.6.8 server. They would like to replace this simply because they need more storage for files, and the age (about 7 to 8 years old).
    I would still use the existing xServe RAID as backup storage, however, we are looking for replacements. Right now I am pricing out a Promise VTrak E-Class with 8TB of storage (most likely will go RAID 10, so 4TB of useable storage) and a new 4Gbs quad fiber card. Total for both is around $8500. I am not convinced however they need that fast of storage for their use. They can get a Drobo 800i (bear with me here) with 8TB of storage (if dual drive redundancy is on the useable is around 3.6TB)  and a dual 1GB PCI ethernet card for around $4300. In the past, we have only used the DroboPro, and think that particular unit is too slow for anything but archival data or backup. We have yet to use the 800i (nor the 1200i).
    What does everyone think? Or is there another product we should also be looking at? Network is 1GB for around 40 users. Mobile accounts just sync at logoff, and useage of file shares is probably light to medium.
    Thanks again.

    The Promise range is what Apple originally recommended as a replacement for the discontinued XServe RAID. However you could also look at Active Storage, see http://getactivestorage.com/
    They even have a 1U rackmount box that can act as an XSan metadata controller (instead of an XServe).

  • Suggested methods for full backup of XServe RAID data

    I know this is only peripherally related to the discussion topic, but since every other suggestion posted here is followed by the disclaimer that you should make a full backup of your data before proceeding with any major operations on your RAID arrays, I'd like to know what more experienced admins do in order to create a full backup for reasonably fast recovery in case of substantial data loss during maintenance/repair.
    Our current "backup" availability is incremental optical disc archival (our data is mostly "write-once"), but this isn't entirely practical for recovery since it's over a terabyte of data. Since the connected server has a free hot-swappable SCSI drive bay as well as an interface for external SCSI devices, not to mention the fiber channel and ethernet interfaces, the options that I'd consider in order would be:
    1. A handful of 150-500 Gb SCSI hard drives, rotated out of the hot-swappable bay
    2. An external tape drive attached to the SCI interface (with appropriate tape size, maybe the LTO-2 with 200Gb native capacity?)
    3. Some other external SCSI storage device
    4. Larger optical disc archival (I hear there are technologies arriving in the near future)
    5. Network-based option; remote seems impractical due to sheer size, but perhaps local?
    The idea is to make a full backup (long-term solutions are superior of course) of 1-2 Tb of data on the XServe RAID before attempting major surgery. Suggestions for common, accepted, tested, efficient methods for accomplishing this would be greatly appreciated. I apologize if this thread isn't on-topic enough for some of you.
    -Brian

    Brian,
    Tape IMO is kinda yucky (to steal a term from your average 3 year old). It's fairly slow to back up to, it's very slow to restore, and it's actually not that reliable by itself (I worked with a large enterprise customer who said their backups were successful about 70% of the time (!!!)).
    That said, tape has the advantage that you can offsite it and archive it very cheaply, and the media are fairly cheap, so you can make lots of backups, so if one fails, you probably can restore the data from another tape.
    Disks are more expensive initially, but end up being pretty reliable, and you get a lot more flexibility (plus, they're fast).
    An emerging "best of both worlds" backup strategy is what's called disk to disk to tape, where you typically back up to another large "disk," for example a second Xserve RAID. Data is then backed up from the second disk to tape, which is taken offsite... thus tape is used for what it's best at (offsite archival). Restore can be from disk in most cases, which is 10-20x faster than restoring from tape. People use software packages like Netvault's Bakbone or Atempo's Time Navigator, which can handle the whole process, and it works quite well. The backup disks (e.g. the RAID) can be onsite, or can be at a backup site a couple KM away, attached via optical (this is preferable, for DR reasons).
    For cases where a second Xserve RAID is prohibitively expensive, cheaper (and slower) RAID 5 enclosures like Wiebetech's RAIDtech can provide a large (say, 1.6 TB) RAID 5 volume, accessible over FW800 or SATA (not sure if they have a SATA-based one yet).

  • Special RAID 1 with offsite backup?

    In order to ditch tape backups, here's what we're trying to accomplish but am a bit confused on how to do it most easily: I want to set up drives 1 and 2 for onsite data redundancy, and use drive 3 with a pair of harddrive trays for offsite backup. (one always in bay 3, the other always offsite, with a weekly switch back and forth taking place.)
    Would this be the appropriate way to accomplish this?
    1. set up xserve drive bays 1 and 2 as mirrors. (raid 1 - this part I can do just fine)
    2. use a drive cloning program to create a snapshot of drive 1 into drive 3, and then take drive 3 out and take it offsite, and then every week just redo the cloning process?

    That will work. Just remember to unmount drive3 before removing it.
    I do something like this on a daily basis. I run my root drive as just a drive. In the morning after I've checked logs I clone it to the drive in the middle bay and the drive in the right bay. I send the right drive offsite. In the evening, after the root drive has had it's important changes I clone it to the other drives again. BTW, I do these clones while the machine is being used.
    A RAID 1, while giving you up to the millisecond backup, also will have up to the millisecond mistakes, that may need to be restored from backup. Cloning them like I do does mean the clone is behind, but I have the version before the mistake was made. It's individual choice.
    Roger

  • RAID for offsite backup?

    Hello! My question is not specific to Xserve, but the OSX software RAID provided by Disk Utility. I posted on the 10.6.2 installation and setup board, but was recommended that I post here instead. So here goes...
    I'm planning to use 2 external drives with Time Machine. But I only plan to keep one of them always connected to my iMac and the other stored somewhere safe (connecting periodically to sync up). The reasons being the usual ones for an offsite backup. And need I say that one of my computers has also been the unfortunate victim of a lightning strike? Ouch!
    So instead of having to change the target drive in TM every time, I was hoping to set up a mirrored RAID using Disk Utilities. But I would only keep one drive connected at all times, while the other would be connected periodically to sync up.
    Is this doable? Would the second drive automatically mirror the first one when I connect it? Would I keep getting warnings/errors from OSX that the other drive isn't connected? Appreciate your opinions on this. Thanks!

    Don't go there. Seriously.
    Breaking a mirror should never be considered part of your normal workflow, but that's precisely what you're proposing here - periodically breaking the mirror to take one of the copies off-site.
    It might not bring you seven years' bad luck but it is asking for trouble.
    IMHO your best bet is to periodically clone the Time Machine disk to the second disk using Disk Utility.app, asr or any of the numerous disk clone apps out there (Carbon Copy Cloner, Synchronize Pro, etc.).
    In this way Time Machine can continually backup to its own disk and you take periodic snapshots of that disk on your own schedule. Don't try to get Time Machine to backup to two disks (either alternately or via mirroring).

  • Informal poll: breaking raid as offsite backup

    this isn't specific to os x server, but i was wondering what other people think about breaking a mirrored raid (external or internal hot swap) and swapping in a spare as a means of providing easy offsite backup.
    thanks for any feedback. i'll post my thoughts in a bit but am looking for others' take on this.

    The following discussion has a lot of good information you may want to read:
    http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6266460
    I've seen this method mess things up a few times, so I wouldn't rely on it. RAID1 was intended for redundancy in case of drive failures, not for backups. There are several things that can go wrong when you break the mirror, especially if the system is live.

  • Xserve raid shows power state UPS backup

    How do I change the power state from UPS backup to on like the rest of the xserve raids we have? None of the xserve raids we have ever used a UPS so I do not know why this one is showing power state UPS Backup under the information tab of the GUI.
    This is annoying since it's causing the circle to be yellow instead of green. Any ideas or suggestions?

    Never seen this. Does it help if you temporally disconnect the power cable?

  • Easiest solution for adding Fibre Channel Tape Backup to Xserve RAID setup

    I'm interested in getting a Fibre Channel LTO-3 tape library such as the Exabyte 221L for my Xserve RAID/Xserve G5 setup. I realize there are SCSI LTO-3 solutions that are less expensive than FC, but I'd prefer not to have to add a SCSI card to my Xserve, mainly because I'd have to pull the video card and run the server headless (horrors!). However, I understand that I must get a Fibre Channel switch to allow the LTO library, the Xserve, and the Xserve RAID to communicate... you can't just daisy chain FC devices. The least expensive switch I can find is the new QLogtic SANbox 3050 for about $1800. For my situation, in which these will be the only FC devices I'll probably ever use, does this switch sound appropriate? The specs on the switch can be found here: http://www.qlogic.com/products/sanbox/sanbox_3050.asp.
    Xserve RAID & Xserve G5   Mac OS X (10.4.5)  

    For simple environments like yours, it's trivially easy. You must plug everything in, and you're good to go... as simple as a network switch.
    Now if you start adding multiple hosts (i.e. plug in a second Xserve or G5), you need to be careful, because in the default configuration everything is "wide open," so every device can see every storage LUN. This would actually be problematic, as systems could (actually, would) corrupt each other's storage. When you get to this point, you'll need to look at either zoning the ports on the switch, or using LUN masking on the Xserve RAID to allocate specific pieces of storage to specific hosts.
    But for now, just get the switch, plug everything in, and you're off.
    BTW if you mark "answered" for me, versus for the thread overall, it helps me out a bit in this forum ranking system, whatever it is.
    Cheers.

  • Switching to Xserver/Xserve RAID

    Hi boys and girls...
    I was looking for a little assistance in switching over to Xserve. Let me give you some background info first.
    Were a small studio in London, with only 11 people in-house and the majority working externally whether free-lance, from home or from another country etc. Were mostly Mac based, though 4 machines are those little beige pc things all running XP 2002. At the minute its 1 G5 and a collection of G4 tower's and G4 power book's, G4 cube's and so on. Were all connected to a G4 server running Mac OS X Server 10.2.8 with a very small dual 120GB HD raid thing running Retrospect.
    Our problem is, this system was set up some time ago and were starting to outgrow it.
    What were looking for is a way to backup all of our current work and archive all of our old work. Most users like to work directly off the server as theres so much file sharing between the macs and pc's, directly updating files so there isnt any duplication etc.
    First question, is it possible (and a good/bad idea ?) to have 10-15 users working directly from a Mac server, that stores the archived work for users to reference and also current work which is backed up to tape and duplicated (as we currently have) to another HD?
    Secondly, Is the ideal way to be running things? Is there a more efficent way?
    Finally, what kind of spec should we be looking at? There's such a huge difference between servers, while were willing to invest, we dont want to go crazy (maybe a little) on costs.
    I look forward to your responses and thank you in advance
    Marcus

    There are certainly some drawbacks with your current setup that mean you should make some changes.
    In general, there's nothing wrong with working with files directly off the server, however, 10.2.8 has some issues with multiple users accessing the same files at the same time, so you should look to move to 10.4 ASAP to address that issue, regardless of any other changes you make.
    I am assuming that the remote users don't work this way - uploading/download files as appropriate - it would be painful to work off the server remotely.
    The only real disadvantage with working with files directly off the server is that if a file is changed erroneously and saved, there's no easy backup.
    If the file was copied to the local drive and saved, it's easy to roll back to the previous version by re-copying it from the server, but if that change is saved directly to the server the only rollback involves pulling out Retrospect.
    The other change that would make a difference is installing a gigabit switch and connecting the server to it. Even if all the host systems don't have gigabit ethernet, the extra bandwidth to the server will definitely help.
    As for a new server, 10-15 file sharing users are not likely to stress the server, do you don't need a top-of-the-line configuration.
    You should first decide how much disk space you need. With 500GB drives, the XServe can handle up to 1.5TB on its own, without any additional XServe RAID. However, you might want to consider RAID (using RAID you're limited to 1TB of RAID 5 storage, or 500GB of mirrored storage in the box).
    In addition to your current data usage, consider using an online disk backup where multiple copies of the data is stored on the server itself before (or in addition to) backing up to tape.
    While tapes offer several long-term archive advantages, they really don't work so well for quick restores of a file or two. Having a snapshot of the last couple of days data online makes it trivial to step back a day or so without having to resort to tapes. This may mean, though, that your 100GB of data requires 200 or 300GB of disk space.
    If you do decide than an XServe RAID is the right solution, consider getting it right-sized from the get-go rather than buying it small (e.g. 4 drives) and adding later. While it can be done, adding drives to an existing array is a PITA.
    If you do opt for an XServe RAID, and you don't currently have any rack-mounted equipment, consider using a PowerMac G5 as your server rather than an XServe. While similar in terms of performance, the PowerMac can work out cheaper depending on configuration.

  • Can I move Array from one Xserve RAID to another and keep the data

    I'd like to move a set of disk with an existing Array from one Xserve RAID to another. Can I simply shutdown both Xserve RAIDs and move the disk over, assuming I put the disk back in the same order?

    Yes, you should be able to do this.
    BE SURE YOU HAVE A BACKUP FIRST.

  • Xserve RAID lost RAID 5 array on right/bottom controller

    I cleanly shut down an Xserve G5 with an Xserve RAID attached and then powered off the Xserve RAID this morning. I replaced a failing memory module in the Xserve and moved the rack 6". I then powered on the Xserve RAID, waited for a couple minutes until it was fully booted, and then booted the Xserve. When it came up, my RAID 50 volume failed to mount. Upon further investigation, it appears that the RAID 5 array on the right hand disks is "gone". In RAID Admin (Disks and Drives tab), the left side array is visible, but all disks on the right side list status as "OK" and Type: as "Spare".
    Configuration: Xserve RAID with 14 250 GB disks. Each side was configured with 6 disks in a RAID 5 array and one spare. These were striped using Software RAID on the Xserve into RAID 50 and mounted as a single volume. The RAID firmware is currently 1.5 and the Xserve is running OS X Server 10.4.3.
    To summarize today's activities: under Apple's guidance (as this entire system is covered under a Premium Support contract), I swapped the (bottom) controller for the right side, updated firmware (from v1.3/1.20a to 1.5/1.50), multiple resets of both controllers, repeated forced firmware updates, etc.
    Also, I swapped the left set of disks for the right set, and the array from the left set now shows up on the right side, and the missing array from the right is still missing with the disks on the left side. I replaced the disks to their original positions with the same results.
    RAID Admin's Utility "Recognize Array" will not perform any operations on the rigth side disks and Apple tells me that there's nothing further that I can do with it.
    None of this has solved the problem or substantially changed the issue, and the disks on the right side are still missing their associated array. Apple is unable/unwilling to offer any further help except to refer me to 3rd party data recovery services.
    Does anyone have any suggestion at all that might possibly recover the missing array? Is anyone aware of any tools that I might use to recreate the RAID 5 array on the right controller? I was hoping that there might exist some low-level tools with which the disks could be recreated into an array by hand? Are there any commercial products that would work on this? Any other ideas?
    Many thanks for any suggestions.
    - Martin
    Xserve RAID (14 250GB disks) on Xserve G5   Mac OS X (10.4.3)  

    Not sure why you swapped the controllers back and forth
    William, I don't think I was clear on this. I swapped the controller with a new controller that I had in a spare parts kit. This was at Apple's request.
    really, RAID is not a backup...
    I'm well aware, but despite my incessant warnings, users will become lulled in to a false sense of security when something "just works" for a very long time. This array wasn't intended to store valuable data that couldn't be lost, but...
    It may be possible for Apple to re-create the RAID set, did you ask AppleCare about the possibility?
    Apple has told me more than once that there's nothing else that they can do for me...and yet I keep calling back.
    I was surprised that this array was lost when there were absolutely no prior signs of a problem and the system was merely shutdown and restarted cleanly. I'm more surprised and quite disappointed to learn that Apple will do nothing else for me (under a Premium Support contract) to attempt to repair a damaged array. When I asked questions about where the RAID information is stored, I received the answers: "I can't tell you that" and "Apple doesn't release that information". I did not get the feeling that they were working with me, but rather holding my hand while they walked me through published documentation.
    I expected that there would be utilities (analagous to filesystem repair utilities) such as RAID Admin's "Recognize Array" that could help repair and recover damaged array data. I think that the lesson that I've leanred today is that I was naive to have expected such a thing without actually having investigated it ahead of time.
    Anyway, thanks for your input, William.

  • Looking for some ideas for setting up and xServe RAID

    Everyone,
    Here is what I would to do. I have a new xServe and 7TB RAID. I would like to set all of my end users up with Portable Home Directories. They all have laptops and I would like to use their PHD as my backup source. I would set them to sync in the background a couple of times per day and then write to tape at night.I have about 60 end users. I would also like to use the same xServe and RAID as my Kerio mail server and mail store. What I am looking for is some ideas of how to go about setting up the RAID. I was orginially thinking of setting up as one big RAID 5 using all 14 drives. What I would like to know is what is the number of drives that would need to fail that would render the RAID unrebuildable? I am now thinking about splitting the RAID into two 7 drives in RAID set up as RAID 1+0.
    I am not sure if I phrased a lot of this currently, but here is quick recap of what I would like to know. What would be the best way to set up a 7TB RAID to store PHD and my Kerio mail store that provides me the most redudant and fastest acccess.
    Thanks in advance.
    Sincerely,
    Daniel Krajc

    Daniel,
    I'd suggest a 6 disk RAID 5 plus a hot spare for each side. It will give you about 2.4 TB capacity per side (4.8 total), and it can tolerate 2 drive failures per side without losing data, provided there is sufficient time between failures for the RAID set to automatically rebuild on the hot spare. This window is 8-12 hours.
    Note with Xserve RAID the two sides are totally independent in the data path -- it will look like 2 separate LUNs. If you want to combine these at the host level, as RAID 0 or RAID 1 to look like a single volume, you can. But the Xserve RAID will not combine them itself... the RAID controllers are independent... it might as well be two separate RAID volumes in the same chassis.
    I assume you'll plug this into an Xserve that is serving as an Open Directory server and a file server?

  • How to connect multiple Xserve Raid for Best Performance

    I like to get an idea how to connect multiple Xserve Raid to get the best performance for FCP to do multiple stream HD.

    Again, for storage (and retrieval), FireWire 400 should be fast enough. If you are encoding video directly to the external drive, then FireWire 800 would probably be beneficial. But as long as the processing of the video is taking place on the fast internal SATA drive, and then you are storing files on the external drive, FireWire 400 should be fine.
    Instead of speculating about whether it will work well or not, you need to set it up and try your typical work flow. That is the only way you will know for sure if performance is acceptable or not.
    For Time Machine, you should use a single 1.5TB drive. It is likely that by the time your backup needs comes close to exceeding that space, you will be able to buy a 3TB (or larger) single drive for the same cost. Also, I would not trust a RAID where the interaction between the two drives is through two USB cables and a hub. If your primary storage drive fails, you need your backup to be something that is simple and reliable.
    Oh, and there should be no problem with the adapter, if you already have it and it works.
    Edit: If those two external drives came formatted for Windows, make sure you have use Disk Utility Partition tab to repartition and reformat the drive. When you select the drive in the Disk Utility sidebar, at the bottom of the screen +Partition Map Scheme+ should say *GUID Partition Table*. When you select the volume under the drive in the sidebar, Format should say *Mac OS Extended (Journaled)*.

  • Xserve Raid and Windows Machines

    Hi All,
    I need some help, first and foremost I am not familiar with Xserve Raid units. We have one in a remote office that is connected to all our macs via Fiber. I need to connect a windows box with a fiber card to this SAN also to backup the SAN. How do I go about mounting the volume within windows and what software do I need to connect?
    Thanks,
    Greg

    Are the computers using the RAID as directly attached storage or are they using XSAN (or another product) to access the storage as a SAN?
    If they are using XSAN then I'm afraid you're out of luck as we there is no Windows client for XSAN. If they are using a different SAN product then perhaps you'll have more luck with finding a windows client.
    HTH,
    =Tod

  • Xserve raid or other raid

    Hello everyone. I'm looking to buy some type of raid system but I dot know if it shoul be an Xserve raid or another one from a place like other world computing. I need my raid to be able to do heavy video editing with video quality at blueray, and it has to act as a scratch disk. The thing I like about the Xserve raid is that it is expandable and runs through fiber. I need to be able totransfer large files fast. If I were to invest in a different raid I might be stuck with FireWire 800, or esata but I don't know if esata works on my Xserve. I know the xraid is discontinued and uses para drives, but is it still worth it.

    I found one off the website gainsaver.com for about 400. Thats not including the drives. At first i wont need much space. I would start slow maybe with 2 500gb or 2 250gb something like that. Slowly ill grow, so i dont have to worry about spending a bunch on the top drives. I will be using it for time machine backup of my server, and as a scratch disk for my editing. When i do edit, i need to be able to at least transfer 50mb a second to it because i edit in blue ray quality video. I also have a fibre channel card in my xserve already so i would only have to buy the two wires. One of the things that also pushed me to consider it is that in my school, we have a video editing suite. In that suite there are a bunch of xserves and 2 xraids. They are used as scratch disks for 25 computers that all edit video at the same time. In the school we work with SD so its easier on the transfer but its still intense. Thats why i was pushed to consider the xraid, and especially coming from apple, who makes products that last years more than they should. It doesnt seem like a bad idea. What do you think

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