24p & DVCPro HD

Can I correctly assume that iMovie won't edit in 24p or the DVCPro flavor of HD?
Cheers
Cookie Monster
BTW why is it impossible to easily find the tech specs of iMovie on the Apple web site????

yepp, iMovie is meant to work with firewire-connected mini-dv camcorders... no 24, no p, no pro...
tech specs: somewhere.. but, iM is a consumer product, don't overwhelm the amateur with info .... ;-)))

Similar Messages

Cinema Tools doesn't recognize pulldown cadence on 24p DVCPRO 50

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can give me a couple suggestions on this...
I've been capturing 24p material for a documentary from different sources and with different pulldown cadences: DV @ 24p and 24p Advanced, and DVCPRO 50 @ 24p.
The extra frames from the two DV types get removed properly, but not from the DVCPRO 50. I take a clip into Cinema Tools and hit 'Rev Telecine..' (Automated so no options to choose from) and it gives me a 23.98 clip with the what should be the C frame interlaced. (A B C/D D)
It looks like CT is removing 2:3:3:2 'advanced' pulldown and not the normal 2:3:2:3, like it's reading the metadata in the clip wrong. Does anyone know a way to manually set the type of pulldown--either in Cinema Tools or within the metadata of the clip itself?
Thanks in advance,
Will
Dual 2.7 GHz G5, 4.5 GB RAM Mac OS X (10.4.2) FCP 5.03, Cinema Tools 3.03

I didn't know therre was an Automated way either until working on this project, and maybe it's a new setting in Cinema Tools 3. The manual says that CT will recognize the pulldown on the clip automatically when it was shot in a 24p video camera, that this information gets embedded in the clip. The dialog box it gives you for the automatic reverse telecine has no options at all, and all my clips started on an A frame for the possibility of doing all as a batch.
I may have found what happened, (although not how to fix it). My capture setting had Remove Advanced Pulldown checked, and the tapes were recorded with regular pulldown. In my experience with DV footage this has never mattered, it would remove it if it could and if not leave the clip alone.
It looks like there's a bug somewhere in the DVCPRO 50 capture process--that the clip is has the 24p Advanced markers embedded even though it is regular 24p, and so Cinema Tools treats it improperly and removes the wrong frames:
24p Advanced (2:3:3:2) A B B/C C D 29.97 Footage
24p (2:3:2:3) A B C/B C/D D
I I 0 I I (CT removing 2:3:3:2 Pulldown)
24p Advanced A B C D
24p *my result* A B C/D D 23.98 Footage
Has anyone else encountered this bug? Any work arounds known?
Thanks,
Will

DVCPRO HD Varicam capture of 720/24p (not 23.978)

Hi,
I was hoping someone could help me, im hiring in a AJHD-1400 deck to digitise some footage shot on the AJ-HDC27 Varicam. It was shot at 720/24p at 60hz meaning that the frame rate is true 24fps not 23.978fps.
I had limited access to one a while back but when trying to figure it out I was only about to capture out HD-SDI into a Kona 23.978 project, the Kona presets didnt have 720/24p.
The final cut pro does have a 720/24p DVCPRO HD but i couldnt get the deck to playout via firewire to capture it, not even sure if the frame convertor option works with this.
I know i cant get stuff into the Kona 23.978 project and can convert the off-speed footage this way but I would want to keep it at 24fps if at all possible otherwise the sound guys will have to restamp the audio I guess.
Any people done this or know how I would go about this I would love to hear from you
Running FCP 6.0.3 with Kona Lhe card
Best Regards,
Ian Grey

It was shot at 720/24p at 60hz meaning that the frame rate is true 24fps not 23.978fps.
Sorry, but you are mistaken. That camera does not shoot 24fps straight...nor does it record 24fps straight with pulldown. That camera only shoots 60fps...at 59.94. And then the 24p setting flags the footage as 23.98...so when you capture it with FCP it removes the pulldown to get you to 23.98.
I was only about to capture out HD-SDI into a Kona 23.978 project, the Kona presets didnt have 720/24p.
IMHO this is the best way to capture it into FCP...via a capture card as HD SDI. If you capture via firewire your video is off-sync from audio...audio leading by 2-3 frames typically. Plus if you shot 60fps meaning to slow it down later, the Kona captures it so it will properly do this, while with firewire you might get the error "this footage is not 59.94 fps" when it clearly is. And yes, there is a Kona preset for 720p24. It is called "AJA KONA 720p 23.98 DVCPRO HD Varicam." Again, that camera DOES NOT shoot straight 24fps. The only cameras that do, to my knowledge, are HDCAM and HDCAM SR...the F900 and F950 by Sony.
I would want to keep it at 24fps if at all possible otherwise the sound guys will have to restamp the audio I guess.
Audio was recorded at 24fps straight? Should be 23.98...although audio doesn't have a frame rate. Not sure what settings they set to make it match with video.
Shane

Codec missing: DVCPRO HD 720p60

My machine has been a bit buggy lately so I reinstalled the OS and FCP studio 1, ran software update till nothing shows up. Now I have imported some P2 shot at DVCPRO HD 720p23.98 and when I attempt to load a sequence preset I get an error that -
"Video Compressor DVCPRO HD 720p60 was not found. Please check that the hardware is present and enabled for this compressor. Setting the video compressor to Animation."
What am I missing, not doing or doing that is preventing me from using this codec?
Thanks, Sam

There's no 24p DVCPRO HD codec. The 720p60 codec is used for 24p media. It doesn't change the media to 60p, it's just the name of the codec. It's a little confusing, but it works. My suggestion would be a full uninstall of FCS using FCS Remover and reinstall.

HD to PAL

I have a FCP file that is 720 24p DVCPRO HD. I need to make a PAL DVD. I realize that HD is neither PAL nor NTSC, so you wouldn't need a standards conversion. But rather than sending it out for downconversion, can you just output it to PAL specs? Or could you just also output it in it's current state to compressor to make a PAL MPEG2? Also, if there are titles in there, I'm guessing they might fall off the title-safe area in PAL where they worked in NTSC. I would then want to work from a PAL QT file before going to MPEG2 to adjust the subs-- unless somebody has a better way. Do you?
Thanks,
Alex

I've been having similar problems, and it appears as if us in PAL world seem to get hit harder with this, leading me to think that the problem is in the Upper Field Dominance of HD being sloppily converted to Lower Field Dominance of PAL DVD. Those in NTSC world start in upper and finish in upper field dominance.
For the record, I'm using HDV 1080i 50 footage from our Z5's recording to flash card, ingested using Log and Transfer (with the Sony memory unit plug for FCP installed).
Many people have put forward their suggestions for HD to DVD workflow. Almost all of them are from the US and don't have to worry about moving from one format to another with different field dominance. No one has been able to tell me where the change takes place... they just know it happens somehow. If you are going from FCP to Compressor to DVD SP, I think DVD SP is changing the dominance as it preps for PAL DVD. I don't know how hard the conversion is, but I don't like the idea of DVD SP doing it.
I tried changing Compressor's settings to output in lower field dominance, btu all I got was unwatchable flicker.
I tried a demo version of BitVice and it yielded the same results as Compressor (just poor quality when field dominance set to "Same as source" and unwatchable flicker when set to lower). This adds weight to my theory that the problem is in the field dominance conversion which I think is being done by DVD SP. Maybe if an expert on this field dominance can confirm or rule out my theory, I can move past this bump in the road.
Has anyone tried moving projects over to the Adove suite and outputted via Encore?
Cheers
Dav

Speeding up clips: fine in FCP, wrong in export

Hey all, I have a problem with FCP HD. I captured some shots at 720 24p DVCPRO HD off the Panasonic HDV. The shots are about 12 minutes long without an edit. Well, an actor stalled on a line so I made a few edits and sped up parts of the shot to a modest 125% or so. I didn't want the speed up to be very noticeable.
I managed to shave off 3 seconds or so, which was a good thing. It looks fine in FCP 5. However, when I export to either uncompressed footage or H.264 the speed ups are just jitters. Nothing gets out of sync, the footage just jitters in a strange way. I can't figure out why! It totally seems like a bug. Any help would be appreciated. I would hate to compromise the integrity of the movie just becuase of some software bug.
Thanks,
Schmüdde
www.fermatasonata.com
www.iamconcrete.com <--- film site.

Just in case anybody is watching this thread, I found a solution... but not an ideal one.
Maxplanar's suggestion actually ended up not working. I still got the studdering. I then deleted all the render files... and tried to make sure there wasn't anything cached anywhere that the software might be calling on that made the clip speed incorrect. Still nothing worked.
The solution? Ugly.
I changed the clips that were supposed to be running at 100% to 101%. Works without studdering.
what?
Wish I knew what the problem was... but at least I have a solution.
So the time line might look something like this:
|------|---|---|---|---|---|--------|
100% 120 101 130 101 123 100%
Where the clips that are not == 100 or 101% are the clips that I just wanted to speed up a bit. The ones that are at 101% I had to do just so the software would export the timeline correctly.
Schmüdde

Drifting sync

We're importing long interview clips from P2 - 720/24p DVCPro HD and getting a strange sync drifting problem. The clips start out playing in sync and then over the course of a minute or two drift progressively more and more out of sync.
This happens both in the viewer or if we cut the clips into a sequence and play them there.
The really strange thing is that if we stop the sequence or the viewer and then hit play again, the clip jumps right back into sync.
Has anyone had any experience with this issue?
Thanks for any assistance!

Do not use ProRes HQ. It's overkill unless you are working with FILM not VIDEO. Just use ProRes 422. You will see this documented all over this forum. It was even discussed earlier today.
To the OP- A lot of people also use MPEG Streamclip (free download) to convert files to editing formats. Not that there is anything wrong with Compressor. I just want to point out another option.
What sample rate was the audio recorded in? 44.1khz or 48khz? If it's the former it would explain why your audio is drifting. Try using QT to convert to 48khz AIFF 16 Bit

DVCPro 50 24p @ 29.97 - Pulldown?

Hello,
I'm working on a project that was shot with the Panasonic SDX-900 at 24p.
I captured the footage with the DV50 Easy Set-up at 29.97 and I'll be outputting to DVCPro tape as well as DVD.
I've read through the forum on how it should be captured and edited, but I'm still unclear on Pulldown. Do I need to actually do anything with that in order to finish, or is the footage I captured fine in the 29.97 timeline without adding or removing pulldown? I apologize, but I just don't get it.
I read something about "flicker frames" and cutting on the 5th frame and that's a little unclear as well. I did notice when I exported a full-res Quicktime of the project that occasionally there would be a flash frame of the previous shot if I had used a clip from it's very first frame, so I went back and adjusted the in-points of those clips.
I'm giving the project to another post facility to online, and I want to make sure it's prepped as well as possible, so if anyone can tell me if there's any processing of the footage that I need to do before that I would really appreciate it.
Thanks a lot,
Shona

In case anyone has the same question, this was answered on the Cow FCP forum:
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1000966#1000966

DVCPRO HD - 24p from HDX900 not smooth

I am preparing to do an HD project on my FCP system. This weekend I ran some tests by downconverting a DVCPRO HD test tape w/ 24p and 30p footage with pans and other stuff to Beta-SP AND separately capturing thru FW400. The DC went thru an AJA SDI to component converter. Sweet little box. The Beta downconvert and resulting edits worked with no problem. The FW capture and edit (from a 1200a deck) led to mixed results.
If the edit timebase was 23.98, everything looked okay, but since my final output is SD via compressor, the SD file compressed from that timeline (to uncompressed 8-bit) showed problems in intrepreting the pans - the single problem I'm getting is an extra, duplicate frame of video every five frames.
This can be counted by pressing the forward motion cursor several times. Every 4th and 5th frame are the same. When you play it's a juddery effect. The Beta doesn't show this. The original 23.98 timebase timeline doesn't show this. Other manifestations of timelines (29.97) do. I believe this is 'normal' 24p footage. I captured with an easy setup of 720p24 and 720p30 to see if one got rid of the problem, but it didn't.
My ultimate goal is to downconvert to Beta first, so it won't affect me. But what if I wanted to go direct, as many recommend I do? I'd be in a bad way. So, what might I be missing? Much appreciated.
Chris

Just to clarify, (forget about the Bea downconvert part of my story) the way I'm going in this case is cutting the HD on a 23.98 timeline. So far, thankfully, that works. What's not working is the down-format. Ultimately, that will be in the form of a Betacam SP or DVCAM dub and certainly an SD DVD.
When I create the uncompressed 8-bit file in compressor, and reset the EZ setup in FCP to the BMD Decklink extreme codec, the remported file shows the camera pans displaying the extra fifth frame. I'm just trying to find a way to smooth out this part of the process. The experts on the group say creating SD through compressor at the end of the line is the thing to do. So I'm not so certain any of this points to my going the wrong way. But I'll be the first to admit I'm at my infancy in experience with HD and 24p. It get's a bit confusing.

DVCPro HD 60P in a 24P timeline (From HPX 500 / P2card)

I've been playing with the new DVCProHD features in CS3.1, and I am wondering if there is a way to actually bring full 60P footage in a 24P timeline to slow it down.
From what I read in the project settings, it doesn't seem possible. Although it reads 59.94 in the project manager, when its duration is increased, it just starts interpolating just as 24P footage (Sure looks better than it did in PP2, but definitely not 60P :-). In a 60P timeline, that issue is obviously not there.
I know Panasonic has been offering a frame rate converter for FCP to resolve that exact issue. Are we stuck until a Windows version is out (if ever)? Does anyone have a work around?
I also noticed that we can't export a 720/60P DVCPro sequence to 24P in WMV HD and expect good results? I tried unconstrained at 20 Megs/s average with not luck...
Vince

Thanks Marcus. Do I then have to use Raylight render settings for the entire timeline, or will Premiere let me render that particular clip to the native DVCPro Codec. I understand that you created your own version of DVCPro, is that correct?
Thanks,
Vince

DVCPRO HD 1080i 24p question

I know FCP does not support DVCPRO HD 1080 24p yet.
But I have played with Cinema Tools. I used the Nattress Cadance plug-in and was able to make a 24p file. It plays the right time in QuickTime but when I bring it into AE it is re-sized to 640x360. Not of much use. I have read the Cinema Tools docs front to back and have been searching for hours with no answers. We are shooting with HVX200 and need to supply a 1920x1080 24p file. Thanks
Mike Schrengohst
[email protected]

This thread on DVXuser might help you:
www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=55065
about half-way down, a workflow is suggested. The resize to 360 pix appears to be only for the QT proxies.
best of luck

DVCPro 720 24P to HDV

What is the best route to write 720P 24 DVCPro footage to HDV tape. I know it is not the best and there are other alternates such as playing the footage out of my laptop however it has to be done. I need to get the footage on to HDV tape. Please tell me the steps.

Issue #1 - as Andy points out, that deck records 1080i 29.97 only. No 720p. 720p is a JVC format.
Issue #2 - That deck doesn't have ANY professional inputs. Composite and S-Video only. No component...no SDI. HDV decks are players only. HDV is simply NOT a mastering format.
Issue #3 - Firewire output only to this deck really. For that you need to convert DVCPRO HD I-Frame 720p to 1080i GOP format...not the best way to go. Even with Compressor and everything set to best you get some weird artifacting. I have tested this out and have not been satisfied with the results.
Shane

1080i/24p to Film Out in Final Cut Pro

A client of ours shot a project with the *Panasonic HVX-200* in 1080i/24p (not 1080i/24pa) and they are asking if they will have a problem with the footage when they output to film. They are using *Final Cut Studio 2* on an *8-core Mac Pro*.
I told them to use *Cinema Tools* to reverse telecine the 29.97 footage back to the native 24p and they shouldn't have problems. They said I was wrong and that frames would be lost in the process. (Which I know isn't how 3:2 pull-downs work) They also said that they did this before and the 1080i footage they got from the HVS-200 P2 cards and FS-100's were already in 24p format when transfered. Is there a way that this was possible or am I missing something here?
Thanks!

You are right, they are wrong, very, very, very wrong. I'm going to copy and paste from another thread I just answered about this same issue:
I am the author of the FS-100 DVD guide, work with Focus Enhancements closely, have many consulting clients using this system, and have been using the HVX200/FS-100/FCP system since the HVX200 shipped, and a cert'd trainer.
As for FCP, here's the workflow. To start, make sure your HVX is set to 1080i/24PA. If it is set to 1080i/24P, you won't get 24p, you'll get 60i with the 24P effect. Just like on the DVX100. 24P results in a native 60i with the 24P effect, as 24PA has metadata that allows it to become progressive and 24P native.
In FCP, bring in your footage with the Log & Transfer window, assuming you're on FCP 6. Any pre-6 version was super buggy with P2 data. Make sure the "remove advanced pulldown" is selected and import your footage. Ignore the "Compressor" that is referred to in the clips info (which is all the metadata), it will not say 1080p24, it only refers to the compression engine handling the footage, not the actual compression of the clip.
In your project, delete any Sequences you have, in the FCP menu go to Easy Setup, and choose "DVCPRO HD - 1080pA24". Create a new Sequence and you're good to go. Simple as that.
If you go to look at "Item Properties" for these clips, look at the "Vid Rate" field, it will be 24p. The "Compressor" field refers to an engine and has nothing to do with the actual format of the clip, ignore it. The 1080p30 you see as the "Compressor" simply means that the QuickTime 1080p30 engine is being used, and is perfectly capable of driving native 1080p24 footage.
The lines you're seeing on 1080p24 are interlace lines, and are normal, as 1080p24 is, again, 60i with the 24p "effect". You have to record in, and edit in 1080pA24. There's a big difference.

Mixed Media: 720p 60 + DVCPRO 50

Hi all,
I've searched the forums looking to answer this question, and may have actually found the answer more than once but have now thoroughly confused myself into a corner, so I thought I should just post.
What would be the best method to work with 720p60 HD footage and DVCPRO 50 footage in the same timeline?
All media has already been captured; recapturing with a hardware/deck/camera-based downconvert is no longer an option. Final output is to an SD DVD, in both NTSC and PAL (for which I'll be using Natress' Standards Conversion).
I've been able to work with both formats in a variety of timelines, including Uncompressed 10-bit, DVCPRO 50 and so on, with each yielding slightly different results (letting FCP handle the rendering required). I'll be slowing down and reversing some clips, doing some desaturating, color correction, and adding grain here and there, so different combinations look better and worse depending on the sequence preset and the format of a particular clip, but none is consistently good for both formats.
I'm assuming the correct way to approach this is to standardize the formats between the two sources -- in this case I'm figuring the best option is to downconvert the HD to a friendly SD (like DVCPRO 50, for example).
Based on one of Shane Ross' posts I tried Media Manager, but I was given a warning that the frame rates didn't match and that I could either abort or preserve the framerate of the source (720p). Is the only other option a time- and drive space- costly conversion via Compressor?*
*Um, yeah, important note: I've already done a bunch of editing on this project, naively (perhaps) believing that I could go about downconverting later on, but I did this thinking that Media Manager could easily convert and replace or create a new project with the downconverted media.
Any advice would be extremely appreciated.
Did I mention my deadline is in two days?
2x2 GHz G5, 4GB RAM; 1.67 GHz 15" PB G4, 2GB RAM Mac OS X (10.4.7) SATA RAID; G-RAID (x3)

Hey Pat, thanks -- your post gets to the heart of my troubles. (Shane's does too, in the sense of technical specifics, e.g. please forgive any slightly misstated specs in what follows...)
The 16mm footage, which was originally 24 frames per second, was transferred to DVCPRO 50 (interlaced NTSC, 720x480, 29.97) before being captured (and it looks great). The few bits of DV were actually shot PAL (progressive) before being transfered to DV NTSC (interlaced), prior to capture (I had no say here, this is how I received the material -- which, by the way, looked pretty nasty).
The HD footage was shot 720p 60, which I'm understanding means 960x720, 'p' for 'progressive' and 60 frames per second. That last part has confused the heck out of me -- I know it's possible to shoot faster than NTSC's run of the mill 30fps (okay, 29.97), but for some reason I thought this was an unusual circumstance (as if it needed a special camera or tape stock or whatever). I also understand the potential benefits when it comes to shooting a higher frame rate, like if you're planning on doing speed changes (especially slow-mo), but am I wrong to think that 60fps is unusual?
Let me clarify a little. I know 29.97 is standard NTSC video, but according to the info within FCP (and in my bins), 720p 60 means 60 frames per second, not fields per second (which would indeed be 30 frames per second, or 29.97). If, however, the format was called '60i' this would mean that it was indeed 60 (or 59.98) fields per second, giving us 30 (or 29.97) frames per second. Please let me know if I've got this right.
Assuming that's correct, then the 720p 60 is never going to play nicely with the DVCPRO 50. Even if I take the clips that I want to slow down and change their speed in a native timeline (720p 60), those rendered files still won't look good back in the DVCPRO 50 timeline (progressive vs. interlaced, 59.98 fps vs. 29.97 fps). It would seem to me that the best way to deal with this is to take the 720p 60 footage, make the speed changes in a native timeline (BTW, which way: using the speed controls within FCP, or Twixtor, or some kind of Cinema Tools conversion taking advantage of the 60fps?), and then output or convert this clips somehow before placing them back into the non-native DVCPRO 50 timeline. Make sense?
My original hope was that the frame rate would be a minor concern, rendered nicely in the DVCPRO 50 timeline, and I was optimistic by how easily they seemed to mix together prior to making any speed changes. This hope was further dashed by the different results yielded by some of the film effects, like adding grain (which I now have a solution for: make all of my speed changes, finalize my edit, output a final version, then import that movie for applying additional effects, which will no longer vary according to the source footage specs, such as frame size and frame rate). I know it'll wind up being more complicated than this (for example, if I've got a cross dissolve between a 720p 60 clip and a 16mm clip (transferred to DVCPRO 50), applying a 24p film effect to the HD footage must be done independently (since the 16mm clip already has a 24p look to it), output (or rendered?), a then dropped back into the edit before outputting for final effects, such as adding grain).
Phew. Sorry if I've overstated anything, I just want to be clear. Answering any of my questions above would be a huge help... and yes, my time is running out. No pressure.
Maybe I can help things along by restating my questions (simply):
1. What is the best way to apply speed changes, including reversals, to 720p 60 footage?
2. What is the best way to insert speed-altered 720p 60 clips into a DVCPRO 50 timeline?
3. What is the best way to apply a 24p frame rate effect (courtesy of Nattress' Film Effects) to this mix of 720p 60 and DV? (None of the DVCPRO 50 requires this filter because it was all originally 16mm film, which already appears to be 24p)
Thank you for your help so far, and thanks in advance!
P.S. - Sorry, another thought just occured to me. Say my cut is locked, couldn't I also opt to output the edited 720p 60 clips I'm using from a native 720p 60 timeline, then convert these clips using Compressor and re-import them into my project?
I've read elsewhere that Compressor's format conversions are pretty spiffy, if time-consuming, but I'd only need to do this to a handful of relatively short shots. This way I could import the clips as DVCPRO 50 NTSC (interlaced, 29.97, 720x480), then apply other effects to all of the clips (like 24p, grain, etc.)...

OT: FYI - DVCPRO 50 and sync

Just a little FYI to all those out there using the Panasonic DVCPRO 50 format at 24p...
Audio and video will be off by one frame. The audio will occur one frame earlier than video. This has been confirmed by two Panasonic reps.
I discovered this little tidbit when trying to group (multisync) two clips together by using the slate (clapper) as a common reference. I noticed that each and every single time the slate was closed, the audible clap came BEFORE the slate was closed. One frame before...each and every single time.
We are shooting a pilot using the Panasonic SDX-900 camera in the 24p mode. The Panasonic reps stated that the processing of the video to get it to 24p delays it 1 frame after audio. This is normal for the camera.
Their suggestion? Fix it in post. When you finalize (lock) picture, and are ready to output, shift the video one frame backwards to get things in sync. or, if you are going thru an audio mixer, have them shift the audio.
Or fix it before you begin editing. How am I doing it? Well, I am cheating and using an Avid with an AUTOSYNC feature which allows me to shift the audio in the timeline then make that shift a new subclip, now in sync.
If someone comes up with a good solution for this in FCP, I will give them a Green Star (SOLVED!)
Thanks
Shane
"There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is fixing audio so that it is in sync with video, one clip at a time!"

I saw a Volkswagen commercial being edited...shot with the Varicam AND Sony HDV camera. They used the HDV camera for the interior of the car as it did a 180 degree pan...the Varicam wouldn't fit.
It matched RATHER well. Then again, it was captured with the Kona 2 and in the hands of a professional colorist.
I also heard they used the camera for one shot on JAG.
So yeah, it has it's uses.
Sorry, I should have just let you have your jab...
Shane
"There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is shooting HDV!"

24p & DVCPro HD

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