Cinema Tools doesn't recognize pulldown cadence on 24p DVCPRO 50

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can give me a couple suggestions on this...
I've been capturing 24p material for a documentary from different sources and with different pulldown cadences: DV @ 24p and 24p Advanced, and DVCPRO 50 @ 24p.
The extra frames from the two DV types get removed properly, but not from the DVCPRO 50. I take a clip into Cinema Tools and hit 'Rev Telecine..' (Automated so no options to choose from) and it gives me a 23.98 clip with the what should be the C frame interlaced. (A B C/D D)
It looks like CT is removing 2:3:3:2 'advanced' pulldown and not the normal 2:3:2:3, like it's reading the metadata in the clip wrong. Does anyone know a way to manually set the type of pulldown--either in Cinema Tools or within the metadata of the clip itself?
Thanks in advance,
Will
Dual 2.7 GHz G5, 4.5 GB RAM Mac OS X (10.4.2) FCP 5.03, Cinema Tools 3.03

I didn't know therre was an Automated way either until working on this project, and maybe it's a new setting in Cinema Tools 3. The manual says that CT will recognize the pulldown on the clip automatically when it was shot in a 24p video camera, that this information gets embedded in the clip. The dialog box it gives you for the automatic reverse telecine has no options at all, and all my clips started on an A frame for the possibility of doing all as a batch.
I may have found what happened, (although not how to fix it). My capture setting had Remove Advanced Pulldown checked, and the tapes were recorded with regular pulldown. In my experience with DV footage this has never mattered, it would remove it if it could and if not leave the clip alone.
It looks like there's a bug somewhere in the DVCPRO 50 capture process--that the clip is has the 24p Advanced markers embedded even though it is regular 24p, and so Cinema Tools treats it improperly and removes the wrong frames:
24p Advanced (2:3:3:2) A B B/C C D 29.97 Footage
24p (2:3:2:3) A B C/B C/D D
I I 0 I I (CT removing 2:3:3:2 Pulldown)
24p Advanced A B C D
24p *my result* A B C/D D 23.98 Footage
Has anyone else encountered this bug? Any work arounds known?
Thanks,
Will

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Can Cinema tools 4.0 convert 29.97 to 24p?

Is cinema tools 4.0 a good method for converting 29.97 footage to 24p and are there side effect that need attention due to the shutter speed difference?
The HVX200 footage for my short film was accidentally shot at 1080i60 / 29.97 fps when I wanted it to be 24 progressive native... the setting may have gone to default after we turned off the camera.
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Have you found a solution?
I shot everything in my feature in 24pA and one of my scene was shot 29.97. Must have changed after changing a tape and possible re-powering camera.
I have tried converting the material in cinema tools but the footage was slowed down. I sped the footage up 125% and now the image isn't normal.

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Does anyone know of a way to set the default cinema tools reverse telecine to the following?
*Field 1 - Field 2*
*Style 1*
DD
I want to use the "Tools -> Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" functionality from within Final Cut but for some reason Cinema Tools doesn't remember the settings above as the default. I noticed that it does remember the "capture mode" settings (Field 1 only, field 2 only, field 1 - field 2, field 2 - field 1), but I can't get it to remember the settings in the "Field" section. Does it even do this?
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I have some footage shot at 24p on my canon hf 10. I need to remove pulldown. I saw this artice here
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2410?viewlocale=en_US):
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with compressor I have created a setting and a droplet on my desktop.
but I am interested in what the article says
*This method requires that you determine the cadence pattern for each clip.*
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piff aroni wrote:
I have some footage shot at 24p on my canon hf 10. I need to remove pulldown. I saw this artice here
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2410?viewlocale=en_US
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The best way to figure it out is probably to just run a test.
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I read this from here:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/24p_in_FCPnattress.html
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Message was edited by: Michael Grenadier

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2. It was planned from the beginning to use the multiclip feature in FCP to edit the footage.
3. The tapes from each camera were captured from beginning to end—about an hour each tape, four tapes per camera—at full resolution, the pulldown was removed, and the clips were then recompressed to Photo JPEG EXCEPT the tapes from the SDX900.
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I have a problem that exists on serveral levels. Hopefully I can explain:
1. I directed a concert shoot with eight cameras. All cameras were Panasonic DVX100A configured for 24p Advanced except one, which was a Panasonic SDX900 configured for 24p (which I later discovered was laid down with a 3:2 pulldown instead of a 2:3:3:2 advanced pulldown like the DVX100A cameras).
2. It was planned from the beginning to use the multiclip feature in FCP to edit the footage.
3. The tapes from each camera were captured from beginning to end—about an hour each tape, four tapes per camera—at full resolution, the pulldown was removed, and the clips were then recompressed to Photo JPEG EXCEPT the tapes from the SDX900.
4. When I finally figured out that the footage from the SDX900 used a 3:2 pulldown, I opened the captured clips in Cinema Tools and attempted to remove the pulldown. The problem I ran into there was that CT can't handle files larger than 9 GB. Each captured clip (four of them—one for each tape) ranged between 10 and 13 GB.
5. My solution to this was to open each clip in QuickTime Pro and split the clip in half, open each half in CT and remove the pulldown on the smaller files, then open the smaller halves in QT again and join them back together into a single clip.
6. When I open the new master clips in Cinema Tools and analyze them, the video/frame rate is 23.98 as expected. BUT, when I import the clips into Final Cut Pro, the video/frame rate is 29.97 and I can't understand why. If I try to do a pulldown removal (again) from FCP, it doesn't work—I get an error that it can't find a clip with a pulldown to remove (duh!).
Is this a bug, and is there any way to fix this and make it work? I need to make all of the assets available for my class at school.

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I am cutting a feature shot on film for the first time and have a workflow question. Apologies if this post has been done to death and feel free to send a link to another post or site.
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Your question deals with workflow, however, something confuses me.
If the feature was shot on 35mm, Telecine to HD-CAM SR and then downconverted to SD DV-CAM, I really doubt it is 29.97 w/ burned timecode.
Usually people shoot 24 when shooting film.
If that is the case then:
1) Your HD-CAM SR is 23.98
2) Your DVCAM is 29.97 with 23.98 Timecode burn in.
If you need to deliver an EDL for offline then your EDL will be worthless if your cutting in 29.97. The timecodes won't match.
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The second way, is to go the route you already have in mind.
1) Capture DVCAM at 29.97 and
2) remove 3:2 pulldown before you start editing.
There are many pitfalls with this method but atleast you have the burn-in to use as reference if you stray off course (meaning, you remove pulldown incorrectly).
Here are some methods:
A) track down After Effects. It has a function called Inerpret Footage. This will guess your pulldown and create new native media. This is my preferred method.
B) Use Cinema Tools. You should export a small segment of your footage and test removing the pulldown. Most don't get it right without determining the I-Frame.
C) Use Compressor's frame controls to remove your pulldown. This method (in my mind) is the sloppies of the bunch. It provides errors around cadence breaks... some people will disagree.
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I read an article that was on Ken Stones site. It said that, basically you CAN'T
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Am I missing something here? Does anyone know a procedure that can get me to 24 progressive frames. Is there a 3rd party piece of software out there?
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Well then, that is your problem. Those aren't reverse telecin-able. What are reversable are DV tapes that you captured at 29.97...in the DV/NTSC codec.
Are you working with Digital Intermediates? Or footage telecined to tape?
Typical Telecine to Tape workflow is:
Telecine to DVCAM
Lab provides DVCAM and Flex file to you.
Open Cinema Tools. Import Flex file and export batch Capture list.
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Reverse telecine the footage with Cinema Tools.
Edit.
What exactly are you doing? Where did these files come from? What is your workflow?
Shane

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