30p to 24p via Film Effects?

Had an event this weekend and one of the crew brought a little JVC HDV camera and we shot some footage in 720p HDV. We'd love to convert it to 24p before burning to DVD, but when we apply Graeme's filters we're getting interlace type artifacting. Can't find a way to turn off the de-interlacing and still convert to 24p.
Can this be done? Is there something else we can use? Or should we just leave it at 30p?

I'm not sure of the answer, but I can say that without the additional temporal resolution of 60i, it'd be hard to convert to 24p. If the footage is not sync, you could use Cinema Tools to change the frame rate to 24P. It'd slow it down by a fifth, which is why it won't work for sync stuff, but it'd work otherwise (unless Cinema Tools has a problem with HDV)...
Patrick

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Nattress Film Effects (lots of nerdy detail)

Hello all.
Firstly, I use Final Cut Express 3.5, and not FCP. HOWEVER, I've read many times that the FCP forum is a much better place to post questions about Nattress Film Effects, due to the fact that there are MANY more users here. So, here goes:
I edited a music video last year using Film Effects in FCE 3.5. It came out great, considering the (admittedly lowly) level of miniDV cams we used. Film Effects made a HUGE difference. Awesome. Best $99 a fellow ever spent, and I mean it (we even got onto TV).
BUT... During the process, I encountered a major problem, and I'm quite sure that my work flow was the culprit. I basically had the entire thing cut and sequenced just the way I wanted, then dragged the Nattress effects where I needed them (to clips in various sequences, using different filters and so forth). With nearly EVERY cut, the filter "turned off" a frame before the cut, giving it an unbearably "sloppy" appearance.
i.e. I shot of a man singing on the street. CUT TO: Woman in Bedroom, reading love letters. I make that cut with no prior adjustments to the image. THEN I add a "G Film Basic Cool" to the man, and a "G Film Basic Warm" to the girl. Presto. Sloppy, sloppy cut between the two. The last frame of the dude and the first frame of the girl: both without the effect, causing a bad cut. With synced vocals, I can't "cheat" by tossing just those frames.
The workaround, I found, was to extend the clip either above or below the adjoining one (so that it overlapped), add the filter, and THEN cut. VERY tedious, considering how many seperate cuts were in the vid. Although, it would still be tedious to render overly-long clips and then widdle them down (especially since the point of a NLE application is to be flexible).
Am I totally missing the point of what the workflow really ought to be? Becasue what Film Effects actually DID to the footage (far from the cut) was truly great. I must be missing something.
Sorry for the overly long email. I'm trying to do my homework ahead of time on this one!
Thanks,
Chris H.

The good news is that the answer is simple. It's all to do with the order you apply plugins. Because FilmEffects plays with time to get the 24p effect, it needs to know about frames both before and after the current one. That means it needs to know about the frame beyond the end of your clip, for instance. Now, filters generally apply to just the in through out points, and don't apply to the frames beyond, so if you do a colour correction filter, then add the 24p from Film Effects, the last frame can be made up from a frame that doesn't have the colour correction applied!
The simple solution is to ensure than any filter that alters time, like the 24p from Film Effects comes first in the stack. If it's not first, a simple re-arrangement of order can fix the issue.
Not only does this ensure things work right, but you'll get faster rendering too!
Graeme

How do I convert frame rate from 30p to 24p????

I am about to start post on a short film shot on the mark II. I am going to convert the footage to ProRes. The director wants the "film" look. Can I change the frame rate from 30p to 24p in compressor? Are there any key settings I should know about?

There are lot of different ways to go about it, all have mixed results, and there is no way you'll get flawless results. However, here's a few ways to try:
A) Conform to 23.98, using Cinema Tools - You'll be slowing down the footage, so this is no good if you have on-set dialogue recording you're going to keep and need lip sync. If you weren't going to use any on-set audio and doing all dialogue and FX replacement, it wouldn't matter. This is also effective for music videos - just speed up the audio playback while shooting, and when you slow the video down in post, it'll match.
B) Use retiming in Compressor - I believe this uses some advanced frame blending and optical flow - I've had decent results with this method, but you can end up with some artifacts on high motion material.
C) Use Twixtor within FCP or Adobe After Effects. This has been my preferred method for surgical speed manipulation. It's time consuming and just like method B, you'll get artifacts on high motion material.
What you definitely do NOT want to do is drop your 30p footage into a 24p timeline. The motion will be horribly stuttery. Similarly, don't try to just use frame blending to achieve the frame rate conversion - it's not very impressive to see frame blending all over everything.
You're best results will come from having low motion footage. Interviews, head shots, etc. work great. If you're doing a lot of action, I'd advise against trying to convert using anything but method A. If you can get your hands on the 7D, you can shoot 24p natively.

How to create subtle slowmotion from 30p to 24p?

Hi,
What's the best way to create a very subtle slowmotion from 30p to 24p in Motion? Is it to create a 24p project, import the 30p footage and then change the timing speed to 80%? Do I have to use any kind of 'frame blending'?
Thank u very much for your answers!

Select your imported video. In Properties > Timing... slow down the video Speed to 80%. You can apply a frame blending from the dropdown (if you want to... try them out!) but I don't see where you'd have to if the playback is 24p, unless you want to add the effect to the video (optical flow might be interesting).

Working with 30p and 24p in premiere

I would like some advice on mixing 30fps footage with 24fps footage. Or, shooting all in 30p, but I would want the final video in 24p without any quality loss.
I have two shoot days for a short video I am making. The first day I shot an entire interview and tons of broll in 30fps. I have another day of shooting and was wondering what my best option would be: Either to keep shooting the rest in 30p and then putting all 30p footage on a 24p timeline? Or, finish my next shoot day with 24p (having both 30p and 24p footage) and then putting the mix footage on a 24 timeline? Or, is there too much quality now that will be lost, if I take 30p to 24p?
Suggestions? My ultimate goal is to have a cinematic look and feel.
This will be my first project in premiere.
Thanks!

My ultimate goal is to have a cinematic look and feel.
Then shoot in 24 fps.
Suggestions?
See this thread in After Effects Forum.

Film effect plug-ins

I have Final Cut Pro. Do I need another program like "after effects" to support, (for instance) Red Giant Software "Magic Bullet"? What in your opinion is the best film effect? Thanks, Mike

www.nattress.com FILM EFFECTS
Cheaper than Magic Bullet, with similiar results. With MB, you'll have to buy the expensive version (MB Editors only does color correction) while the Nattress filters cost $100 and do the film look AND color correction options.
I use both. They both are good.
Shane

Hu is the name of plugin to make the film effect

hu is the name of plugin to make the film effect.
can halp me,thanks!

What film effect? Grain? Grading? Film damage? There's a whole lot of them. There are plugins contained in suites such as The Foundry Tinderbox, Digieffects Delirium, Genarts Sapphire and surely even Boris and you can of course by more complex dedicated tools such as Cinelook and Magic Bullet Looks. Some grain management tools and color correction are included in AE. you can build a damaged film look manually as well. Check my old project:
http://creation.mylenium.de/motiondesign/ae_downloads/ae_down_looks.html
Mylenium

Color correction followed by Film effects = bad vid?

I have some shots at the beach, and the shots look pretty good after I do the color correction. I want to add the film effect, so composite clips using Screen & Soft light modes, and use the gaussian blur. It results in something that I totally dont want, and it looks all washed out. Color correction and the film effects work pretty good individually, but together they are just not working for me. Can someone please tell me how can I preserve the color correction, and that filmic glow at the same time.
Thanks a lot

You can move the filters around in a different order. Moving them in a particular order will change how the filters interacted with each other.
For example: You might want to do a lighting effect first followed by a blur. In this order you blurring the lighting effect. If you do the blur first and light effect next. You lighting the blur. (OR) You may want to do the color correction last for an over all color effect on the video and how it looks. If you do a color correction first the filter to follow with change how the color correction looks.
Play around with the order and try to get the effect you want.

30p to 24p transfer

From all the past issues with artifacts from going to 30p to 24P, im wondering if this has been taken care of in the new compressor and if there's one of those ridiculously long processes to get a somewhat decent transfer. If not, would AE do something along those lines?

I'm not sure of the answer, but I can say that without the additional temporal resolution of 60i, it'd be hard to convert to 24p. If the footage is not sync, you could use Cinema Tools to change the frame rate to 24P. It'd slow it down by a fifth, which is why it won't work for sync stuff, but it'd work otherwise (unless Cinema Tools has a problem with HDV)...
Patrick

Aged Film effect turns my clip pink or blanks it out completely

When I preview the "aged film" effect on my clip, it looks fine, but when I applied it, it shaded the clip pink. I hit "undo," but when I tried it again later, and I applied it, it turned my clip into a blank white screen. Why is it doing this? How do I fix it?

iMovie: Adding effects to a clip with titles may make it become gray or tinted
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301248
Contrary to what the article says, the title does NOT have to be in the same clip.

1080i/24p to Film Out in Final Cut Pro

A client of ours shot a project with the *Panasonic HVX-200* in 1080i/24p (not 1080i/24pa) and they are asking if they will have a problem with the footage when they output to film. They are using *Final Cut Studio 2* on an *8-core Mac Pro*.
I told them to use *Cinema Tools* to reverse telecine the 29.97 footage back to the native 24p and they shouldn't have problems. They said I was wrong and that frames would be lost in the process. (Which I know isn't how 3:2 pull-downs work) They also said that they did this before and the 1080i footage they got from the HVS-200 P2 cards and FS-100's were already in 24p format when transfered. Is there a way that this was possible or am I missing something here?
Thanks!

You are right, they are wrong, very, very, very wrong. I'm going to copy and paste from another thread I just answered about this same issue:
I am the author of the FS-100 DVD guide, work with Focus Enhancements closely, have many consulting clients using this system, and have been using the HVX200/FS-100/FCP system since the HVX200 shipped, and a cert'd trainer.
As for FCP, here's the workflow. To start, make sure your HVX is set to 1080i/24PA. If it is set to 1080i/24P, you won't get 24p, you'll get 60i with the 24P effect. Just like on the DVX100. 24P results in a native 60i with the 24P effect, as 24PA has metadata that allows it to become progressive and 24P native.
In FCP, bring in your footage with the Log & Transfer window, assuming you're on FCP 6. Any pre-6 version was super buggy with P2 data. Make sure the "remove advanced pulldown" is selected and import your footage. Ignore the "Compressor" that is referred to in the clips info (which is all the metadata), it will not say 1080p24, it only refers to the compression engine handling the footage, not the actual compression of the clip.
In your project, delete any Sequences you have, in the FCP menu go to Easy Setup, and choose "DVCPRO HD - 1080pA24". Create a new Sequence and you're good to go. Simple as that.
If you go to look at "Item Properties" for these clips, look at the "Vid Rate" field, it will be 24p. The "Compressor" field refers to an engine and has nothing to do with the actual format of the clip, ignore it. The 1080p30 you see as the "Compressor" simply means that the QuickTime 1080p30 engine is being used, and is perfectly capable of driving native 1080p24 footage.
The lines you're seeing on 1080p24 are interlace lines, and are normal, as 1080p24 is, again, 60i with the 24p "effect". You have to record in, and edit in 1080pA24. There's a big difference.

Convert 25p clip to 24p via AE and Dynamic Link

I heard somewhere that AE is great at converting 25p to 24p and vice versa. If I have a clip or clips in my 24p project which filmed at 25p, can I use dynamic link to send them to AE, convert to 24p there, and end up with a perfect 24p project?

depends on your needs...
1. You can use AE to conform a clip via "optical flow" to a new frame rate - that works great for single short clips and you have to supervise the process and tune settings to prevent motion artifacts (the process generates new synthesized frames by morphing) Don't use dynamic Link to embed it in your timeline - just render out a new conformed clip - less problems - more speed...
2. You can use the "Interpred Footage" option in Premiere and set the framerate of the source clips from 25p to 24p this is simple and you just can use the clip in your 24p sequence. The audio will be streched and that can result in a too low pitch. In this case you can use Adobe Audition to do a HQ audio conform with pitch/stretch compensation.
--> !Attention! If you use "Interpred Foogate" and change the frame rate Premiere will loose the adaped timing for multiple audio tracks in the soure file after reloading a project - check audio sync all the time if you use this feature or replace the clip audio with external audio files...

30p vs 24p

In considering which frame rate to standardize on for this series, I'm pondering the benefits, if benefits there are, to 24p vs. 30p. What I see most often in documentation is that 24p gives "that coveted film look."
Of course, I plan on doing some shooting this weekend to see how much of a difference I can tell from an emperical perspective, but I thought I'd see if there was a general sense around here of the whens and wheres to use 24p over 30p. I'm assuming that Sony included this option because there are reasons to choose it. But then, it may just be that Marketing wanted more bells and whistles. One never knows.
Any thoughts on the benefits of 24p?

chris,
Ah, so the stuttered look is what 24p contributes to the "film look?"
when movies first started being made ( silent ) the frame rate was something like 18fps I think.... when shown on a 24fps "projector" they look like they are speeded up....thats why so many of the old silent "clips" we used to see in the theatre as kids ( filler between the 2 feature films usually shown for our one ticket in those days )...were so fast...like the keystone cops etc...they moved fast and it was sorta funny to see everyone moving so fast....but in the beginning they were projected at 18fps....and moved " normal "....
However, the frame rate of 18fps flickered a lot ....and wasnt that smooth. the "mitchell movement" ( the claw and registration pins and motor etc that makes up the basic movie camera....which drags the film down and puts it in position for exposure ...24 times per second now ) got invented and movie cameras became 24fps.
one of the reasons movies are 24 fps is simply because the invention of the mitchell movement ( the parts that put the film in the gate and so on for exposure ) was fast enough to get rid of a lot of the "flicker" that you saw at 18fps....
That mitchell movement is going REALLY FAST ( at 24fps ).....if you were to look at it working ( like open the side door of a film camera and load film and run it for a few seconds....you would see how screaming fast that thing is moving )...
Now, as time went on the movement got even BETTER ( capable of going faster than 24fps ) ....and you could also make it go slower... which is called overcranking and undercranking the camera.
Because the projectors are 24fps....if you run a film camera at 60fps everything will look like it is going very slow ( slow motion ). If you run the film camera at 18fps and project it....everything will look like it is going FASTER.....
In real world shooting you could undercrank the camera on a stunt to make it look like the action is going faster than it would otherwise look ( help the stunt along a little bit...by undercranking )...
Or you would overcrank to make something look like it is slow motion.
These fps speeds in the camera are adjustable but 99% of the time the film camera will shoot at 24fps. And the projector in the theatre is projecting at 24 fps....
This has nothing to do with "film looks" and "aesthetics" etc... its simply the speed of the projectors being 24fps....and the mitchell movement in the cameras....
now time has marched on further and new stuff is being introduced to the old world of film and video.... but at least you know why film is 24fps ( cause projectors are 24fps )

From "Video" to "Film" effects plugin ...

Hi,
Does anyone know/have any plugins that can give video that really "film" type effect? I've tried doing it using Color Correction & 3 Way but someone told me there may be plugins for it?
Or any other plugins you may think would come in handy? Is it worth investing in Magic Bullet?
Ali.

Is it worth investing in Magic Bullet?< </div>
If you can make it pay for itself, sure.
The film look from video is a terribly overworked cliché. It works when appropriate but so many of us slap it on in hopes of somehow improving bad video or satisfying some director's pedestrian concept.
A filmish end result starts in preproduction. Choose your lighting, shutter speeds, codecs, lenses, and sound systems to achieve a satisfying style. Scewing around in post is dreadfully inefficient the firs few times mostly because "film look" is totally subjective.
bogiesan

Silent film effects questions

Hi,
I'm shooting a film in which I'm trying to replicate the look of a silent film and have a few questions someone can hopefully help me with. (I'm using FCP 4.0)
1. I'm trying to do an iris to transition between scenes, i.e. the screen will go black and the picture will diminish into a smaller and smaller circle, eventually leaving nothing but black. FCP 4 has an 'iris' transition, but it seemingly works in the opposite manner; a small circle of the next scene in the timeline (in this case an empty black frame) will start out small in the image and increase to cover the entire screen. How can I fix this to achieve the effect I'm going for?
2. This one may seem stupid and there must be a very obvious answer, but I can't figure out how to go about it. I'm trying to make a silent film title card and have no idea how to make the border that's usually around them without it just looking like cheap straight lines. Any ideas?
3. This isn't really related, but I shot using a wide angle lens and the lens is visible at the edges of the frame in all of my footage. I've been blowing the image up to about 106-108% (sometimes adjusting the center of the image) under the Motion tab in order to basically zoom past the edges of the lens in the image. Is there a better way to go about this, or is this really all I can do?
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

1. After you apply the iris transition...dbl-click it to bring it into the viewer. You'll see a very tiny arrow towards the top right of the transition interface...click on it...it will reverse itself.
2. You could create something in photoshop, or search your computer for 'matte' or 'mask'...see what's available. I know Digital Juice has gobs of them and you may have additional software installed that has something you could use.
3. You might try vignetting the entire video...again, you may find a matte or mask somewhere on your computer, or you could create one using the 'Shapes/Circle (or Oval)', from the pulldown at bottom right of your viewer (has a film frame with an 'A' in it). Once you've tweaked it, just save it out as a .tif and import for use as a mask/matte. There are a variety of ways to incorporate it, including composite modes.
K

30p to 24p via Film Effects?

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