720/24p Question

Hi. I am a beginner with a question. I am having an issue with the frame rate in FCP. I have been shooting at 720/24p on an HVX 200. I am recording to a Firestore FS100. It is set to DVCPRO HD and the format is set to P2. I have the FCP 6.0.4 sequence and capture presets set at DVCPRO HD 720p24. I have also checked the "Remove Advanced Pulldown and Duplicated Frames" box in the Import Preferences drop down of the Log and Transfer window. When I transfer the clips the video rate shows up in the browser window as 59.94. Is there something that I am missing to get the video rate to 23.98?
I pulled the same clips from the Firestore into Premier and they came in at 23.98. Any help that anyone could give would be awesome.
Thanks!
Jeff

Not to my knowledge. The extra frames in the 60p stream are just duplicates of the 24 that you want, so they don't hold any useful additional information. The only reason 24p records into a 60p stream is that the specs for the tape-based DVCPRO-HD format (that the HVX inherited) only support a 60p stream for 720p. The HVX embeds 24p into a 60p stream so that you can record the stream directly onto a DVCPRO-HD tape deck, if you want.
However, since we now have P2 and FS100s that don't carry these stream restrictions, it probably seems a little wasteful to record all those duplicate frames, doesn't it? Fortunately with the FS100's newer firmware versions you now have the option to save only the frames that you're actually shooting.
There's a storage comparison chart for the different shooting modes here:
http://www.focusinfo.com/solutions/catalog.asp?id=150

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Canon 7D 720/60p converted to 720/24p in Premiere Pro CS4

I've exhausted all my resources trying to find a simple answer but it seems like anything regarding 60p to 24p is about slow motion video which I already know how to do and understand thoroughly.
My question is, with my Canon 7D, there's no option for 720/24p (23.976), there's only 720/60p (29.97) or 50p. Getting 30p video is simple because Premiere just drops every other frame. Now 24p is a little trickier. There is an option for 1080/24p which is overkill for what I want and need to do. I also don't have the capacity in memory cards for that.
I understand that if I drop a 60p video on a 24p timeline, Premiere will just drop frames. But since 60 is not divisible by 24.. how does Premiere know which frames to drop? I believe there's also a Frame Blending option as well.. how would that work?
I'm looking for the best way to convert 60p video to 24p in Premiere. I can't imagine it being overly complicated.

quazis wrote:
Thanks for the reply but I'm not sure who told you that 1080p24 produces smaller file sizes than 720p60.
Canon 7D has a max recording limit of 4gb (per file) due to FAT32 file system restrictions. At 1080p, 4gb = 12minutes. On a 16gb card, that's only 48minutes. At 720p, 4gb = 30minutes. That's 2 hours.
Then it's Canon's encoding scheme or sensor use that makes such a huge difference. My AVCHD files from a Panasonic HMC150 are smaller at 1080p24 than at 720p60. Which makes sense since the raw pixel count per second is less with 1080p24 (49,766,400 at 1080p24 versus 55,296,00 for 720p60).
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BDVS Tutorials
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DVCPRO HD Varicam capture of 720/24p (not 23.978)

Hi,
I was hoping someone could help me, im hiring in a AJHD-1400 deck to digitise some footage shot on the AJ-HDC27 Varicam. It was shot at 720/24p at 60hz meaning that the frame rate is true 24fps not 23.978fps.
I had limited access to one a while back but when trying to figure it out I was only about to capture out HD-SDI into a Kona 23.978 project, the Kona presets didnt have 720/24p.
The final cut pro does have a 720/24p DVCPRO HD but i couldnt get the deck to playout via firewire to capture it, not even sure if the frame convertor option works with this.
I know i cant get stuff into the Kona 23.978 project and can convert the off-speed footage this way but I would want to keep it at 24fps if at all possible otherwise the sound guys will have to restamp the audio I guess.
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Best Regards,
Ian Grey

It was shot at 720/24p at 60hz meaning that the frame rate is true 24fps not 23.978fps.
Sorry, but you are mistaken. That camera does not shoot 24fps straight...nor does it record 24fps straight with pulldown. That camera only shoots 60fps...at 59.94. And then the 24p setting flags the footage as 23.98...so when you capture it with FCP it removes the pulldown to get you to 23.98.
I was only about to capture out HD-SDI into a Kona 23.978 project, the Kona presets didnt have 720/24p.
IMHO this is the best way to capture it into FCP...via a capture card as HD SDI. If you capture via firewire your video is off-sync from audio...audio leading by 2-3 frames typically. Plus if you shot 60fps meaning to slow it down later, the Kona captures it so it will properly do this, while with firewire you might get the error "this footage is not 59.94 fps" when it clearly is. And yes, there is a Kona preset for 720p24. It is called "AJA KONA 720p 23.98 DVCPRO HD Varicam." Again, that camera DOES NOT shoot straight 24fps. The only cameras that do, to my knowledge, are HDCAM and HDCAM SR...the F900 and F950 by Sony.
I would want to keep it at 24fps if at all possible otherwise the sound guys will have to restamp the audio I guess.
Audio was recorded at 24fps straight? Should be 23.98...although audio doesn't have a frame rate. Not sure what settings they set to make it match with video.
Shane

What is the best way to work with AVCHD 720 24p footage in FCE4.1?

Hi I have a Panasonic HMC-150 and I've been shooting 720 24p footage at 21 mbps transfer rate.
I was wondering what is the best way to work with this material in FCE 4.1? I see that in the easy set up menu they only have the option of 1440X1080i at 50 or 60 fps or 1920X1080i at 50 or 60 fps.
Also in the rates drop down menu there is only 50 or 29.97.
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Yikes, this is going to be tricky since FCE does not support native 24p editing.
The work around for some of us is that AVCHD material that is 24p is often recorded to disc at 60i using telecine, in which case it can be editing at 29.97 frames per second, and then detelecined afterward for final export at 23.98 fps. The problem is that I think your camera actually records real 24p - not 24p packed into 60i. When you import the material from the camera what does QuickTime report the framerate as?

HD 720 24p workflow to SD DVD

I have an HVX200. I shot in HD 720 24pn, editing in 720 24p timeline, how do I see the output on a SD monitor in realtime in order to do color correction? I only have a fiirewire DVCam deck. I can onlt seem to see one frame at a time through my deck?
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Confused

You cannot view DVCPRO HD thru a DV deck in real time. Nor will you see anything resembling accurate color. You will need an HD capture card and HD monitor. One cheap option is the Matrox MXO and Apple Cinema Display.
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/ross_shane/MXO.php
If you have a MacPro, you can look into the Decklink Intensity and then an HDTV.
After editing in the 720 24p timeline, I tried select all and pasting into a DVNTSC (29.97) timeline. I can see the video in real time, but I got one frame gaps in my sequence. What do I do with that?
Don't do that. Why are you doing that? When you copy and paste clips of one frame rate into a sequence of another frame rate...that happens. So...don't do that.
I've read that outputting through compressor is best workflow to DVD, but I would like to see it on a SD monitor first to color correct.
Well...you can do it the way you are doing it, but the colors won't be accurate and you can only see one frame at a time. Unfortunately you cannot route the signal thru the camera like you can DV...so you are still looking at needing an HD capture card and HD monitor or TV. Or MXO/ACD.
Shane

Ingesting AVCHD Footage into FCE (shot 720/24p)

Hi, I've been reading up a lot on various problems with ingesting AVCHD footage into FC Express. I'm using a Panasonic HM150 camera. I've transfered the footage from a SD Card reader to my Iomega 500GB external drive. We shot our footage at 720/24p. I tried to use easy setup for this, but there is no format for this in FCE 4.0.1. The best that I can do seems to be AVCHD 1080i. Can anyone assist me with how I can get FCE to ingest AVCHD footage shot at 720/24p and the exact settings I need to use to ensure correct ingestion? Upon trying to log and transfer it, I keep getting the red exclamation mark. Would this be because the settings are incorrect? I'm surprised that FCE doesn't have this particular setting since many people do shoot in the 720 mode.
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Although FCE isn't designed to work with 24p footage, I've heard of a lot of people recently being able to ingest it anyway into FCE, but then getting stuck when it's time to put it into a sequence.
Click the gear button in the upper right of the Log and Transfer window, and navigate to the Preferences menu. Make sure Audio is set to *Plain Stereo* and click the button to *Clear the Cache.* Now try ingesting with your Easy Setup set to AIC 720p30. If it works, you can then use the free [MPEG Streamclip|http://www.squared5.com> to convert the capture scratch files to 29.97fps and edit them in FCE.
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Message was edited by: skalicki`

Error with HVX200 720/24p playback

I have imported 720 24p clips from a Panasonic HVX200 and while the footage plays normally when in the normal canvas window, when I play the clips at fullscreen(...by activating "all frames"...) the image is stretched out during playback; however when I press stop the image returns to normal. The image only stretches out during full screen playback. Any thoughts? Thanks for any help.

Thanks for the reply! The clips are being viewed on my laptop's built in monitor. It is an old, as in 2002, G4 Powerbook. As far as the sequence settings are concerned I set it up for 720 x 960, which I believe is the proper setting for the 720/24p footage from the camera. I'm thinking that maybe its the settings for my Powerbook's monitor in that they don't match the sequence? Don't know if that makes sense or not? Let's see since the camera and laptop are away on a shoot I am trying to recall from memory the other settings...anything else you need to know? Again, thanks for writing.

JVC HD111E 720/24p

I am considering now buying the below iMac with Final Cut Express 4
Will I need to upgrade the ram in order to edit with HD from my 720/24p video camera and will I see any difference in editing speed with a 2.6 and a 2.8 Ghz processor?
System to be purchased as standard below unless modifications are needed to accomodate my HD.
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hey there Markopolo,
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Shot in 720 24p

Shot a project in 720 24p. Getting the expected jitter on Pans and Tilts. Whats the best way to minimize it, while still keeping the "film" feel?

That is really an issue with 24p.
I don't how to help you know, but the basic "rule of thumb" is that it should take seven seconds for something to pan from one side of the screen to the other
And the longer the focal length the slower the pan must be.
Good luck.

720/30P vs 720/24P

Is shooting in 720/30P a far greater thing than shooting in 720/24P. Most of the stuff we are going to start filming is going to be podcasts, internet commercials, training videos, things like that. Am I fine with just going at 24P or should I stay with 30P?

Watch my P2 Workflow Tutorial first.
And the other difference is the "film look" you get with 24P. 30P will look more video-ish, but not as much as 30i...up to you. Test both and see what you prefer.
And Jerry is a hoot!
Shane

720/24P conversion problem

Hey guys, I inadvertently pushed 720/24p instead of 24PN on my Pan HVX-200 and recorded 30 minutes in the pull down mode before I caught it. Now I need to get this footage into Final Cut Pro to edit along with the 24PN stuff I have. How does one go about converting 720/24P back to the native format? I have log and transfer on my FCP. How do you remove the 2:3 pulldown? Is there a setting?
Thanks so much.
Jane Pittman

The pulldown removal will be in this menu, in the LOG AND TRANSFER window...
Shane

720 24p FCP Settings

I just shot a film using the JVC GY-HD110. It shoots on HDV 720 24p miniDV tapes. I am about ready to capture and I wanted to make sure I had my setting right.
Seq: HDV-720p24 (23.98fps)
Capture: HDV-Apple ProRes 422
Device Control: HDV Firewire 24fps (I created this setting and changed the FPS to 23.98)
Are these correct? Any help or suggestions are appreciated.
cja

Be careful Chris. That workflow has some problems with later versions of FCS. Read the below post before you capture...
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7166454&#7166454

24P question....

Hello - I started a thread a while ago and it won't let me post there so I'll start fresh - link I was referring to is:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1027107&tstart=0
So, I just got back from shooting about 8 hours of HDV with the camera set at 24P as opposed to the higher frame rate I had previously used with the intent that my final product will be able to be exported for use on Apple TV at 1280 x 720. Well, what seems to be really odd and perhaps this question should be in the FCE forum (that is what I'm using - apologies if so) is that after I capture a tape and I'm using the Apple codec opion for HDV - the files imported say the tape has a 29.97 frame rate! - really confused....any thoughts??
Thanks,
Steve

Stephen,
After you capture the footage from the camera - you need to apply Reverse Telecine to the footage to turn it into real 24p footage.
If you don't, you something that looks just odd.

Batch Convert 1080/24p to 720/24p... AND Conform to Real-Time

Hi there! A little bit of a conundrum, but I'm sure the answer is out there.
I have about 4 hours of content that was shot on the Sony FS700. The clips were shot at varying frame rates, but the FS700 automatically conforms high-speed footage at 1080/24p. We've already imported to ProRes 422, but I also have the source media (as shot) still available.
I need to covert everything to 720p/24, and also conform to real-time. There's obviously a VERY long story as to why I'd need to "throw out" frames, but that's beside the point. We've all dealt with silly clients...
Rest assured, our group will edit with the original media (and just speed up when we need real-time.) Any suggestions? I'm on a Mac with Adobe CS6 (new convert!) and Final Cut Studio 3. I also own Telestream Episode. THANKS!

Thanks very much for your help. Yes, it was the faster frame rate I was thinking that I thought could help for the fast action sequences. I was concerned about the jello problem that might be more noticeable at a lower frame rate in fast action scenes. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the GH1 doesn't shoot interlaced, only 1080p and 720p in its movie modes.
Actually, sorry I made a mistake in my previous post. In 720, the Gh1 shoots at 60fps, not 30.
My plan was for the timeline sequence to be 1080 and just drop the 720/60p scenes into the 1080/24p timeline. On the GH1, the advantage of shooting in the 720/60p mode is the great slow motion shots you get when slowed down to 24p. Otherwise, yes, the majority would be 24p.

24p question dealing with capturing

friend shoots movie in 24P.
I get to edit movie.
as far as I know, 24P should be captured at 29.97 and FCP makes the adjustments.
so.
when I capture, I get some firece tracers/zebra stripes on the video. I've tried it 3 different ways and everytime, I output a DVD (uncompressed quicktime) and it looks like rubbish.
help me FCP people! Make me a believer (I'm an AVID guy)

Welcome to the discussions, Baldy! I was an Avid guy for 10 years before I started using FCP 3 years ago. I haven't looked back.
Do you have the "zebra stripse" on your TV/video monitor? Were you watching the DVD on TV or on the computer?
24P already has the pulldown inserted. Just like film shot at 24 and telecined to tape. You may be seeing the pulldown frames. Which is normal. There is also no need to export uncompressed to burn a DVD. Edit in the native format DV. Export Quicktime Movie... with current settings. You gain nothing by "up-rezing" to uncompressed before burning to DVD.
Patrick

720/24p Question

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