24P question....

Hello - I started a thread a while ago and it won't let me post there so I'll start fresh - link I was referring to is:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1027107&tstart=0
So, I just got back from shooting about 8 hours of HDV with the camera set at 24P as opposed to the higher frame rate I had previously used with the intent that my final product will be able to be exported for use on Apple TV at 1280 x 720. Well, what seems to be really odd and perhaps this question should be in the FCE forum (that is what I'm using - apologies if so) is that after I capture a tape and I'm using the Apple codec opion for HDV - the files imported say the tape has a 29.97 frame rate! - really confused....any thoughts??
Thanks,
Steve

Stephen,
After you capture the footage from the camera - you need to apply Reverse Telecine to the footage to turn it into real 24p footage.
If you don't, you something that looks just odd.

Similar Messages

720/24p Question

Hi. I am a beginner with a question. I am having an issue with the frame rate in FCP. I have been shooting at 720/24p on an HVX 200. I am recording to a Firestore FS100. It is set to DVCPRO HD and the format is set to P2. I have the FCP 6.0.4 sequence and capture presets set at DVCPRO HD 720p24. I have also checked the "Remove Advanced Pulldown and Duplicated Frames" box in the Import Preferences drop down of the Log and Transfer window. When I transfer the clips the video rate shows up in the browser window as 59.94. Is there something that I am missing to get the video rate to 23.98?
I pulled the same clips from the Firestore into Premier and they came in at 23.98. Any help that anyone could give would be awesome.
Thanks!
Jeff

Not to my knowledge. The extra frames in the 60p stream are just duplicates of the 24 that you want, so they don't hold any useful additional information. The only reason 24p records into a 60p stream is that the specs for the tape-based DVCPRO-HD format (that the HVX inherited) only support a 60p stream for 720p. The HVX embeds 24p into a 60p stream so that you can record the stream directly onto a DVCPRO-HD tape deck, if you want.
However, since we now have P2 and FS100s that don't carry these stream restrictions, it probably seems a little wasteful to record all those duplicate frames, doesn't it? Fortunately with the FS100's newer firmware versions you now have the option to save only the frames that you're actually shooting.
There's a storage comparison chart for the different shooting modes here:
http://www.focusinfo.com/solutions/catalog.asp?id=150

24p question dealing with capturing

friend shoots movie in 24P.
I get to edit movie.
as far as I know, 24P should be captured at 29.97 and FCP makes the adjustments.
so.
when I capture, I get some firece tracers/zebra stripes on the video. I've tried it 3 different ways and everytime, I output a DVD (uncompressed quicktime) and it looks like rubbish.
help me FCP people! Make me a believer (I'm an AVID guy)

Welcome to the discussions, Baldy! I was an Avid guy for 10 years before I started using FCP 3 years ago. I haven't looked back.
Do you have the "zebra stripse" on your TV/video monitor? Were you watching the DVD on TV or on the computer?
24P already has the pulldown inserted. Just like film shot at 24 and telecined to tape. You may be seeing the pulldown frames. Which is normal. There is also no need to export uncompressed to burn a DVD. Edit in the native format DV. Export Quicktime Movie... with current settings. You gain nothing by "up-rezing" to uncompressed before burning to DVD.
Patrick

Easy Setup for 24p Question

I have footage shot in standard 24p (F5 on the DVX camera)
I will be editing on a 23.98 timeline
I am also working with some 24pA material, so we're planning to use Cinema Tools to convert the standard 24p material for use in the timeline.
In Easy Setup there is one choice for DV-NTSC
And another DV-NTSC 24p (23.98)
Confusing! Especially since I'm going to be editing in a 23.98 timeline. I know that the material on the tape, whether shot in 24p or 24pADV is 29.98; I'm just confused about which of these capture presets to choose
I knew this information at one point but it has decided to either go to sleep or exit my brain entirely.
thanks for any clarification you can offer

Double posted: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1714491&tstart=0

URGENT 24p question

I need to edit this footage for my final due tomorrow night. I shot my footage with an XL2 on 24p 2:3, and in widescreen I am editing o, using final cut pro HD 4.5.
Should i use Easy Setup -- NTSC 23.98 then check the animorphic boxes
or should i use Easy Setup NTSC 29.97

Hey Yoni,
as you know, trying to figure all this out one day before it's due probably isn't the best course of action.
The quick easy answer is... just edit it as 29.97.
As soon as it the footage is recorded on a MiniDV tape, it is 29.97.
The anamorphic is a different issue.
Here's a website that will help you understand the 23.98 issue.
http://www.mandarinpictures.com/stephenzinn/

HDV 1440 x 1080 24P question?

My client has just given me 52 GB of HDV 1440 x 1080i 24P raw footage, on an external drive to edit a short 12 min short film. I’m using my old Power Mac G5 / 2GB memory with FCP 6.0.6 and was wondering what’s best to convert the HDV footage to.
Should I convert to Pro Ress 422, or could I just edit it natively? I’m not sure what my best option. Will my computer handle this? I’m planning to do color correction and some multi-layering with special effects. The client wants to use the short film to enter at local film festivals.
Can anyone guide me in the right direction?
Thanking you in advance

Should I convert to Pro Ress 422, or could I just edit it natively?
You must convert to ProRes. HDV is recorded as Long GOP MPEG2 and is not a viable editing codec.
Link: [Working with HDV in Final Cut Pro|http://documentation.apple.com/en/finalcutpro/professionalformatsandworkflo ws/#chapter=2%26section=0]

16:9 question and 24p question

I shot some footage on a Canon xl2 in 16:9 and in 24p.
Regarding the 16:9. I was wondering how to show 16:9 footage on a 4:3 TV with out it getting streched. Can this be fixed in post?
Also regarding the 24p. the Canon XL2 records in 24p then it uses 2:3 pulldown to record to tape (in 60i)
What is the best way to caputre this in Final Cut Pro HD?

DVDSP implementation of 16:9 is clunky in that you have to set the 16:9 settings all over the place (menus, tracks, project, etc.) So be careful. The manual has a lot of information on this subject, to be sure. I'd set everything in DVDSP to letterbox, by the way, not panscan (which is just a crop unless you somehow have encoded pan-scan vector info into your build) unless you've specifcally protected for 4:3 in your widescreen shoot.
Make sure you set your DVDSP simulator to 16:9 so that you can double check everything with some confidence before you burn.
Don't worry about setting up the DVD player - almost all commercial movie DVDs are anamorphic so most people's DVD players are set up correctly - you just choose the type of TV in the DVD player setup menu and the letterbox is automatically applied if it's set up for a 4:3 TV (do you still use those 4:3 sets over there in the US?)

DVCPRO HD 1080i 24p question

I know FCP does not support DVCPRO HD 1080 24p yet.
But I have played with Cinema Tools. I used the Nattress Cadance plug-in and was able to make a 24p file. It plays the right time in QuickTime but when I bring it into AE it is re-sized to 640x360. Not of much use. I have read the Cinema Tools docs front to back and have been searching for hours with no answers. We are shooting with HVX200 and need to supply a 1920x1080 24p file. Thanks
Mike Schrengohst
[email protected]

This thread on DVXuser might help you:
www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=55065
about half-way down, a workflow is suggested. The resize to 360 pix appears to be only for the QT proxies.
best of luck

24p questions

I am editing a feature-length documentary at the moment, using footage shot from a DVX-100. Everything was shot in 24p "normal", but I have been curious about whether or not the "Reverse Telecine" mode is worthwhile. I've been told that unless one goes to film out in the end, it's up to you.
Otherwise, I've noticed in "Reverse telecine" tests that the footage looks a bit unrefined and decidedly more "video like" than the straight-from-the-tape 24p footage. Any thoughts?
Also, if reverse telecine mode is the best option, do I edit on a 29.97 timeline or 24?

Telecine was the process whereby 24fps progressive movie footage was converted to (NTSC)60i television format. Reverse Telecine does the exact opposite - converts 60i footage to 24fps.
This is only useful if you have a 60i source which started life as 24p. Recent camcorders which have progressive 24fps modes, currently package the progressive frames into a 60i format. For some reason, native 24p format is something the manufacturers are slow to adopt.
24fps is a much-desired mode because 1) it emulates the look of film. And 2) it is not interlaced. Interlacing was a truly horrible hack invented in the mid 20th century to solve a number of problems with television electronics. Nowadays, few display devices display interlaced images properly although 60 fields-per-second does give smoother motion.
Progressive footage is better for digital workflows, visual-effects and looking like film.
SO....
Shoot using a 24fps mode.
Capture your footage with FCP using a 60i project.
Create a reverse telecine setting in Compressor. Perhaps using prores 422
Export all the clips to Compressor.
Batch convert em all.
Now create a NEW project in FCP with a 24fps and import your converted progressive footage.
It's a good idea to check the converted footage in Quicktime player.
If everything has worked you should see....
1) The playback info should report a 24fps source.
2) Each frame should be free of mouse-teeth (images where even and odd rows are from different moments in time)
3) When you single frame step through the footage, the movement should continue. You shouldn't see three frames of movement and one frame the same as the last.

Canon HV20 24p: 3rd party solution?

I'm looking hard at buying a Canon HV20 for 24p work and using with FCE, which I'd be upgrading from an old version (and learning how to use, but that's another story LOL!).
It's my understanding that FCE can't edit the HV20's 24p-format output. I'm wondering if there are third-party fixes for this, either a standalone converter of some kind or a plug-in. It's my understanding that, failing this, I could activate a Windows partition on my new iMac and work with Windows software to edit the 24p stuff, but that is something I'd really like to avoid.

Here are two links that are on the sight mentioned above
60i to 24p workflow for Mac/Final Cut Pro
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?p=1840
Easy Mac Workflow for 720p24 h.264 output
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1967
24p versus 25p FCP workflow sight may answer the real 24p question for those who understand such thing - I really don't.
http://allantépper.biz/sub5k/Stupid-Smart.html
Hope this helps

Stacked SF500-24P and routing question

I'm looking for a stackable L3 switch which can do routing and with PoE and I think the SF500-24P is just right for me but have a question.
Is a stack of 2 of these switches seen as 1 device with 1 outside ip address per VLAN by devices that have this stack as the default gateway? or is something like VRRP active between the 2 stack switches and they both have their own ip address?
Thanks in advance,
Jasper

That is correct. The entire stack seen as one device. once the switches are stacked, there is no need for VRRP, HSRP, etc.. It is all one switch with one IP for management.
HTH

Workflow Question: 24p (Varicam) Masters, 29.97 down converts for offline

I know in part this question has been raised here before, and I know the Cinema Tools method for getting back to 24p... but I would like to discuss briefly the pending workflow on a project I am about to begin with someone who has tackled this before.
I am cutting a feature, shot on Varicam at 24p. The film has already been rough cut in FCP and I am inheriting the project to re-work the rough cut and "on-line" finish the film. The initial editor did not reverse telecine the clips before cutting, so all the clips and the timeline are in 29.97. I know I could finish the off-line using the DV footage, then reverse telecine the EDL to on-line back to the 24p HD masters, but there are a few other issues.
First, there is over 19 hours of original scenes that currently make up a 2 hr rough cut. This cut needs a pretty extensive re-edit before it's ready for the sound designer to step in, maybe 2-4 weeks of work. The FCP project has not been broken down by scenes, just master clips for each reel (yikes!). I am not confident in the audio that is on these DV tapes and I would prefer to work with the original HD source to finish the job, as the audio editing will fall mostly to me to accomplish. This project will also need extensive color timing as well. From a general workflow standpoint, I feel that if I had all the HD loaded, and re-organized by scene that I could work more efficiently to finish all the aspect of this film.
So the nuts and bolts of my question is this. Can I convert both the timeline AND the already logged master clips to 24p so that I can load in the HD as whole reel clips as they currently are logged and refer back to the timeline? I want to work from the existing timeline, but also have ALL the footage loaded in as HD 24p so I can sub clip by scene and rework the cut.
Thanks in advance.

HD isn't as simple as SD...not by a long shot. With SD, we captured offline at 29.97, and then onlined at 29.97. The biggest thing to worry about was that our shoot masters were 29.97 NDF but stock footage was 29.97DF, and that tended to mess up EDLs for the online.
But then comes HD. 720p...1080i...1080p. 23.98, 24, 29.97, 59.94. So many options...things got really complex. Now with HD you really need to know what your deliverable is...even before you shoot. Because everything is geared toward getting that final master. You CAN proceed without knowing that, but then getting the proper master will require more hoop jumping. So, at this point, you need to figure out what you want to deliver and work towards that. 1080 23.98psf HDCAM? 720p 59.94 D5? 1080i 29.97 HDCAM? You have to figure this out.
Editing 24p footage from the Varicam (which translates to 23.98) at 29.97 DV was a poor choice. DVCPRO HD 720p24 isn't even twice the file size of DV. DV is 3.6MB/s, and DVCPRO HD 720p24 is 5.4MB/s...so editing native would have been the wise choice. But that is moot. Moving on.
When I edited a 16mm film...shot on 16mm, telecined to HDCAM at 23.98...I captured DV downconverts that ran at 29.97. I asked the post facility doing the online if I should do it at 29.97, or should I reverse telecine to 23.98...they said stick with 29.97, so I did. Then we changed post facilities and they said I really should have been editing at 23.98...because I have now made the online rather tricky. But this is what they had me do. Export an EDL of the 29.97 timeline. Use Cinema Tools to convert that from a 30fps EDL to a 24fps EDL. Then give them this and the final project. They were able to rebuild the cut, with some issues where I had speed changes, but they did it.
So what you need to do now, is find the place that will be doing the online, and get someone there to get this thing where it needs to be. It isn't as simple as recapturing at 29.97 or 59.94. The footage was shot at 59.94, but with flags set to make it 23.98 when captured. If you had a Kona or Decklink capture card, you could capture it at 59.94, but that format won't match up with the 29.97 EDL...different time base. And you cannot capture 59.94 as 29.97...not unless the footag was flagged in the camera as 720p30.
This is a very complex situation and I have barely scratched the surface. THis is why you need help from an HD expert, preferrably someone from the post facility where you will be doing the online.
Shane

Question for Working in 24P

Hi,
I have a question as I am editing a short film that I shot in 24P. My cinematographer accidentally shot half the film 24P Advanced and half in 24P Standard.
I brought the advanced footage in no problem, but had to use cinematools to convert the standard footage to 23.98.
Now that I am ready to begin editing, what is the best way sequence preset to use in order to bring these two pieces of footage together? Should I edit in 23.98 or 24P?
Any assistance would be much appreciated,
Thanks!
Powermac Dual Core 2.3 Mac OS X (10.4.2) 2GB RAM

i'm always thoroughly amazed at how frequently the "cinematographer" accidently doesn't know what frame rate he's shooting in.
elli, you're already ahead of the curve if you figured out cinema tools. good on ya!
the only sequence timebase to edit in is 23.98 fps. 24p is manufacturer shorthand that does nothing but confuse folks into thinking they're getting something film like from their video camera.
here's good info about 24p (ntsc 23.98 fps) and you should study it if you've not already.
http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html
http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/24p_in_FCPnattress.html
good luck and post back with success. remember, if you drop a clip into your sequence and you immediately need to render, clip and sequence settings are mismatched.
zeb

24P & 30i question

I have a sequence that I'm planning on building and for reasons to lengthy to go into here, I'm commited to keeping it with both 24P clips and 30i clips.
Question is, Are there any settings in FCP that need to be checked/changed if I'm going to be working with 24p clips? The 24p is standard 24p (2:3:2:3).
Any settings critical to other import/export activities?
Thanks for the help,
Dee

I have had to do this from time to time.
You'll want to work in a 29.97 timeline. The 24p (standard) should look just fine. What I remember, though, is there may be rendering for the 24p when you move it around or edit it. If this becomes a nuisance, at least nest the sequences you don't have to play with, so if they are moved along the timeline, you won't have to render them each time.
I hope my recollection is right here. If you have questions, e.mail me.

To 24p or not 24p that is the question...

Hey,
Is it better to create a 24p DVD over a 29.97 one? I shot my feature in 24p. I shot it actually in 24p Advanced in Letterbox mode. Used the Panasonic DVX100 original.
Ideas? Suggestions?

Hi Chris:
Starting a new thread with the same question will not help to get an answer. You have all these threads running with the pretty same problem:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5478317
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5469919
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5487900
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5451416
Alberto

24P question....

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