Capture in prores proxy or H.264

So here's the qusetion, I'm capturing footage from a HD broadcast (from cable, TWC), being that it's already a compressed signaled would it better to capture it as pro res proxy or a high bit rate H.264? ProRES 422, LT, just seems like overkill. Which would give me better qaulity?

appleconfuse, i would like to help answer your questions, and i hope that what i say is helpful to you from a professional that knows how this works. :-) you should never use anything higher quality than h.264 for recording a tv show from tv. its completely ridiculous to use prores to do this for the following reasons.
1.) i work at a tv station, and i can personally testify that tv shows are already compressed into h.264 at my station. so by the time it reaches you its already in h.264 anyways.
2.) once a video is in a compressed format, it is 100% impossible to add the removed information back into the video feed by encoding it in a higher quality format. it is also impossible to make a 1080p video signal into a 4k video signal just by upscaling it.
3.) prores is meant ONLY for creative professional to create content, not for viewing or storing for personal use. this is not what it was meant for. h.264 is a consumer format intended for the everyday use and will be much more friendly for your purposes. ;-)
you are not making the video better in any way at all by encoding it in prores proxy. the compression process they use to send a video out over the internet either on youtube or at a tv station is already highly compressed h.264. i know this because its my job to receive the video signals as h.264 video files and then to compress/encode them AGAIN before they are broadcast.
i hope this is helpful to you and i certainly am sorry to break this news to you. but unfortunately all you are doing is taking up more space on your hard drive and creating unnecessary work for yourself. to clarify, 4:2:2 footage is completely useless to you unless you are actually color grading footage. otherwise you receive zero benefit from it.

Similar Messages

H.264 and prores proxy question

I've read through a ton of posts about proxy and h.264 workflows but didn't find any that answers my specific question.
My raw video from my camera is mp4 (h.264). I understand that h.264 is not good to edit with, so I have a few options. I use a macbook pro for editing so I have been toying around with prores proxy for editing and it makes a difference on RT playback and rendering while editing, so that's good. When I get ready to output my movie after editing, I relink my project back to the original h.264 source files and that seems to work fine.
I'm wondering if that's not the right workflow though. Should I transcode the h.264 into prores HQ or LT and then ALSO to proxy, edit with proxy and then relink my project back to the HQ or LT files to output? Or is linking back to my source h.264 files and outputing the right way to go?
Since the original files must be in the best possible quality that I'm going to get (since they're my original clips), I assume that relinking to them right before output is the way to go but I really don't know much about codecs to know if I'm missing something.
Thanks in advance for the advice.

Thanks for your response. I'm shooting with a Sanyo FH1, mostly in 1080p, but I've scaled back to 720 since 1080 was overkill for what I'm doing to save some space.
The thing I don't quite understand yet is the issue with pointing my project back to the source files after all the editing is finished with prores proxy and just before output. That way, FCP would only have to uncompress the source files to render for final output only one time (besides the initial transcoding), albeit, probably longer than it would be for prores. I'm sold on proxy because it was so much faster to edit with than h.264 and I didn't have to keep any video files after I was finished except my source files....trying to budget hard drive space. I transcoded one file a while back to prores but the file size was more than I wanted to deal with since I only edit on my macbook pro so I didn't try to edit with it. Like you said, maybe just converting to prores and dealing with the space juggling would be the best way to go, or try prores LT to see how the quality is.
Does converting from h.264 to prores buy me any quality or a better final result, or just a cleaner workflow? Don't misread my questions, I'm not arguing, just trying to understand from you guys that know a lot more about this than I do. Making my living as a developer, it's just ingrained in me to understand this one
Message was edited by: kenmoberg (updated macos version)

Quicktime not playing Apple ProRes (Proxy) 1080p video - help!

Hey guys I have a Apple ProRes (Proxy) 1080p video sent to me via Firevilla from a friend in the states - which simply says - "will not play - quicktime does not understand the format and may need additional software." All my software updates have been made. Does anyone know if I actually need a specific ad on??!! Or what is going on here!!??
Many Thanks

Because you're using QT 6.5.2 you can't view all QuickTime content. Quite a lot of pages are now using H.264 video and it can't be viewed using 6.5.2.
Try one of my pages to test your browser plug-in and QT version:
http://homepage.mac.com/kkirkster/California/index.html
The file is about 3MB's. If it plays correctly your browser and QT version are OK.
The plug-in settings can be found in the QT Control Panel (under MIME settings). You can also check your browser preferences for "helpers".

To save time, could I get away with just using ProRes Proxy?

Might be a dumb question. But please play along with me...
I've been battling with FCP-X since it first came out. Beach balls, crashes, failed auto saves, you name it. Sluggishness is my middle name. But I think it might be because I'm trying to force too much quality through my older, less powerful machines and my little firewire 400 hard drive. All three of my Mac are 3-4 years old, all are from the old "Core 2 Duo" era (not quad core processors), and are all maxed out at 4GB of RAM. While I've read that many people are having performance problems with FCP-X even on brand spankin' new suped-up Mac Pros with lots more horsepower than I'm running, I've long thought that my machines and their lack of power by today's standards may be at the heart of my sluggishness problem, especially given that most of the material I work with is shot in 1080 HD. (I've never actually tested it in FCP-X, but I'm assuming that things would speed along more like I've been used to in the past if I would just do everything in Standard Definition 480, but that ain't gonna happen.)
Like many, I shoot most everything in 1080 HD (usually 24p, sometimes 30), unless I'm occasionally shooting 720 HD at 60i for later slowing down to slo-mo.
Here's my question: Most everything I edit is for web delivery, and 99 percent of it is for my own use (not clients). Mostly podcast-like stuff, although occasionally I'll create something for my business website. Most of what I do is talking head type stuff, not a lot of motion (except for the 720/60i slo-mo stuff, which usually has some motion, which is why I shoot it at 60i for slowing down). Most of what I shoot is green screen talking heads, intended to be keyed in front of some innocuous background like some of the generators in FCP-X. I want it to look good. Even great. But given the limitations of power on my machines, I also don't want to invest an eternity in rendering and processing time. The work I'm doing with video just isn't that important. It's mostly for grins.
Until last night, I had been working exclusively in ProRes422 (aka "Optimized"). But last night I shot some footage and imported it into FCP-X, encoding it ONLY in ProRes Proxy. And frankly, I couldn't discern any difference. It looked every bit as good as the 422 stuff I'd shot before. There was absolutely no difference to my naked eye. That said, the footage I shot last night to test this out was not shot in front of the green screen (I'll test that out today or tonight), so maybe the Proxy footage won't key as well. (I've been stunned at how good the keyer is in FCP-X, but up to this point I've only been keying ProRes422 footage, not Proxy.) But really, based on just eyeballing the footage, I couldn't tell the difference between the Proxy footage and all the other footage I'd shot previously that had been imported and converted to "Optimized" ProRes422.
I'm not looking to deliver anything for broadcast television (if I were, I'd for sure use 422). I'm not doing any feature film type stuff. My video work consists mainly of stuff just for me, for my own personal amusement (and for the amusement of anyone who might watch it on the web). It's intended for YouTube, Vimeo, or occasionally (in smaller dimensions than 1920x1080) for deployment on my company website. Mostly, it's just me doing podcast-type stuff. Occasionally I'll shoot and edit something for church, or for friends. I like to think the production values of my stuff tend to be higher than, say, the footage Aunt Delores shot at Uncle Ralph's birthday party (okay, A LOT higher than that!). But my stuff isn't going to air on "Good Morning Flatbush" either (unless, on the off chance it should happen to go viral).
So let me make my question as clear as possible: Could I not get away with just using ProRes Proxy throughout my entire work flow, end to end, never switching over to ProRes 422 even when exporting? Honestly, it has taken hours just to render the keyed green screen footage on a 15 minute video, and just the other night, it took the better part of 4 hours (after it was already rendered) to export a 15 minute ProRes422 sequence to YouTube (and then the darn thing timed out, essentially wasting all my time). I'd rather just stay in Proxy the whole way through if doing so would streamline my workflow without compromising too much quality in the "look" of the video. Based on my very limited use of Proxy (just testing it out last night for the first time), I couldn't tell the difference. Maybe for web deployment, Proxy is all I really need.
Have any of you just stayed in Proxy the whole way through, never switching to 422 even when exporting? Might this be an acceptable work flow for some of us, especially those of us on older, less powerful machines? Is this a viable solution? Do any of you work this way? What's your level of satisfaction?
Thoughts?

A lot of what I'm shooting is being shot on a Canon XA-10. Some (and certainly all of the 720 footage, but some of the 1080) is shot on a 7D. And still more is shot on either an iPhone 4S, or even on a Flip Ultra (720p, 30fps).
Most is shot on the XA-10.
What I'm trying to avoid is the excessive render times (doesn't the ProRes 422 footage have to render as well?), and the ridiculously long times it takes to export. Would all that not be reduced significantly by sticking to Proxy the whole way? And what would the trade-off be? I mean, I honestly can't see any discernible difference. Maybe I will when I try to pull a decent key. (Haven't gotten that far yet in my Proxy experimentation.)
Of course, editing in Proxy and outputting using 422 requires that FCP-X encode to BOTH when importing, right? Doesn't that add yet another bit of time to the overall process?
I'm trying to streamline, and to reduce the overall amount of time I'm spending doing this stuff.

Problem exporting Prores proxy files in CS6

I have a bunch of Apple Prores proxy files which were created from RAW DNG files in DaVinci Resolve. I have completed an edit of a music video with these files in Premiere Pro CS6. However when I try to export the files from the timeline, the exported file seems to have linked to all the wrong clips, and the whole video seems to be a random mish-mash of clips. The timecodes of the clips all seems accurate, and they display perfectly within CS6 and in quicktime.
Wondering why the clips display fine on the timeline, allowing me to edit the video in-sync, however will not export properly?

From here: InfoPurge Programming Tips, What is StackHash?
What to do if you get a StackHash?
First configure Problems Reports and Solutions in Control panel to Check for Solutions automatically and Automatically send more information. Then check if there are fixes available for your application. If there are then download and install them.
Make sure your Window Operating system has all the latest service packs, security updates and other fixes installed.
Most applications have a Check for Updates feature. Use it to make sure you have the latest version of the S/W. Alternatively visit the company website and check for new versions and patches.
Run an up-to-date virus checker on the machine and fix any issues. If a virus is detected in the application then you may need to reinstall the application.
Re-install the application. Through Control Panel \ Programs \ Uninstall a program. Right click the application and click Uninstall / Change. This should launch the installer which may give the option to Repair the installation. If not then you will need to uninstall and reinstall - make sure you have the original installation discs available before uninstalling.
Disable any Virtual Drive software that may be hooking in to the application. If the problem goes away, contact the developer of the Virtual Drive software.
Disable any Virus checkers on your machine (temporarily) and run the application again. If the problem goes away, contact the developer of the Virus Checking software.
Check if the problem is reproducible (after a reboot). If it is, then attempt to narrow down the exact steps that cause the fault, write them down and contact the support department for the company that developed the application providing as much information about the crash and what you have done so far to attempt to resolve the issue.

Quality of Clip captured using ProRes and clip converted to ProRes

I have captured the same clip in both HDV 1080160 and ProRes 422.
After editing the HDV version I export it using QT Conversion using the compression type "Apple ProRes." I then use the standard Compressor "DVD: Best Quality 90 minutes" preset unaltered. It looks fine in the Compressor Preview window. I then import the resulting files into DVDSP, and the quality is good.
After editing the ProRes version I export it using QT Movie using the current settings. I then use the standard Compressor "DVD: Best Quality 90 minutes" preset unaltered. It looks fine in the Compressor Preview window. I then import the resulting files into DVDSP, and the quality is bad.
Both clips are "ProRes" when imported into Compressor, and they both look fine in the Compressor preview window. The difference is that one was captured in HDV 1080i60 and converted to ProRes using QT, and one was captured in ProRes and exported as a QT Movie. Surprisingly, at least to me, the clip originally captured in HDV and then converted to ProRes looks much better than the clip originally captured in ProRes when they are imported into DVDSP. Both .mov files are compressed using the same Compressor preset, and the preset is unaltered.
I assumed the clip originally captured using the FCP ProRes preset would yield the better quality, but this isn't the case. I've tried capturing using ProRes 422 HQ, and the results are the same. I must be missing something, but so far I cannot explain it.
Thanks

I have tried at actual, full screen, using 1080p30 size from the original compressed to 4mbs (something my system can handle without blinking), 720p30, etc. etc. etc. Nothing stops the jumps. Even the activity monitor shows only 5%-15% processing being used by QT and/or FCP.
I plan to pull my old G5 out of the closet, it runs 10.6.8 and is still rock solid for video editing in FCP7. If it plays smooth on that 8 year old system then I know it's Mavericks. I'll try that tonight. It floors me though why the original 1080p30 will playback perfect via FCP and Motu, but once I turn of external monitoring and just try to play it via the preview monitor it is jumpy as **** and then the exported file does the same thing. So strange. I even deleted prefences of FCP and that does help with screen playback initially, but it always gets jumps in it after playing for a while.
I knew I should not have started using Mavericks and I HATE FCP10.

Capturing HDV-ProRes

Hello,
I I have been for some time been able to capture HDV from a XHA1 to ProRes without any problems. Recently I captured with the same camera HDV to DVPal and since then I can't capture HDV-ProRes anymore. I says "Can't initialize..."
I have trashed the preferences... but that didn't help.
I you have any helpful ideas - I would be more than happy to hear them!
Best regards,
/Harald

You got it! Here's a great article for you. There's a link at the end if you need Pro Res Easy Setups for Canon and Sony cameras.
http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/capture_hdv_prores_fwbalis.html
And a second article if you've already captured as HDV and want to export as Pro Res:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/hdv_timeline_to_sddvd.html

How do I transcode 1080p60 clips to ProRes Proxy or something similar?

Hello!
I have some footage shot at 1080p60 using the Panasonic PX270 (AVC Ultra - LongG25 50Mbps 10 bit, 4:2:2). When I try to edit a 4 camera multicam my computer stutters and lags like crazy. Can't get much more than 5 seconds even on 1/8 resolution without it starting to freeze/lag. Back in the day, I used to transcode everything to ProRes Proxy, then edit, then transcode to ProRes 422 and be done. I'd love to do the same here but I'm not sure how to get a proxy codec at 1080p60. The one's I have on my mac as options in AME/Prelude only go up to 1080i60...no 1080p60. I also have FCP but it's so old now that it doesn't recognize this new codec. Any ideas on how to do this? Does ProRes even have a 1080p60 proxy/422/HQ option? If so, how can I get that?
I have a 2011 iMac 27 inch 3.4Ghz i7, 16gb ram (1GB VRAM), and I'm using a Samsung SSD as my scratch drive. Running Premiere Pro CC 7.2.2 on OSX 10.8.5

Hit the Firefox Button>Options>Advanced>Network>Settings. Check "Manual Proxy Configuration" See Screenshot.

ProRes Proxy compared to HDV?

I've just done a few tests, and ProRes Proxy seems to give exactly the same quality, or better, as the HDV I converted from. Is this the case? Both had the same settings.
I'm doing a complicated 19 track multiclip (original source HDV) - which actually works when the HDV is converted to the ProRes Proxy (Michael Trauffer's suggestion). I'm trying to determine whether or not there is any point in finishing off the project in ProRes HQ -- given the final output will be mainly for the web (HD)?
Ben

ProRes HQ is overkill. ProRes LT or ProRes 422 might be better. Proxy is an offline, meaning low quality and not meant for final quality, codec. It might look good on a computer monitor now, but there is artifacting. I have compared it to ProRes 422, and I can see the difference. If you can't, no worries.
If this is for the web, just use ProRes LT.
Shane

Understanding ProRes Proxy to ProRes

Trying to get my head around the proxy thing. In FCP X I have - create Optimized Media & Proxy Media Checked. So I am doing all my editing in Proxy right?
So now it come time to export my project. I use compressor and select ProRes 422 (regular quality) and it appears to work BUT takes 8 times the length of my clip to transcode! So it is basically taking the proxy, seeing what I've done to it and then adding those changes to what version of the clip? the ProRess Std verions?
Just wondering how Compressor / FCP X goes from a ProRes proxy version to a Std ProRes version or HQ or 444 version - what is actually happening?

Proxy media is a proxy to the original media. FCPX always retains the original media.
When you edit the proxy, the edit is only applied to the proxy data, not the originals. When you export (cmd-E), frame rate is set in the project, and the output quality (eg ProRes, ProResHQ, etc set in the export dialog box. The output file is created by re-applying the edits in the timeline by rendering those to the original media as per these settings.
If your original media was 720p60 H264 (from AVCHD ingest), for example, you could set the project to 30fps (730p30) and export to ProResHQ if you liked. This would require your Mac to decode the original, apply the changes, and recompress to ProResHQ. However long this takes is however long it takes. But your Mac will be 'snappy' while performing the edits, because the proxy file is small and low on CPU during edits.
If your mac is a little faster, and you're happy with standard ProRes quality, then creating optimised media on ingest will slow your mac down a bit, but exporting to standard ProRes will be much quicker, as clips, transitions can be rendered in the background while you fiddle around editing, and when you're ready to export most of the heavy work is already done, so it will be much quicker. But your Mac must be fast enough to edit in standard ProRes quality.
Hope this makes sense.
Chris.

Prores Proxy?

Is There a way to transcode to proves 422 proxy in prelude

Hi Rob,
Thanks for your post!
Below are the steps to transcode a clip to ProRes Proxy.
When you install Prelude, the Adobe Media Encoder will be installed together. So launch AME first;
Click '+' button on the top right corner to create a preset; Please see screen shot below
   3. Click 'Video Codec' dropdown list and then you will see the 'Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy)', select it;
   4. Click 'OK' button;
   5. Launch Prelude and open ingest dialog;
   6. Select format 'Quick Time' and the preset created at step4;
   7. Use this preset you could transcode a clip to ProRes Proxy.
Hope this will be helpful to you!
Thanks,
Jenny

ProRes to ProRes Proxy White Border?

Hello,
Just wondering why compressor adds a white border to the right side of the image after conversion from ProRes to ProRes Proxy? I'm sure this is 'User Error', but was hoping someone could help me out here- is this unavoidable, or possibly a settings mistake? Thanks for any advice you can give.

I see the border after the conversion in Compressor, on the output file (the ProRes Proxy). I should also state that the original file was PAL, then converted in a Terenex to NTSC. Maybe that has something to do with it? Although I don't see how since the Compressor conversion is NTSC to NTSC.
There is no crop applied- I did fool around with it a bit and discovered that a 640 x 480 crop gets rid of the border, although the aspect changes.
I may just wait to see what the editor says about it before I worry about it. Thanks for responding.

V1u 24pA capture to Prores not resulting in a 23.98 file

Hi,
I just installed FCS2 6.0.6 and I am trying to capture footage shot in 1080pA24 from my Sony V1-U Camcorder.
Here are my Video Settings:
Sequence Preset: Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) 1440x1080 24p 48 kHz
Capture Preset: HDV-Apple ProRes 422 (HQ)
Device Control Preset: Sony HDV FireWire
These are the settings recommended by every source I can find for capturing 24pA video from the V1-U. The problem is that with these settings or any other variation I have tried the video ALWAYS comes in at 29.97 with obvious interlace artifacts instead of the 23.98 progressive that I want.
This is maddening because EVERYONE says that FCP will "Automatically" remove the 3:2 pull-down. But it's apparently not doing that...
I even tried an "Easy Setup" from http://www.moviola.com/hdv_prores designed SPECIFICALLY for capturing 1080pA24 from the V1-U
I found a couple other people on other forums that had this SAME problem. Unfortunately the topic was hijacked by someone with a different problem and no one ever solved the one for which the topic was created. So please don't do that to me

Take a look at your capture settings in Audio video settings. Highlight the preset and select edit. see if you can select "remove advanced pulldown"
It is available on the dvcProHD settings. not sure why you've chosen HQ instead of straight pro res. My understanding is HQ is for greater than 1920x1080.

Workflow for uncompressed HD captured to ProRes (after capture)?

I've got an Intensity card coming in today for use with a Canon HV20.
There is an Apple tech note on 1080p24 HDV workflow for the HV20 (using Compressor to deinterlace and remote pulldown):
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306389
What is the workflow going to look like with a 'live' capture from uncompressed HD to ProRes 422?.

Well, I connected the HDMI cable to the Intensity card and the HV20 and brought up FCP6.
I set FCP6 to "Intensity HDTV 1080i 59.94 - Apple ProRes (HQ). Made no changes on the HV20.
I opened the 'Log and Capture' window and could immediately see the camera's video.
I captured and it created a ProRes file that I could double click and open in Quicktime. Looked incredible!
Looking at the clip's info inside of FCP6 I see 1920 x 1080, 29.97 fps, Apple ProRes HQ, 26.5 MB/s, square, upper (odd).
Next steps are to remove interlace and pulldown (I presume I'll use Compressor for this)?
If I am successful at de-interlacing and removing the pulldown, how can I except to verify this using FCP6? Will the field dominance change from uppper(odd) to something else?
How can I tell, by looking at some settings, that I have completed my task?
Any comments on techniques/tips for reverse telecining will be welcome, as I'm very much of a newbie with FCP.
Also, is there a keyboard shortcut, or a way to create a keyboard shortcut for the 'capture now' button?
BTW - as my RAID has yet to arrive, I'm writing directly to a 2nd Western Digital RE2 drive, with no visible dropouts for the few seconds I've recorded thru a 10 meter cable.

MY o MY! HDV capture to ProRes over firewire!!!!

Man, I thought it was impossible, but apparently not... 6.0.2? added this feature?
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/poisson_chris/hdv-prores.php
Gonna hurt those Intensity sales I'll wager, and I'll bet that the activity monitor on the CPU goes tilt during the process too...
Jerry

OK........ More good news Jerry
http://www.apple.com/support/releasenotes/en/FinalCut_Pro_6.0rn/
Sony HVR-V1 HDV Tape-Based Camcorder Support
Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 is compatible with the Sony HVR-V1 HDV camcorder, which is capable of recording 1080p24, 1080p25, and 1080p30 footage. You can capture natively or capture to either the Apple Intermediate Codec or the Apple ProRes 422 codec. You can also output back to the Sony HVR-V1 camcorder using the Print to Video command.
To natively capture 1080p25 or 1080p30 footage, you should use the HDV 1080i50 and HDV 1080i60 Easy Setups, respectively. Your footage will retain its progressive scanning even though it will be stored in an interlaced format. You can capture 1080p24 footage using the 1080i60 Easy Setup, but your captured footage will retain 3:2 pull-down in this case.
For transcoded capture of 1080p24 footage, 3:2 pull-down is removed during transcoding, resulting in footage stored in the 1080p24 Apple Intermediate Codec format or the 1080p24 Apple ProRes 422 codec format. You can also capture 1080p25 and 1080p30 footage to either format, although Easy Setups are not included for these formats. In these cases, your captured footage is stored in the 1080p25 or 1080p30 Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple ProRes 422 codec format.
Here are the recommended workflows for capturing from and outputting to the Sony HVR-V1 camcorder with Final Cut Pro 6.0.2:
24p/60i on tape: Capture to the 24p Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple ProRes 422 codec, then output to the HVR-V1 camcorder in 24p/60i mode.
25p/50i on tape: Capture to the 25p Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple ProRes 422 codec, then output to the HVR-V1 camcorder in 25p/50i mode.
30p/60i on tape: Capture to the 30p Apple Intermediate Codec or Apple ProRes 422 codec, then output to the HVR-V1 camcorder in 30p/60i mode.

Capture in prores proxy or H.264

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