Clipping Path vs Alpha Channel

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but wondering which is better for outlined images (no soft transitions, just hard outline.)
I've used both and don't see an advantage to either EXCEPT when converting an InDesign file to PDF. Files with PSDs with clipping paths seem to make much larger pdfs than same file using PSD with alpha channel. Not important for a final press file, but when I have to email screen proofs, then it's a big deal.
Anyone care to weigh in? Thanks.
Ringo

Hi, there,
I found this discussion during a search for alpha channels vs. clipping paths for clipping (for a job I'm working on), and thought I'd offer my own feedback based on my own experiences w/ similar files. I can't really offer a printer perspective, however, although we do work closely with many and also print film fairly regularly for local printers who are not yet Direct-To-Plate.
For what it's worth, I use paths, myself, and save the file as a TIFF. Then I use the Object: Clipping Path menu in InDesign to select the path (I don't specifically designate a path as an actual clipping path in Photoshop anymore, as sometimes an image will have more than one path to isolate different elements).
I find that alpha channels don't look very good when used in InDesign. They're just not that smooth/precise, in my admittedly limited use.
I've uploaded a quick sample to http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/Xiebinrui/Alpha_vs_Clipping.jpg -- it's pretty self-explanatory, but the left side shows the bottom of an image using an alpha channel created from the original clipping path (cmd-click on the path to create a selection and then click the "create channel" button in the Channels tab, which automatically creates an "Alpha 1" channel), with the original clipped version on the right. I've tried adjusting the threshold and tolerance in InDesign, but it just always looks bad.
I also haven't used the behemoth Photoshop EPS format since my QuarkXPress/Mac OS 9 days (even then, it eventually became possible to use TIFFs w/ clipping paths -- I could finally see my photo correctly instead of with the horrible Quark EPS preview).
Anyway, re: alpha channels, maybe it's just that I don't know the right way to use them, but they don't seem to be very smooth when importing into InDesign (I was working on a job yesterday and today for which I had to download hi-res images from the client -- many of which used alpha channels instead of actual paths, but they're used on white backgrounds in InDesign, so I just didn't use the channels).
So, anyway, I personally use and recommend paths (vector masks, as Artdirectorringo mentioned, seem to work fine, too) as opposed to standard pixel-based alpha channels, in general, if you're going to be placing the file into InDesign.

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Anyone experience why a Photoshop file with a clipping path will not preview when brought into Quark Xpress unless I save the preview as a tiff?
I use photoshop 7.1.

From desktopublishing.com's review of QuarkXpress 4
"The ability to control a picture's appearance in several areas. For example if you want to make a specific part of an image transparent, simply specifying the part using the clipping paths, the alpha channel that is embedded in the original picture, or the white area of the image. It can also read clipping paths in either TIFF or EPS format. Trapping tools and supports most popular color spaces, including Hexachrome, are also included."
and according to Wikipedia, Xpress 4 was released in 1997, eleven years ago with 4.1 coming two years later.
So, while I was just guessing thinking back over the last decade of versions, I was not far off, and I can't remember ever having a clipping path problem with tiffsthat version. Of course, if you didh't save the clipping path as a Clipping Path in Ps, then you would have a problem. That has been fixed now too.

Photoshop file to Shake -- alpha channel question

I've been staring at my screen for an hour wondering about this, even though I know it must be simple, so any advice is greatly appreciated:
I have a short video clip of a syringe with no needle. I want to add a VFX "needle" as a composite in Shake. I drew the needle as a .tiff file in Photoshop. I added an alpha channel in Photoshop, so I have R,G,B,A channels in my .tiff file drawing. The alpha channel has a white shape that corresponds to the needle drawing and black for the background. I was thinking that my alpha channel will mask out everything except the Photoshop "needle."
I bring the Photoshop needle file into Shake and set up my Shake script as follows: "Needle" into the left hand input of an Over node and Syringe video into the right-hand input of the Over node.
I was expecting to get just the needle "floating" on top of the syringe video clip, and I would position it to connect up with the syringe. What I got was the "needle" with its square white background floating on top of the syringe clip. My alpha channel from Photoshop did not mask out the white background.
But when I load the needle into the viewer by itself and put my cursor over it and hit the "A" key, the alpha channel is plainly there -- a white area in the shape of the needle and black everywhere else.
Also, in the Node View window, when I put the cursor over the needle and hit the "A" key, the thumbnail clearly shows the alpha channel, a white area in the shape of a needle and black everywhere else.
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Jim

Thanks much, Zebulun. Toggling premultiply worked. In a side experiment, I later saved my Photoshop image as a .psd file rather than .tiff and when I brought that one into Shake, it came in with its clipping-path/mask working without using premultiply in the Over node. Not sure what the difference would be in how Shake treats the two file formats, but they both achieve the same end result.

Enable clipping path

I am trying to write a JS that will enable the clipping path (a Photoshop Path that will always be named 'Path 1') of a selected picture. Even though I'm a script retard, I imagined even this would be fairly easy to write but it isn't. All I'm trying to do is automate the chore of opening the Clipping Path dialog, changing the path type from 'None' to 'Photoshop Path', and clicking OK.
I have read Adobe's scripting manuals, picked apart the samples, tried out the Wiki, and trawled the web and this forum. Is there a similar script out there that I could adapt? I would be grateful for suggestions - kind ones, please!
Alistair

A quick search show that the property clippingType of ClippingPathSettings can be set to ClippingPathType.PHOTOSHOP_PATH. As possible parents for the ClippingPathSettings, I get the list EPS, Image, ImportedPage, PDF, PICT, and WMF -- I guess Image is the one for you.
So that would come together as
yourimage.clippingPath.clippingType = ClippingPathType.PHOTOSHOP_PATH
Oh, wait -- you can have more than a single path in your PS image. Let's see. ClippingPathSettings also has a "appliedPathName" -- "The name of the Photoshop path or alpha channel to use as a clipping path." How do you know which paths it has? "photoshopPathNames"! ("Array of string; A list of the clipping paths stored in the graphic.")
All of this while I'm not behind a CS3 machine and never having used this method :-) I guess that you skipped one step in your description, where ID would ask you
i what
path you want to use. If you are confident there's always a single path, you could do something like
yourimage.clippingPath.appliedPathName = yourimage.clippingPath.photoshopPathNames[0];
to select the first (and only) one in this array.
Shameless plug alert. I could locate (and copy!) this information quickly without using the ESTK help, because I cheated and created an HTML version of the JS help, complete with hyperlinked cross-references and an index. You can download it from http://www.jongware.com/binaries/indesigncs3jshelp.zip if this sounds interesting.

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Thanks.

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EXPORT WITH ALPHA CHANNEL

I need to know how to export a clip with the alpha channel intact. I keyed a green screen shot and exported it, but everytime i open it in final cut it has a black background. Need help asap it is the last shot I have to do for a music video that has to be done by monday, thanks.

Are you sure your alpha is there? (check by pressing "a" with the mouse over the view window).
Did you try telling FCP that there is an alpha channel? If you did "Send to Shake", Final Cut Pro doesn't expect that the QuickTime it's getting back will contain an alpha channel (It's meant to match your sequence settings). You might try dragging the output directly into the browser to re-import it and see if it recognizes the alpha...
As a matter of fact, maybe you can check in QT Player, load it into QuickTime Player, cmd-j, click on the video track and play with the transparency setting. Try Straight Alpha - that should lead to the background going white - then you'll know its coming out of Shake properly and concentrate on getting FCP to recognize it...
If all else fails (I did just try it here and it worked), maybe try a TIFF or TGA sequence?
post back,
Patrick

Why clipping path postponed from a photoshop in indesign at operation of addition of the new channel by means of work path doesn't work

why clipping path postponed from a photoshop in indesign at operation of addition of the new channel by means of work path doesn't work

Please elaborate the issue and Supply pertinent information for quicker answers:
The more information you supply about your situation, the better equipped other community members will be to answer. Consider including the following in your question:
Adobe product and version number
Operating system and version number
The full text of any error message(s)
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Alpha Channel Not Showing On Video Clips

I have imported several video clips that I know have Alpha Channels, but when I import them into the timeline/sequence, the ALPHA Channel is appearing as a black background. What am I doing wrong or what setting should I check??

There was a known issue that I noticed over a year ago that was discussed in this thread:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4831495#4831495
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no, at least not last time I looked.
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http://www.avid.com/content/7952/Avid%20CodecsLE120Macpkg.zip
sme tips quoted from http://dvinfo.net/conf/archive/index.php/t-78006.html
it is important to move these components out of the root Library and put them into the User Library. That way they won't cause any conflict during startup.
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The rest work just fine with compressor and seem to add support for:
Avid 1:1x (AvidAV1xCodec.component)
Avid D100 (AvidAVd1Codec.component)
Avid DNxHD (AvidAVdnCodec.component)
Avid DV (AvidAVdvCodec.component)
Avid Packed (AvidAVpkCodec.component)
Avid Meridian (AvidAVDJCodec.component)
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Everything except Avid D100 codec (AvidAVd1Codec.component) and the AvidAVUICodec.component.
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ymmv

Exporting a move clip with alpha channel

Hi there,
I’m trying to export a move clips with alpha channel.
I’m trying to export an animation with Premiere CS5. I made an animation of a rotating object in Maya and exported it with alpha channel as tiff images. Then they are edited with Photoshop to give them a drop shadow.
My problem is this. Can I export this tiff animation with the alpha channel?
My plane is to use move clips over backgrounds in a game – depending on the result there are different animations playing on top of several different backgrounds. There for the objects has to have a transparent/alpha channel over the backgrounds.
Again the reason for this is the complexity of the game and to make the game looking as real as possible. I’m hoping for some help here to make my plan possible
…thanks

Thanks alot for the help.
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…any ides mate?

No Method of Batch Export for Clips with Alpha Channels?

Good morning,
As many a flustered editor has eventually discovered, in order for FCP to export sequences with alpha channels to a 32-bit format, the timeline has to be un-rendered at the time of export, or else the transparent parts will appear black in the outputted file. This sort-of makes sense if you know how FCP and render files work, but in a perfect world I think I'd have designed the export interface a bit differently. Now that I think about it, I'm actually working in an Animation (Millions of Colors +) sequence, so converting transparent areas to black makes no logical sense at all.
Anyway, I have several sequences that I would like to export as 32-bit TGA QuickTime files, preserving their transparency. If I Export Using Compressor, the process results in pre-rendering of the sequence, turning the transparent areas black. The same problem occurs if I export QuickTime reference movies from FCP and open them directly with Compressor.
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Zap

Thanks, Andy, "Batch Export" eventually did the trick!
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Thanks again,
Zap

After-Effects to FCP - Best format to use to export clip with alpha channel ?

Hello All;
I have created a 10 second video in After-Effects that I want to use in FCP. It seems that I am unable to render out to a Quicktime movie with both the video and the alpha channel (I can only render to one or the other). Could you tell me the best method to get a short video from AE to FCP ? What is the best format to use in AE ? Thanks.
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Animation codec with colors set to Millions +. The plus is your Alpha channel.
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White outline on outside of clipping pathed images brought into InDesign

Hi. I am on a PC using CS6.
I created some clipping paths in Photoshop on a bunch of images and most of them have a white outline (even in Overprint Preview) shown in InDesign.
I thought I was being careful not to be too close to the edge in order to not get that white outline. I created the paths using the pen tool and path palette.
Please take a look at the screen shots below and I was wondering if anyone has this problem or if there is something I am totally missing.
As you can see in this photo the white outlines are around part of the box and most of the separate pieces of chocolate. This is a screen shot from InDesign.
This same image is below shown in Photoshop with a black rectangle placed behind it and I do not see the white outline. The outline shows in the PDF too when exported so I don't know what to do and I worried it will print this way. Never had this problem before..

Willi, I used your suggestion and I didn't know what I was doing, but it seemed to have worked. I followed that tutorial from that link I posted earlier. I guess I didn't have to worry about a background image. I wonder why that happened, I've never had this problem before.
I used a Photoshop image rather than a tif file. I tried using a Photoshop file earlier on in the game and had the white edges still, but did not use the Alpha channels.
Thanks all for your help and awesome time-saving tips!!!

Clipping paths

This question was posted in response to the following article: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/indesign/cs/using/WSa285fff53dea4f8617383751001ea8cb3f-6f23a.h tml

Can I combine alpha transparency with a clipping path on the same image in InDesign?
When you invoke the Object > Clipping Path command in InDesign, it makes a path according to the basis you choose from the Type menu in the Clipping Path dialog. If the image already contained transparency via Photoshop layering, or an "alpha channel," that transparency, is of course, also preserved. So yes, you can have native transparency plus an InDesign-generated clipping path on the same image.

Problems with Photoshop Alpha Channels

Hi all
Got a job where I want to use alpha channels to cut-out some images in Photoshop and then put them into an ID frame with a black background. Want to use alpha channels rather than a clipping path as I need the edges to be feathered (have applied 2 pixels of feathering to the selection in Photoshop before saving it).
When I do this and drop it into Quark it looks good but when these images are dropped into ID and then the alpha channel is turned on, with the default Threshold and Tolerance settings, it doesn't look good. It looks like a rough approximation of my alpha channel, all the fiddly bits and bezier curves in the selection have been smoothed out and the feathering has gone. Playing with the settings doesn't really seems to help either. If I turn on the alpha channel in the import options when importing then it comes in as expected but I have quite a few images already in the document that I need to turn on the alpha channels for.
Both PS and ID are CS3. I've tried saving the images both as PSD and tif. Anyone got any ideas? Seems odd that when I import an image with the channel on I can't go to the clipping options and tweak the settings.
thanks,
Iain

Thanks for your reply Bob. I've confused things with my terminology I think. We're drawing a path round the image, using bezier curves where appropriate, making that work path a selection (feathering the edge in the process) and then saving the selection (as an alpha channel) and then using the feathered alpha channel in Quark/ID to knock-out the background. Not keen on using a PSD with a transparent background at the moment as these are just test files while we show the customer what it will look like if we do cut-outs. We are making a couple of different alpha channels per image, with different settings, which would mean multiple files if we used your method I think. Maybe once we get the approval from the customer we could use PSDs as you describe but I was just wondering why the options for affecting alpha channels after importing the image aren't working as I expected.
Iain

Clipping Path vs Alpha Channel

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