CMYK RGB confusion

Recently I have had to get myself involve in work for print and coming from a digital background I have a very a very tenuous grip on the working of getting material ready for print.
Recently while scanning a forum on a totally unrelated subject I spotted these two quotes from two different people.
'unless you have experience preparing images for commercial print and your client has specified CMYK for offset printing DO NOT supply CMYK images - stick to RGB output.'
'yes i wouldnt use CMYK images.
because most/all printers have there own convertion algorithms so the printer will convert a CMYK image back to RGB then convert it back to CMYK.
so you will lose a bit of quality'
This confused me as I have always been told to supply CMYK. I have a very vague recollection that this has been mentioned to me before by a client but this is so vague it might as well have been a dream and was before I started getting involved with print. I just wondered if anyone could clear this up for me.
Thanks for any help.

Jim,
It's a bit of a free for all out there. The best course of action is to have a discussion with the printer you plan to use and get on the same page. They may insist on RGB or a certain flavor of CMYK. In general, though, I find that if I supply CMYK files, most printers usually just sends those files straight through, without doing any conversion. If they convert them and the color gets whacked, it may come back to haunt them. Some printers know how to handle and convert RGB files properly, and others do not. I've done a fair amount of this, and personally, I would always prefer to supply CMYK files so I control the conversion, but I'd have a discussion with the printer first or look for clear, precise specs (and preferably their custom CMYK profile) on their website (which many don't provide).
That's where the contract proof generated by the printer can come in handy. If you insist on a contract proof, then sign off on the color, placement, layout, etc, the printer has to hit that target on press within reasonable tolerances, otherwise you are eligible for a free reprint. Those tolerances can be fairly liberal, but decent printers usually come very close to matching their own proof.
As Rick McCleary mentioned on another thread on this forum.....we are neither 'here' nor 'there', but somewhere in between in the evolution of digital printing. That won't change fast, I'm afraid. Too much legacy equipment, approaches, etc.
Lou

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Hi,
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Lots of things to learn in this trade. Welcome to hell ;P
Gustavo (Posting from quite sunny Madrid)

CMYK RGB Color problem

Hi,
I've got this problem that I can't understand and I don't know what to search for when looking for the solution. So hope someone can help. This is the problem.
I made a logo design in Illustrator and I used Pantone colors. The document is in CMYK color mode. As I need to make some other documents with this design I copy/paste it to a new CMYK color mode document.
Now the colors look mor pale. The object now still has the same pantone color and CMYK color code but hasn't got the same RGB color code anymore. But when I set this RGB to the values of the original document the colors are still very pale.
I really can't figure out where the problem is. Hope you understand what I mean.
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Color profile settings....
Mylenium

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I am asking is their a way i can make them look the same, but yet again when it goes to print its going to look different.
If any one can help me out,
many thanks.

Yeah thats the thing, she told me that in the past they have had designers send them a digital and print proof with having the same colours, which i can't believe.
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Hi
Yeah, I know good title.. maybe not. Anyway:-
I've received an eps (source unknown) which when I open it ( it needs to be changed - though NOT the colour), it gives me the following message:
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What exactly does this mean? (ie: the eps was not created using Illustrator?)
Is there any way to see which of the two (it's a logo) colours have been converted (and therefore are likely to not be accurate)?
Is there any way to see if the eps has a colour profile embedded - do I assume it doesn't?
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Thank you.

What exactly does this mean? (ie: the eps was not created using Illustrator?)
It contains most likely embedded images that are in RGB. This can happen pretty much everywhere when an app was used that does not support color profiles or the user actively chose to not conform colors. Can be anything from PS printer drivers to QuarkXPress...
Is there any way to see which of the two (it's a logo) colours have been converted (and therefore are likely to not be accurate)?
Without a frame of reference, you will never know 100% which one is wrong.... You could assume that "crooked" percentages indicate converted colors, but without profiling, even existing CMYK values may be adjusted depending on how specifically they need to mimic transparency effects and such stuff. Spot colors might also get converted to odd values and you'd never know... There's no simple conclusive answer here.
Is there any way to see if the eps has a colour profile embedded - do I assume it doesn't?
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What will Illustrator (CS5) be doing when it converts.. referring to "Edit > Color Settings" profiles? If yes...
What do you recommend I set in the Color Settings to preserve the original CMYK percentages?
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Mylenium

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Hi there.
Looking for some advice on Freehand
I have just started producing picture books and have been
told by the printers they should be outputted as CMYK. Originally I
created all the images in fireworks and can only export as RGB.
This in its self isn’t that much of a problem as the printers
can convert to CMYK during the printing process, but obviously when
the pics are converted the colours tend to differ slightly.
My question is this: If I get freehand, will I be able to
design and export in CMYK so the colours used in the original will
hold true when they go to print?
Thanks
G4briel007

> fireworks and can only export as RGB. This in its self
isn?t that much of a
> problem as the printers can convert to CMYK during the
printing process, but
> obviously when the pics are converted the colours tend
to differ slightly.
> My question is this: If I get freehand, will I be able
to design and export in
> CMYK so the colours used in the original will hold true
when they go to print?
RGB > CMYK conversion will always change colors. Colors
like bright greens, oranges and violets will suffer the most. This
is simply because rgb color space is much wider than cmyk.
So, the colors will change in any program and it is best to
choose the one which has the best control over conversion. I would
not necessarily use FreeHand because the color management is
inadequate although it can be adjusted fairly well. For print KDS
must be used (Preferences > Color).
The problem is that FreeHand cannot import all the effcts and
although some can be reapplied they do not work in CMYK oputput.
The color conversion, however, is quite simple after opning
png file select Name All Colors from the Xtras > Colors menu and
then convert all colors that appear in Swatches palette to CMYK.
But this applies only to outline objets and text. If FreeHand
renders objects with effects they remain rgb.
Maybe saving as psd and making the connversion in Photoshop
is a better choice but this will work only if your original files
are about 300 dpi because resampling will scale only outline
objects and text leaving effect values like intact.
It is maybe better to use FreeHand for cmyk output but then
you cannot use raster effects. Or you can use Fireworks but you
have to set the resolution to 300 dpi to avoid problems, this of
course create large files. Also you cannot preview your art in CMYK
in Fireworks.
So, there are options but make a few test files and send them
to printer before starting to make the actual work. Usually
printers are just pleasd if the technique is tested beforhand
ensuring that problems do not come up just before the deadline.
Jukka

Encapsulated CMYK/RGB/LAB workflow good idea, bad idea?

Hi, I haven't worked a lot in CMYK but do so now. I usually get files in CMYK that were converted by someone somehwhere from the RGB files (Camera profile), to make the files "look like they look in print and not completely different". I sometimes get the original files, which I prefer since I can easily correct the colors and jump to LAB for blurring, sharpening, masking, blending etc.
Today I tried the following workflow (and was surprised it worked):
1. Open the file (RGB 8 or 16Bit)
2. Dublicate the Background Layer
3. Convert the dublicate to a Smart Object (SO)
4. Double click the SO and convert it to LAB.
5. Work a bit in LAB, save and close.
6. Back in RGB do further work on it and jump back into the LAB SO for further changes.
7. Turn the dublicate layer on and off, to see the difference compared to the Background Layer.
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I'd like to know wether this workflow has any unexpected dangers, that I'm not aware off, or if it even makes sence to anyone but me. Also, can/should I stuff the whole thing into a CMYK file as a smart object (CMYK containing RGB containing LAB)? I'd like to be able to work on the final CMYK file for final adjustments (color/contrast) via Curves but I might have to change something from an earlier step.
Thanks for your opinion and advice.

I always work in RGB mode as working with CMYK is horrible and very limited. If the file is required to be CMYK, but you still want all your adjusment layers etc. intact (and they are in RGB ofc.) just select all your layers, make smart object, then set image mode to CMYK.
For all intents and purposes the file is now CMYK, but you can edit it in RGB by going to the smart object. No problems with this. You can also have other documents like Illustartor-files as smart objects. Very convenient.

Grayscale to RGB Confusion

Hi guys, please try this:
1) new image, grayscale
2) fill (say 96,96,96)
3) image->mode->rgb color
The pixels will be (95,95,95) and (96,96,96) when they should *all* be the same.
It also happens when you paste a black & white image into an RGB document because even though it has three 8-bit channels (by definition not grayscale) Photoshop decides to make it grayscale.
Is there a way to correct this ?
Thanks.

Hi,
My Color Settings are set to Monitor Color, and the Proof Setup is set to Monitor RGB.
I don't see any settings for dithering.
When I say Black & White (as opposed to Grayscale) I mean a 24-bit RGB image that has only gray (R=G=B) pixels. If I paste that into an RGB document I get pixels that are not consistent, if I paste it into a grayscale document the pixels are consistent but become inconsistent when I convert that document to RGB.
What should I do ?
Thanks for trying to help.

CMYK RGB confusion

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