Color management book recommendation?

Hi folks,
I've been using Photoshop since version 2, but only as a violinist might relax with a bit of keyboard playing. My main gig over the years has been multimedia programming and 3D animation, both for onscreen delivery in the wonderfully sane world of RGB color.
I now have to turn to print in a big way, and to difficult print at that. I have to create a book cover for a print-on-demand job a Lightning Source. The image has lots of contrast, and LS imposes a no-more-than-240% ink coverage limit in CMYK, which means I'm going to have to massage the dark areas of the image without destroying the beautiful color tonalities of the front cover painting.
So color management is suddenly mission critical, and I'd like to dip my head in the theory in a serious way. If any of you print jockeys could recommend a source on the subject, I'd be grateful. I know Adobe Community Help has videos and article references, and I will peruse them gladly. But what I am looking for is a definitive theoretical groundwork text – something like an O'Reilly book on color management for print media that I can sit down and read cover to cover.
Many thanks,
Richard Hurley
Grass Valley MultiMedia

s-RGB="Satan RGB" I didn't want to mention this in the string because....... As mama used to say "Don't frighten the horses."
The s-RGB gamut is so small and incompatible with traditional CMYK that clipping and shifting is a given.....hence the heavy use of GCR (grey component replacement) and UCR (under color removal) in the printing. GCR is the enemy of the type of rich saturation that we see in this woman's portrait, but complex browns, purples, greens, and reds are very easily changed with even the slightest inattention or miscalibration during a typical press run (Forget about the blues). Swapping out the pigments with neutrals is designed to protect one's image from colorshifting as the inks get slabbered onto the paper. That is why finding a reliable and competent printer is such an important part of the process. Unfortunately, they are a dying breed. Also, sadly, even if one carefully manages the GCR and the UCR (to remove the extra saturation as this "Lightning" place is suggesting is really no guarantee that their print settings (PPDs) will not ovverride even the PDF file itself when they rip it.
That is the reason I suggested the importance of finding a reliable print house or else just making one's file "photo perfect" (without trying to accommodate the print house and then force the printer to reproduce a quality rendition at the proof stage. It is like playing pool on a moving train...all about relativity. Hence my caveat.
Your adjustment looks great....looking at the pdf of your curve adjustments, by the way. Still the presses haven't had their way with her yet. And that is the endgame. If we did not have to farm stuff out we could set our GCR and UCR in Photoshop along with our calibration process built to our own press specifications and forget about it. But the inmates do run the asylum. There I go, scaring the horses.
Something I remembered. A conversation with Bruce and Russell P.Brown (1997?) whom, if I remember correctly had some powerful new toys (Gee, how did he get a hold of THAT stuff???? LOL) One of his projects had to do with scanning the environment (my term for it) and he had images that were plotted at full size on a large plotter (Not QUITE the Grand Canyon but HUGE). The discussion/debate revolved around Russell's ability to reproduce the image without swapping the format and/or geeking with the gamut problems inherent in CMYK conversion. I didn't get it, really, and I do not think that Bruce got it...well let us say he was openly dubious...still Russell's very large printout was spectacular and Russell, being Russell was too excited to give a pixel. Late night standoff! Walking away, I realized that with newer pigments that were available from the digital printing world, I would have to stay on my toes when it came to discussing any print end format because the traditional CMYK printing inks were being seriously upgraded with the newer electrostatic and gelatin print technologies. (especially with Kodak and Agfa being such big players with the Creo purchase of Scitex and Agfa being Agfa). It seems now that we are in a whole new world and I am loathe to proclaim the ancient truths of CMYK as we traditional printers knew it. I have seen some work coming off of these newer printers that transcend the CMYK gamut. (It is interesting to think that the age of "cold type printing" lasted about twenty years before it began to be obsolete. One of the bonus points of geezerism (if I may use the term loosely) is the perspective of time warp speed of tech obsolescence. It seems sometimes that halfway through an answer to any given question the answer becomes quaintly out of date.
I can say that any equation depends on isolating the variables and finding those constants that will endure. Best example..... the half-life of Adobe 1998 as a transcendent color space. I am now convinced that ProPhoto has a fuller and more malleable gamut for the newer devices as well as the offset presses that will be with us for a while longer.
So I guess, my point is that one has to plant the flag somewhere. Pick any locus and relate to that to build one's foundation (s-RGB or 72 ppi for example) and know that in the shifting sands of a million minds, there will be hordes of wild indians waiting to excoriate the status quo without understanding the very underpinnings of the process.
One thing I have noticed in the fora is the very vituperation is inversely proportional to one's experience. That is one of the ways that people like Mssrs. Fraser, Brown, McClelland, and even you stand out. The dialog is temperate yet radically outrageous. I am not sure sometimes if the science has not turned to theatre. Hah!
I rant, but towards a point that recedes as I approach it.
Namely this:
be forgiving towards the quirks and kinks in the Adobe approach, the product, as does all revolutions, breeds evolution. Though each of their programs converts your average PANTONE color with a different ink percentage.
One does appreciate an open mind. Thanks for that.
Charlie Copeland (no not that one!)

Similar Messages

Color Process Book Recommendation

I am interested in buying a process color book. I have found a few on-line but would like some people's feedback (pros and cons) before I settle on one (or more than one). I am leaning towards Tintbook. Thanks.
1. Process Color Manual, 24,000 CMYK Combinations for Design, Prepress, and Printing By Pat Rogondino
http://www.amazon.com/Process-Color-Manual-combinations-prepress/dp/B000W91SD2/ref=sr_1_1? ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253242238&sr=8-1
2. Color Index 2: Over 1500 New Color Combinations. For Print and Web Media. CMYK and RGB Formulas by Jim Krause (I am assuming this is the updated version, no?)
http://www.amazon.com/Color-Index-Combinations-Media-Formulas/dp/1581809387/ref=sr_1_1?ie= UTF8&s=books&qid=1253242261&sr=1-1
3. Complete Color Index by Jim Krause
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Color-Index-Jim-Krause/dp/1600613330/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=b ooks&qid=1253242283&sr=1-1
4. Tintbook (coated and uncoated versions)
http://www.tintbook.com/
5. Process Color Book "A5 Perfect Bound".
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/process-color-book-a5-perfect-bound/4481740

Swatch books might be good for inspiration as you muse about color, but they're not much more useful than a box of crayons. Buying a swatch book in the hope that it will give you magic formulae for creating CMYK colors is an exercise in head-banging.
The problem is that CMYK is a device-dependent color space. IOW, the device that prints the CMYK build (offset press) determines the final color.
The 21st century version of swatch books is something like Pantone's GOE system. Each color gives you values expressed in L*a*b, a device-independent color space. Assuming you know your final CMYK output destination (and have an accurate profile of that), you can get a very close match to your expectations.

Iphoto books -- color management & sharpening

I have recently decided to try to print photos from a trip to New Zealand as an Apple iPhoto photo book. (I am using the latest version of iPhoto 6.XXXX.) I have a few basic questions that I'm having a hard time confirming answers to: (1) I read on a discussion forum somewhere (not sure where) that iphoto photo books are color managed to sRGB color space. Can anyone confirm this? (2) To keep my photos in sRGB, I am saving them from Photoshop as sRGB files. When I import the images into iPhoto to make a photo book, I am pointing to them only, rather than having the files recopied into the iPhoto database (save space on my hard drive). I assume this should work to preserve sRGB color space? (3) I do not plan on making any edits of photos in iPhoto itself, although some will presumably be resized by the program given that they will exceed 300 dpi. (4) For sharpening, I plan on saving all my files at 300 dpi and sharpening based on an 11" print. (I'm going to print an 8 1/2" x 11" book.) For photos that are smaller than full page size (i.e., 2 or more photos per page), I assume they'll get downsized in iPhoto, so sharpening won't be perfectly maximized, but this should work pretty well, I hope? Any other suggestions/tips about a work flow? I looked at Amazon for an instruction book on iphoto but the only one I found (the "missing manual" by pogue), only has part of a chapter devoted to iphoto books. If someone tells me that this book, or another, will answer all of these types of questions, I'll buy it. Oh yeah, one more question, is there different quality paper used in the single side photo books vs. double sided photo books (both hardcover). From what I could tell, the single sided paper must be thicker because it permits less photos per page. Any other differences? Thanks in advance, Howard

Howard:
Welcome to the Apple Discussions. Apple does prefer the sRGB color space. As far as dpi, just provide the largest pixel dimension file possible. If you want the files to fit the frames in each page exactly the crop to the 4:3 ratio beforehand. However, you can use non 4:3 files. If one is added to a frame it will be scaled to fill the frame, losing some of the image on the larger side. To get the entire photo in the frame Control-click on it and select the Fit photo to frame option.
I believe the same paper is used for single or double sided. Here's what Apple sent me regarding book materials and quality:
I contacted Apple and asked for information that I could pass on. Here's the reply I received from Apple:
Thank you for contacting the Apple Print Products Customer Service.
I understand that you would like to know the printing process that is used and the color mode the files should be in, so you can better advise users in the iPhoto forum.
iPhoto version 4 or later, allows you to import and print files through the Apple Print Product service as RGB, grayscale, or CMYK color space. JPEG files with RGB color space are recommended for best results.
While iPhoto 2 can import files of various formats, including RGB color, grayscale, and CMYK, this version requires JPEG files with RGB color space when printing photos and books.
For more information regarding iPhoto 2, please visit the following article:
iPhoto: Color, Black and White Prints Appear Garbled or Distorted
For more information regarding iPhoto 5, please visit the following article:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=165501
Here are some of the technical specifications for the books, cards, and calendars. I hope this gives you an idea about their quality and form.
BOOKS
All iPhoto books are printed using acid-free paper for long-lasting image quality. The photos are printed at a high resolution (300DPI if you use iPhoto 6). There is no external modification--such as sharpening or contrast adjustment--of the photos; what you see in the application is what is printed in the book.
Hardcovers Books
The cover is hard-bound and covered in linen. You select the linen color during the book-ordering process. The hardcover books have a solid, stiff binding that is glued and crimped. The internal pages, measuring 8.5 x 11 inches, are printed on McCoy 100# Text Gloss paper stock.
Softcover Books
The softcover books come in three sizes:
- Large 8.5 x 11 inches
- Medium 6 x 8 inches
- Small 2.6 x 3.5 inches
All of the softcover books have internal pages that are printed on McCoy 100# Text Gloss paper stock. The large softcover book has a white cover (Kromekoteplus Folding Cover, 16 point) with a cutout on the front that reveals the cover-page photo in the book. The covers for the medium and small softcover books have the cover image and title printed directly on the cover. All of the softcover books have a glued binding and feature a thick cover of McCoy 100# Cover Gloss paper stock.
CARDS
All cards are printed on McCoy 120# Silk Cover paper stock. The postcards measure 4 x 6 inches, and the greeting cards measure 5 x 7inches.
CALENDARS
All calendars measure 8 x 10 inches and are printed on McCoy 100# Silk Cover paper stock.
To ensure the best print quality, we have chosen to use Kodak NexPress technology. The press uses a dry toner, which is fused to the surface of the paper. Please see NexPress' site for more information:
KODAK NEXPRESS 2500 Digital Production Color Press
I hope you find this information helpful in answering questions on the iPhoto forum.
Do you Twango?
TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.
I've written an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.

Color management in Aperture books

After making a book, I should export it as PDF converting images to the color profile provided by
the print service. Which is the correct way to do it in Aperture 3 ?
Opening the print menu from inside an Aperture book we get the standard
dialogs under "Color matching" (where you can choose to leave the color
management either to the printer or to ColorSync) but there is also an "Aperture"
dialog where you can choose a destination color profile (and also whether to
apply black point compensation, but no option is left as regards the rendering intent).
Which is the difference between the two dialogs when printing the book directly to a connected printer ?
And which is the difference when saving as PDF ?
In a test done printing to PDF a small book it looks like that the "Color Matching" print dialog
seems to have no effect on the final PDF.
The "Aperture" print dialog does have some effect (depending on the choosen destination profile ) but
I get far big sizes for the PDF (example: 150 MB versus 23 MB for the PDF straight without using
the "Aperture" print dialog). I have no clear explanation for this huge size increase, but it surely
cannot be used to submit a full fledged book to the print server (it would give more than 1.2 GB
in a 40-page book).
Is there any resource dealing with the PDF export settings for books in Aperture 3 ?
Thanks,
Simone

It looks like this is driven by the content and might be browser dependent - http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/quickstart/color_correction_as3.html
However, I'd try disabling hardware acceleration to see if that makes a difference. I wouldn't be surprised if using the GPU altered the way this works.
How do I disable or enable hardware acceleration?

Color Management - Training DVD wanted - Recommendations?

Following my recent problems with colour management at my printers, I need to get my designer and myself up to date with the latest principles of colour management and in particular as they apply to ID CS3.
I have found the following on the internet - Colour Management Essential Training at www.lynda.com A DVD course would be most useful as the designer and I could watch it together. Anyone care to recommend this or another one?

I hope you are making progress with your color management issues.
I know you have gotten a lot of information in the forum from various perspectives. Much of the focus has been on the monitor accuracy. It is important to have a good monitor.
But a good monitor will not guarantee a proper conversion to CMYK. It is my belief that the color being off on your last print job is more the result of a faulty conversion than anything else.
I don't want to jump to conclusions and blame Photo Paint. Try the following:
1. In InDesign, right click on the image. Go to Graphics: Image Color Settings. The profile will be "Use Document Default". If you click on the pull down menu, see if there is a profile name above "Use Document default" If there isn't, the image is "untagged." Go to step 2.
2. Open the image in Photo Paint. This app will have some way of measuring CMYK % values. Go to the very darkest area of the image and read the CMYK values. This is the "black point" of the image. Knowing this can help determine the CMYK color space of an untagged image.
Here is more color management advice (hope it helps):
In InDesign, the default is to "Preserve CMYK numbers". This means that any placed CMYK images do not undergo a conversion to a different CMYK when you output a PDF.
This is standard practice in the print industry, but there is much debate about this. To illustrate what preserve numbers means, you can use View: Proof Setup: Custom, in InDesign. Under "Device to Simulate", try selecting different CMYK profiles.
Each time you do this and hit enter, you will notice the color appearance changing on-screen. What is happening is this - the CMYK file number values are not changing. But as you choose different print conditions (newspaper, web, sheetfed, etc) you can see how the color can shift, sometimes quite dramatically.
This is why choosing an ideal destination CMYK is so important. If you choose the wrong one, there is no way you can properly anticipate the print color, even if your monitor is accurate.
As far as Photo Paint goes - I don't know much about it, and I'm not sure what its color management capabilities are. If you do a lot of image editing with this program, it needs to have the proper color management policies in place. You may consider moving to Photoshop eventually, if you plan to do a lot of photo adjustments and manipulation, because it is very compatible with InDesign. Even so - it is not necessary to convert images to CMYK in either of these applications. It is much easier to let InDesign handle the conversions when you output the PDF.

A new Book: Color Management for Digital Photographers

Ted Padova and Don Mason have published a new book: Color Management for Digital Photographers for Dummies (ISBN 978-0-470-04892-4).
As the back cover of the manual states "This book is packed with examples to guide you through understanding color basics, correcting brightness and contrast, getting the exact tone and hue, and creating perfect prints - in full color, of course!" (with the tools available in PSE 4 and 5).
I had the luck to benefit from the excellent experience and the gracious help of Don Mason for a color/brightness adjustment problem in a Dafodill photo that I did not know how to solve on my own. I look forward to learn much more from this book.
Probably other PSE users could also be interested in this book.

Yes, I've tried all of the options: Printer manages color, PSE manages color. All are the same dark prints.
On another conversation on this forum, I read the following. Very discouraging to think that Adobe knows of this problem but won't give me any tech support because too much time has lapsed.
I don't know what "plugs" are--sounds like this user figured out a way around it.
Any advice?
Thanks!
Fran
Re: Color mismatch EpsonR800 and Elements 6
Adobe has admitted that there is a color management issue with PSE 6 for Mac. I have an Epson R1900 and I am now getting acceptable color-managed prints by allowing the Epson Printer driver to manage color management (ie; color management in PSE 6 turned off). The Epson Photoshop Plug In also works well with PSE6 and ICC profiles; however, I have yet to solve 2 problems with this particular plug in: (1) How to get the program to capture 3rd party ICC profiles and (2) how to print borderless prints. If anyone has seen a user guide for this particular plug in, I would be grateful to know how to download it.

Color management in Photoshop Elements...

Hello all
I know this is an Apple forum, but I also know many of you use Photoshop Elements as well, and I think there is a wealth information here.
So, I am very perplexed about something in PSE. I currently have PSE3 for Mac (although the version should not matter for my question).
My question has to do with the color settings in PSE preferences. As you know, one can choose No Color Mgt., Limited Color Mgt. = sRGB, or Full Color Mgt. = Adobe RGB. When I choose full color mgt., overall tones are VERY red. When choosing limited color mgt., colors are slightly red, and no color mgt., colors are fairly neutral. This is all by default. I know how to clean up the color casts, but for general printing, where should I be? I typically only print 4X6 or occasionally 8X10, nothing professionally. When printing, what is the ideal, or preferred Source Space? I have found that if the source space is the same as how the image is tagged, things look pretty good. I also keep the Print Space set to my monitor settings which is the iMac profile. I suppose the issue is that I do not want to have to constantly correct the reddish tones for every photo I manipulate in PSE, although I typically do.
So my basic question is this: What settings are you using in the PSE print dialog box that give you the best looking prints, i.e., source space, print space? How do you color manage you photos? And, what are your color settings in preferences?
Many thanks in advance…

mikwen:
If you compare the sRGB and Adobe RGB color profiles with ColorSync Utility you'll see that the Adobe profile is much wider. I understand it is used for high end CMYK printing or similar. The Adobe profile gives me a much darker onscreen image. Haven't printed with it in quite a while so don't remember what the output was.
Apple uses the sRGB profile in their books and other printed products. So I've setup PSE to use the sRGB profile and set my monitor to sRGB but with a 2.2 gamma. That seems to work for me.
I don't know which camera you have or what color profile it embeds but the Canon's, and others, have a camera profile that is very close to the sRGB. If you installed the software that came with your camera it probably added the camera's profile to the system and you can view it with ColorSync Utility.
Do you Twango?
TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.
I've written an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.

Color management tech specs

Do they have any color management and image quality advice anywhere
for the new books?
I already know how I would set them up, just would like to see something from Apple.

Tom:
Here's what Apple sent me when I asked them about book media quality:
I contacted Apple and asked for information that I could pass on. Here's the reply I received from Apple:
"Thank you for contacting the Apple Print Products Customer Service.
I understand that you would like to know the printing process that is used and the color mode the files should be in, so you can better advise users in the iPhoto forum.
iPhoto version 4 or later, allows you to import and print files through the Apple Print Product service as RGB, grayscale, or CMYK color space. JPEG files with RGB color space are recommended for best results.
While iPhoto 2 can import files of various formats, including RGB color, grayscale, and CMYK, this version requires JPEG files with RGB color space when printing photos and books.
For more information regarding iPhoto 2, please visit the following article:
iPhoto: Color, Black and White Prints Appear Garbled or Distorted
For more information regarding iPhoto 5, please visit the following article:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=165501
Here are some of the technical specifications for the books, cards, and calendars. I hope this gives you an idea about their quality and form.
BOOKS
All iPhoto books are printed using acid-free paper for long-lasting image quality. The photos are printed at a high resolution (300DPI if you use iPhoto 6). There is no external modification--such as sharpening or contrast adjustment--of the photos; what you see in the application is what is printed in the book.
Hardcovers Books
The cover is hard-bound and covered in linen. You select the linen color during the book-ordering process. The hardcover books have a solid, stiff binding that is glued and crimped. The internal pages, measuring 8.5 x 11 inches, are printed on McCoy 100# Text Gloss paper stock.
Softcover Books
The softcover books come in three sizes:
- Large 8.5 x 11 inches
- Medium 6 x 8 inches
- Small 2.6 x 3.5 inches
All of the softcover books have internal pages that are printed on McCoy 100# Text Gloss paper stock. The large softcover book has a white cover (Kromekoteplus Folding Cover, 16 point) with a cutout on the front that reveals the cover-page photo in the book. The covers for the medium and small softcover books have the cover image and title printed directly on the cover. All of the softcover books have a glued binding and feature a thick cover of McCoy 100# Cover Gloss paper stock.
CARDS
All cards are printed on McCoy 120# Silk Cover paper stock. The postcards measure 4 x 6 inches, and the greeting cards measure 5 x 7inches.
CALENDARS
All calendars measure 8 x 10 inches and are printed on McCoy 100# Silk Cover paper stock.
To ensure the best print quality, we have chosen to use Kodak NexPress technology. The press uses a dry toner, which is fused to the surface of the paper. Please see NexPress' site for more information:
KODAK NEXPRESS 2500 Digital Production Color Press
I hope you find this information helpful in answering questions on the iPhoto forum."
Do you Twango?
TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.
I've written an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. It's compatible with iPhoto 08 libraries. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.

System-wide color management

I work in a place where we get files from a variety of sources– anything from a MS Publisher file produced by a volunteer organization to InDesign files produced by professional graphic designers.
We've found that the same file can look totally different, depending on what program we print it from. For example, we got a PDF in that was created in InDesign. I placed in in InDesign so that I could combine it with another piece of art and printed it and the images looked flat and had a yellow cast. If I exported it as a PDF and opened it in Photoshop and printed it it was sharper and it lost the yellow cast.
I need to set up our system so that whatever the source of the file, out printer, (Konica-Minolta biz hub), will give us what the customer expects.
Of course, we have no control over the computers the jobs are being created on, and they're sure to be set up differently.
We also have different programs that we work out of. We can print straight from InDesign, we might save an InDesign file as a PDF so that we can bring it into a program called Printshop Mail and add addressing and other personalization. Printshop Mail likes RGB images better than CMYK.
Of course, we also work in Illustrator.
Is there a book on how to set up and color manage a system with hardware and software from a variety of vendors?

if you want to to do any faithful Conversion(s) to monitor space(s), target space(s), or print space(s) — you will FIRST need to use embedded profiles or Assign the correct profiles (if the profiles are missing)
when you are handed a 'problem' file, open it, and determine if you are using the embedded profile, or unknowingly Applying your own default working profile, or manually Assigning the wrong profile...ultimately you need to use (ie, Apply, Assign) the correct source profile to your file (that becomes a guessing game if the profile wasn't embedded or noted for you)
until this is understood from every possible angle, you won't get good consistent monitor or printed proofs (unless the file happens to be in your default working space or it has already been converted to your proofing space)
I recommend giving this a thorough read: www.gballard.net/psd/cmstheory.html

Color management workflow for beginners..

I am making a movie. I have several hundred clips, shot over a period of almost 5 months. Indoors, outdoors, morning, afternoon, mid day etc. I have gained experience with my Panasonic HMC 151 over the months, and during this time used a variety of settings. I will also use still photos, and use some computer generated graphics made in Daz3D Carrara. All in all - I have a lot of material which look very different.
When layering my clips in After Effects, I want to do it right, and not paint myself into a corner.
When compiling my scenes (compositions) I also want to do it "right".
Most important to me is to get a coherent look and feel. This is the main priority. Later I might wish to change the overall color if I find out I want my movie to look more like a movie than a "video show". For example, I have shot some scenes late in May at noon, ans some scenes in the afternoon in September, and they belong to the same dialog where people talk to each others.
The target media is DVD for home TVs.
Any links to workflows and step-by-step guides (video tutors) on basic approaches on how to avoid the big mistakes is very much appreciated!
ingvarai

ingvarai:
Color Management in indeed an important aspect, but from your description, it seems that you should be concerned with "color correction" first.
Color Management is about getting reliable and predictable color rendition. It's not really about defining the "look" of your project. If your shots are not properly exposed, for example, Color Management will only make it more reliable to assure they're not properly exposed. Color correction is all about fixing those problems, or stylizing the overall look. If two takes don't intercut well, for example, then you have to correct color balance, exposure, so one matches the other.
After Effects includes a ton of effects which can be used for color correction, including Levels, Curves, Hue/Satuarion, etc. And it also includes a streamlined color correction plug-in called Color Finesse. I think the Color Finesse documentation is a good starting point, regardless of what you end up using. If you go to the folder in which After Effects is installed, and look into the "Effects" folder, you should see a folder called Synthetic Aperture. The Color Finesse manual should be inside that folder.
Also, After Effects Help has a section on Color correction and adjustments. It includes a number of links to other resources.
Mark Christiansen's book After Effects CS4 Visual Effects and Compositing Studio Techniques is very recommended.
As for the Color Management workflow, there's a specific white paper on the Adobe web site on this very subject, but I am not sure that's a good starting point. Instead, I think the AE help page on Color Management is better to get your feet wet, and then go through the white paper. Again, there are several links to other resources in the AE Help page about Color Management.

Printing with HP B9180 and Photoshop Elements 8 and Color Management

I've got a bit of confusion about certain settings in the printing process and I've posted a rather long discussion of my 'issues' and confusion. I hope someone can give me some guidance here. I've seen a lot of these issues addressed in many places but I can't seem to find an integrated response. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read and respond.
Color Management Questions
My problems started when I was getting pictures that were too dark from my HP 9180 printer after having gotten very nice prints for a long time. I had obviously started to do something differently inadvertently. The only thing I think that is different is that I got a new 23 inch monitor, which does produce much brighter on-screen images. So, I started to do some research and know just enough about color management to be slightly confused and have some questions that I hope someone can give me some help with.
Equipment Background
I use both a Canon 20D and a Canon PowerShot SD600 camera. Both have the default color space as sRGB, although the 20D can be also set as RGB.
I also use Photoshop Elements 8, where there are a variety of settings possible for printing.
My monitor is an HP S2331, whose color space is sRGB and cannot be reset to RGB (I think) except for temperature; the default is 6500K.
My printer is an HP Photosmart Pro B9180 Printer, where there are also a variety of settings possible.
I’m running XP-Pro.
Here’s Where I Get Confused
Everything I have read about color management (various web sites, forums, books, etc) says to have the image, monitor, and printer all in the same color space.
Everything I read about PSE 8 (same sources) says to set PSE 8 to ‘Always Optimize for Printing’ under Edit>Color Settings in order to get the best prints. This displays photos based on the Adobe RGB color space.
I am taking pictures in sRGB, and telling PSE 8 to process them in RGB by selecting ‘Always Optimize for Printing’. Is this something I should be concerned about? Should I reset my camera for RGB?
Further, by selecting ‘Always Optimize for Printing’, I am setting PSE 8 for RGB while my monitor displays sRGB. Is this an important issue or is it also much ado about technicalities that an amateur should not worry about? It does violate the ‘keep them in the same color space’ rule.
Next, when I go to File>Print and get the Print window and then do the Page Setup and Select Printer, I then go to More Options in the lower left of the window. Under the More Options window, I select Color management and select Photoshop Elements Manages Colors. Next, there is Image Space, which is fixed and not subject to selection from a drop down menu.
I understand that this is the image space of the image I took with my camera and that information is embedded in the image. Correct?
Next, there is Printer Profile. But, from what I have read, this is where the IEC profile of the paper being printed on is supposed to be selected, isn’t it?
Shouldn’t this more appropriately be called Paper Profile, or Printing Media Profile? Further, this drop down menu appears to be somewhat erratic, sometimes showing all of the paper profiles I believe are loaded, sometimes not. It also shows listings such as Working RGB-Adobe RGB (1988), Adobe RGB 1988, Dot Gain 10%, 15%.... along with a lot of paper profiles. Aren’t those profiles unnecessary here?
I’ve used both Relative Colorimetric and Perceptual Rendering and am happy with either one.
Next, when I go to Printer Preferences, in order to “…disable color management in the printer preferences dialog”, under the Color Tab, I select Application Managed Colors from the Color management drop down menu, and also have the option of selecting ColorSmart/sRGB and Adobe RGB (1988).
Is there any time when I should use either ColorSmart/sRGB or Adobe RGB (1988)? If I were staying with my camera’s sRGB setting, given the fact that the monitor is sRGB, would the appropriate selections be ‘Printer Manages Colors’ and ‘ColorSmart/sRGB’?
Finally, under the Features Tab, I go to look for the same paper I selected under Printer Profile (Question 4 above). If it is one of the pre-loaded (by HP) profiles, it is there, but if it is a profile I downloaded, say for an Ilford paper, it isn’t listed, and I need to guess at an equivalent type of paper to select.
Is there any way to get that listing to appear under the Paper Type drop down menu?
I know that this is a long post, but it helped me to clarify my ‘issues’. Thank you for any and all suggestions, answers, guidance and help.

RIK,
Some printers have long names, esp. HP printers, and PSE gets ":confused." In control panel>devices and printers, right click on the default printer, go to printer properties, and rename the default printer to something short, e.g. "Our Printer." That may fix it..

How do I get color management options in PSE9?

I have been trying to print pictures on an HP printer and when I do they come out fairly red and pink. When I go under more options under printing and select color management the only option that I have to adjust is print space. I have a PSE9 book which shows that I should have color highlighting, image space, rendering intent as options but they do not appear. I have tried many different solutions but nothing has helped, same results. My file formats are in RAW but I also tried JPEG which ended with the same result. I was thinking of reinstalling the software but wasn't sure if I would lose all of my files.
Thanks,

TXGB Packer a écrit:
Sorry, I meant color handling. However this is the screen that I was talking about. The only option that mine shows is image space. I want to know how to get the rest of this information to show up. I believe once I get this fixed I should be able to make prints with the correct color balance.
Do you mean 'color editing or correction' rather than 'color management' ? Correcting the color balance may be done in either of the quick, guided or full mode. If so, which mode do you use ?

Color Management

Though color management is very important when using Photoshop some aspects of it though is a waste of money for me. You see I'm like 10% of the men is the world am a little colorblind. This does not mean I do not see colors I see color quite well. Perhaps my color world is a more pleasing one then yours. I only calibrate my displays using web test pages and software tools. Perfect color on a screen has little value for me. People also have different taste when it comes to color when it comes for images many prefer over saturation then true life like looking images. Even when it come to black and white images. I have even heard people criticise Ansel Adams image as not being right. Ansel of course was creating art not mer real look pictures. Most of us have see Ansel Adams's images in books and print. If you have not seen a print made by Adams's himself you have not seen what he is famous for.
Being colorblind I do color correcting more by the numbers then by trusting colors my eyes see. I may transpose numbers from time to time I can still see them and use them for fixing color problems. I also have problems understanding many articles written about fixing colors when they state you fix image by finding neutral gray areas in the image. While that is true if the image has a color cast those areas will not be gray till the image's colors are corrected. Anyway I do numbers better then color. When it comes to art colors used is up to the artiest and their vision. Still I want my images to look good for people with normal color vision they look good in my world too. Ansel did color too but BW was where his love and ART is at.
Photoshop is also a toy and can do a great job with numbers for you. Using the gradient tool and square images you can get perfect black and White and color gradients. Using these you can see how Photoshop is able to blend thing. When you add to this blend if gray with its sliders that can be split you will find you have more the a toy at hand.
Playing around with Photoshop can be very educational here is a little example.
Simple gradients created in ProPhotoRGB 16 bir color and saved for the web in PNG-24 converted to sRGB.
Now to blend them and animated gif is not going to heck it for the web. CS6 does some video and color mangement what will it do with 16bit ProPhotoRGB???
How well does this web sit embed video??? only allows some web sites
how about a link to mine http://www.mouseprints.net/old/dpr/BlendingModes.mp4

Hi craigpop1,
So we can better assist you, please let us know what operating system is on your computer (version of Windows or Mac OS X), as well as what type of paper you are planning to print on.
If this is a time-sensitive matter, additional support options are available at Contact Us.
Did this answer your question? Please click the Accept as Solution button so that others may find the answer as well.

Need help with color management

I am looking for someone to help me. Please!
I am looking for help with Photoshop/printer not printing correct colors.
I have: Windows 7, Photoshop CS5, Photoshop Elements, HP Pavillion Laptop, new Okidata C530dn color laser printer
Previously I had a Canon Pixma MP620 and a gentleman from another forum gave me the correct settings for printing on photo paper and colors were perfect. I now have a OKIdata C530dn color laser and have started a business printing business cards and greeting cards, etc., and I do advertisements on a freelance basis.
I will be working a lot with cardstock or cover stock 65-110 lbs paper. I have an old OKIdata 2024e at work, and the colors are much better with that printer than my new personal one. I have tried matching the settings of that printer to mine to no avail. I have finally gotten the color close, but not quite. When I print on my Canon injet the colors match and print perfectly.
I have tried every setting variation that I can think of to get the color correct with my new OKIdata. I have to get the colors correct or my new business will go under because I can't match colors for my customers. I am a self taught Photoshoper and a novice so please bear with me.
Using Okidata PCL. Also have PS
Color settings in Photoshop:
North America General Purpose 2
sRGB 2.1
U.S. Web Coated Swop v2
Dot gain 20 %
Dot gain 20 %
Preserve embeded profile
Preserve embeded profile
Preserve embeded profile
engine: Adobe (ACE)
Relative Colormetric
Tried RGB color mode and CMYK color mode, no difference
Printer settings:
Photoshop manages colors
sRGB 2.1 Printer profile
Relative Colormetric
Print setup:
Letter
Multipurpose tray
Weight: printer settings-default (when I used heavy setting for cardstock it printed green instead of the color light blue, so that was a start to the right color)
Job Options:
Hight Quality
Color: No color matching
Printer preferences in Printer properties:
Color management
Device: Display 1 generic PnP monitor AMD M88og with ATI Mobility Radeon HD4200
ICC Profiles: Generic PnP Monitor (default)
Advanced:
Windows Color System Defaults:
everything under this tab is set at System Default
I have gotten the color close, but colors are dull. I have tried an adjustment layer and setting the saturation higher, but that doesn't help. I know my laptop is showing the right colors, (calibrated) because I am still printing to the Canon with cardstock and the colors are perfect using the same settings above.
Tried printing in PSE and it gave me an error that it was not a post script printer. Installed ps driver, still getting errors and it wouldn't print.
I would appreciate any help you could give me before I run out of toner and have to buy the expensive toners, or just slit my wrists j/k LOL
Thanks! JS

You need an ICC profile for your printer. Chromix has an excellent service at http://www2.chromix.com/colorvalet/ which will do this calibration for you. You download some software they provide, then print a test file on the exact same paper you are using for your cards. Then send the output to them and they will calibrate the colors with their equipment and send you the ICC profile file. Once you have it, you'll be able to print accurate colors.
There are other services out there that may cost less, but I do not know how reputable they are. Chromix is a good business I've worked with many times.
If you are trying to run a business and you don't understand color management yet, you may be in for a lot of trouble. Please get the book "Real World Color Management" available at http://www.colorremedies.com/realworldcolor/ and it will save you a ton of money and headaches.

Suspected Flaw in Firefox 35 Color Management Behavior

I hope I can keep this concise, but bear with me if my confusion causes me to include some extraneous info. The info below is what I think is required for someone else to fully understand the issue.
BACKGROUND:
- NECPA271W wide gamut monitor in dual monitor setup with a standard gamut Samsung 245BW
- Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit
- Nvidia Quadro K4000
- Latest versions of FireFox (v35 32-bit), IE11 (11.0.9600.17498 updated to 11.0.15 32-bit) & Avant (Ultimate 2015 build 7, in use for testing because it incorporates the rendering engines of 3 major browsers, IE v 11.0.9600.17496, FireFox v 34.05.5464, & Chrome v39.0.2172.95)
- i1Display Pro (not the NEC SVSensor version), SpectraView II, NEC Multiprofiler & i1 Profiler
- Both monitors are calibrated and profiled. The NEC is calibrated using SVII, but since that software only supports NEC monitors, the 245BW has to be done using i1Profiler software that comes with the i1Display Pro. SVII is only capable of generating v2 ICC profiles, i1 Profiler is capable of v2 & v4, and recommends v4. Nevertheless, I think this entire bullet point is irrelevant to the effect I'm observing.
- I've lately started selling some of my photography on a fine art website. As a result I started digging deeper into how those images are viewed by others & subsequently printed. Images optimized in sRGB for the best possible display results across a widely varied viewer base are not going to give the same results as images that are soft-proofed and optimized for specific media/printer/ink combinations. This is especially true of my images which tend to lean in the direction of being more heavily saturated & wider gamut
- I've been exhaustively over the info here COLOR MANAGEMENT PHOTOSHOP CC CS6 Basic ColorManagement Theory ICC Profiles Color Spaces Calibrated Monitor Professional… & here http://cameratico.com/tools/web-browser-color-management-test/ among many others.
I had reached a point where I thought I understood things pretty well, but now I'm not so sure again Here's the problem:
I followed the guidance and info on how to set FireFox for FULL color management (value 1 with associated monitor profile) that allows the handling of non-tagged images and web page elements, http://cameratico.com/guides/firefox-color-management/. Upon restarting Firefox with the updated configuration, I return to the test at http://cameratico.com/tools/web-browser-color-management-test/ The last two tests there are designed to show a) how much wider your display gamut is than sRGB, and b) how the browser handles untagged images and elements.
The behavior I observe is different from the behavior I expect! Specifically, setting FIrefox to color management value 1 and telling it my monitor profile causes Firefox to display the sRGB tagged images as if they were not tagged. With the default value 2/no monitor profile, I can see a difference between the display of sRGB tagged images and either the ProPhoto RGB tagged image or the untagged sRBG & untagged CSS elements. I would expect that the change to value 1 with monitor profile should have no impact on the display of tagged images and elements, and yet that switch ONLY causes a change in the display behavior of the tagged images it shouldn't have affected, and I can no longer see a difference between the various images because everything is fully saturated
A marked up screen capture showing the comparative behaviors between the various applications and browsers would probably be worth more than the proverbial 1000 words, I'm new here & haven't figured that part out yet, but will post this as is while I work on that.
Can anybody replicate the behavior I observe? Is anybody spotting an error in my thinking?
TIA
Randy
*EDIT - I have annotated a screen shot comparing the results across 4 browsers. The screenshot has an embedded Adobe RGB profile which best represents the effects & changes that I was/am seeing but may not be preserved if posted here. It may be best to download and view in CS6 so as to not introduce any additional confusion arising from which browser YOU may be using :-) If needed the full res 2560x1440 version is available, but scaling to meet the forum limits of 900x900 makes the text unreadable. Can anyone suggest a means of supplying the full res file with the embedded profile retained?

twenty_one wrote:
Firefox will use the profile for the main display. It does not support a dual monitor setup. If you move FF to the secondary display, it will still use the primary display's profile.
There is a Firefox Add-On called Profile Switcher that allows using multiple monitor profiles. You will need to setup a Firefox user profile for each monitor:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Multiple_Firefox_Profiles
After installing Profile Switcher Add-On you will find a new entry in the FF File menu 'Open Profile Manager,' which can be used to create and manage the new user profiles (see screenshots below).
You can then setup a Firefox Sync account to keep the user profiles synchronized or do this manually using Copy & Paste. I was concerned that Firefox Sync would over-write the configuration data for the monitor profile, but it doesn't. I leave 'gfx.color_management.display_profile' blank on the user profile for the primary NEC 272W monitor, and add the path for the monitor profile on the user profile for my standard gamut secondary display. Here's what I see when launching FF:
After installing the Profile Switcher Add-On you'll see two new entries in the FF File menu that allow you to manage and launch other FF user profiles as separate browser instances.
It works fine on my Windows 7 system and should also work on Mac OS X systems and Windows 8.x.

Color management book recommendation?

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