Color Management Confusion-Photoshop and monitors

Ok, so I am asking this question because I am literally at my wits end with this color management stuff. I have become so confused in the past few days that I can’t even think straight. Anyway, I am hoping you all can help me “understand” how it all work. Let me start with some background information (since I know it will probably be asked)
am a photographer, I utilize Lightroom 4 and CS3 (I know its old but I am planning on getting CS6 soon).
put my pictures on the web that I will assume will be viewed on multiple different browsers.
also will be sending my pictures to print at mpix or whcc. I may decide to print my own but haven’t really made that determination at this point.
have a mac book pro that I work from.
Ok, so I need to get a monitor to work with but I am unsure if I should just buy the thunderbolt mac monitor or get a wide gamut monitor. I have heard so many people say that the wide gamut monitors just messed them up. Also, I am bit confused on the nature of monitor profiles and how they work with photoshop and lightroom. I would assume the monitor applies a profile at all times? I also don’t understand the existence of the prophoto and wide gamut profiles for the mac monitors… they clearly are not wide-gamut monitors, so how do these profiles exist for them, and why would they be useful (if you set the profile to prophoto for example, it is all washed out as expected). Are these profiles “assigning” a profile to the color? I am assuming so because if they were converting them to just a standard rgb then you wouldn’t have the faded colors (correct?).
I just am so nervous that I am going to create something that looks great in Lightroom or Photoshop but that looks awful on the browser, or worse, on a different monitor (standard monitor) and I would have no idea that it looked bad. Or, if I send something to a printer only to get a mess back.
Also, please let me know if I correct in this. If I am in photoshop and I have an untagged image (send via a friend), and lets just say it is really a prophoto image (although my friend didn’t tell me) and I say to assign the prophoto profile (upon import to photoshop). If that truly is the correct profile, the image should look correct. Now consider two scenarios from there: 1) I embed that profile in the image, if I upload that to the web (I know to be cautious, you should always use srgb for web), if the person has a color managed browser, the image would properly appear, because the browser would recognize the profile (in this case “prophoto”) and convert it to whatever it needed to be. But, if it was not a color managed browser, I run the risk that the web browser will just assign a profile, which will wash the photo out most likely, correct? Ok… and scenario 2) after I get the image from my friend and assign the prophoto profile (since that is the correct profile the image was actually created in, although it was untagged when it was sent to me), the image will look correct… BUT, is photoshop displaying the prophoto profile, or is it converting to RGB for my viewing, or is my monitor converting it to rgb for my viewing? I guess I just don’t understand how the monitor fits into all of this. You HAVE to use your monitor to see your images, and since most monitors (including my current one are standard gamut) it would make sense that you actually can’t see anything in the prophoto profile, and you are truly looking at an srgb profile since that is all your monitor can display.
Oh ya, and what benefit is the color match rgb? It seems everyone speaks of the srgb, prophoto, and argb.. but never some of the others.. so maybe I am just lost. I would even appreciate a link to some tutorials if you think those would be helpful.
I am seriously confused.. I would really appreciate the help.

I am not surprised you are confused about colour management because its a confusing subject. Luckily you own a Mac so you can get to grips with what the problems that colour management solves using the "colorSync Utility" and you will find this in Applications >> Utilities >> colorSync Utility. If you own a windows computer then I am sorry but you will be out of luck here and you should know better when you buy your next computer!! I am not sure why Apple gave us this application but it is really useful and all will help you understand Color Management.
1. Launch Applications >> Utilities >> ColorSync Utility.
2. You will see a list of "Installed ColorSync Profiles". Choose Adobe RGB 1998 which I hope you have chosen in you camera preferences.
3.You will see a 3D representation of the Adobe 1998 Colour space. This represents all the colors this colour space will hold.
4. Top left hand corner you will see a little arrow pointing down next to "Lab Plot". Click on this and a drop down menu will appear.
    Choose "Hold For Comparison"
5. Now somewhere in the "Installed ColorSync Profiles" list you will find the profile for you monitor. Choose this.
6. You will now see a new colour space inside the Adobe 1998 Colour space. If you have a cheap monitor the colour space will be small
inside the Adobe 1998 profile. This means that you monitor cannot show you all the colors that are missing.
7. Now choose a printer profile say, if you use them a profile for an Epson paper or any printer profile you have and you will see another profile in the Adobe 1998 box which shows you the only colors that your printer can print. If you like choose your monitor profile then hold for comparison then the printer profile and it will clearly show the mis match between you monitor and printer.
8. Now choose SRGB and this will show you what colors a person using an average Windows monitor can see, poor people.
So this is the problem, all devises can reproduce only a certain range of colors. The adobe 1998 profile does not show all the colors our eyes can see " choose Generic Lab" profile, then "hold for comparison" then Adobe 1998 and you will see Adobe 1998 is a small profile but is a good average of our collective colour vision.
So how to solve all these missing colour problems. Well if you think of each devise, including you camera as speaking a different language from you monitor and printer then it is easy to understand that you need some sort of translator so that they all know exactly what colour is being talked bout pixel by pixel in an image. This is held in the ICC profile, but an ICC profile has o do more than this.
Say you camera can produce a specific red we will call for demo purposes "001" and your monitor cannot produce it, how do you solve this? Well it is very easy to fool our eyes. Our eyes work by comparison so if the profile maps red "001 to the nearest red that the monitor can show and then proportionally remaps all other reds to fit within the reds the monitor can show us then we actually think we are seeing a full range of reds. The problem comes if we use the wrong profile for this. The red 001 could be re mapped anywhere and could be outside what the monitor can show. Say that happens but the printer can reproduce that red 001. We would see an image on the monitor with not many reds and when we printed it we would be shocked to find reds on the print. Worst, we would see an image on the monitor without reds and would correct for this and end up with a print with heavy reds and would not be able to work out why.
So to solve this we should:
1. use the correct camera profile when we are opening "Raw" files.
2. Make sure you have the correct monitor ICC profile selected in "System Preferences" >> Displays.
3. In photoshop we should make sure that the " Edit >> colour settings " are set to Adobe 1998 for RGB.
4. If you are going to print you own photo in Photoshop go to "View >> Proof Setup >> Custom" and a box will
open. Choose the profile of your printer and paper and choose "Perceptual" for rendering intent and then " OK". If you cannot find
a profile for you printer and paper go to the printer of paper manufactures web site and download the profiles and instal
them.
5. You can now adjust the colors and contrast and photoshop will simulate how the output devise will deal with this. If you
are using an outside printing house, they will supply you with their ICC profile to download so just follow the same procedure and
choose their ICC profile and and do you colour correction.
If you have a cheap monitor you will still not get a 100% result but you will get closer. You really need a monitor that you can  calibrate
regularly because generic ICC profiles are just that. They are made from the results of many monitors and so are 90% or worse accurate.
If you want to see a flag ship monitor at work go to http://www.eizo.com/global/support/db/products/software/CG223W#tab02 and go
to the bottom of the page and download the Eizo Coloredge CG223W monitor profile, instal it on your mac then open then ope
Launch Applications >> Utilities >> ColorSync Utility choose Adobe 1998 the hold and compare it with the  Eizo Coloredge CG223W
profile. This is not the top of the range Eizo monitors that we use but you will see that this monitor will show most of the missing colour you monitor does not. This is actually a good tip if you are buying a monitor. Download the monitors profile and see how good it really is.
The weak link still is printing. The colors you see in RGB on a back lit RGB screen are very hard to reproduce by CYMK inks on paper. Here you really should have a profile made for your printer and chosen paper. If you don't want the expense of buying a calibrator and doing it yourself, there are on line services that will do this for you.
One final point you must remember. If you are using soft proofing in Photoshop ( "View >> Proof Setup >> Custom" as explained above), when you print you MUST choose in "Colour Handling" "Photoshop Manages Colour" and in the next step when the printing box appears
you will see a drop down box with "Layout" in it. Click on this and choose "Colour Management and choose "Off No Colour Management". If you do not do this Photoshop will manage the colour then the printer will do it again and the print will be a disaster.
This is a starting point really. Colour management is difficult but just try to remember that you need a translator between each step in the process to make it work so you have to make sure the correct profiles are being used by you camera, the program you use for opening the Raw photo files (Please don't use jpegs straight from the camera, but thats another subject), the correct monitor profile and output profile. If you don't check these it is like chinese whispers and your picture will be printed in Double Dutch!!.
Hope that helps. I am on location In Italy for a couple of months so will be unlikely to be able to reply to any questions for a while. Will try to check back and see how you are getting on. Drop me a line at [email protected] if you have any questions. Good luck.
Paul Williams

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    mikwen:
    If you compare the sRGB and Adobe RGB color profiles with ColorSync Utility you'll see that the Adobe profile is much wider. I understand it is used for high end CMYK printing or similar. The Adobe profile gives me a much darker onscreen image. Haven't printed with it in quite a while so don't remember what the output was.
    Apple uses the sRGB profile in their books and other printed products. So I've setup PSE to use the sRGB profile and set my monitor to sRGB but with a 2.2 gamma. That seems to work for me.
    I don't know which camera you have or what color profile it embeds but the Canon's, and others, have a camera profile that is very close to the sRGB. If you installed the software that came with your camera it probably added the camera's profile to the system and you can view it with ColorSync Utility.
    Do you Twango?
    TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.
    I've written an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.

  • Colour management in PS and monitor calibration

    I've calibrated my monitors colours with an Eye One Display 2 colorimeter, and for photoshop i've assigned the monitors colour profile it has created to the work area (Edit > Assign Profile).
    But for photography i take photos with AdobeRGB colour profile setting on my camera... should i be using this colour profile instead when working on the photos in PS? They look a little washed out. I'm guessing i should keep using my calibrated monitors profile instead?
    And when saving photos a jpgs for the web, should i tick the "ICC Profile" box that lists my monitors colour profile when saving? Because i've noticed that now some browsers have started supporting ICC profiles. So in Firefox 4 BETA for instance, if i dont use the ICC Profile setting the colours look washed out on other monitors.
    (Note that the ICC Profile setting for jpg is only available in File > Save As... if i go to File > Save for Web & Devices it has Embed Color Profile which is basically the same thing).

    Beany3001 wrote:
    ... after doing this and testing the images on other monitors this does not happen, dont know why it does it on my monitors but as long as the colours are ok on other peoples monitors, and the closest to my displays i can get them, this seems to be the best option.... When opening any sRGB or AdobeRGB images in PS CS5 they always look washed out (like the saturation has been turned down), i can directly open a RAW image taken with my camera that uses AdobeRGB and it will still look washed out.
    This only now happens after calibrating my monitor. Before this i could view any sRGB or AdobeRGB and they would look fine, not washed out in any way. I dont know why this happens, but i've seen other people mention this about PS as well after calibrating there monitors with a colorimeter (not sure if it's just with wide gamut displays). Do you have any explanation for this?...
    This is not normal and indicates a bad monitor profile. I have a wide gamut monitor too and I had some problems before properly profiling my monitor, after that images look perfect - in fact way better than any sRGB monitors that I've seen. This is especially obvious with sRGB photos from digital cameras because the manufacturers create algorithms that save the captured images with colors using the ideal sRGB color space which can be more accurately displayed on a wider gamut monitor when it is working properly.
    Beany3001 wrote.
    ...I've calibrated my monitors colours with an Eye One Display 2 colorimeter
    I'm not an expert with using these devices and I can't tell what could be the reason for generating a wrong color profile - it could be the device itself or wrong settings or probing. When choosing a colorimeter, I searched a lot for feedback and found various links like this one saying that Eye One colorimeters are not very accurate yet with probing wide gamut monitors. But I also read a lot of comments saying that they are fine and some people claim they are better. However only the manufacturer of Spyder 3 claim officially on their web site that it is wide gamut capable, so I got that one and so far it's working fine.
    Beany3001 wrote:
    ... It's why i would have liked to use my monitors profile as it's the only way i can get colours looking properly saturated and not dull...
    As I said earlier, by working on an image with a monitor profile, you are in fact turning off the color management and if you don't like the results when the color management is on that indicates that the color management is not set properly and is so wrong that you are better off without it. I think you should start the troubleshooting with properly generating an accurate monitor profile. Unfortunately I'm not a big expert with that as I got my colorimeter only several months ago and also ColorEyes Display Pro which is a profiling software from a different company. I set the calibration and probing settings following the instructions from the tech support of the profiling software and since I liked the results, I never spent time to understand in depth all settings and options.
    Beany3001 wrote:.... 
    I've read multiple times that the AdobeRGB colour space can do more colours than sRGB? I thought that only when you save in a limited format like JPG that the amount of colours are the same....
    Wider gamut does not necessarily is more colors. When you see those charts plotting gamuts as different 3D volumes or 2D cross sections, this is not the number of colors but saturation. You can have millions of colors on a narrower gamut than, let's say 10 colors with a much wider gamut. Think of the numbers as steps between colors and the gamut as how intensive the saturation can go. The number of colors depends on the bit depth 8 bit, 16 bit integer, 16 bit float, 32 bit float. JPGs are limited to 8 bit but the limit is to the number of colors (shades) not gamut. Check this link - it has jpgs saved with different profiles of various color spaces (gamuts)

  • How do I turn off color management in Photoshop 5?

    There are three selections, only the first two clickable, in PS5 under Color Management in the Print dialouge:
    Printer Manages Colors
    Photoshop Manages Color
    Separations (grayed out/unclickable)
    Under Printer Manages Colors - there is no option to turn off color management for my Canon 9500 Mark ii
    Under Photoshop Manages Color - there is no option to choose "No Color Management"
    You can chose "No Color Management" in PS3, but not PS5? What happened to this option?
    How is it possible to create a profile from a print of color swatches if I can not turn off color management?
    (I am running Mac OS 10.6.4)
    PS> this is the second time I'm contacting Adobe. First was by phone but I couldn't understand the message left on my voice mail after the phone technician had to ask for help from upper management - the english was so bad. I'm hoping by the written word I'll be able to understand. Please help.

    I have researched the matter a lot and I, 
    along with many others, still have problems with this complicated 
    subject.
    Color management is as simple in theory as Honoring a Source Profile and CONVERTING it to a Target Profile (monitor or printer) for Proofing.
    But yes, we work at the mercy of the rocket scientists who try to dumb an extremely complicated process down so regular folks (like me) can make it work — trouble is I think their approach needs a bit more distilling and common sense sometimes...but it is very doable once you put in the time to figure it out, just follow the CHAIN in your workflow if you're still having problems.
    If you want a "simple button" try staying in sRGB and printing out of Apple Preview app using OEM standard papers matched to your printer and OEM ink set.

  • Color Management between AE and Pre Pro

    Hello,
    I'm posting this in both the AE and Premiere Pro Forums
    I  was working on clip in Pr Pro, sent it over to AE to do some color  correcting.  Normally when I have the 2 programs open, one is on my  Apple Cinema Display monitor and the other is on my old HP monitor, so I  expect to see some color differences.  However, by chance I had both on  the apple monitor and noticed that there was a color/luminance  difference of the same exact clip on the different programs.
    Which Program is displaying the true colors???????? 
    Which program should I use to make my coloring decisions?
    Should it be the program that will be doing the final render once the project is complete??
    Is there a way to make the 2 programs uniform????
    Lastly,  if I choose a color management in AE project settings, should it be my  monitor, NONE, or what?  This color management issue is very confusing  with so many different choices.
    You guys (Adobe) need to simplify this.
    Thank You
    I'm using CS4 on a Mac OS 10.5.8.

    I second the request--I know that getting TRUE color representation on a computer monitor is very hard, if not totally impossible, and that we really need to use a real reference monitor, but for those of us who cannot afford a proper reference monitor, it would be very nice to have some better color management options built into Premiere for getting our computer screens properly calibrated... I think I'll post a feature request! :-)

  • Color management of photoshop animation

    I created an animated image in photoshop and saved it as a mp4. Loved the color on my computer, but on my htc phone it looked a little too pink, and on apple tv it is way too orange. How should I handle the color management of this image so it consistently looks like on my computer?

    addysdaddy wrote:
    Being a photographer I'm very sensitive to color.  The screen looks great for all the meat & potato applications that one normally uses a smartphone for, however for displaying pictures it's my opinion that colors are off.  The phone has an awesome screen and with a little color adjustment would be amazing.   In my studo I have sophisicated color management software & a color "spyder" to adjust and maintain perfect color on my monitor, though that wouldn't be necessary for the Charge.
    However I am looking for a method or app that would allow me even simple adjusts to color, tint & contrast.  I've looked in the Android Mkt and couldn't find anything that even remotely comes close to accomplishing this. Does anyone know how I can gain control over the display of the phone? 
    With your phone you got being just released a month ago or so there are apps that may still be in the works for it to do better adjustments on the camera. have you done a google search on the web to find any suggestions. as for like my droid X when the Gingerbread update came out it suffered in picture Qaulity as some of the options it had in Fro-yo was removed. But hopefully something will come available to help ya as Samsungs have got a some of the brightest an colorfull screens out there. 
    one other thing you can try is pute your pointer on support on the Verizon site then click Device after that find your phone an click there an it will take you too your phone once there. you can click on the PDF manual an it can show you more options that can be done with the phone.  give this a try an best of luck B33  

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