Help - Color Management Confusion!

I'm hoping someone can give me some clear guidance as to how to configure my software to integrate color management so that what I see on my monitor is comparable to what I print or post on the web.  I've read all I can find on-line and looked through a number of books and magazines, but as my reading increases, so does my confusion - too many menus, options, links and connections.  I'll describe what I have in terms of hardware and software in as much detail as possible.  My hope is that someone can help me figure out how to coordinate color management across all platforms and outputs.
I run an HP desktop with an ASUS IPD monitor.  I have ColorMunki and have reguarly conducted their diagnostic, which gives me an updated monitor profile every two weeks - when a new profile is created, it becomes my default under Windows 7 Control Panel Color Management.  I print with an Epson Stylus Photo R1900 with Epson paper and ink.  I use the printer and paper profiles supplied by Epson for the R1900 and specific papers.
On the other end, I have Nikon photo equipment.  I set the color space on my cameras to ProPhoto and I shoot exclusively in Nikon raw format - .NEF.  I shoot a D90 and a D7000 with 12M and 16M files respectively.  I download directly from the SD card using Windows Explorer and then import into Lightroom 3.
I have Lightroom 3 and Photoshop CS5 Extended.  I use Lightroom to import raw files into the catalog and to do basic editing.  From there, I publish to Smugmug as .TIFF files - directly from Lightroom.  I also export files from Lightroom to Photoshop CS5 Extended and save them as .PSD and .JPEG files.  The files that I export to Smugmug look pretty good - similar to what I see on my screen.  My real conundrum is with the Epson printer and Lightroom/Photoshop.  What I see on my monitor is very different from what prints.  From both platforms.  As a rule, the shots are too dark and the colors are often very muted.  This is especially true with images of people and skin tones.  They often come out looking pale gray or blue.
Right now, my solution is to tweak and print until I get something close enough to print, while the image on my monitor looks horrible.  Needless to say, this is not a viable solution for the long term - it is too expensive and time consuming.  I've tried to read and then adjust adjust both programs, but I'm confused as to what to set where.  I've taken to explorting Lightroom files into Photoshop to use the soft-proof capability.  it works better but still not great and not consistent.  When I do the Photoshop soft-proof, I see signficant portions of most images as "out of gamut>"  I also notice that these areas are often the ones with odd colors.
My problem, (well, one of them) is the multitude of menus that have color management inputs - how do I make sure they are all working together and reinforcing each other instead of working at cross purposes?  In Lightroom, I have Page Setup and Print Preferences, as well as Color Management options in the Print Module right hand panel.  In Photoshop, I have Print and Page setups, as well as Color Management menus.  There are also the Proof menus to consider.
In Photoshop, softproofing, I think I ned to select teh printer profile so that Photoshop is showing me how the printer will interpret the color space.  I also think I need to be consistent in how I define the workspace - from Nikon to Lightroom to Photoshop to Epson.  If I use ProPhoto with my camera do I need to use that in every circumstance?  Should I switch to Adobe RGB?  I have printer setting color space turned off in both LR and PS.
Can someone walk me through any or all of this?  Right now, all of these moving parts is making me dizzy.  It's said that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.  This proves the point.  Three months ago, I had color management problems but had no idea what such a thing was.  Now, I know a lot more about it, but my results are no better - worse in some respects.  Anyone who can help will earn major Karma points and hae my undying gratitude for several months.  Sorry - that's all the compensation I can offer!
Thanks in advance for any help.

Lundberg02 wrote:
is that the hand of God in the picture?
That was a nearly mature tornado forming in Nebraska, and it dissipated at the last moment because at that time the sun went down and the temperature dropped rapidly.  I was glad, because I was camping in a travel trailer at the time, and everyone knows trailers attract tornados. 
Lundberg02 wrote:
Please explain why and under what circumstances anyone would want to use a device independent profile as a monitor profile, which should be a device dependent profile.
Here's one example, to answer your specific question:
You have a monitor that provides sRGB performance (e.g., via a specific sRGB setting).  You judge (and/or ensure via your own calibration) that it provides satisfactory sRGB color accuracy for your needs, so you set the monitor profile to sRGB, which is accurate in this case. 
What does this do for you?
Images displayed in Internet Explorer, which assumes your monitor is sRGB regardless of your profile, are now properly color-managed because you have made IE's assumption valid.  By the way, Microsoft does not appear to be going to change this behavior any time soon.
Untagged images, considering a majority of untagged images assume sRGB encoding, are displayed properly by apps that just pass them through to the display.  Some browsers do this.
sRGB images (the majority) are displayed properly by non-color-managed apps.  If you choose to set your preferred working space to sRGB, then your own processed images will display properly using your non-color-managed apps.  Such apps include various viewers, the thumbnails in Windows Explorer, etc.
The sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile is a clean, well-formed color profile and works well in virtually every color-managed application. It's the Windows default, so you can imagine most apps are very well tested with it.
Screen grabs are already in the sRGB color space, so if your working space is sRGB then you gain simplicity and don't have gotchas when mixing screen grabs back into your workflow.
Since the color-gamut is not wide, the distance between adjacent colors in a 24 bit color environment is smaller - the display of gradients looks smoother, and you might not crave 30 bit color quite so much.
There are other subtle advantages as well, simply because so much of software development throughout history has assumed the representation of color images on computers is sRGB. It's akin to "going with the flow".
In short, setting up a soup-to-nuts sRGB system means more images match more often across more applications with a system set up this way.  If I'm not mistaken, that's about what the original poster is asking about, which is why RikRamsay's response is not unreasonable.
And there are, of course, some specific disadvantages to doing this. 
For one thing, one does not have the direct ability to work with a wider gamut of colors.  There are those who wish to work in wider gamut color spaces, have wide gamut monitors, and wide gamut printers.  Brighter, better managed colors may well help such a person set his/her work off from the crowd.  This is starting to become more and more important in this day and age of better and better wide gamut hardware.
It's not straightforward to set up a system so that its sRGB response is accurate, though it is doable.  Can you trust the factory sRGB calibration of a monitor that advertises sRGB response characteristics?
-Noel

Similar Messages

  • Color Management Confusion-Photoshop and monitors

    Ok, so I am asking this question because I am literally at my wits end with this color management stuff. I have become so confused in the past few days that I can’t even think straight. Anyway, I am hoping you all can help me “understand” how it all work. Let me start with some background information (since I know it will probably be asked)
    am a photographer, I utilize Lightroom 4 and CS3 (I know its old but I am planning on getting CS6 soon).
    put my pictures on the web that I will assume will be viewed on multiple different browsers.
    also will be sending my pictures to print at mpix or whcc. I may decide to print my own but haven’t really made that determination at this point.
    have a mac book pro that I work from.
    Ok, so I need to get a monitor to work with but I am unsure if I should just buy the thunderbolt mac monitor or get a wide gamut monitor. I have heard so many people say that the wide gamut monitors just messed them up. Also, I am bit confused on the nature of monitor profiles and how they work with photoshop and lightroom. I would assume the monitor applies a profile at all times? I also don’t understand the existence of the prophoto and wide gamut profiles for the mac monitors… they clearly are not wide-gamut monitors, so how do these profiles exist for them, and why would they be useful (if you set the profile to prophoto for example, it is all washed out as expected). Are these profiles “assigning” a profile to the color? I am assuming so because if they were converting them to just a standard rgb then you wouldn’t have the faded colors (correct?).
    I just am so nervous that I am going to create something that looks great in Lightroom or Photoshop but that looks awful on the browser, or worse, on a different monitor (standard monitor) and I would have no idea that it looked bad. Or, if I send something to a printer only to get a mess back.
    Also, please let me know if I correct in this. If I am in photoshop and I have an untagged image (send via a friend), and lets just say it is really a prophoto image (although my friend didn’t tell me) and I say to assign the prophoto profile (upon import to photoshop). If that truly is the correct profile, the image should look correct. Now consider two scenarios from there: 1) I embed that profile in the image, if I upload that to the web (I know to be cautious, you should always use srgb for web), if the person has a color managed browser, the image would properly appear, because the browser would recognize the profile (in this case “prophoto”) and convert it to whatever it needed to be. But, if it was not a color managed browser, I run the risk that the web browser will just assign a profile, which will wash the photo out most likely, correct? Ok… and scenario 2) after I get the image from my friend and assign the prophoto profile (since that is the correct profile the image was actually created in, although it was untagged when it was sent to me), the image will look correct… BUT, is photoshop displaying the prophoto profile, or is it converting to RGB for my viewing, or is my monitor converting it to rgb for my viewing? I guess I just don’t understand how the monitor fits into all of this. You HAVE to use your monitor to see your images, and since most monitors (including my current one are standard gamut) it would make sense that you actually can’t see anything in the prophoto profile, and you are truly looking at an srgb profile since that is all your monitor can display.
    Oh ya, and what benefit is the color match rgb? It seems everyone speaks of the srgb, prophoto, and argb.. but never some of the others.. so maybe I am just lost. I would even appreciate a link to some tutorials if you think those would be helpful.
    I am seriously confused.. I would really appreciate the help.

    I am not surprised you are confused about colour management because its a confusing subject. Luckily you own a Mac so you can get to grips with what the problems that colour management solves using the "colorSync Utility" and you will find this in Applications >> Utilities >> colorSync Utility. If you own a windows computer then I am sorry but you will be out of luck here and you should know better when you buy your next computer!! I am not sure why Apple gave us this application but it is really useful and all will help you understand Color Management.
    1. Launch Applications >> Utilities >> ColorSync Utility.
    2. You will see a list of "Installed ColorSync Profiles". Choose Adobe RGB 1998 which I hope you have chosen in you camera preferences.
    3.You will see a 3D representation of the Adobe 1998 Colour space. This represents all the colors this colour space will hold.
    4. Top left hand corner you will see a little arrow pointing down next to "Lab Plot". Click on this and a drop down menu will appear.
        Choose "Hold For Comparison"
    5. Now somewhere in the "Installed ColorSync Profiles" list you will find the profile for you monitor. Choose this.
    6. You will now see a new colour space inside the Adobe 1998 Colour space. If you have a cheap monitor the colour space will be small
    inside the Adobe 1998 profile. This means that you monitor cannot show you all the colors that are missing.
    7. Now choose a printer profile say, if you use them a profile for an Epson paper or any printer profile you have and you will see another profile in the Adobe 1998 box which shows you the only colors that your printer can print. If you like choose your monitor profile then hold for comparison then the printer profile and it will clearly show the mis match between you monitor and printer.
    8. Now choose SRGB and this will show you what colors a person using an average Windows monitor can see, poor people.
    So this is the problem, all devises can reproduce only a certain range of colors. The adobe 1998 profile does not show all the colors our eyes can see " choose Generic Lab" profile, then "hold for comparison" then Adobe 1998 and you will see Adobe 1998 is a small profile but is a good average of our collective colour vision.
    So how to solve all these missing colour problems. Well if you think of each devise, including you camera as speaking a different language from you monitor and printer then it is easy to understand that you need some sort of translator so that they all know exactly what colour is being talked bout pixel by pixel in an image. This is held in the ICC profile, but an ICC profile has o do more than this.
    Say you camera can produce a specific red we will call for demo purposes "001" and your monitor cannot produce it, how do you solve this? Well it is very easy to fool our eyes. Our eyes work by comparison so if the profile maps red "001 to the nearest red that the monitor can show and then proportionally remaps all other reds to fit within the reds the monitor can show us then we actually think we are seeing a full range of reds. The problem comes if we use the wrong profile for this. The red 001 could be re mapped anywhere and could be outside what the monitor can show. Say that happens but the printer can reproduce that red 001. We would see an image on the monitor with not many reds and when we printed it we would be shocked to find reds on the print. Worst, we would see an image on the monitor without reds and would correct for this and end up with a print with heavy reds and would not be able to work out why.
    So to solve this we should:
    1. use the correct camera profile when we are opening "Raw" files.
    2. Make sure you have the correct monitor ICC profile selected in "System Preferences" >> Displays.
    3. In photoshop we should make sure that the " Edit >> colour settings " are set to Adobe 1998 for RGB.
    4. If you are going to print you own photo in Photoshop go to "View >> Proof Setup >> Custom" and a box will
    open. Choose the profile of your printer and paper and choose "Perceptual" for rendering intent and then " OK". If you cannot find
    a profile for you printer and paper go to the printer of paper manufactures web site and download the profiles and instal
    them.
    5. You can now adjust the colors and contrast and photoshop will simulate how the output devise will deal with this. If you
    are using an outside printing house, they will supply you with their ICC profile to download so just follow the same procedure and
    choose their ICC profile and and do you colour correction.
    If you have a cheap monitor you will still not get a 100% result but you will get closer. You really need a monitor that you can  calibrate
    regularly because generic ICC profiles are just that. They are made from the results of many monitors and so are 90% or worse accurate.
    If you want to see a flag ship monitor at work go to http://www.eizo.com/global/support/db/products/software/CG223W#tab02 and go
    to the bottom of the page and download the Eizo Coloredge CG223W monitor profile, instal it on your mac then open then ope
    Launch Applications >> Utilities >> ColorSync Utility choose Adobe 1998 the hold and compare it with the  Eizo Coloredge CG223W
    profile. This is not the top of the range Eizo monitors that we use but you will see that this monitor will show most of the missing colour you monitor does not. This is actually a good tip if you are buying a monitor. Download the monitors profile and see how good it really is.
    The weak link still is printing. The colors you see in RGB on a back lit RGB screen are very hard to reproduce by CYMK inks on paper. Here you really should have a profile made for your printer and chosen paper. If you don't want the expense of buying a calibrator and doing it yourself, there are on line services that will do this for you.
    One final point you must remember. If you are using soft proofing in Photoshop ( "View >> Proof Setup >> Custom" as explained above), when you print you MUST choose in "Colour Handling" "Photoshop Manages Colour" and in the next step when the printing box appears
    you will see a drop down box with "Layout" in it. Click on this and choose "Colour Management and choose "Off No Colour Management". If you do not do this Photoshop will manage the colour then the printer will do it again and the print will be a disaster.
    This is a starting point really. Colour management is difficult but just try to remember that you need a translator between each step in the process to make it work so you have to make sure the correct profiles are being used by you camera, the program you use for opening the Raw photo files (Please don't use jpegs straight from the camera, but thats another subject), the correct monitor profile and output profile. If you don't check these it is like chinese whispers and your picture will be printed in Double Dutch!!.
    Hope that helps. I am on location In Italy for a couple of months so will be unlikely to be able to reply to any questions for a while. Will try to check back and see how you are getting on. Drop me a line at [email protected] if you have any questions. Good luck.
    Paul Williams

  • Help - color management issue, sunburns! (with a calibrated monitor)!

    I love Lightroom and its workflow, its unlike anything of its kind. However, lately (since I first started using it) I've seen a problem related to color management on my computer (I believe) and hope someone out there can shed some light.
    After importing JPG pictures into Lightroom and making modifications to them, I am getting *completely* different results once I export them (as sRGB, as I'll be sharing them via web). All of the pictures are coming much more saturated (for a lack of a better description).
    Here is what I am getting (see brief descriptions below each pic): http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple.html
    I'd be very curious as to how they are showing up on your (calibrated/uncalibrated) screen(s), but the 1st and 3rd pics are showing up as 'realistic' on my PC, while the middle (exported from Lightroom) is showing up as too much saturation and even reddish push, as though the couple got hit with sunburns.
    Another example of this result here: http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/dog_chair.html. Though in this case, the picture in the middle actually looks better, it doesn't change the fact that I am getting very different output than what I see in Lightroom (or in photoshop without the embedded profile).
    I am thinking this is a problem with color management settings on my PC. First guess would have been "monitor calibration"... but as mentioned in the title, I calibrated my monitors (I have two Dell 1905FPs... not great for accurate color representation, but they do the job) repeatedly, using Spyder2 Pro.
    What pushes me to think this is the following (represented here http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple_original.html ):
    Before making any modifications to the imported sRGB picture - in other words, importing the picture straight from the camera memory card into Lightroom and then exporting it back (again, without making any modifications to it) - the pictures, both the original and the exported which still look the same and are kept sRGB, look completely different in Lightroom then if I was viewing them in a non-color managed software on my PC, such as the default windows picture viewer.
    If my LCD panels are properly calibrated, should I not be more or less seeing the same image colors, whether I'm viewing them through windows, or through Lightroom (or Photoshop along with the embedded sRGB profile)? What gives??
    Jesse
    PS. I *more* than appreciate anyone taking time to respond to this post. I've been up for nights now trying to understand/fix this.
    If it's any help, I have the different version (but original and exported) files here:
    original file:
    http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple_original.JPG
    Original file, imported into Lightroom and then exported back out w/o any modifications (sRGB): http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple_lightroom-nomidification_exported_srgb.jpg
    Original file, imported into Lightroom, MODIFIED and then exported back out (sRGB):
    http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple_lightroom-modified_exported_srgb.jpg

    Exiftool reports the original contains the following EXIF tags:
    Interoperability Index : R98 - DCF basic file (sRGB)
    Interoperability Version : 0100
    The nomidification_exported version does not have those lines, but contains the actual sRGB profile:
    Profile CMM Type : Lino
    Profile Version : 2.1.0
    Profile Class : Display Device Profile
    Color Space Data : RGB
    Profile Connection Space : XYZ
    Profile Date Time : 1998:02:09 06:49:00
    Profile File Signature : acsp
    Primary Platform : Microsoft Corporation
    CMM Flags : Not Embedded, Independent
    Device Manufacturer : IEC
    Device Model : sRGB
    Device Attributes : Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color
    Rendering Intent : Perceptual
    Connection Space Illuminant : 0.9642 1 0.82491
    Profile Creator : HP
    Profile ID : 0
    Profile Copyright : Copyright (c) 1998 Hewlett-Packard Company
    Profile Description : sRGB IEC61966-2.1
    Media White Point : 0.95045 1 1.08905
    Media Black Point : 0 0 0
    Red Matrix Column : 0.43607 0.22249 0.01392
    Green Matrix Column : 0.38515 0.71687 0.09708
    Blue Matrix Column : 0.14307 0.06061 0.7141
    Device Mfg Desc : IEC http://www.iec.ch
    Device Model Desc : IEC 61966-2.1 Default RGB colour space - sRGB
    Viewing Cond Desc : Reference Viewing Condition in IEC61966-2.1
    Viewing Cond Illuminant : 19.6445 20.3718 16.8089
    Viewing Cond Surround : 3.92889 4.07439 3.36179
    Viewing Cond Illuminant Type : D50
    Luminance : 76.03647 80 87.12462
    Measurement Observer : CIE 1931
    Measurement Backing : 0 0 0
    Measurement Geometry : Unknown (0)
    Measurement Flare : 0.999 %
    Measurement Illuminant : D65
    Technology : Cathode Ray Tube Display
    Red Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
    Green Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
    Blue Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
    The modified_exported version likewise does not have the interoperability index tag but contains the actual sRGB profile:
    Profile CMM Type : Lino
    Profile Version : 2.1.0
    Profile Class : Display Device Profile
    Color Space Data : RGB
    Profile Connection Space : XYZ
    Profile Date Time : 1998:02:09 06:49:00
    Profile File Signature : acsp
    Primary Platform : Microsoft Corporation
    CMM Flags : Not Embedded, Independent
    Device Manufacturer : IEC
    Device Model : sRGB
    Device Attributes : Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color
    Rendering Intent : Perceptual
    Connection Space Illuminant : 0.9642 1 0.82491
    Profile Creator : HP
    Profile ID : 0
    Profile Copyright : Copyright (c) 1998 Hewlett-Packard Company
    Profile Description : sRGB IEC61966-2.1
    Media White Point : 0.95045 1 1.08905
    Media Black Point : 0 0 0
    Red Matrix Column : 0.43607 0.22249 0.01392
    Green Matrix Column : 0.38515 0.71687 0.09708
    Blue Matrix Column : 0.14307 0.06061 0.7141
    Device Mfg Desc : IEC http://www.iec.ch
    Device Model Desc : IEC 61966-2.1 Default RGB colour space - sRGB
    Viewing Cond Desc : Reference Viewing Condition in IEC61966-2.1
    Viewing Cond Illuminant : 19.6445 20.3718 16.8089
    Viewing Cond Surround : 3.92889 4.07439 3.36179
    Viewing Cond Illuminant Type : D50
    Luminance : 76.03647 80 87.12462
    Measurement Observer : CIE 1931
    Measurement Backing : 0 0 0
    Measurement Geometry : Unknown (0)
    Measurement Flare : 0.999 %
    Measurement Illuminant : D65
    Technology : Cathode Ray Tube Display
    Red Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
    Green Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
    Blue Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)

  • Color managed workflow for web and camera raw

    I recently calibrated my monitor and was wondering what is the preferred workflow for the web? I shoot with my camera in sRGB and my working space in Photoshop is sRGB aswell. The problem that has arised now is that the color managed colors in Photoshop are way different than the non-color managed in my web browser. Is this normal? And what I don't quite get is how a photo that has an embed sRGB profile looks the same in Firefox (that understand embed profiles) and Photoshop, but in Google Chrome (that does not recognize embed color profiles) shows the colors very differently, although the browser should understand the photo is in sRGB by default and show the same colors that are in Photoshop, right? So what happens here, because the colors are not the same? What information does Photoshop assign to the embed color profile that makes the colors so different?
    Anyway, I assume the problem here seems to be my newly calibrated monitor profile. The only way I can get the same colors to my photo in Photoshop and to a photo in web is to use soft proofing set to my Monitor RGB AND save without a color profile. Is this the way to go? But here comes another problem. I shoot in RAW and use camera raw to edit my photos. Camera Raw doesn't allow soft proofing, so I'm stuck with these color managed colors that are so different from non-color managed colors I get in my browser that any color correction in Camera Raw is simply useless. Unless everyone was using color managed browsers and I could start to use fully color managed workflow, but that's not the case I suppose. So, what's the solution here?

    First off, you need to be working in sRGB, or converting to sRGB when you save out files that are destined for the web. You can change the color space that Camera Raw (ACR) send your raw files to by clicking the blue text in the bottom center of the ACR window. This is probably that safest workflow for you until you get a handle on color management. If the color of your images is very important, you might consider embedding a color profile in them, which will help color managed browsers render your color properly.
    If your display's color gamut is different than sRGB (many are), you'll find matching colors for non-color-managed browsers to be impossible. But consider the average display and take heart. The best you can do is correct to a standard and hope for the best.
    Both the convert to sRGB and embed color profile options are in the save for web dialogue box.
    More about the ACR workflow options here:
    http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Photoshop/11.0/WS739D7239-24A7-452b-92F9-80481C544F25.html
    More about matching colors for the web:
    http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Photoshop/11.0/WSB3484C68-ECD2-4fa4-B7CC-447A5FE86680.html
    http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Photoshop/11.0/WSD3F5E059-4F51-4b44-8566-13B854D3DF5F.html
    http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Photoshop/11.0/WS0B3CD652-4675-44be-9E10-445EB83C60BA.html

  • Confused about Color Management in CS5 (Photos appearing differently in all other programs)

    I recently noticed this and it's been driving me crazy; when I view photos in Photoshop CS5 they appear significantly lighter/more washed out than when viewed in other programs like Zoombrowser, Digital Photo Professional or just in a regular Windows folder using Filmstrip mode (Windows XP).  When opening the same photo in both CS5 and Zoombrowser and switching back and forth between the two windows the difference is very apparent...for example, one of the photos I compared was of a person in a black shirt -- in CS5 (lighter/washed out) the folds in the shirt were very obvious, but in Zoombrowser (darker, more contrast/saturation) the folds were nearly invisible and it looked like just solid black.  Now, after messing around with the settings in both Photoshop and in Zoombrowser I've found a few ways to get the photos to look the same in the two programs; one way gives them both the lighter/more washed out appearance and another way gives them both the darker appearance with more contrast and saturation.  My problem is that I'm not sure which view is accurate.
    I use a NEC MultiSync LCD1990SXi monitor with SpectraView II calibration software and calibrate it every 2 weeks using these calibration settings (screenshot): http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8826/settingsx.jpg
    In the SpectraView II Software under Preferences there's an option that says "Set as Windows Color Management System Monitor Profile - Automatically selects and associates the generated ICC monitor profile with the Color Management System (CMS)."  This option is checked.  Also, when I open the Windows' Color Management window there's only one option displayed, which is "LCD1990SXi #######" (the ####### represents my monitor's serial number).
    I assume the above settings are all correct so far, but I'm not sure about the rest.
    Here are my current default Color Settings in CS5 (screenshot): http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/666/photoshopcolorsettings.jpg
    Changing these settings around doesn't seem to make the photo appear much different.  However, when I go to Edit -> Assign Profile, then click off of "Working RGB: sRGB IEC61966-2.1" and instead click Profile and select "LCD1990SXi ####### 2011-06-21 18-30 D65 2.20" from the drop-down menu, the picture becomes darker with more contrast and saturation and matches the picture in Zoombrowser.  Also, if I select "Adobe RGB (1998)" from the drop-down menu it's very similar in terms of increased darkness and contrast but the saturation is higher than with the LCD1990SXi setting.  Another way I've found to make the image equally dark with increased contrast and saturation is to go to View -> Proof Setup -> Custom and then click the drop-down menu next to "Device to Simulate" and select "LCD1990SXi ####### 2011-06-21 18-30 D65 2.20" again.
    Alternatively, to make both images equally light and washed out I can go to Zoombrowser -> Tools -> Preferences and check the box next to "Color Management: Adjust colors of images using monitor profile."  This makes the image in Zoombrowser appear just like it does in CS5 by default.
    Like I said, I'm confused as to which setting is the accurate one (I'm new to Color Management in general so I apologize for my ignorance on the subject).
    It would seem that assigning the LCD1990SXi profile in CS5 would be the correct choice in order to match the monitor calibration given the name of the profile but the "Adjust colors of images using monitor profile" option in Zoombrowser sounds like it would do the same thing as well.  Also, I've read that Photoshop is a color managed software whereas Zoombrowser and Windows Picture and Fax Viewer are not which makes me think that maybe the lighter/washed out version seen in Photoshop is correct.  So which version (light or dark) is the accurate one that I should use to view and edit my photos?  Thanks in advance for any help or info.

    Sorry for the late reply;
    But before we go there or make any assumptions, it's important for
    you to determine whether you're seeing consistent color in your
    color-managed applications and only inconsistent color in those that are
    not color-managed.  For that you'll need to do a little research to see
    if the applications in which you're seeing darker colors have
    color-management capability (and whether it is enabled).
    I opened the same picture in 7 different applications and found that the 6 of the 7 displayed the photo equally dark with equally high contrast when compared to the 7th application (CS5).  The other 6 applications were Zoombrowser EX, Digital Photo Professional, Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, Quicktime PictureViewer, Microsoft Office Picture Manager and Firefox.
    However, at least two of these programs offer color management preferences and, when used, display the photo (from what I can tell) exactly the same as Photoshop CS5's default settings.  The two programs are two Canon programs: Zoombrowser EX and Digital Photo Professional.  Here's the setting that needs to be selected in Zoombrowser in order to match up with CS5 (circled in red):
    And here's the setting in Digital Photo Professional that needs to be selected in order to match up with CS5 (again, circled in red):
    *Note: When the option above "Monitor Profile" is selected ("Use the OS settings") the image is displayed exactly the same as when the monitor profile is selected.  It's only when sRGB is selected that it goes back to the default darker, more contrasty version.
    So with the red-circled options selected, all three programs (CS5, ZB, DPP) display the images the same way; lighter and more washed out.  What I'm still having trouble understanding is if that ligher, more washed out display is the accurate one or not...I've read several tutorials for all three programs which only make things more confusing.  One of the tutorials says to always use sRGB if you want accurate results and *never* to use Monitor Profile and another says that, if you're using a calibrated monitor, you should always select Monitor Profile under the color management settings...so I'm still lost, unfortunately.
    What I also don't understand is why, when the monitor profile is selected in CS5, the image is displayed in the dark and contrasty way that the other programs display it as by default but when the monitor profile is selected in Digitial Photo Professional it displays it in the lighter, more washed out way that CS5 displays it using CS5's default settings (sRGB).  Why would selecting the monitor profile in DPP display the photo the same way as when sRGB is selected in Photoshop?  And vice versa...why would selecting the monitor profile in Photoshop display the photo the same way as when sRGB is selected in DPP?
    I feel like I'm missing something obvious here...which I probably am.  Again, I'm very new to this stuff so pardon my ignorance on the topic.
    By the way, I find that the way that the non-color managed programs (Windows Picture and Fax Viewer et al.) display the photos is more aesthetically pleasing to the eye than the duller, more washed out display that CS5 gives the photos, but ultimately what I want to see in these programs (especially PS5 where I'll be doing the editing) is the accurate representation of the actual photo itself...i.e. what it's supposed to look like and not a darker (or lighter) variant of it.
    So just to reiterate my questions:
    Why does selecting Monitor Profile under the color management settings in DPP give the same display results as the default sRGB profile in CS5 and vice versa?  (CS5 with monitor profile selected having the same display results as DPP with the sRGB profile selected)
    When using CS5 with it's default color management settings (sRGB), using DPP with the Monitor Profile selected, and using Zoombrowser EX with "Adjust color of images using monitor profile" selected this results in all three programs displaying the same lighter, washed-out images...is this lighter, more washed-out display of the images shown in these three programs the accurate one?
    I noticed when opening an image in Firefox it had the same darker, contrasty look as the other non-color managed applications had.  Assuming that the CS5 default settings are accurate, does this mean that if I edit a photo in CS5, save it, and upload it to the internet that other people who are viewing that image online will see it differently than how it's supposed to look (i.e. in a non-color-managed way?)  If so, this would seem to indicate that they'd see a less-than-flattering version of the photo since if their browser naturally displays images as darker and more contrasty and I added more darkness and contrast to the image in CS5, they'd be seeing a version of the photo that's far too dark and probably wouldn't look very good.  Is this something I have to worry about as well?
    I apologize for the lengthy post; I do tend to be a bit OCD about these things...it's a habit I picked up once I realized I'd been improperly editing photos on an  incorrectly calibrated monitor for years and all that time and effort had been spent editing photos in a certain way that looked good on my incorrectly calibrated monitor but looked like crap on everyone else's screen, so the length and detail of this post comes from a desire to not repeat similar mistakes by editing photos the wrong way all over again.  Again, thanks in advance for all the help, it's greatly appreciated!

  • Color management problems - help please!

    Hello, I'm trying hard to understand color management and to make colors consistent throughout my workflow, and I'm failing miserably despite reading and re-reading the help files. I'd REALLY appreciate some help with my specific problems, which I'm going to detail here.
    WHAT I DO
    I make pictures for use on the Web. I do both this by photoshopping existing photos, and by digitally drawing and painting in photoshop starting from a blank document.
    HOW MY SYSTEM IS SET UP
    1) I have my monitor set to sRGB, and I've calibrated the colors using the Viewsonic calibration app that came with the monitor. The resulting colors look good, to my eyes at least.
    2) I've set up Photoshop to use sRGB as the working RGB colorspace, and to convert RGB images to the working colorspace
    3) I've set up Photoshop's Save For Web to embed the color profile, to Convert to sRGB, and to Preview with Use Document Profile
    THE PROBLEM I'M HAVING
    The preview I see in the Save For Web preview screen exactly matches the source document. However, after saving for web, the color of the jpg or gif is significantly different to that of the original document.
    If I change the preview mode to Monitor Color, it does show an accurate representation of the jpg or gif that will be saved, but of course as I've explained that is drastically different to the source document.
    WHAT I NEED
    1) I need the output jpg or gif to match the source document
    2) I need to understand what's going wrong so that I can gain some insight into this process. I'm finding it very confusing
    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Mark

    Mark,
    What model of viewsonic do you have? And is it a CRT or LCD?
    If it's a CRT, there are some software based "eyeball" calibrators which can get you in the ballpark. If you have an older version of Photoshop you can use the Adobe Gamma utility that was included in CS2 and earlier versions.
    After that, my previous advice still stands, but the best results are still going to be to bite the bullet for a colorimeter and live with the peace of mind that will give you.
    If your Viewsonic is an LCD, you're much more limited, as the eyeball calibrators were never designed for LCD's. You can try them and they may be better than nothing, but no guarantees.

  • Color management help needed for adobe CS5 and Epson printer 1400-Prints coming out too dark with re

    Color management help needed for adobe CS5 and Epson printer 1400-Prints coming out too dark with reddish cast and loss of detail
    System: Windows 7
    Adobe CS5
    Printer: Epson Stylus Photo 1400
    Paper: Inkjet matte presentation paper with slight luster
    Installed latest patch for Adobe CS5
    Epson driver up to date
    After reading solutions online and trying them for my settings for 2 days I am still unable to print what I am seeing on my screen in Adobe CS5. I calibrated my monitor, but am not sure once calibration is saved if I somehow use this setting in Photoshop’s color management.
    The files I am printing are photographs of dogs with lots of detail  I digitally painted with my Wacom tablet in Photoshop CS5 and then printed with Epson Stylus 1400 on inkjet paper 20lb with slight luster.
    My Printed images lose a lot of the detail & come out way to dark with a reddish cast and loss of detail when I used these settings in the printing window:
    Color Handling: Photoshop manages color, Color management -ICM, OFF no color adjustment.
    When I change to these settings in printer window: Color Handling:  Printer manages color.  Color management- Color Controls, 1.8 Gamma and choose Epson Standard it prints lighter, but with reddish cast and very little detail and this is the best setting I have used so far.
    Based on what I have read on line, I think the issue is mainly to do with what controls are set in the Photoshop Color Settings window and the Epson Printer preferences. I have screen images attached of these windows and would appreciate knowing what you recommend I enter for each choice.
    Also I am confused as to what ICM color management system to use with this printer and CS5:
    What is the best ICM to use with PS CS5 & the Epson 1400 printer? Should I use the same ICM for both?
    Do I embed the ICM I choose into the new files I create? 
    Do I view all files in the CS5 workspace in this default ICM?
    Do I set my monitor setting to the same ICM?
    If new file opens in CS5 workspace and it has a different embedded profile than my workspace, do I convert it?
    Do I set my printer, Monitor and PS CS5 color settings to the same ICM?
    Is using the same ICM for all devices what is called a consistent workflow?
    I appreciate any and all advice that can be sent my way on this complicated issue. Thank you in advance for your time and kind help.

    It may be possible to figure out by watching a Dr.Brown video on the subject of color printing. Adobe tv
    I hope this may help...............

  • Need help understanding profiles and color management

    I made the big leap from inexpensive inkjets to:
    1 Epson 3800 Standard
    2 Spyder3Studio
    I have a Mac Pro Quad, Aperture, PS3, etc.
    I have a steep learning curve ahead, here's what I've done:
    1 Read a lot of books, watched tutorials, etc.
    2 Calibrated the monitor
    3 Calibrated the printer several times and created .icc profiles
    What I've found:
    1 The sample print produced by Spyder3Print, using the profile I created with color management turned off in the print dialog, looks very good.
    2 When I get into Aperture, and apply the .icc profile I created in the proofing profile with onscreen proofing, the onscreen image does not change appreciably compared with the no proof setting. It gets slightly darker
    3 When I select File>Print image, select the profile I created, turn off color management and look a the resulting preview image it looks much lighter and washed out than the onscreen image with onscreen proofing turned on.
    4 When I print the image, it looks the same as was shown in the print preview...light and washed out, which is much different than what is shown in edit mode.
    5 When I open PS3 with onscreen soft-proofing, the onscreen image is light and washed out...just like displayed in PS3 preview. If I re-edit the image to look OK onscreen, and print with the profile and color management turned off, the printed image looks OK.
    So, why am I confused?
    1 In the back of my simplistic and naive mind, I anticipated that in creating a custom printer profile I would only need to edit a photo once, so it looks good on the calibrated screen, and then a custom printer profile will handle the work to print a good looking photo. Different profiles do different translations for different printers/papers. However, judging by the PS work, it appears I need to re-edit a photo for each printer/paper I encounter...just doesn't seem right.
    2 In Aperture, I'm confused by the onscreen proofing does not present the same image as what I see in the print preview. I'm selecting the same .icc profile in both locations.
    I tried visiting with Spyder support, but am not able to explain myself well enough to help them understand what I'm doing wrong.
    Any help is greatly appreciated.

    Calibrated the printer several times and created .icc profiles
    You have understand that maintaining the colour is done by morphing the colourants, and you have understood that matching the digital graphic display (which is emissive) to the print from the digital graphic printer (which is reflective) presupposes a studio lighting situation that simulates the conditions presupposed in the mathematical illuminant model for media independent matching. Basically, for a display-to-print match you need to calibrate and characterise the display to something like 5000-55000 kelvin. There are all sorts of arguments surrounding this, and you will find your way through them in time, but you now have the gist of the thing.
    So far so good, but what of the problem posed by the digital graphic printer? If you are a professional photographer, you are dependent on your printer for contract proofing. Your prints you can pass to clients and to printers, but your display you cannot. So this is critical.
    The ICC Specification was published at DRUPA Druck und Papier in Düsseldorf in May 1995 and ColorSync 2 Golden Master is on the WWDC CD for May 1995. Between 1995 and 2000 die reine Lehre said to render your colour patch chart in the raw condition of the colour device.
    The problem with this is that in a separation the reflectance of the paper (which is how you get to see the colours of the colourants laid down on top of the paper) and the amount of colourant (solid and combinations of tints) gives you the gamut.
    By this argument, you would want to render the colour patch chart with the most colourant, but what if the most colourant produces artifacts? A safer solution is to have primary ink limiting as part of the calibration process prior to rendering of the colour patch chart.
    You can see the progression e.g. in the BEST RIP which since 2002 has been owned by EFI Electronics for Imaging. BEST started by allowing access to the raw colour device, with pooling problems and whatnot, but then introduced a primary ink limiting and linearisation.
    The next thing you need to know is what colour test chart to send to the colour device, depending on whether the colour device is considered an RGB device or a CMYK device. By convention, if the device is not driven by a PostScript RIP it is considered an RGB device.
    The colour patch chart is not tagged, meaning that it is deviceColor and neither CIEBased colour or ICCBased colour. You need to keep your colour patch chart deviceColor or you will have a colour characterisation of a colour managed conversion. Which is not what you want.
    If the operating system is colour managed through and through, how do you render a colour test chart without automatically assigning a source ICC profile for the colourant model (Generic RGB Profile for three component, Generic CMYK Profile for four component)?
    The convention is that no colour conversion occurs if the source ICC device profile and the destination ICC device profile are identical. So if you are targetting your inkjet in RGB mode, you open an RGB colourant patch chart, set the source ICC profile for the working space to the same as the destination ICC profile for the device, and render as deviceColor.
    You then leave the rendered colourant test chart to dry for one hour. If you measure a colourant test chart every ten minutes through the first hour, you may find that the soluble inkjet inks in drying change colour. If you wait, you avoid this cause of error in your characterisation.
    As you will mainly want to work with loose photographs, and not with photographs placed in pages, when you produce a contract proof using Absolute Colorimetric rendering from the ICC profile for the printing condition to the ICC profile for your studio printer, here's a tip.
    Your eyes, the eyes of your client, and the eyes of the prepress production manager will see the white white of the surrounding unprinted margins of the paper, and will judge the printed area of the paper relative to that.
    If, therefore, your untrimmed contract proof and the contract proof from Adobe InDesign or QuarkPress, or a EFI or other proofing RIP, are placed side by side in the viewing box your untrimmed contract proof will work as the visual reference for the media white.
    The measured reference for the media white is in the ICC profile for the printing condition, to be precise in the WTPT White Point tag that you can see by doubleclicking the ICC profile in the Apple ColorSync Utility. This is the lightness and tint laid down on proof prints.
    You, your client and your chosen printer will get on well if you remember to set up your studio lighting, and trim the blank borders of your proof prints. (Another tip: set your Finder to neutral gray and avoid a clutter of white windows, icons and so forth in the Finder when viewing.)
    So far, so good. This leaves the nittygritty of specific ICC profiling packages and specific ICC-enabled applications. As for Aperture, do not apply a gamma correction to your colourant patch chart, or to colour managed printing.
    As for Adobe applications, which you say you will be comparing with, you should probably be aware that Adobe InDesign CS3 has problems. When targetting an RGB printing device, the prints are not correctly colour managed, but basically bypass colour management.
    There's been a discussion on the Apple ColorSync Users List and on Adobe's fora, see the two threads below.
    Hope this helps,
    Henrik Holmegaard
    technical writer
    References:
    http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.59b52c9b/0
    http://lists.apple.com/archives/colorsync-users/2007/Nov/msg00143.html

  • Color Managment and CS3 Confusion - new LCD

    Please help, I'm just learning about how Ps handles color and this is driving me nuts.
    I'm using Ps CS3 in Vista 32-bit. Just got a new Dell 2408wfp LCD monitor. I'm using the default color profile it installed with monitor (specific to the monitor, not a "generic monitor" profile). Picture colors look great in Ps workspace. When go to "save for web" the images look way oversaturated (more orangish). In the save for web options, it's currently set to "uncompensated". If I change it to "Use document profile" or "standard windows color", it looks correct in "Save for web" preview. However, if I save it with either of these 2 settings and open it in IE, it looks bad again. In Ps, under "edit", my "color setting" is set to "North American General Purpose 2" with the workspace set to sRGV IEC61966-2.1. If I got to view -> proof setup -> and select "monitor RGB", the Ps workspace looks just like the "save for web" preview. My "Color Management" in the Vista Control Panel has the following settings:
    Devices tab, ICC profile = Dell 240WFT color profile, D6500 default.
    Advanced tab, device profile = system default (sRGB IEC61966-2.1)
    Advanced tab, viewing conditions profile = WCS profile for sRGB viewing conditions.
    What is going on here? From the forums it seems like either Ps is wrong or my monitor is. Which version is truly in the image? What I see in Ps workspace or in the "save for web" preview? In this scenario what version would my website visitors see (bad or good image color)? Could Ps be "correct" and saving without a color profile when "save for web" and then IE is using my monitor profile and therefore looking bad? How can I fix?
    Thanks in advance!

    "What was confusing to me is ON MY MONITOR it looks good in Ps. "
    What's confusing about this. Of course it looks good on your screen. Ps is using your monitor profile in conjunction with the workspace profile to display correctly. As soon as you view that sRGB image in Monitor RGB, which is what your other apps are doing, the on screen view goes to hell.
    "If I then follow that logic, I should just ignore the SFW and final visualized output on my monitor in my workflow and hope my end users visiting my website don't have wide gamut monitors with goofy color profiles?"
    Yes, that's about the best you can do. Actually embedding the profile and pushing for profile aware applications like Safari to become more widespread.
    "Seems like this approach doesn't correct the problem for me or visitors to my website with a similar monitors. And if the issue is just my monitors color profile, why don't all images on the web also look color shifted on my monitor?"
    How far off images look depends a lot on the image in question. Some types of images don't shift very much at all while others look hugely different. Also, if you're looking at images other than your own, you have no idea under what conditions (viewing and calibration) those images were adjusted. There are so many people, even professionals, who don't yet understand color spaces and calibration that you can't take anything for granted unless you do it yourself. For instance, I work with a lot of stock images from agencies like Getty and even though most of the files have embedded profiles, almost all of them were corrected by people who had no idea of how to properly do color and tonal correction, yet, somehow, you have to assume they thought the images looked great on their systems.

  • Need help with color management

    I am looking for someone to help me.  Please!
    I am looking for help with Photoshop/printer not printing correct colors.
    I have: Windows 7, Photoshop CS5, Photoshop Elements, HP Pavillion Laptop, new Okidata C530dn color laser printer
    Previously I had a Canon Pixma MP620 and a gentleman from another forum gave me the correct settings for printing on photo paper and colors were perfect.  I now have a OKIdata C530dn color laser and have started a business printing business cards and greeting cards, etc., and I do advertisements on a freelance basis.
    I will be working a lot with cardstock or cover stock 65-110 lbs paper.  I have an old OKIdata 2024e at work, and the colors are much better with that printer than my new personal one.  I have tried matching the settings of that printer to mine to no avail.  I have finally gotten the color close, but not quite.  When I print on my Canon injet the colors match and print perfectly.
    I have tried every setting variation that I can think of to get the color correct with my new OKIdata.  I have to get the colors correct or my new business will go under because I can't match colors for my customers.  I am a self taught Photoshoper and a novice so please bear with me.
    Using Okidata PCL.  Also have PS
    Color settings in Photoshop:
    North America General Purpose 2
    sRGB 2.1
    U.S. Web Coated Swop v2
    Dot gain 20 %
    Dot gain 20 %
    Preserve embeded profile
    Preserve embeded profile
    Preserve embeded profile
    engine: Adobe (ACE)
    Relative Colormetric
    Tried RGB color mode and CMYK color mode, no difference
    Printer settings:
    Photoshop manages colors
    sRGB 2.1 Printer profile
    Relative Colormetric
    Print setup:
    Letter
    Multipurpose tray
    Weight: printer settings-default  (when I used heavy setting for cardstock it printed green instead of the color light blue, so that was a start to the right color)
    Job Options:
    Hight Quality
    Color: No color matching
    Printer preferences in Printer properties:
    Color management
    Device: Display 1 generic PnP monitor AMD M88og with ATI Mobility Radeon HD4200
    ICC Profiles: Generic PnP Monitor (default)
    Advanced:
    Windows Color System Defaults:
    everything under this tab is set at System Default
    I have gotten the color close, but colors are dull. I have tried an adjustment layer and setting the saturation higher, but that doesn't help.  I know my laptop is showing the right colors, (calibrated) because I am still printing to the Canon with cardstock and the colors are perfect using the same settings above.
    Tried printing in PSE and it gave me an error that it was not a post script printer.  Installed ps driver, still getting errors and it wouldn't print.
    I would appreciate any help you could give me before I run out of toner and have to buy the expensive toners, or just slit my wrists j/k  LOL
    Thanks!  JS

    You need an ICC profile for your printer.  Chromix has an excellent service at http://www2.chromix.com/colorvalet/ which will do this calibration for you.  You download some software they provide, then print a test file on the exact same paper you are using for your cards.  Then send the output to them and they will calibrate the colors with their equipment and send you the ICC profile file.  Once you have it, you'll be able to print accurate colors.
    There are other services out there that may cost less, but I do not know how reputable they are.  Chromix is a good business I've worked with many times.
    If you are trying to run a business and you don't understand color management yet, you may be in for a lot of trouble.  Please get the book "Real World Color Management" available at http://www.colorremedies.com/realworldcolor/ and it will save you a ton of money and headaches.

  • Color management issues with Flash CS3, please help?

    Hello everyone.
    I am having issues with color from a Jpeg image produced in Photoshop CS4
    after importing onto the stage in Flash CS3. The color in Flash changes the image to a lighter less saturated state. Yuk.
    Here is a link to a screen capture to show you what's happening (for a bigger view):
    http://www.rudytorres.com/color/weirdcolor.png
    As you can see the front image is the Photoshop image showing the sRGB color profile embedded but Flash (behind) changes that color.
    This client is quite picky and she will notice this difference.
    If any one can help, please.
    - Rudy
    P.S. It's a button somewhere, Right?

    Dougfly,
    Only an hour wasted? Lucky you. Color is an incredibly complex subject. First, forget matching anything to the small LCD on the back of your camera. That's there as a basic guide and is affected by the internal jpg algorithm of your camera.
    2nd, you're not really takeing a color photo with your digital camera, but three separate B&W images in a mosaic pattern, exposed thru separate red, green and blue filters. Actual color doesn't happen until that matrix is demosaiced in either your raw converter, or the in-camera processor (which relies heavily on camera settings, saturation, contrast, mode, etc.)
    Having said the above, you can still get very good, predictable results in your workflow. I have a few color management articles on my website that you might find very helpful. Check out the Introduction to Color Management and Monitor and Printer Profiling. In my opinion, a monitor calibration device is the minimum entry fee if you want decent color.
    http://www.dinagraphics.com/color_management.php
    Lou

  • Color management isn't helping me

    Hi there, someone please help me out?
    I'm designing in illustrator CS3 on Windows 7 64-bit. I'm having difficulty syncing color with my network printing, a Sharp MX-5500N. No matter how I tweak the color management settings in the print dialogue, I always seem to get the same result. The only way I can get satisfactory results is if I change apply the color profile of the printer to the document I am working in and then completely redo the colors of my artwork. But no matter what, when I try to export the artwork to PNG and place it in a Microsoft Word or Publisher File, it prints completely bogus, purple is way too blue. Should windows color management prevent this? What am I doing wrong?
    Thanks
    Dalton

    Hi Emil, sorry I disappeared, I've kind of had to put this on the backburner, but now I have process pantone swatches to compare to and know a little better what I'm doing.
    Here is where I am at:
    I used the Adobe bridge to find the closest CMYK values to my Pantone colour. On my screen, they look completely wrong compared to my swatch, which is most likely my display's fault. (I can't seem to get it calibrated; this has obviously been part of my problem) Anyways, these values print completely wrong. So I tried using ai’s conversion tools both how you described and just in the print dialogue. The result is slightly better, but still awful. I see that the profile conversion does work quite similar to the conversion in the print dialogue. It is converting the colours, but not properly. Also, I tried that cool web program, but it was unable to read my printers icm file.
    My conclusion is that for whatever reason the colour conversion isn’t working with this printer. So I went ahead and painstaking found out what CMYK values print closest to our pantone from this printer, something the conversion should be doing for me. I found a value I like, so as long as I print from illustrator and preserve CMYK values I am happy. It doesn’t matter whether I pick SWOP or the printer’s icm in the dialogue under “printer’s colour profile” I get the same result. I believe this is because, since everything I am printing is illustrator shapes, no colour management takes place. (Don’t feel bad telling me I am wrong if I am)
    BUT
    How can I get these same results once I export the PNG?
    I appreciate your PDF suggestion Emil, but no one else where I work will be able to do that. They need to be able to drag the PNG into a document, click print, and get the right results. So I need find out what I need to set the colours to in illustrator to export them and get PNGs that print.
    So I sort of did what you suggested Emil, I converted them to the printer profile and then exported them. The results were better but still not great.
    However, I am able to export JPEGs and TIFFs no problem, whether or not I embed the profile. They print fine. However, I need transparency. Metafiles, whatever that is, has the same problems as PNG.
    Thanks for all your help Emil, I guess my new and final question for you, or anyone, is: How can I export to a file that supports transparency with reliable colours?

  • Desperately Seeking Color Management Help: iMac G5

    I need some input concerning color management.
    I need to find a way to match the output from
    a Fuji Frontier 390 printer to the display
    on my iMac G5 so that "what I see is what I get".
    I use a Canon EOS 1D Mark II to capture, and I make
    minimal corrections to levels or contrast in
    Adobe Photoshop Elements 2.0, and I find that some
    prints look muddy or oversaturated coming out of the
    Frontier, even though they look fine on the iMac's display.
    I understand the basic concept of color management and I know that I "should" be able to get the display dialed in to match the printer using Color Sync or some other utility, but I need help with the specifics.
    A FujiFilm technician explained to me that I could download a printer profile for the 390 from Fuji's website and use that with my image editor but it seems that I am unable to do that while using the "blue collar" Photoshop Elements package. I think that I would have to upgrade to the full Photoshop package (though I'm not totally certain) and I'm really not too interested in doing that.
    Could I get some pointers from any of you color gurus out there? Any info will definitely be appreciated!
    Thanks, Alan

    I didn't mention that I am also a photofinisher and
    I am the one doing the printing on the Frontier,
    so I know the chemistry and the paper are all
    "up to snuff". I also have seen the info on
    drycreekphoto.com and they say that I cannot
    do what I am wanting to do with my Photoshop Elements
    because that program isn't robust enough for it.
    The Frontier generates an "upkeep" print with each paper- or emulsion-change; I was wondering if I could employ one of those prints to set a benchmark for my iMac monitor, or if I would go about it some other way. I'm hoping to get some nuts-and-bolts suggestions from someone who has already dialed their iMac in to match a Frontier; I figure there must be a few out there!
    Thanks for your suggestions,
    Alan

  • Help - monitor calibration-color management disaster!

    I'm hoping someone can help me with this problem that is driving me nuts.  I'm trying to get my monitor calibrated so that what I see on the screen, in terms of color hue/tint/saturation and overall brightness, is what I get out of the printer when I print a photograph.  Right now, what I see on my screen has no relationship to what comes out of my printer.  In order to get one decent print, I'm having to print 3 or 4 test runs to adjust color, brightness, saturation and balance.  It's ridiculously time-consuming and wasteful of paper and ink.  There has to be a better way.
    Here's my situation:  I have Photoshop Elements 8, and am running it on Windows 7 OS.  I have a ViewSonic flat screen monitor and an Epson r1900 printer that is dedicated to photographs only.  I've bought and installed HueyPro to calibrate the monitor, but the results were not good.  After installing HueyPro and running the calibration, the results it gave me are useless for both viewing the monitor and printing pictures.  There is an obvious blue cast to the monitor screen image, and the oranges and reds are oversaturated and neon bright.  The image on the screen looks like the dog's dinner.  When I try to print with that screen profile, the pictures are overly dark, and the skin tones have a grayish and bluish cast that makes them look like the work of a beginning embalmer.  I have PE8 set to always optimize for print and my camera is set to Adobe color management.
    In order to adjust, I've turned the HueyPro calibration off.  For every picture I want to print, I have to open it in RAW, select the Vivid or #3 calibration, max out the fill shadows and adjust the exposure.  Then, I save it to Photoshop, where I use layer-screen to lighten the picture - sometimes twice.  What I see on my screen is a washed out, faded image that looks horrible in every respect.  But, when I print it, I get a good if not great picture with decent brightness and colors.
    I'd rate my results as a C - maybe a B- on a very good day.  That's after all of the jiggling and tweaking.  Before, the results are an F, but only because that's the lowest score possible.  This can't be the best that is possible.  There has to be something out there that I'm not doing right, or something that I'm not doing at all.  I'll take any and all help/advice.

    Would that cause the disconnect between what I see on my screen and what the printer produces?
    It should not.
    Is either PE8 or the printer the better option, or does it matter?
    I would experiment with both.  As long as it is just one of them at a time. Good luck!
    Juergen

  • Color management on LCD displays, need help

    Dear all,
    I know the same topic has been already raised so many times, but i just can't help to ask it again. I am sorry for that, I just realize I will at least get a concept of what to do next. Ppl here are helpful.
    I don't own any Apple monitor. I have a Macmini, connected to a new SONY LCD display, SDM-HS95P, by DVI connector.
    As everyone knows the situation of LCD monitors. They have higher contrast, brigther image that traditional CRT monitors. That's why photographers and graphic designers are blaming all the time.
    And now, I face the same as they do. My monitor is no more "WYSIWYG". The red i have here, may become another red on printing. The yellow I have here, may become orange on CRT.
    I calibrated with the Colorsync of OSX, I decreased the contrast and bright level of my monitor, but they dont help much.
    Someone suggested here to purchase color management hardwares. Of coz i know they are helpful. But the point is, how can a little student to afford a such expensive hardware for only doing color management?
    Apple displays are all in LCD these days, how does Apple help their users to overcome the mentioned situation?
    I know this maybe just a never-ending question, but i think ppl here may come up with some new ideas in resolving this.
    Please kindly help, much appreciate! Thanks!
    regards,
    KKCHUNG
    Macmini 1.25 GHZ/ 1GB ram   Mac OS X (10.4.3)  

    Hi.
    Apple cinema displays do not offer the user the ability to adjust the contrast. You need to be able to adjust contrast when calibrating the 2nd monitor to match the target white and black luminence values of the first monitor.
    Contrast is needed in order to adjust the white luminence value of the monitor you are calibrating. You need to be able to adjust the black and white luminence values of monitor 2 when using the white and black luminence target values from monitor 1 if you want both monitors to be calibrated so that they use the same (same but seperate) profiles.
    Colorvision (makers of spyder2 pro) has indicated that this is a huge issue with the ACD monitors and they are currently researching a workaround.
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