Color workflow validation

Hi all. First time post here.
Being self-taught sometimes means having to unlearn bad habits learned from various forums and the good ol' internet, right?
I need some help "validating" my current color workflow, to see whether I'm actually wasting too much time and energy on the wrong habits (probably am!), after having recently seen a colleague of mine use something utterly different as workflow.
Got my screen and printer calibrated right now, and my color settings in Illustrator and Photoshop matching. Basic so far.
Now when I start a new project in Illustrator, I go through my swatch book (4-color process guide book) to pick out a CMYK build I like and apply that to my design. The color up on the screen doesn't really match at all my swatch book (I know, different gamut), but I'm basing myself on the swatch book so I know what I'm aiming for... (& let me make it clear; I do not actually use any spot colors in my final layout, just a small square of it somewhere for referencing purposes only).
Finally, I go to Photoshop once the designing is done and use the color picker to find the closest Pantone match (for solid coated).
So then I return to AI, and apply that Pantone color off my artboard for my printer to have as reference, if needed. The breakdown of that PMS color is never really spot-on the CMYK build I initially started with - it's usually off by 5-10%. Normal I imagine.
For instance, I chose CMYK build 100/70/0/0 in my guide book. That gives me PMS 2945 in PS. When I click "OK" in PS, PMS 2945 becomes 100/70/17/3 in its equivalency as CMYK. Pretty close but not perfect.
When I go back to AI and apply swatch 2945 and click "Convert to CMYK", the breakdown suddenly gives me 100/45/0/14. A little too far off for my tastes, but hey...
Reason I do all these steps is because the colors I pick out in the swatch books to begin with never match what I see on screen, so my clients always freak out when they receive soft proofs and then see the finished printed results. The colors always look a wee bit lighter on screen than on print.
I'm aware that screen representation is pretty much useless even with proper calibration (for lack of better wording), but can I fully trust and base myself on my swatch books - considering that the stock I'm printing on is different, etc, etc? Especially because I'm dealing with blues right now...
Would you(s) say this is a somewhat correct workflow or utterly ridiculous workflow? (And please be gentle if going the ridiculous route ).
And if so, how would you(s) start a project from scratch??
Thanks guys!

First I think you have badly calibrated system. With properly calibrated system what you see on your monitor should give a very good representation of your final colors, although for offset print you should always have a print proof accepted from your print shop. I use print proof not because I don't trust my monitor but because it requires client approval and the print shop can guaranty the color match. Obviously there is a difference between colors produced by emitting light vs reflecting but the eye has a good adaptive system of recognizing the same colors produced differently and proper color management takes this into account. If your standards are very high a proper calibration and viewing environment should give you a very good screen representation of the final result. Many Artists and designers create colors successfully referring entirly to monitors.
type_uk wrote:
Finally, I go to Photoshop once the designing is done and use the color picker to find the closest Pantone match (for solid coated).
So then I return to AI, and apply that Pantone color off my artboard for my printer to have as reference, if needed. The breakdown of that PMS color is never really spot-on the CMYK build I initially started with - it's usually off by 5-10%. Normal I imagine.
For instance, I chose CMYK build 100/70/0/0 in my guide book. That gives me PMS 2945 in PS. When I click "OK" in PS, PMS 2945 becomes 100/70/17/3 in its equivalency as CMYK. Pretty close but not perfect.
When I go back to AI and apply swatch 2945 and click "Convert to CMYK", the breakdown suddenly gives me 100/45/0/14. A little too far off for my tastes, but hey...
Reason I do all these steps is because the colors I pick out in the swatch books to begin with never match what I see on screen, so my clients always freak out when they receive soft proofs and then see the finished printed results. The colors always look a wee bit lighter on screen than on print...
I'm not sure why you are even using Photoshop for that but , Illustrator is much more accurate than Photoshop when matching RGB and CMYK to Pantone colors. Also have in mind that the Pantone match depends on your color settings. The color managed program you are using for matching Pantone color will use the display color space of your image, in combination with your monitor profile to figure out the best Pantone color match based on the assumption of how the color is displayed on the monitor and seen by the user. So the Pantone match may be different for each user if the color settings are set differently. Photoshop will choose Pantone 2945 C for your CMYK color if the image is assumed to be displayed in U.S.Web Coated (SWAP) v2 color space. Change that to something else and the Pantone match will be different. Interestingly though, Illustrator with the same settings picks Pantone 2728 C which is much more closer to the original color. I'm not sure as to why Photoshop is that much off - ask the Photoshop programmers, but this is why I always use Illustrator for color conversions.

Similar Messages

Proper color workflow with CMYK inkjet printer

Hi, I work in an academic science group that has a networked HP DesignJet 800ps printer (postscript RIP). Unlike many inkjets, it appears to be a true CMYK printer - that is, our i1 Match software recognizes it as a CMYK device. We do all our printing in house - we don't have to worry about commercial printing or publishing, and our color management needs are basically confined to trying to have the printer's output match what we see on our monitors when we print photos in Photoshop or posters in Illustrator.
Having previously worked only with RGB printers and in Photoshop, I am pretty much lost now as to how to set up our color management workflow. (And don't even ask about my colleagues. :-)) I've never had to worry about either CMYK workspaces or printers before. I want to keep things as simple as possible for the staff here, given that none, including myself, are graphics specialists.
I've looked at the "Color Workflows for Adobe Creative Suite 3" document published by Adobe, and although it is very meticulous, none of the examples seem to match our situation. Specifically, all the info regarding CMYK printing involves working with commercial presses, which is not relevant to us.
I would like to avoid making my colleagues work in different color spaces depending on whether they are working in Illustrator or Photoshop - ideally, I would like it if we could stay in RGB at all times. First question: Is this unrealistic given that we have a CMYK printer?
No doubt I will have more questions, but I want to start simple for now. Thanks for helping me out - this is not my area of expertise.

> profile them as RGB devices" (to quote the book). The printers that I've profiled in the past with i1 worked this way.
As Peter points out in his post, it is most likely that your RIP is a CMYK RIP (most RIP's are.) If that is the case, you'll be profiling a CMYK device, not an RGB device (as you have in the past.) It is a totally different exercise to profile a CMYK device - ink limits and Kgen are variables that must be dealt with.
> Yes, details would be very helpful. Thanks.
Color management is all about moving from one device/color space to another device/color space while maintaining color appearance as closely as possible.
1) Based on the description of your workflow, step one is to create your original art in a well-behaved RGB color space (like Adobe98) while viewing it on a well-calibrated monitor.
2) If your final output is to be on the HP 800ps, step two would be to preview that art on your monitor as it would look on the HP. This is called soft-proofing - a process by which the art is viewed through the HP profile on-screeen so you can see what happens to all those beautiful, rich RGB colors when they're squeezed into the smaller gamut of the HP profile.
To do this, you go to View > Proof Set-Up > Custom, and choose the HP 800ps profile from the pop-up of all the profiles on your system. You can also choose from among 4 rendering intents - Relative Colorimetric, Perceptual, Absolute Colorimetric, and Saturation. Choosing the correct rendering intent is key - this willl determine how Photoshop deals with the out-of-gamut colors. Without getting into an explanation of what each RI does, the important thing is to choose the one that LOOKS the best on screen. There's no magic to it. In general, for photographic images, you'll be choosing from Relative or Perceptual. For vector graphics (which it sounds like you're doing), throw Saturation into the mix as well. Just try them and see which looks best.
Additionally, be sure to check "Black Point Compensation."
This will give you a good idea of what the final printed version will look like. While you're in soft-proof mode, you can edit the RGB file to alter the way out-of-gamut colors appear. In fact, there's no reason why you couldn't create your art from the beginning while in soft-proof mode. Using a well-built profile and a good calibrated monitor, you should be able to get an extremely close match between monitor and print.
3) When you print, be sure to choose the same profile/rendering intent that you used in Proof Setup.
Again, it all starts with a good profile. Good luck.

Change color for validation box

Hi,
I am using JDev 11.1.1.6.0.
If i have required="true" validation on an input text, Red color box surrounds and shows the validation.
Is there any way to change the color of that box?
Thanks
Nitish

If there is any you have to use skinning. For this you have to find out which selector is used for the box. You can disable the style compression in your web.xml and run the app, then when you see the box use firebug or any other tool which allows to inspect the page elements. If you select the box you should see the style class names. They normally are the same as the corresponding skin selectors (there is a syntax difference, but you get it when you see it )
Timo

Fcp to Color workflow

I have 20 videos that I need to color correct, and am a neophyte in color... My questions are real simple, just trying to buckle down a workflow.
I have a sequence in fcp. Do I have to add in all transitions prior to sending to Color (does Color embed back in fcp as a single output sequence)?
I shot the footage with two cameras. Do, or should I, place A camera on one line, and B camera on another in fcp, and then send to Color to make anything easier?
I will be using some simple alpha animations to the video. Should I do this after color correction? Or should I place above the footage on the timeline and just highlight the clips I want to send to color?
Thanks in advance!

YOu need something more than a reply on a forum... you need a tutorial on how to use COLOR. Get this:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/66/stop_staring_and_start_grading_with_apple_colo r
- You send to Color when you have locked picture...meaning editing is done. All transitions should be in place. Color will remove them, then put them back when it renders out the video. Each clip is rendered individually, it isn't rendered out as one long piece.
Put all the footage on ONE track if you can. Two if you must. But one track makes things easier. And all the footage must match EXACTLY...meaning same codec, frame size, frame rate.
Remove all graphics from the timeline before you send to Color...including Alpha transitions. Add them back when you render out from Color.

Simply question: how can I change color of validation message ?

After validation user has got for example text: "Wrong data" in black color. How can I change this color on red ?

You can enclose your validation error message within a span tag as follows
<span style="color:red;">error message</span>Varad

Color workflow process status

Hello,
i want adding some color to the workflow process status.
I find a link (http://www.orahyplabs.com/2010/08/customize-workflow-in-hyperion-planning.html) ...that explains how to do this...and so I'm wondering how access to two tables HSP_PM_ACTIONS
and
HSP_PM_STATES
Cheers,

in SQL Server I executed the code:
update HSP_PM_STATES set COLOR = 'BLUE'
where name = 'First Pass'
update HSP_PM_STATES set COLOR = 'ORANGE'
where name = 'Under Review'
update HSP_PM_STATES set COLOR = 'GREEN'
where name = 'Approved'
update HSP_PM_STATES set COLOR = 'PURPLE'
where name = 'Signed Off'
update HSP_PM_STATES set COLOR = 'RED'
where name = 'Not Signed Off'
there's the color of the status 'First Pass' is changed to 'Blue'. the color of other statutes not.
I verified the syntax of the names of various statutes ... it's okay
why the other colors are not displayed
i use Version 11.1.1.3
cheers,

DPX - Glue Tools - Final Cut - Color workflow problem

Hello all,
I haven't worked much with DPX since the Final Cut Studio 2 update and have now come upon an urgent problem.
I need to import 16bit DPX files into Final Cut, cut them on the timeline, then send to Color and back to FCP after correction.
I've tried this in serveral ways which lead to different problems.
First approach:
- Import DPX Sequence via Glue Tools DPX Import of Final Cut Pro 7
- Drop on timeline
- Send to Color
- Opens just fine, color correct, render
- Send to Final Cut Pro
It switches to Final Cut, but doesn't open the new corrected sequence.
Second approach:
- Instead of sending the corrected movie to Final Cut, Export XML
- Import XML into Final Cut
Again it switches to Final Cut, but I get the following error message (translation from German): The xml transformation has been cancelled due to a serious error.
Third approach:
Because I don't have much time at the moment I thought I'd just go back to the older workflow of putting the dpx files into a mov container first (I haven't worked much with dpx since FCS2).
So I opened one of the dpx files with QT7 and exported into an uncompressed mov file and already have the first problem.
It seems to cut off all the shadows. When I open the newly exported mov file with QT7 and compare it with the still open dpx sequence it looks even more flat than the dpx files and seems to has lost all shadow detail.
When I drop the mov file into FCP, send to Color and try to get some contrast into the film the shadows look completely crushed.
Sending back to Final Cut works now though.
I've searched through the archive and read the Glue Tools manual again, but nothing I try seems to work.
I use the newest Glue Tools version and the settings are standard. Changing them doesn't seem to influence exporting to a mov file anyway.
Any hint would be much appreciated!

So I opened one of the dpx files with QT7 and exported into an uncompressed mov file and already have the first problem.
it looks even more flat than the dpx files and seems to has lost all shadow detail.
It "looks" even more flat and seems to have lost shadow detail?
You are not measuring values with a scope? In other words you're "flying blind.''
Sounds like an RGB/Y'CbCr scaling problem -- Probably the dpx files are full range and the QT is being rendered Linear so the black "0" is actually being mapped to about minus 10 IRE and your white vales won't be able to make it much above 85-90 units. There will also be a gamma difference. If you were scoping these values, they'd be instantly obvious.
jPo

Best color workflow with hdv source material?

Hi,
I am wondering about the best workflow for working with hdv material in color?
My first Color experience, I sent a AIC timeline (hdv source) to color, made my corrections, clicked NO when sending back to fcp when asked if I wanted the rendered timeline to be conformed to color render settings (apple pro-res) as I wanted the same sequence settings back in fcp.
I then tried to off/online back to my source hdv capture files, and therein arose the problems. Because color had renamed the files, the new names came up in the re-connect media window, not the hdv source. When ignoring these and locating the hdv source, the corrections were not attached.
After advice, tried onlining the original, locked edit, opening in color - files came up red (offline?), but could not apply the grades from the previous project anyway, as the whole program crashed before I could do anything?
Thoughts on workflow, theories on what I may have done wrong greatly appreciated.
Lastly, a lot of noise appeared in some clips I adjusted in color, which did not occur when making similar corrections to the same clips using the 3-way color corrector within fcp itself.
How come?
Thanks for listening,
-Tom

Hi Tom, agree 100% with all of JP OWENS comments on this thread. This is very good advice.
Myself, coming from the dark side of a SONY HDV (HVR-Z1P) and DUMPING the SONY for a Panasonic DVCPROHD HVX-200 iFRAME HD format 66mbs and 110Mbs DVCPROHD 4:2:2 CODEC was primarily because when using COLOR on the HDV it was as dreadful as JP OWENS says it is.
As as has been mentioned in this thread, for working with HDV and trying to perform any reasonable grading using color.app you would indeed move it all to  PRORES422 by either:
• ingesting it as proposed from the source as APPLE PRORES 422 or
• ingesting and then BATCH CONVERTING in FCP (or go via a COMPRESSOR.app DROPLET - a favourite of mine) and THEN importing that into FCP.
It gives you these workflow advantages (again pointed out by Mr Owens):
• iFRAME format editing in FCP is "faster" (not GoPs to play with in 25Mbs MPEG2 HDV)) and
• workflow transcoding is faster. (many threads in these forums concerning exporting from an HDV timeline).
However to roughly quote Stu Maschwitz (his DV REBEL book) "+..converting DV to a near loss-less codec is a bit like carrying a golf ball around in a streamer trunk+".. applying this to HDV as well simply meaning that there is also NOT much colour information to work with in grading.correction applications like color.app.
Thus there is NO colour benefit from working in prores 422 from HDV source.
IN short, work in PRORES422 from your HDV source and your workflow will improve and efficiencies will be seen.
hth
w

FCP - Color Workflow?

Ok, I'll try to be as descriptive as possible in my explanation of my workflow. I'm working on color grading a small independent film for a friend. Since we both of Apple computers, we are using FCP and Color. The directory is doing all the editing on her Macbook Pro. I'm doing all the color grading on my Mac Pro. We are both working on external 1Tb hard drives (1 for editing, 1 for grading).
She starts by editing the film. I already have a copy of her FCP project (and all media files) on my external hard drive. So when she tweaks and edits a sequence, I just copy her FCP project onto my external. I then open her project and export an XML from FCP to reconform with Color.
Color reconforms the XML fine. It was my knowledge that to get from my Color to her FCP, that I would just need to render my Color project, give her the XML that Color creates for her to import into FCP. Unfortunately that is not as smooth as I was hoping. As soon as she imports the XML into FCP, it is constantly trying to reconnect the media. No problem until I realize that the render in Color produced .movs on my external. I proceed to copy those onto her external and they are not able to link up. I keep getting the error that there is a difference in audio - video tracks.
I wish the workflow was easier between both programs when they are on different computers. It just seems that they are not meant to handle a project that is edited and graded on different machines. Does anybody have any suggestions to improve the workflow? I'm sure I could be doing something wrong, but I searched and read and could not find much info about working on different computers. Thanks for any help.

The issue that you are facing is that you did not realize that COLOR would render new media, and it is all video ONLY.
The workflow that succeeds for sharing projects is one in which the media moves with the project.
You do not need to move everything everytime. There is a strategy using "Media Manager". Your production partner should "Media Manage" the locked project to the transport drive. You would open that and create a target directory on that drive for COLOR. Render your graded COLOR version to it, do a Send To... FCP, where it will create a new (from COLOR) sequence in the original FCP project and return the whole shebang to the editor. Beware that there may be some panning issues with the XML -reconnected audio. In that case, copy the audio from the original FCP (for COLOR) into the new (from COLOR) sequence. Or bake it out from the original and drop it into the new graded sequence, or wait for the finished wav from the audio post house.... oh, wait a minute, you're probably not getting the audio mixed or sweetened, but whatever.
There is another, cumbersome, workflow and that has to do with creating a "Final Gather" Quicktime for export. Mostly that option is employed with dpx sequences, since you will by now have probably figured out that COLOR somewhat inconveniently renders each new QT into its own subfolder, which makes them a tiny bit inaccessible for most manual reconnection approaches. To be honest, I haven't used it for so long, that I'm not sure that it works for QT anymore. Worth looking up in the Manual.
Would you mind exploring that for me?
jPo

FCP - Color Workflow Question

I have DVCPRO HD sequences in FCP that I have applied Smoothcam filter to in many instances (one 10 minute sequence probably has Smoothcam applied to at least 15 of the clips). With over 4 hours of footage and Smoothcam applied often it would seem very labor intensive to have to create individual Quicktime movies for each of the clips where Smoothcam is applied and then drop those into the FCP timeline before sending to Color (especially as I will likely have to tweak the Color settings multiple times before getting the perfect outcome).
My sense is that I may be able to minimize the workload by:
1) creating one Quicktime movie of say an entire sequence with multiple instances of the Smoothcam fliter applied (instead of creating individual Quicktime movies of each clip where Smoothcam is applied)
2) sending that Quicktime movie to Color for grading
My question under the scenario directly above is how do you then split the Quicktime movie into the individual clips in Color so that each clip can be graded individually?
The only other alternative I can see is to:
1) remove all of the Smoothcam filters (and sharpening filters) in the FCP timeline
2) send sequence to Color for grading
3) roundtrip to FCP
4) apply Smoothcam filter (and sharpening filters) to all of the individual clips again after color grading is totally complete
I am a little daunted by the thought of this with over 4 hours of DVCPRO HD footage. Your suggestions regarding the best and most efficient workflow would be greatly appreciated.

Not quite six of one and half a case of the other, but you are in for some effort either way. Thomas Edison had an observation about "opportunity" arriving dressed in coveralls, but most people take a pass on it because it looks like "too much work".
If you elect the "bake out one big QT file" workflow, there is some efficiency to bringing the new QT onto a copy of the originating timeline and using that as a cutting guide to "razor in" the event boundaries, and then send that to COLOR. It will save a significant amount of re-rendering time.
If you remove the Smoothcam and other filters and send the raw source media to COLOR, that would be a normal workflow. I'd imagine there will be a significant amount of "attribute" copying after the fact, and of course all the smoothcams will have to go through "re-analysis". (I'd send a duplicate sequence, so the original filtered sequence can act as a source.)
The smoothcam filter will probably yield a different rendition on the COLOR-graded media, since the Boolean re-scaling (to keep the image within the active picture area) may not exhibit the same behaviour -- since you will only be dealing with the selected footage, rather than the entire source clip.
Sending the clips with an attached Smoothcam filter would probably result in massive render times, since FCP requires the entire intact source media to compute the stabilizing script, similar to sending a clip with a speed adjustment.
jPo

FCP + After Effects + Color Workflow Question

Forgive me if this is a naive question. I would like to know what is the best way to work between FCP, Color, and After Effects. This is the first project I'm working on that requires all three applications.
All my shots are done in DVCPro HD and imported into FCP. DVCPro is not really supported in Color so I learned that they should be converted to ProRes (right?). In Color I will be adding a vignette effect and color grading so I know it has to be last otherwise my texts and mattes in AE will look like they're on top of the video.
My problem with that is almost every shot will have an AE effect in it so it's easier to dump the whole timeline into AE using popcorn's XML script. But once I export it from AE and put it back into FCP it is one clip but color correction and effects has to be done differently for each clip and I can't do that in Color with the single AE clip I just rendered. So I'm kind of lost, is my only option to add effects in AE one clip at a time and return them to FCP?
Also am I right that Color only supports Apple ProRes? DVCPro HD hasn't worked so far.
Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
DP

Hello David.
Regarding your question about DVCPro HD support, it is supported as an Importable format, but Color cannot render out in DVCPro HD. Color supports ProRes across the board. Here's a list of supported formats:
http://documentation.apple.com/en/color/usermanual/index.html#chapter=4%26sectio n=9%26tasks=true
After Effects really isn't part of my normal workflow, so I can't really comment on it, other than I've had a lot of problems with 10.0.1 and ProRes. That problem has caused me to eliminate AE from any workflow that I use here.

Conforming timeline for Color (workflow INSANITY!)

Hi all, I've got a doozie of a workflow issue here, hopefully someone can offer a good piece of advice, it'd be a huuuge help!
What I've got going on is this - working on a 3D animated TV show, the producers decided they wanted to be able to color correct the characters, environments, and props all separately, prior to final color correction. We tried doing this in color, but color is unable to import mattes, so that option was out. What we had to do was layer our shots with B&W mattes in FCP, using composite mode -> Luma travel matte, and CC each layer using the 3-way CC, which has been working fantastically. Now, we need to send the projects to Color for a final pass prior to sending off our master. (I know this is NOT an ideal workflow, believe me, it was simply the only way to do what they needed to be done at this point)
The thing is, I need to send the entire composite image into color, not the multiple tracks. I'd like to do this without bouncing each shot, scene or the entire episode individually, unless there's an automated way to do so. (it'd be nice to be able to correct any small shot-to-shot difference if possible afterwards, though the differences should be minor, if any exist at all). The most important is scene-to-scene CC. Is there a command to conform down each edit, merging all the layers into a single clip and in effect bouncing all layers?
Thanks in advance folks,
-Kris

DVCPROHD tapes are compressed 6:1 and are 8-bit at 960x720. Capturing that as uncompressed would essentially yield pixel interpolated results. 960x720 will be stretched to 1280x720 and your signal may be "cleaner" (I think it is 150mb/s uncompressed), but it is 8-bit compressed footage being "upconverted", so to speak, to an uncompressed format.
I know people who have used DVCPROHD tapes to go to film with, but I also know people who swear against it. Personally, I've never tried. My work is DVCPROHD with the VariCam, but I rarely have a need for uncompressed material.
~Athen

Workflow Validation - Need Help

I'm fairly new to video editing. Everything below I figured out through trial and error until I found a sequence that seems to work well. I just want to know if it's the best I can make it. Storage space is a non-issue. I have no intention of burning to DVD. I'm not interested in sound settings right now. All of the videos sound good enough. I'll mess with that once I've got this workflow tweaked.
I want the following three files at the end of my projects.
1) HD Quality MP4 files that I can play on a PC or PS3. I chose MP4 because that's the only format so far that I've found that the PS3 plays. I'm open for recommendations. These should always be deinterlaced.
2) Good Quality MP4 files that I can post on my webserver for relatives to download and watch.
3) The best master copy I can get from FCE for future edits. Is this a good idea?
My Hardware/Software:
Television - 1080p 65" JVC
Mac - Macbook Pro 17" C2D 2.5g / 4g Ram
FCE 4.0.1
Toast Titanium 9
Camcorder: HG10 1920x1440 60i (Most of my filming is of kids running around. Open for discussion on 24p?) I've been archiving M2TS files from this camcorder for a year. I do not have the original file structure for my archived footage, just the M2TS files. In the future I can import direct to FCE (Tested it and it works fine), but I like the idea of having my source M2TS files with 5.1 sound in-tact.
MediaInfo 0.7.7.58
Step 1: Use Toast 9 to convert M2TS to .MOV for import into FCE. MediaInfo on source M2TS Files:
General / Container Stream # 1
Total Video Streams for this File -> 1
Total Audio Streams for this File -> 1
Video Codecs Used -> AVC
Audio Codecs Used -> AC3
File Format -> BDAV
Play Time -> 19s 170ms
Total File Size -> 35.4 MiB
Total Stream BitRate -> 15.5 Mbps
Video Stream # 1
Codec (Human Name) -> AVC
Codec Profile -> [email protected]
Frame Width -> 1 440 pixels
Frame Height -> 1 080 pixels
Frame Rate -> 29.970 fps
Total Frames -> 575
Display Aspect Ratio -> 16/9
Scan Type -> Interlaced
Scan Order -> TFF
Colorimetry -> 4:2:0
Codec Settings (Summary) -> CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Codec Settings (CABAC) -> Yes
Video Stream Length -> 19s 166ms
Video Stream BitRate -> 14.6 Mbps
Bit Depth -> 24 bits
Toast Conversion Settings:
Device QT Movie
Quality Custom
Compression AIC
Frame Rate 29.97
Key Frames All (I don't understand Key Frames)
Compressor HDV1080i
Interlaced is checked/greyed
Size HD1440x1080 16:9
Preserve = No
DeInterlace = No
MediaInfo on Toast AIC Export:
General / Container Stream # 1
Total Video Streams for this File -> 1
Total Audio Streams for this File -> 1
Video Codecs Used -> icod
Audio Codecs Used -> AAC LC
File Format -> QuickTime
Play Time -> 19s 63ms
Total File Size -> 240 MiB <------I guess I can delete these AIC files when my FCE project is done right?
Total Stream BitRate -> 105 Mbps
Title (Tag) -> 00071
Video Stream # 1
Codec (Human Name) -> icod
Codec (FourCC) -> icod
Frame Width -> 1 440 pixels
Frame Height -> 1 080 pixels
Frame Rate -> 29.970 fps
Total Frames -> 570
Display Aspect Ratio -> 4/3
QF (like Gordian Knot) -> 2.264
Video Stream Length -> 19s 19ms
Video Stream BitRate -> 106 Mbps
Video Stream BitRate Mode -> VBR
Video Stream Size -> 239 MiB (100%)
Date of Original Encoding -> UTC 2008-11-07 02:04:14
Step 2: Import to FCE
Select Sequence Preset - Apple Intermediate Codec 1920x1080i60
When I drop the clip on the timeline, I get:
"For best performance your sequence and External Video should be set to the format of the clips you are editing. Change sequence settings to match the clip settings?" - NO
edit FCE project and render
Step 3: Export to MP4 for PC and PS3 Playback
Export -> QT Conversion -> -Options
File Format - MP4
Video Format h.264
Data Rate 8000kb/s (Is this the best option?)
Image Size 1280x720HD (1920x1080 looks interlaced?)
Frame Rate 29.97 (Defaults to 30. Why?)
Key Frame Every 24 frames. (Why?)
Video Options
Restrict Profiles to Main (ipod?)
Encoding (Assume best quality is what I want? Why?)
Media Info on FCE MP4 Export:
General / Container Stream # 1
Total Video Streams for this File -> 1
Total Audio Streams for this File -> 1
Video Codecs Used -> AVC
Audio Codecs Used -> AAC LC
File Format -> MPEG-4
Play Time -> 19s 342ms
Total File Size -> 18.7 MiB
Total Stream BitRate -> 8 094 Kbps
Video Stream # 1
Codec (Human Name) -> AVC
Codec (FourCC) -> avc1
Codec Profile -> [email protected]
Frame Width -> 1 280 pixels
Frame Height -> 720 pixels
Frame Rate -> 29.970 fps
Total Frames -> 579
Display Aspect Ratio -> 16/9
Scan Type -> Progressive
Colorimetry -> 4:2:0
Codec Settings (Summary) -> 2 Ref Frames
QF (like Gordian Knot) -> 0.289
Codec Settings (CABAC) -> No
Video Stream Length -> 19s 319ms
Video Stream BitRate -> 7 973 Kbps
Video Stream BitRate Mode -> VBR
Bit Depth -> 24 bits
Video Stream Size -> 18.4 MiB (98%)
Video Stream Language -> English
Date of Original Encoding -> UTC 2008-11-07 02:18:44
Step 4: Export FCE to MP4 for Web Use:
Don't have this sorted out yet, but I reckon I'll use the QT Conversion with h.264, 640x480 or something slightly smaller with Preserve Aspect Ratio/Letterbox/Deinterlace
I know there are a ton of details here. If more is needed, please let me know.
Thanks for the help,
John

OK, I'll bite. I don't understand the point of Step 1 - Use Toast to convert from .M2TS to .MOV.
I could certainly be missing something, but M2TS and MOV are container formats. So you are really doing two things: converting the video/audio from AVC/AAC in an M2TS container to something FCE can edit, namely AIC in an MOV container. I don't understand this step. FCE's log and transfer does this exact same thing (convert AVCHD to AIC), except without the external software. So, why use Toast if FCE already does this? You can also add metadata to the clips as they are imported so you can make heads or tails of them later.
I'm still learning too. So I hope this reads as a question
-Nick
Message was edited by: Nick Pope

PDF Color Workflow for Customer Review

Let me preface this by saying I'm not a designer, so this question may be something that would normally be obvious to those of you with more experience.
I have to create some projects in InDesign that will ultimately be printed in CMYK. No real problem there. I can provide the printer with PDF output. I also need to have customers review the output before sending to the printer. The printer needs a high-quality, CMYK PDF. The customers need to see PDFs on their screen that give them confidence to know the colors are correct. When I export my docs to PDF, I use the Press Quality setting, with the Color Options set to Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers), with a Destination of U.S. Sheetfed Coated v2 and Include Destination Profile. That seems to work for the printer, but the colors seem washed out in the PDFs when viewed onscreen (prompting customers to say "could you make this a bit darker?").
Can someone either explain how I can change the output settings in InDesign for PDF to give a good onscreen representation of what will get printed, or point me in the right direction (or, if necessary, correct some incorrect assumptions I'm making)?
Thanks in advance.

Unless your clients have color calibrated monitors and set up color
management properly in Acrobat you're wasting your time.
Bob

The affect of failed validation on the page rendering phase

This is divided in two parts. In the first one I describe the behavior and in the second I show work around and make a suggestion.
The need that started this was that the value an item needed to be recalculated each time de page was shown. This page could be called from buttons and from branches on other pages. So the logical place to put this calculation is in Computation of the Page Rendering phase. But, when a validation failed the value wasn't shown on the browser and I later discovered it was not calculated at all. I tried moving the calculation in a Process of the Page Rendering phase, but to that didn't worked either. So I needed to have a beter understanding of happens when a validation fails, ence this test.
The test was done on version 3.1.2 of APEX.
For this test, here is what I programmed (if no values is specified, than the property has the default value):
1. I created a blank page
-- In the Page Rendering part --
2. I created a region with the following properties
Identification
- Title: Alpha
- Type: PL/SQL (Anonymous block)
Source
- Region Source: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER REGION Alpha SOURCE');
Conditional Display
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER REGION Alpha CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
Caching
- Caching: Cahed
- Cache Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER REGION Alpha CACHE CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
3. I created an item with the following properties
Name
- Name: P1_X
- Display As: Textfield
Displayed
- Region: Alpha
Source
- Source Used: Always, replacing any existing value in session state
- Source Type: PL/SQL Function body
- Source value or expression: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER ITEM P1_X SOURCE'); RETURN NULL;
- Post Calculation Computation: :P1_X || ' POST-CALCUL'
Default
- Default value: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER ITEM P1_X DEFAULT'); RETURN 'RENDER ITEM P1_X DEFAULT';
- Default Value Type: PL/SQL Function body
Conditions
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER ITEM P1_X CONDITION'); wwv_flow.debug('> P1_X="'||:P1_X||'"'); RETURN TRUE;
Read Only
- Read Only Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER ITEM P1_X READ_ONLY CONDITION'); RETURN FALSE;
4. I created a second item with the following properties
- Name: P1_Y
- Display As: Textfield
Displayed
- Region: Alpha
Source
- Source Used: Only when current value in session state is null
- Source Type: PL/SQL Function body
- Source value or expression: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER ITEM P1_Y SOURCE'); RETURN NULL;
- Post Calculation Computation: :P1_Y || ' POST-CALCUL'
Default
- Default value: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER ITEM P1_Y DEFAULT'); RETURN 'RENDER ITEM P1_Y DEFAULT';
- Default Value Type: PL/SQL Function body
Conditions
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER ITEM P1_Y CONDITION'); wwv_flow.debug('> P1_Y="'||:P1_Y||'"'); RETURN TRUE;
Read Only
- Read Only Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER ITEM P1_Y READ-ONLY CONDITION'); RETURN FALSE;
5. I created a button with the following properties
Name
- Button Name: GO
- Text Label/Alt: Go
Displayed
- Display in Region: Alpha
- Button Position: Top of Region
Conditions
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER BUTTON Go CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
6. I created a second button with the following properties
Name
- Button Name: GOERRNULL
- Text Label/Alt: Go invalid
Displayed
- Display in Region: Alpha
- Button Position: Top of Region
Conditions
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER BUTTON Go invalid CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
7. I created a thrid button with the following properties
Name
- Button Name: RESET
- Text Label/Alt: Reset cache
Displayed
- Display in Region: Alpha
- Button Position: Top of Region
Conditions
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER BUTTON Reset CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
Optional URL Redirect
- Target is a: Page in this Appplication
- Page: 1
- resetpagination for this page: checked
- Request: RESET
- Clear Cache: 1
8. I created a computation with the following properties
Item Name
- Item Name: P1_Y
- Type: PL/SQL Function body
Computation Point
- Computation Point:Before Header
Source
- Computation: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE'); RETURN 'RENDER CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE';
Conditional Computations
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER CALCUL P1_Y CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
9. I created a process
Name
- Name: Beta
- Type: PL/SQL anonymous block
Process Point
- Process Point: On Load - Before Header
- Run Process: Once Per Page Visit (Default)
Source
- Process: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER PROC Beta SOURCE');
Conditional Processing
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER PROC Beta CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
-- In the Page Processing part --
10. I created a computation
Item Name
- Item Name: P1_Y
- Type: PL/SQL Function body
Computation Point
- Computation Point:After Submit
Source
- Computation: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE'); RETURN 'PROC CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE';
Conditional Computations
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC CALCUL P1_Y CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
11. I created a second computation
Item Name
- Item Name: P1_X
- Type: PL/SQL Function body
Computation Point
- Computation Point:After Submit
Source
- Computation: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC CALCUL P1_X SOURCE'); RETURN NULL;
Conditional Computations
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC CALCUL P1_X CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
12. I created a validation
Validation
- Name: Delta
- Type: Function Returning Boolean
- Validation Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC VALIDATION Delta SOURCE'); RETURN FALSE;
Error Message
- Error Message: err msg
- Associated Item: P1_X
Conditionals
- When Button Pressed: GOERRNULL (Go invalid)
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC VALIDATION Delta CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
13. I created a process
Name
- Name: Gamma
- Type: PL/SQL anonymous block
Process Point
- Process Point: On Submit - Before Computation and Validations
- Run Process: Once Per Page Visit (Default)
Source
- Process: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC PROC Gamma SOURCE');
Conditional Processing
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC PROC Gamma CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
14. I created a second process
Name
- Name: Epsylon
- Type: PL/SQL anonymous block
Process Point
- Process Point: On Submit - After Computation and Validations
- Run Process: Once Per Page Visit (Default)
Source
- Process: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC PROC Epsylon SOURCE');
Conditional Processing
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC PROC Epsylon CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
15. I created a branch
Point
- Branch Point: On Submit: After Processing (After Computation, Validation and Processiong)
Action
- Target Type: Page in this Application
- Page: 1
- include process success message: checked
Conditions
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC BRANCH P1 CONDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
As can be seen, I've programmed all condition to be true and therefore making all objects do thier calculations.
Here is the debug output when we click on "Go". (a line number was added for easy refence)
{color:#999999}001 0.05: A C C E P T: Request="GO"
002 0.09: Metadata: Fetch application definition and shortcuts
003 0.09: NLS: wwv_flow.g_flow_language_derived_from=FLOW_PRIMARY_LANGUAGE: wwv_flow.g_browser_language=en-us
004 0.09: alter session set nls_language="AMERICAN"
005 0.09: alter session set nls_territory="AMERICA"
006 0.09: NLS: CSV charset=WE8MSWIN1252
007 0.09: ...NLS: Set Decimal separator="."
008 0.09: ...NLS: Set NLS Group separator=","
009 0.09: ...NLS: Set date format="DD-MON-RR"
010 0.09: ...Setting session time_zone to -05:00
011 0.09: ...Determine if user "FORD10" workspace "80447903191151509" can develop application "202" in workspace "80447903191151509"
012 0.09: Session: OK to reuse builder session for user:APEX_PUBLIC_USER
013 0.09: Fetch session state from database
014 0.10: ...Check session 2800365259756461 owner
015 0.10: ...Metadata: Fetch Page, Computation, Process, and Branch
016 0.10: Session: Fetch session header information
017 0.10: ...Metadata: Fetch page attributes for application 202, page 1
018 0.10: ...Validate item page affinity.
019 0.10: ...Validate hidden_protected items.
020 0.10: ...Check authorization security schemes
021 0.10: Session State: Save form items and p_arg_values
022 0.10: ...Session State: Save Item "P1_X" newValue="RENDER ITEM P1_X DEFAULT POST-CALCUL" "escape_on_input="N"
023 0.10: ...Session State: Saved Item "P1_Y" New Value="RENDER CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE POST_CALCUL"
024 0.10: Processing point: ON_SUBMIT_BEFORE_COMPUTATION
025 0.11: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC PROC Gamma CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
026 0.11: ...Process "Gamma": PLSQL (ON_SUBMIT_BEFORE_COMPUTATION) wwv_flow.debug('> PROC PROC Gamma SOURCE');
027 0.11: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC PROC Gamma SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
028 0.11: Branch point: BEFORE_COMPUTATION
029 0.11: Computation point: AFTER_SUBMIT
030 0.11: ...Evaluate condition "FUNCTION_BODY" for computation of item: P1_Y
031 0.11: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC CALCUL P1_Y CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
032 0.11: ...Perform computation of item: P1_Y, type=FUNCTION_BODY
033 0.11: ...Performing function body computation
034 0.12: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
035 0.12: ...Session State: Saved Item "P1_Y" New Value="PROC CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE"
036 0.12: ...Evaluate condition "FUNCTION_BODY" for computation of item: P1_X
037 0.12: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC CALCUL P1_X CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
038 0.12: ...Perform computation of item: P1_X, type=FUNCTION_BODY
039 0.12: ...Performing function body computation
040 0.12: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC CALCUL P1_X SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
041 0.12: ...Session State: Saved Item "P1_X" New Value=""
042 0.12: Tabs: Perform Branching for Tab Requests
043 0.12: Branch point: BEFORE_VALIDATION
044 0.12: Perform validations:
045 0.12: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC VALIDATION Delta CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
046 0.12: ...PL/SQL "function body returning boolean" Validation: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC VALIDATION Delta SOURCE'); RETURN :REQUEST 'GOERRNULL';
047 0.12: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC VALIDATION Delta SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
048 0.13: Branch point: BEFORE_PROCESSING
049 0.13: Processing point: AFTER_SUBMIT
050 0.13: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC PROC Epsylon CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
051 0.13: ...Process "Epsylon": PLSQL (AFTER_SUBMIT) wwv_flow.debug('> PROC PROC Epsylon SOURCE');
052 0.13: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC PROC Epsylon SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
053 0.13: Branch point: AFTER_PROCESSING
054 0.13: ...Evaluating Branch: AFTER_PROCESSING type: "REDIRECT_URL" button: (No Button Pressed) branch: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC BRANCH P1 C5NDITION'); RETURN TRUE;
055 0.14: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC BRANCH P1 CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
0.00:
0.00: S H O W: application="202" page="1" workspace="" request="" session="2800365259756461"
0.00: Language derived from: FLOW_PRIMARY_LANGUAGE, current browser language: en-us
056 0.00: alter session set nls_language="AMERICAN"
057 0.00: alter session set nls_territory="AMERICA"
058 0.00: NLS: CSV charset=WE8MSWIN1252
059 0.00: ...NLS: Set Decimal separator="."
060 0.00: ...NLS: Set NLS Group separator=","
061 0.00: ...NLS: Set date format="DD-MON-RR"
062 0.01: ...Setting session time_zone to -05:00
063 0.01: NLS: Language=en-us
064 0.01: Application 202, Authentication: CUSTOM2, Page Template: 2204612885682472
065 0.01: ...Determine if user "FORD10" workspace "80447903191151509" can develop application "202" in workspace "80447903191151509"
066 0.01: ...ok to reuse builder session for user:APEX_PUBLIC_USER
067 0.01: ...Application session: 2800365259756461, user=APEX_PUBLIC_USER
068 0.01: ...Determine if user "FORD10" workspace "80447903191151509" can develop application "202" in workspace "80447903191151509"
069 0.01: Session: Fetch session header information
070 0.01: ...Metadata: Fetch page attributes for application 202, page 1
071 0.01: Fetch session state from database
072 0.01: Branch point: BEFORE_HEADER
073 0.01: Fetch application meta data
074 0.02: Computation point: BEFORE_HEADER
075 0.02: ...Evaluate condition "FUNCTION_BODY" for computation of item: P1_Y
076 0.02: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER CALCUL P1_Y CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
077 0.02: ...Perform computation of item: P1_Y, type=FUNCTION_BODY
078 0.02: ...Performing function body computation
079 0.02: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
080 0.02: ...Session State: Saved Item "P1_Y" New Value="RENDER CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE"
081 0.02: Processing point: BEFORE_HEADER
082 0.02: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER PROC Beta CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
083 0.02: ...Process "Beta": PLSQL (BEFORE_HEADER) wwv_flow.debug('> RENDER PROC Beta SOURCE');
084 0.02: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER PROC Beta SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
085 0.02: Show page template header
086 0.03: Computation point: AFTER_HEADER
087 0.03: Processing point: AFTER_HEADER
088 0.03: Computation point: BEFORE_BOX_BODY
089 0.03: Processing point: BEFORE_BOX_BODY
090 0.03: Region: Alpha
091 0.03: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER REGION Alpha CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
Alpha
092 0.03: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER BUTTON Go CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
093 0.03: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER BUTTON Go invalid CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
094 0.03: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER BUTTON Reset CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
Go Go invalid Reset cache
095 0.03: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER ITEM P1_X CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
096 0.03: > P1_X=""
097 0.03: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER ITEM P1_X READ_ONLY CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
098 0.03: Item: P1_X TEXT
099 0.03: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER ITEM P1_X SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
100 0.03: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER ITEM P1_X DEFAULT{color}{color:#999999}
X RENDER ITEM P1_X DEFAULT POST-CALCUL
101 0.03: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER ITEM P1_Y CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
102 0.03: > P1_Y="RENDER CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE"
103 0.04: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER ITEM P1_Y READ-ONLY CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
104 0.04: Item: P1_Y TEXT
Y RENDER CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE POST_CALCUL
105 0.04: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER REGION Alpha SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
106 0.04: Computation point: AFTER_BOX_BODY
107 0.04: Processing point: AFTER_BOX_BODY
108 0.04: Computation point: BEFORE_FOOTER
109 0.04: Processing point: BEFORE_FOOTER
110 0.04: Show page tempate footer
111 0.04: Computation point: AFTER_FOOTER
112 0.04: Processing point: AFTER_FOOTER
113 0.04: Log Activity:
114 0.04: Execute Count=0
115 0.04: End Show:{color}
Here is the debug output when we click on "Go invlid". (a line number was added for easy refence)
{color:#999999}201 0.14: A C C E P T: Request="GOERRNULL"
202 0.19: Metadata: Fetch application definition and shortcuts
203 0.19: NLS: wwv_flow.g_flow_language_derived_from=FLOW_PRIMARY_LANGUAGE: wwv_flow.g_browser_language=en-us
204 0.19: alter session set nls_language="AMERICAN"
205 0.19: alter session set nls_territory="AMERICA"
206 0.19: NLS: CSV charset=WE8MSWIN1252
207 0.19: ...NLS: Set Decimal separator="."
208 0.20: ...NLS: Set NLS Group separator=","
209 0.20: ...NLS: Set date format="DD-MON-RR"
210 0.20: ...Setting session time_zone to -05:00
211 0.24: ...Determine if user "FORD10" workspace "80447903191151509" can develop application "202" in workspace "80447903191151509"
212 0.24: Session: OK to reuse builder session for user:APEX_PUBLIC_USER
213 0.24: Fetch session state from database
214 0.29: ...Check session 2800365259756461 owner
215 0.29: ...Metadata: Fetch Page, Computation, Process, and Branch
216 0.29: Session: Fetch session header information
217 0.29: ...Metadata: Fetch page attributes for application 202, page 1
218 0.30: ...Validate item page affinity.
219 0.30: ...Validate hidden_protected items.
220 0.30: ...Check authorization security schemes
221 0.30: Session State: Save form items and p_arg_values
222 0.31: ...Session State: Saved Item "P1_X" New Value="RENDER ITEM P1_X DEFAULT POST-CALCUL"
223 0.31: ...Session State: Saved Item "P1_Y" New Value="RENDER CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE POST_CALCUL"
224 0.31: Processing point: ON_SUBMIT_BEFORE_COMPUTATION
225 0.32: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC PROC Gamma CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
226 0.32: ...Process "Gamma": PLSQL (ON_SUBMIT_BEFORE_COMPUTATION) wwv_flow.debug('> PROC PROC Gamma SOURCE');
227 0.32: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC PROC Gamma SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
228 0.33: Branch point: BEFORE_COMPUTATION
229 0.33: Computation point: AFTER_SUBMIT
230 0.33: ...Evaluate condition "FUNCTION_BODY" for computation of item: P1_Y
231 0.34: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC CALCUL P1_Y CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
232 0.34: ...Perform computation of item: P1_Y, type=FUNCTION_BODY
233 0.34: ...Performing function body computation
234 0.34: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
235 0.34: ...Session State: Saved Item "P1_Y" New Value="PROC CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE"
236 0.34: ...Evaluate condition "FUNCTION_BODY" for computation of item: P1_X
237 0.34: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC CALCUL P1_X CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
238 0.34: ...Perform computation of item: P1_X, type=FUNCTION_BODY
239 0.34: ...Performing function body computation
240 0.35: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC CALCUL P1_X SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
241 0.35: ...Session State: Saved Item "P1_X" New Value=""
242 0.35: Tabs: Perform Branching for Tab Requests
243 0.35: Branch point: BEFORE_VALIDATION
244 0.35: Perform validations:
245 0.75: {color:#ff9900}> PROC VALIDATION Delta CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
246 0.76: ...PL/SQL "function body returning boolean" Validation: wwv_flow.debug('> PROC VALIDATION Delta SOURCE'); RETURN FALSE;
247 0.78: {color}{color:#ff9900}> PROC VALIDATION Delta SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
248 0.78: ...{color}{color:#ff0000}Validation did NOT pass{color}{color:#999999}
249 0.78: ...{color}{color:#ff0000}Inline validation error count = 1{color}{color:#999999}
250 0.86: Show current page with inline validations
251 0.87:
252 0.87: S H O W: application="202" page="1" workspace="" request="" session="2800365259756461"
253 0.87: NLS: Language=en-us
254 0.87: Application 202, Authentication: CUSTOM2, Page Template: 2204612885682472
255 0.88: ...Determine if user "FORD10" workspace "80447903191151509" can develop application "202" in workspace "80447903191151509"
256 0.88: ...ok to reuse builder session for user:APEX_PUBLIC_USER
257 0.88: ...Application session: 2800365259756461, user=APEX_PUBLIC_USER
258 0.88: ...Determine if user "FORD10" workspace "80447903191151509" can develop application "202" in workspace "80447903191151509"
259 0.88: ...Metadata: Fetch page attributes for application 202, page 1
260 0.88: Branch point: BEFORE_HEADER
261 0.88: Fetch application meta data
262 0.88: Computation point: BEFORE_HEADER
263 0.88: ...Evaluate condition "FUNCTION_BODY" for computation of item: P1_Y
264 0.92: {color}{color:#99cc00}> RENDER CALCUL P1_Y CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
265 0.92: Processing point: BEFORE_HEADER
266 0.92: ......Do not perform process because inline validation condition found.
267 0.92: ...Do not run process "Beta", process point=BEFORE_HEADER, condition type=FUNCTION_BODY, when button pressed=
268 0.92: ...Recompute field lables for fields in error.
269 0.97: Show page template header
270 1.20: Computation point: AFTER_HEADER
271 1.20: Processing point: AFTER_HEADER
1 error has occurred
* Error msg
272 1.20: Computation point: BEFORE_BOX_BODY
273 1.20: Processing point: BEFORE_BOX_BODY
274 1.21: Region: Alpha
275 1.23: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER REGION Alpha CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
Alpha
276 1.25: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER BUTTON Go CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
277 1.25: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER BUTTON Go invalid CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
278 1.28: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER BUTTON Reset CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
Go Go invalid Reset cache
279 1.30: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER ITEM P1_X CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
280 1.30: > P1_X=""
281 1.30: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER ITEM P1_X READ_ONLY CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
282 1.30: Item: P1_X TEXT
X POST-CALCUL
Error msg
283 1.30: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER ITEM P1_Y CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
284 1.30: > P1_Y="PROC CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE"
285 1.31: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER ITEM P1_Y READ-ONLY CONDITION{color}{color:#999999}
286 1.31: Item: P1_Y TEXT
Y PROC CALCUL P1_Y SOURCE POST_CALCUL
287 1.32: {color}{color:#ff9900}> RENDER REGION Alpha SOURCE{color}{color:#999999}
288 1.32: Computation point: AFTER_BOX_BODY
289 1.32: Processing point: AFTER_BOX_BODY
290 1.32: Computation point: BEFORE_FOOTER
291 1.32: Processing point: BEFORE_FOOTER
292 1.32: Show page tempate footer
293 1.32: Computation point: AFTER_FOOTER
294 1.32: Processing point: AFTER_FOOTER
295 1.32: Log Activity:
296 1.32: Execute Count=0
297 1.32: End Show:{color}
Looking at those debug output, I was able to find a workaround. Look at the line 264 and compare that to the lines 076 to 080. What I did is put the computation in the condition. This way, I'm garanteed that the calculation is always done. Here is an exemple:
A Computation (in the Page Rendering part)
Item Name
- Item Name: P1_Y
- Type: PL/SQL Function body
Computation Point
- Computation Point:After Submit
Source
- Computation: RETURN :P1_Y; -- Never executed. Look in the condition for computation
Conditional Computations
- Condition Type: PL/SQL Function Body Returning a Boolean
- Expression 1: :P1_Y := COMPUTE(); RETURN FALSE;
This works but totally break the semantics created in APEX.
Suggestion:
In the Page rendering phase, when a validation fails, the source compution found in a Item (in that case the value is taken from the session state), in a Computation or in Process is never executed.
This should revised.
Their should be a way for the programmer to choose what behavior the rendering phase will have when a validation fails other than using a workaround that might break in futur versions of APEX.
Edited by: user4591233 on Nov 19, 2008 6:32 AM
Edited by: user4591233 on Nov 19, 2008 6:34 AM

Dominique,
Thank you for the detailed problem description. Although you posted it some ten hours ago I have just now finished reading it.
Form pages must be built so they can operate correctly when inline validation errors are displayed. The assumption (by the engine) is that session state (and package state) as it exists at the point the validations are performed is sufficient (and correct) to support the redisplay of the page without the need to fire on-load processes or computations. Session state or package state changes made by after-submit computations or after-submit/before computations/validations processes that prevent correct page behavior on the "validation redisplay" must be avoided.
The condition types Inline Validation Errors Displayed/No Inline Validation Errors Displayed can be used for on-load events/controls (processes, computations, regions, items, ...) for which you need finer control over this behavior.
Also, you can forgo the use of after-submit computations when the resulting alteration of session state would be inimical to proper "validation redisplay" behavior and use On Submit - After Computations and Validations processes instead.
I hope I have understood your situation and that this answer adequately answers your questions.
Scott

Color workflow validation

Similar Messages

Maybe you are looking for